MrRed's page

Healing as a primary focus is not really necessary. Healing during combat is rarely better than doing damage and your after-combat needs are suitably addressed by wands, in particular cure light wounds.

Beside the options you mentioned:
Fire-themed theologian blaster cleric- you can heal and kill. Generally, there are lots of cleric themes besides healing- from frontliner to archer.
Bard- great support (in particular for melees), part-time healer, face.
Witch- lots of options there

I think your build is already solid. You want a 1 level dip into cross-blooded tatooed sorc (orce + element of choice) for a damage boost. I do not think that arcanist is necessary- I always had enough spell slots. A typical build-order with some options (stole it from some old thread in the past) might give you some ideas how everything combines:

Elf Evoker (Human is also good)
Abilities (20 point buy):
STR: 7 (-4)
DEX: 12+2 (2)
CON: 14-2 (5)
INT: 18+2 (17)
WIS: 8 (-2)
CHA: 12 (2)

Options:
Elf Race
Fleet-Footed (+2 Racial Ini, Run)
Evocation (Admixture) School
Familiar Arcane Bond
Take Elf Favored Class Bonus every level

Feats:
1. Wizard/ Evocer
Improved Initiative
-Magical Lineage: Fireball/ Fire Snake/ Chain Lightning Trait
-Seeking Haleen (Lore Seeker/ Wayang Spellhunter/ Warrior of Old)
2. Cross-Blooded Tatooed Sorceror (Orc/Draconic, take Varisian Tattoo)
3. Spell Focus (Evocation)
5. Spell Specialization
6b. Empower Spell
7. Greater Spell Focus/ Spell Penetration/ Improved Familiar
9. Craft Rod (MM Rods are pricey)/ Craft Something else
11. Greater Spell Specialization
11b. Quicken Spell
13. Persistant Spell/ Echoing Spell
15. Spell Perfection: Fireball
16b Greater Spell Focus/ (Greater) Spell Penetration/ Improved Familiar

As you said, if you combine everything for ini it can go very high very easily:
Dex +2 (or higher) Trait +2 Racial +2 Feat +4 Familiar +4 (+ Anticipate Peril) +4 (initiative on magic weapon, e.g. gauntlet. )
Watch out not to be a showkiller for everyone else as a blaster tends to end encounters quickly, i.e. warn your GM as from lvl 7+ things can become pretty powerful: If you chose Wayang Spellhunter+ Magical Lineage both on Fireball, you can cast empowered fireballs + selective (minor (!) rod) out of a 3rd level slot...

Also, you dont need to go Wizard, a fire-focused theologian cleric can become even more powerful...

Very nice work, I love it.

I played a blaster 1-15 (before the blockbuster guide, but similar). As for any wizard, the first few levels are tough. While the big thing is Spell Specialization at the low levels, I knew some of the tricks you mentioned and can imagine that all the others can be quite helpful- so this is a great collection, in particular as you go lvl by lvl. A warning: Burning hands has a short range, so be prepared for the occasional hit and dont neglect your hit points ;) Also, when playing the optimized blaster WARN your GM and your group to similarly optimize your characters and up the CR of the encounters. Otherwise a blaster wizard with high initiative ends encounters in a single action (typically fireball, chain lightning etc).

ps:
I just dont get why urea is so pricey, considering the average price for water :P

Thx. He truly has been touched by this noodle appendage

If just found an old thread where the giant octopus form is discussed
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ov72?Help-Giant-Squid-Beast-Shape

RAW:
What it boils down to is that a druid can wild shape into this form and does not gain the aquatic subtype- so he can still breathe air. As the form, however, provides swim movement, he also gains the ability to breathe water (transmutation rules for polymorph, BTW this also applies for a rat form, which allows a druid to breathe water. learned something new here.) So in order to be a flying spaghetti monster all you need is a lvl 8 druid and some way to fly. The whole seamantle/ fluid form business is not required RAW for breathing air (but provides some other benefits). Still, I might make it mandatory as it's otherwise a bit silly to have an air breathing octopuss. Now, I need to find some interesting counters, though.

I am GM of a regular group in the WotR campaign and slowly but steadily some members of my group have found some truly nasty combinations. One druid, a son of Gozreh, want to honor both storm and water by flying in the sky- as a kraken.

a) non-mythic
So here we go. He is shapeshifting into a giant octopus ( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/octopus/giant-lak e-octopus ), a huge animal (druid 8) with reach 30 and 9 natural attacks! Now, in order to breathe air he adds fluid form (from the groups wizard or an alchemists wand) which also adds another +10 reach and some minor other benefits. With some additional buffs, a truly impressive combat form.

b) mythic
A few levels later, he has gained some more mythic tiers including enduring blessing 2, which allows him to cast seamantle on himself for 24 hours, which adds, among some other stuff, +8 AC (can be prevented by freedom of movement) immunity to fire. Also, mythic combat reflexes allows him due to is extreme reach to attack almost at will.

