Olaf the Holy's page

There's a space in that link.

Linkified.

Really well done guide, actually. I'm a little surprised I hadn't heard of it before now.

OK, the entire idea of an 25pt buy 18th level mini campaign with custom this and that is a BAD IDEA from the start. The 3 "protest" anti-paladins are a HUGE red flag that people are not starting in good faith. Bringing a core monk or rogue would probably be more then this GM (and honestly most gm's) can handle.

I hate to tell you this but:
18th level wizard - cheese
conjuration school - cheese
leadership - cheese
intelligent item psychic cohort - cheese
create demiplane - cheese
clone - cheese
solar angel - cheese
Spell Perfection - cheese
greater planar binding - cheese
greater planar ally - cheese
There are probably some other things as well...

Yeah, your GM let you have all the tools to break his game, but it was your choice to actually break it... Honestly, that character is the Pathfinder version of PunPun, and should never be brought into an actual game.

I would recommend just skipping this campaign. If you really, really want to take part, make an actual "character" not just a collection of the most broken crap in the game.

That's not entirely fair.

That said, there's a time and a place , and OP's campaign obviously wasn't it.

Back on topic, PFS houserules apply to PFS games, end of story. If people want to adapt those houserules for their own game, (because they believe that those houserules were what the authors meant to write in the first place but failed, or for whatever other reason) they're obviously free to do that.
However, seeing as this build is entirely illegal in PFS anyway, PFS houserules can safely be considered utterly irrelevant to this whole discussion.
And trying to convince people that they should automatically assume that PFS houserules apply to their home games is... why would you even do that? The only thing you can really accurately claim is that he should ask his DM.

Base saving throws having to be derived from a single class is not how the rules work. Prerequisites are for characters, not class levels. These are the rules, and have always been the rules. Imagine how absurd it would be if someone tried to convince you that you couldn't take improved critical on a fighter 5/barbarian 6 character.

Ridiculon wrote:

fair enough, what is the fastest way to get a +6 base fort save?

+6 BASE fort save from only one class. 8 levels in a good Fort class is your only option. (Or like, Hulk archetype Vigilante)

That's for PFS specifically. In most games, you can just be a Fighter 1/Brawler 1/Barbarian 1 and have done with it.

I wrote this up on reddit at someone's request. It is what it says on the tin. I've listed the medium damage values, even when derived from a small race, for comparison purposes.

It is very probably incomplete - I don't delude myself that I know everything there is to be known, and besides, the search function on d20pfsrd isn't all that reliable. I wouldn't mind being pointed in the direction of other sources, although I'm more interested in things outside of wildshape and synthesism.

There's been no consideration made for PFS in this, and so a whole bunch of it is probably illegal.

Now, onto the list.
Racial
-Changeling - Claws 1d4, ?primary?.
-Kitsune - Bite 1d4, ?primary?. Functions in natural form only.
-Lizardfolk - Bite 1d3, Primary.
-Lizardfolk - Claws 1d4, Primary.
-Tengu - Bite 1d3, ?primary?.

Alternative Racial Traits
-Catfolk(Cat's claws) - Claws 1d4, primary. Replaces natural hunter.
-Goblin(Hard head, big teeth) - Bite 1d6, primary. Replaces skilled.
-Half-Orc(Toothy) - Bite 1d4, primary. Replaces Orc ferocity.
-Kobold(Dragonmaw) - Bite 1d4, primary. +1d6 elemental damage 1/d, replaces armor.
-Tengu(Claw attacks) - Claws 1d3, primary. Also counts as having Improved Unarmed Strike for prerequisites.
-Tiefling(Maw or Claw) - Claws 1d4 or bite 1d6, primary.

Feats
-Aspect of the Beast - Claws 1d3, Primary. Requires Wild Shape, Lycanthropy, or Natural Weapons combat style.
-Metallic Wings - Wings 1d3 Secondary. Aasimar Feat, requires 3 other feats and ECL 11.
-Razortusk - Bite 1d4, secondary. Half-orc feat, primary if used stand-alone.
-Sharpclaw - Claws 1d6, primary. Ratfolk feat.
-Sharptooth - Bite 1d4, primary. Ratfolk feat.
-Tail Terror - Tail slap 1d4, secondary. Kobold feat.

Traits
-Mother's Teeth - Bite 1d2, secondary, Lamashtu religion trait.
-Tusked - Bite 1d4 (If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5), Orc & Half-orc racial trait.

