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TiwazBlackhand wrote:


Pretty sure the point of this thread wasn't "Tell me how to make this character using every hack in 4000+ books" but "Gee I think this would be a neat idea for a Base Class"

Well, getting a new class is very cool, but highly unlikely. So, I, for example, would be very happy, if someone showed me the book, that I missed, which allows me to build my dream build.


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Some kind of eingeneer, with a lot of helpful devices and weapons for every situation, building and upgrading constructs to protect him/ride them. Maybe a build, where all his wealth and power goes into creating and gearing some kind of a "tank", that he is riding around. Gnome on a giant mecanical spider with razor-sharp claws and heavy repeating crossbow, mounted on it...
There are a couple of alchemyst archetypes, that are capable of some of those things, but they are fairly weak and boring.


Interesting question - why don't feats have groups, similar to weapons? Because when you have the feat, that works with, say, axes, it works with all of them, no matter how they are named. Be it the Axe, the Great Axe, or some Headchopper, that still counts as an axe.
And for the feats we can have Cleave, then in the feat tree comes Great Cleave, which is clearly an improvement, built upon the first feat (like Improved->Greater feats, for example), and it stops working like Cleave for any Cleave-related feats, because it has +1 word in the name.


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Phoebus Alexandros wrote:


I get that what you get for those five feats might be underwhelming, but I think it’d be equally fair to argue that most of the Combat Feat trees are underwhelming.

Maybe that's because they are already made situational and rulings like this are making them nigh unusable?

It is almost impossible for anyone except fighter to make room for some of them in their build, so, in return, we often have an utterly boring combat - fest of full-attacks, buffs and saving throws.
What is it good for? Restrictive ruling for expensive feats gives you nothing, except cutting build ideas. Why not read ambigous rulings in favor of the user (be it PC or NPC)?


I could swear, that I saw somewhere in the rules, that you can make a heal check to find out, how much hp someone currently has, and maybe other details of their health (diseases, poisoning, etc).
But now I can't find anything related to it.

So, if DM says "You see an unconsious wounded man", which check and with which DC should the party take and which action should it be, if they want to know more about his state? How quickly can somebody understand mid-combat how soon will die a friendly NPC that is bleeding out?

I understand, that DM always can rule something on the spot, but prefer to have some RAW, to now the base, from which it should start.


If you want to be able to attack your opponents without reach, Escape route feat, shared with your mount, will help you to avoid AoOs while moving into the opponent's square.
Either play Hunter, or get the Horsemaster's saddle.


Carbon D. Metric wrote:
Aside from that once you hit level 3 crafting poisons only takes half the time it normally would This also stacks with the Master Alchemist feat (You can gain access to this at level 6) that allows you to create a number of poisons equal to your Int mod as well as speeding up the process of making any alchemical item (Not just poisons) by a factor of 10.

Why does Master Alchemist becomes avaliable at lvl 6? It requires 5 ranks in Alchemy, which means, that it is possible to pick up as a lvl 5 feat, isn't it?


avr wrote:
Both are the unnamed 'ability bonus' type and do not stack, per FAQ.

Are you sure about that? Because Monk's ability allows to add CHA modifier on top of the usual AC (including DEX bonus). And Oracle's ability replaces the DEX bonus in the basic AC.

Sounds like two different parts of AC (like Armor class and Natural armor both can have enchantment bonus).


Let's suppose you are riding a very fast mount. Naturally fast creature, like a cat, or buffed with something like Cheetah's sprint. The speed of the mount allows it to make very long and very high jumps, because it gains enormous Acrobatics bonuses on running jump checks.
The problem is, that you will not be able to stay on it's back. As the Ride skills says, when you make the mount jump, you either make an Acrobatics check for the mount, or the Ride check yourself, whichever is lower, the DC is equal to the jump DC.
A usual +5 bonus from the saddle isn't gonna help. Is there any special equipment to work with this, and if you would design something yourself, how would you balance it?
I thought about some kind of saddle, that takes about a minute to strap in, but allows you to autopass all checks to stay mounted. Of course, it prohibits you from dismounting (maybe, a full-round action to unstrap) and creates a danger of mount falling on top of you, if it is falling prone.

What do you think?

P.S. This should also be usable for riding something like a giant spider, crawling on the seiling. Or staying on the flying mount without appropriate Ride skill.


bbangerter wrote:


Note, that while still prone, you could continue your movement action to crawl 5'. But as soon as you want to start doing something else that isn't movement, your move action is over, and your standard action starts.

Wait, so, if I start moving and get tripped, I don't lose my move action immidiately? What about other actions, interrupted by AoOs? Can I continue attacks (or doing something else) from prone position?