As far as I can see, rule-wise everything is fine. Still, while not the worst my mythic group throws at me, i want to challenge my players. So- what would be such an interesting challenge(s) to this FSM? Dispelling the buffs is an (obvious) possibility but gets old after some time and kind of destroys the fun. I have thought about summoning some nice aquatic animals into his sea mantle but they are not on the summon nature ally lists (I would just love to drop a whale on him!). Are there some ways to to so?

Basically you know all there is to know: Both of them are good choices but the more typical choice is SG with magical lineage (trait), so you can later cast an intensified SG using a 1st level slot. Frostbite is also a good choice, but slightly more limited. If you quickly run out of spells, you can buy some cheap 1st level pearls of power once you have a bit of money. Also have a look at the magus guides in the FAQ- they have detailed discussion on SG vs Frostbite.

Ah, thx! I wasnt aware of that!

MrRed wrote:

Don't forget the 1st level feat Acadamai Graduate, which reduces casting time for conjuration spells. In particular summon monster X becomes a standard action.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/local-feats/acadamae-graduate-local-1
Also, you might have a look at the Abyssal bloodline 15 power added summonings- it requires a lot of eldritch heritage investment, but might be worth it if you find the feats.

Check with your GM - this is from 3.5 not Pathfinder RPG.

If 3.5 material is allowed - you have a ton of options. My first ever guide covers lots of them:

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization /threads/1131936

Is it? I thought Acadamai Grad is from Curse of the Crimson Throne- a regular adventure path (even if it's a local feat)? Or am I missing something?

Don't forget the 1st level feat Acadamai Graduate, which reduces casting time for conjuration spells. In particular summon monster X becomes a standard action.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/local-feats/acadamae-graduate-local-1

Also, you might have a look at the Abyssal bloodline 15 power added summonings- it requires a lot of eldritch heritage investment, but might be worth it if you find the feats.

Get a madness domain cleric by leadership and have him use vision of madness on you. If I see it right it adds lvl/2 as untyped bonus.

Like Dennis Dsky said: send someone in who has high HP and saves. Cure him with wand of CLW. Works like a charm with the groups paladin: typically keen on going in first anyway with int and wis as common dump stats and no ranks in sense motive. High hp, good saves and a good fighter: just replace your groups trapfinder with a paladin and you should be good to go.

MrRed wrote:

We can do better.

I can see your point, but casting a couple of 5th level arcane spells isn't really in scope for a discussion about hitting a particular STR target at level 8.

Actually, you dont even need level 8, a 5th level character can do the job as you only need 2 3rd level spells : antropomorphic animal and marionette possession. The other spells (magic jar, overland flight etc.) add convenience. Also, the great white whale is IMHO the highest strength with this trick (maybe there are some dinosaurs as well), but has some issues (feeding, size, handling). Therefore it might be more handy to become a mammoth or other high strength animal as RD also suggests:

I actually have a similar character that uses mammoths for this (unlike a whale, you can easily purchase mammoths for only 2,000gp).

There are some kinks (e.g. marionette possession requires a willing target) but these can be solved (handle animal, cast while animal sleeps etc.)

We can do better.

How to get strong as a caster even with str as a dump stat:

1) Get a great white whale (str 50) or other strong animal; please note a whale breathes air!

2) Cast antropomorhpic animal on it
Find a way to move :
2.1) Cast overland flight/ fins to feet etc.

3) Cast magic jar/ marionette possession etc.

4) add rage/ enhancement/ mutagens etc. if you still feel weak

Et voila, strength 50+ without any big problems :)

BTW: If you really want to annoy you GM... I am unsure what happens if you now cast alter self to become medium sized...

Similar to what other people have said you can play him as
-a smartass who doesnt give a damn about other "stupid" people - and lets them know he doesnt care/ knows much more/ tells his opinions all the time without being asked etc. ("Sheldon")
-ugly and irritating as a person (i.e. selfish, talks to himself all the time, doesnt pay attention to other peoples needs/ opinions, smells funny etc.) ("Ferengi" from Star Trek come to mind)
-smart but shy and socially awkward (just look around your avarage gaming group :D )

Thx for for your great response! I agree with your first 4 lines (Normal hit to Critical Hit) of your damage chart. I am not fully convinced, however, regarding the last 4 lines regarding foe-biting.