Class Features
-Alchemist Discovery(Tentacle) - Tentacle 1d4, may or may not be used as part of a full attack depending on interpretation.
-Feral Gnasher Goblin Barbarian 1(Savage Bite) - Bite 1d6, Primary.
-Oracle Curse(Wolfscarred) - Bite 1d4, ?Primary? (Damage increases over time, gives 20% verbal component failure)
-White Haired Witch 1(White Hair) - Hair 1d4, primary. (Damage is int-based in lieu of strength.)
-Witch Hex(Nails) - Nails 1d3, Secondary.

Gear
-Cloak of the Manta Rey - Tail Spine/?Slap? 1d6, ?primary?, 7200gp, May or may not require you to be underwater depending on interpretation.
-Demon Armor - Claws 1d10, ?primary?, 52260gp. (Holy s*~$snacks. A little vaguely worded, so check with your DM. 'a normal melee attack' might mean that you need to take a standard action with one claw to make the Contagion dc 14 happen. Who knows.)
-Demon Talon - 1 claw 1d6, ?primary?, 20000gp. (Slotless, you'll need two to have two claw attacks.)
-Dread Wing armor enhancement - Wings 1d6, Secondary, +5 bonus value. (cuts your Armor bonus to AC in half while deployed, can only be applied to hellknight or full plate armor.)
-Grasp of Droskar - 1 gauntlet 1d3, secondary, 12300gp. (An interesting alternative to the Necrograft arm, if you thought that one was worth bothering with. It is indeed considered a secondary natural attack, even though it's an adamantite +1 gauntlet.)
-Helm of the Mammoth Lord - Gore 1d6, ?Primary?, 8500gp. Probably combines with a full attack.
-Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail - sting 1d4, ?primary?, 18505gp. (Slotless, damage size is based on the scorpion it is derived from, not the wielder. Comes with +1 enhancement bonus, and can cast Poison DC 15 on target hit 3/d)
-Necrograft Arm - 1 Slam 1d4, seconday, 12000gp. (Slotless, you'll need two. Carry necrograft penalties. Considered primary if attacking without other attacks)
-Pelt of the Beast - Bite 1d6, ?primary?, 15600gp.
-Ratfolk Tailblade - Manifactured 1d3, secondary, 11gp. 'can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade'. That's deliciously vague enough that your Amulet of Mighty fists should probably apply here.
-Ring of Rat Fangs - Bite 1d4, primary, 5000gp.
-Talons of Leng - Claws 1d4, primary, 67000gp. (+3 enhancement bonus included, crits cause dc 20 willpower vs. permanent Insanity)
-Wyvern's Cloak - Sting 1d6, ?primary?, 78600gp. (Also casts Poison dc 16 on hit.)

Right. That's interesting, of course, but not half as interesting as is figuring out what to do with it all. Is it useful, or just a waste of time?

Having multiple attacks lends itself well to classes and characters with large damage bonuses. I think it would, for example, be an interesting alternative to the classic TWF rogue.

Catfolk Wizard (Conjuration: Teleportation school) 1/U-Rogue 8 with a +1 Amulet of Mighty Fists, a Ring of Rat Fangs and a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, compares okay to a standard Halfling U-Rogue 8/wizard(teleporation) 1 with two +1 vicious shortswords, for example.

The weapon-user will have three open item slots, but its attack routine is -1/-1/-6/-6, relative to the catfolk's +0/+0/+0/+0. They've both spent roughly the same amount of gold on it, too, with the shortsword costing 16620gp, and the gear for the natural attacker coming in at 175000.

Aside from rogues, I believe that paladins especially could benefit from picking up a few natural attacks. They'll be secondary, because paladins usually wield weapons, but even at -5, that's one to three extra chances to land your smite damage in a full attack.

Actually, if arcane magic itself is failing, you could still have all the magic books around, but they just don't do anything.

As for an explanation, I'm personally in favor of having the reasons for it all being a mystery to be discovered in game.

Elementals are outsoders, sadly.

'Humanoid' is referring to the creature type, not the concept of humanoid shape.

Full attack as a standard action is an incredibly bad idea, because it'll get your midline-characters (divine casters, archers, rogues) completely obliterated when they get caught out by a move+attack. Don't do that.

Anyway. Before I throw suggestions out there, I'd like to hear about your problems with the Barbarian and Fighter specifically. What are they bad at in game, in your experience?

Monk fix
Problems, as I understand them:
-Survivability, specifically low-level AC, but also hp, mostly as consequence of spread-out stats, low constitution.
-Schizophreniac abilities. Fast Movement wants the monk to dart around the battlefield, Flurry of Blows wants the monk to stand still and make full attacks.
-MADness. Ridiculous reliance on all of Str, Dex, Con, Wis. Even not that good a class if you have all four at high values.