I thought the same way, but the party objected - they said, that if you try to move in the round, you lose your right to take 5 ft. step, because it becomes "unrealistic" - you already started another movement and failed.
DM said, that the rules are unclear: "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement" - doesn't say, if the movement you performing must succeed, or not. So, he went with the majority of the party, and said, that he will allow the step only after succesfull Acrobatic check (DC 10). I failed it and left where I were.
The more I'm reading the rules, the more I start to think, that I'm right in RAW, but have different understanding of RAI with other party members.


So, imagine this:
A charecter fights the Yeth Hound. He tries to move away from it, provoking an AoO. AoO hits and the hound trips him -> he falls prone instead of stepping away. He uses his standart action to stand up.
The question - can he now take a 5 ft. step? The rules say "You can't take a 5 ft. step if you moved any distance this round". He didn't move, but he tried. Does it count?

P.S. If you wonder, why didn't he start with 5 ft. step - he needed to provoke that AoO.


Smallfoot wrote:


What's the party make-up? What classes, character level, equipment? How tough do you want the encounter to be? You may want to look at the standard gargoyle variants to see what kind of options are already there. For example, Kapoacinth Hunter is usually a Fighter2. A level of Fighter on top of the Rogue levels wouldn't be unreasonable. But you'll probably want him to have some allies to make the fight challenging.

The party are three level 4s, half-elf Dex Fighter, human Bloodrager and ratfolk Alchemist. Nothning special in equipment, a few +1 weapons and armor, cloaks for save throws and potions.

Also the ship has a few NPC cremembers, but almost all of them lack the magic weapons to pierce gargoyle's DR.
I was thinking about two possible routes:
1) Kapoacinth just picks a new class level, gathers some allies and goes for revenge.
2) He makes a pact with some dark entity, which helps him survive and grants him some powers to fuel his anger and wreck havoc upon the ones who did him wrong.
The second part works well with the templates above, but they look quite strong. I think, I'll have to wait for PC to gain a couple of levels, otherwise even the wrathful template (CR+1) may massacre them.


So, my party has just started the River into Darkness.
They have encountered two capoacinth rogues (lvl 2), which attacked them on the river during the storm. They knocked down the male one and threw him overboard, then slew his girlfriend and threw the corpse into the river too.
So, I decided to have the male gargoile survived. He retrieved the corpse and decided to avenge her death, following the party up the river.
This is going to be an encounter a few weeks later and I want to ramp up his toughness and add some drama. Maybe, take some levels in the new class and give him powerful gear or effects.
I have sketched a few ideas, but would be glad to hear some advice from more experienced GMs!


Well, as the rules say, touch attack denies the opponent his armor bonuses, flat footed opponent loses his Dex and Dodge bonuses. So, everything left (if any) + 10.


Ferious Thune wrote:
The closet I think you’re going to come is that you can start a full round action when you only have a standard. It then finishes on your next turn. However, it takes your standard action from your next turn as well (2 standard actions total), which effectively defeats what you are trying to do, since you wouldn’t be able to attack the round it finishes. I’m not seeing anything other than quickening the spell that would let you use it on the round that it is cast.

Ok, one last dumb question. It says "once per round, you can make a melee touch attack against a target within 15 feet". I assume, this can be an Attack of Opportunity as well? So, what is the threat range of the Lash? Is it 15 feet? 5 feet? Or it doesn't have a threat range at all and I need to hold a weapon in another hand to threaten anything and make AoOs?


Ferious Thune wrote:
A full round cast and a 1 round cast are two different things. Spells that are a full round action still take effect on the round they are cast. Spells that are a 1 round action are the ones that take effect just before your next turn, but they can also be disrupted up until then. A spontaneous caster using meta magic is casting as a full round action, not a 1 round action. So it doesn’t get you any extra duration (other than what extend would normally give you).

Thank you for this information. It isn't present in my rulebook, but I found it in the wiki.

What about another approach to this then: I've read somewhere here (can't find the rules for it now), that you can delay finishing your spell, like delayed action. So, can I delay the last words of my spell until the start of my next turn? Of course, bearing the risk of losing the concentration while doing so.


blahpers wrote:


2) a) Pretty much, unless you have a way to use the lash during the same round you cast it, such as Quicken Spell. (Cf. almost every other spell that grants you a once-per-round ability.)

Interesting, so, actually, I can use any metamagic to get extra round of use, because it will make casting this a full round action and full-round spells go off at the start of the next round. I think, I'm getting myself a lesser rod of extend spell!


I'm bulding my gnome hunter and ran into a few unclear parts in the rules:

1) Hunter favored class bonus for gnomes. It has some weird phrasing: "Add DR 1/magic to the hunter’s animal companion. Each time the hunter gains another level, the DR increases by ½ (maximum DR 10/magic). ".
What does it actually mean?
a) When you take it on for the first time, it grants DR 1, when you take it again later - +1/2 to DR each time you take it. Seems legit, but the wording is too different from bonuses for other races, that work this way.
b) Once you take it once, it grows as you level up, without investing favored class points in it. Seems strong.
c) Each time you take it, it grants DR 1+1/2 hunter lvl. Seems insanely strong and probably wrong.