Shouldnt the first sentence "When this item deals damage, its user can use mythic power to double the total amount of damage it deals." apply? I.e. just double everything? For a normal hit, one pays one mythic point. For a crit two. The specialty is that also precision damage, flaming etc. are doubled, which is not the case on crits! ("Damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) and precision-based damage are also doubled")

So I would still read foe-biting as:
Foe-Biting: 2d10 + 2d6 + 8 + 4p, costs 1 mythic
Foe-Biting + MVS: 8d10 + 2d6 + 32 + 4p costs 1 mythic
Foe-Biting + Crit: 4d10 + 2d6 + 16 + 4p costs 2 mythic
FB + Crit + MVS: 10d10 + 2d6 + 40 + 4p costs 2 mythic

Or am I missing something? (e.g. I am still not sure, as to whether Foe-biting simply doubles everything or is an additional +1 modifier...)

Hm, when skimming the mythic rules I found the very nice feat Mythic Vital Strike (MVS), which basically allows you to use Vital Strike (VS), Improved VS and Greater VS for 2x, 3x or 4x regular damage- effectively it turns a standard attack into a 2/3/4 pseudo-crit. Now, you can also take foe-biting as a legendary power for your favorite magic weapon- you expend one mythic point and double the damage. Now- how does that work together?

Question a: Is it multiplicative (i.e. I get 4x/6x/8x) or does it add 1 (i.e. I get 3x/4x/5x)?

Question b: Also, can I spend 1 mythic point to get another attack for MVS (by amazing initiative)?

Benefit: Whenever you use Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike, multiply the Strength bonus, magic bonus, and other bonuses that would normally be multiplied on a critical hit by the number of weapon damage dice you roll for that feat.

When this item deals damage, its user can use mythic power to double the total amount of damage it deals. If the attack is a normal attack, the bearer can expend one use of legendary power to double the total amount of damage. If the attack is a confirmed critical hit, the bearer must instead expend two uses of legendary power to double the total damage. Damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) and precision-based damage are also doubled. This ability can be applied only to weapons. An item must be a minor or major artifact to have this ability.

Frankly, as a GM I would not allow it to enchance your melee damage (I guess that is what you are aiming for). Lamp oil wouldnt last more than a swing or two and spill all over.

A bit late so just some unpolished ideas:

Magic jar into an antropomorphic animal (spell). The strongest animal I found with a quick survey is the great white whale with base strength 50. With atropomorphic animal you can still cast.

Now add the mentioned tricks/ boni like enhancement (e.g. belt+6), morale (e.g. greater rage from barbarian +6, +X from courageous amulett), alchemical bonus (e.g. alchemist +6), inherant (e.g. wishes +5, unsure whether orc bloddliens would count), ad nauseam as before. Easy to get 70-80. While you are a colossal whale with arms which might make social interactions tricky, you can cast alter self etc. to get normal sized again (rules wise, I think you can keep your strength...)

BTW: If you want to break the game you now easily cast blood moneyed wishes...

Sure, you can further combine skills. As already mentioned, sometimes it makes sense (3.5 Move Silently&Hide -> PF Stealth), sometimes not (Knowledge Nature & Survival- one practical, one "theory"). Currently, it goes without question that skills are not used the same amount of times. Therefore I would appreciate to combine skills used less often into more compact ones. IMHO, for example Fly, Climb, Swimm and Acrobatics might all be combined into Athletics. This would make this skill both usefull at low levels (climb, swimn etc.) and high levels (fly).

Also, there are examples when skills are used very rarely. My group likes to substitute all "diplomacy work" by the good old solid BAB. Bloody barbarians ;)

As Abadar is the LN god of cvilization, the "noble knight" concepts works well in our group: the paladin upholds traditions and is generally very convervative, demands respect from those of a lower social standing but ,in turn, is sworn to their protection. Ranks in diplomacy, knowledge nobility and maybe even local (i.e. law) seem to work well. Also, get the shiniest bright golden armor there is ;)

Dont wipe the party just keep the build in mind, add the merciful MM and beat them up when they do something stupid as a warning shot! These kind of blaster are almost unbalancingly powerful in mid-low high level: I played a similar blaster and the GM upped all encounters quite a bit (maximized hit dice and better statistics).

Minor note: Gifted Adept and Magical Lineage are both magical traits and cannot be taken on the same character.