Proposed solutions, 3 points:
-Give monks a +2 AC bump on top of everything they already get at level 1. That should put them on par with rangers, allowing them to focus more on strength for damage and accuracy, or wisdom for ki abilities.
-Raise HD to D10. This helps with MAD, allowing them to focus more on strength for accuracy, or wisdom for ki abilities.
-New Ability: Flying Kick.

At third level, the monk gains the ability to make a flying kick once per round before making an attack as part of a flurry of blows. Before the attack, the monk can move a distance equal to his fast movement bonus. This movement is made as part of the monk's flurry of blows attack and does not require an additional action. At the end of this movement, the monk must make an attack against an adjacent foe, continuing his flurry of blows. This ability need not be used at the beginning of the flurry, but can be used after the monk has already made some of the attacks. Despite the name, a flying kick can be performed with any special monk weapon, not merely unarmed strikes. Unlike when taking conventional move actions, a monk can take a five-foot step in the same round he makes a flying kick.

There we go. The Monk is now a highly mobile striker. Low-level damage isn't a problem for monks, but low level AC is.

Yes, that's totally allowed.

It's best to avoid making a recruitment thread, though - other people on the boards can find that annoying, since you're not actually recruiting at all. Just do character creation in the discussion thread.

Was that a haiku? I feel like that might've been a haiku.

Ivey Edict wrote:

Repost under Ivey :)

She is essentially complete, in a bit I'm going to double check her skills bonus etc. and make sure I converted Baron from Wolf to Owl properly.

Her AC is purposely missing her shield bonus, as she'd most likely prefer to use a bow, but it depends on if ol' Baron wins the initiative round or if she will have to rely on Summon Nature's Ally 1 xD

The only Roof Runner archetype I've ever heard of is a type of Rogue. Where is the Hunter version from?

It's from ultimate intrigue.

Mount Trump. Or Drumpf.

Sorry, I had to.

The Hillery! (because, you know, it's like a little hill of garbage? Sounds like something a goblin would call a hill too.)

Hmm. On further consideration, the template was probably intended to only be used for low-level NPCs.

The 'Skelton of HD +1' metric mostly works out at those levels, I guess. And it's better than CR +1, because the 2 RHD means that if you add it to a Warrior 1, it becomes an unholy terror totally unfit to be considered a CR ½ monster.

They probably had it at CR +1 originally, considered what would happen if it was added to an NPC with just 1 class level, and changed to the skeleton metric of CR, while failing to consider people using the template on NPCs with lots of class levels.

It occurs to me that the variant multiclass rules could be a cool way to give well-known monsters surprising new tricks, without all the hassle involved in giving them actual class levels, or even the somewhat lesser hassle that comes with adding Simple Class Templates.

Changing out feats is easy to do on the fly though - we do it all the time when we GM.

Can any of you think of interesting combinations to spruce up old monsters? This is mostly a mid-to-high level tool, of course.

I'll start:

Succubus devotee of Lamashtu, Cleric VMC.

New Feats
1 - Agile Maneuvers
3 - Decoy of the Trickery domain 5/d
5 - Iron Will
7 - Channel Negative Energy 1d6 (Madness variant channeling) 8/d, DC 19
Dropping Combat Reflexes & Weapon Finesse

It's not a big change, but enough to catch a well-read PC a little off guard, I think.

Storm Giant Paladin

New Feats
1 - Power Attack (And Code, Aura of Good)
3 - Detect Evil
5 - Awesome Blow
7 - Lay on Hands 9/d, 7d6
9 - Iron Will
11 - Smite Evil 1/d, +2/+15
13 - Combat Reflexes
15 - Mercy(Shaken)
17 - Improved Crical(Greatsword)
19 - Divine Weapon Bond +4, 3/d
Dropping Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike.

I mean, is that cool or what?

One thing I like to do is move CMD up with the AC, and put in CMB as a form of attack.

I'm not sure about this, but I think Elemental Flux from Path of War: Expanded might be worth looking at. However I can't actually recall something that replaces the base damage of the weapon.

The conceptual and mechanical problem is that if a blade becomes made of fire, it no longer has mass so things like Strength bonuses would no longer be applied to the damage roll.

Black blade magi can change the enitre damage to elemental. Like I said, it gets expensive in arcana fast, but they can do it.

Okay, so given that you have close friends in the group, tell them whats up, then see what they say, and if no paths open up, leave it.

Roll20 is pretty low commitment anyway.