2) Lightning lash spell. Looks like fun - my hunter is small, so traditional weapons are not so strong on him. But a few mechanics of the spell are unclear.

Lightning lash

a) Duration. Do I effectively lose 1 round of duration each time, because I cast it as a standart action and can't attack at the same round?
b) Is it considered a whip for the rules? Description says "flashes in your hands like a whip", but the description of "Whip of spiders" states similar moment in a more strict way, for example ("You can wield this object as if it were an actual whip, except you make a melee touch attack with it").
So, is it finessable, or do I add only my Str bonus to it's touch attack? Does it provoke an AoO? Does it have a threat range? Does it work with the whip feats?


What do you think about Vicious Stomp on the AC? As I understand, natural attacks are treated as an unarmed strike with lethal damage, so he should get another AoO when the enemy falls and it will also grant me another AoO through Paired Opportunists.

Also, a little question about the numbers in the rules. Our Core Rule Book says, that spells like Bull's Strength grant +6 to certain ability score. However, d20pfsrd says, that they grant +4. I assume, there were some kind of patch since the translation of our book. Where can I read about it?


LordKailas wrote:
I am curious what method you're planning on using to increase it's int to 3.

Animal companion gets to increase one of its ability scores a few times, if I read this article correctly: Animal Companion

LordKailas wrote:
That being said, even with an int of 3 you still have to rely on tricks to get your AC to do what you want.

How many tricks does AC get with Int 3? Because "Handle animal" skill stops descripton at Int 2 (6 tricks) and considers creature with higher Int intelligent enough to understand speech. It's important for me, because I want to use Skirmisher tricks, to which Hunter gets access, and I need to know, how many of them I can choose.

The main problem with Snapping Flank I would call a +9 BAB requirement. Hunter will get there very late.
Broken Wing Gambit is a really cool one, I think I'll take it on later levels, for opponents that I won't be able to trip.

As for the raptor feats, the charge ones are a good option, thank you. But I couldn't take Power Attack first, because lvl 1 Velociraptor has only 11 Str. I'll get back to it later. I started with Light Armour Proficiency and think about some more defensive feats also.


Well, thats a really cool idea for another character, but now I'll have to stick with Hunter. The problem is, we play in Russia and we have on hands only Core Book translated. I've pulled the Hunter class from the wiki, as well as some feats, but I don't think, that my GM will approve so much material from other books in our first game. We need to get more familiar with the basic concept first.
So I try to avoid class archetypes, AC archetypes, traits and lots of other detalizations.


Greetings, guys.

Me and my friends have just started our first Pathfinder campaign. I've decided to build a small, dinosaur mounted warrior with some nature magic abilities.
So I chose the Gnome race and the Hunter class. Took Velociraptor as my AC, he will become mountable at level 7. I plan to give him Int 3, so we wouldn't have to worry about tricks and training much.

The plan is to use Dex-based build, utilizing Weapon Finesse, to avoid Str penalty of the small race. We play with 15-point buy, so the final stats are (race mods included):

Str 10
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 10
Wiz 16
Cha 9

General playing strategy is to utilise shared teamwork feats to boost hit chance and damage. Planned feats:
Lvl
1 Weapon Finesse
2 Outflank (hunter bonus)
3 Dirty Fighting, Pack Flanking (hunter bonus)
4 -
5 Improved Trip
6 Paired Opportunists (hunter bonus)
7 Precise Strike or Combat Reflexes (I don't know yet, what will I need more, additional damage or more AoOs to utilize Outflank)
8 -
9 Greater Trip and some bonus Teamwork feat
...
Finesse allows to use Dex modifier on trip attempts, so we end up with + 9(+Dex+BAB) on trip attempts after charge (+4 Outflank, +4 Trip feats, +2 charge, -1 size). And after opponent falls prone, he recieves 2 AoOs and five attacks frome the raptor's Pounce, all at +10 bonus (+4 Outflank, +4 prone, +2 charge).
I also consider using Scimitar with Dervish Dance in this build - one feat will give me a nice boost to damage and a lot more crits for Outflank's AoOs.

Now a few questions:
What are some nice additional feats to consider? Maybe another useful combat ones to work with pouncing mount, instead of tripping? Or some feats, that give me or my mount an AoO, to get another one from Paired Opportunists?

Are there useful Mounted Combat feats for such build? I don't think, that such character would be an effective lance charger. And I read, that I can't Pounce with my mount and Ride by Attack at the same time, thats why I chose tripping.

What are some useful spells for this build? I consider different buffs, and temporary Improved Spell Sharing, to buff before combat, and then swap the feat to fighting one.

Would really love to hear your opinions on this concept, as I have mostly theoretical experience and don't really know yet, how all of this stuff would work in real fight.