Chain Lightning (CL) with Magical Lineage on CL should work to qualify to allow a Quickend CL as a 6th level spell (normal rods!) with spell perfection. Try to get a 1 level crossblooded tatooed sorc dip (orc & element of choice) for +2 damage/damage dice and Mage's Tatoo. Then take a wizard-evocer (Admixture for Versatile Evocation) so you can freely choose the elment you want to use for CL.

Quick example on lvl 15:
CL 14 plus 1x2 (Mage's Tatoo evocation) + 2x2 (Spell Spec) + 1 (ion stone) +1 (robe of element, e.g. voidfrost robe) + 1 death knell etc.

In the end, you should easily get
Empowered (free from spell Perfection) + Intensified (Free from Theologian) + Persistant (Rod) + 1 Free 1-Metamagic (Silent, Still etc.) (Magical Lineage)
or
Quickened (free from spell Perfection) + Intensified (Free from Theologian) + Empowered (+1, Magical Lineage) + Persistent (Rod)

out of 7 level Slot

to do something like 20-25(d6+2)*1.5 +7 (evocer) damage each (average spell for your element of choice.

Ill Omen out of a Wand. Great setup for all SoS spells.

Have a look into the 1 lvl sorc dip: Dual-blooded (orc/ fire dragon) tatooed sorc. Nets you 1 feat with +1CL for evocation (doubled from spell perfection) and +2 fire damage/ hit dice. Unless you want to use dazing metamagic this should help your damage tremendously. Also search for blockbuster wizard (guide) on this forum.

If he plays a proper blaster resitance is futile (though elemental immunity sucks). Rime is great or he should have a look at dazing for even more control. There are some pretty good blaster duies on this forum. Also MM rods are quite cheap, so an elemental rod allows to adopt the element "on the fly".

Also, keep in mind that more players will slow down game play. To keep up the pace of the story and have combat take up too much gametime, you might remove some "boring" encounters.

To up the challenge (as mentioned): more enemies and/ or harder enemies. We are running Legacy of Fire right now with pretty optimized characters. Our GM typically gives enemies maxed hitdice and adds templates/ charater levels to them- which can lso add some flavor. Low CR encouters are either left out or replaced by way tougher enemies.

When I cast magic jar (or similar spells, e.g. Marionette Possession) do you keep boni from your magic equipment/ spells? It says that you keep your mental attributes, BAB, level etc.- but what about enhancement boni to them like headband of intelligence? What about items like a Ring of Protection?
Example: I cast magic jar as a wizard and put my conscience into the jar. Now, when I try to take over a bad guy, is the spell DC still influenced by the headband of intelligence? What about after to taking over- do I have to take the headband from my own body and now wear it on my new body? What about spells giving enhancement boni (fox cunning ect.)?

Good ruling and makes a lot of sense. Thank you Sean.

If you just want to blow stuff up:

Some build suggestions in the discussion
Discussion Blockbuster

Sample build at the end
Actual guide

Thank you for the clarifications, in particular also the RAW/ RAI part. I just got lvl 6 spells and am considering options for Contigency. Resist Energy sounded interesting, but given the difficulties of hitting the right energy type cheap MM extend rods seem easier. Range is, however, never really an issue with the wonderful reach spell metamagic ;) So my big question was part B which, at least RAI, offers some fantastic options.

Right now, "haste" looks like another great candidate for contigency "Cast haste on myself and Alfred, Berta, and Charlie when I say "Rosebud"." So in a really hard battle you got get 3 spells off in one round: the contigency one (which has to target yourself), a swift quickened one and a regular one.

According to other threats here, I have to decide which Energy Resist Energy protects me against at the time of casting (and not when memorizing). Now I want to cast Contingency plus Resist Energy.

You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time.

Question A)

Question B)
Now I want to cast Contingency plus Resist Energy (Communal).
"Cast Resist energy (Communal) Fire when I am attacked by fire damage protecting me and also my friends Alfred, Berta, and Caesar given they are in range." According to

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person

IMHO this should work, as it doesnt state that I have to be the only target. So part 1 of question B: Is this correct, i.e. can the Cont. affect other people as long as I am also a target? (E.g. Fireball myself on a hand gesture when I am resisting fire?) And part 2: What happens when Contigency-conditions are met (Fire attack) but one or more of my friends are not in range?

I would agree with Natch. The base cost is not changed.

You apprenticed for a time to an artisan who often built magic items, and he taught you many handy shortcuts and cost-saving techniques.

This part is all flavor. Now the rules part.

Benefit: Whenever you craft a magic item, you reduce the required gp cost to make the item by 5%.

No changes to base cost, just gp spent. Doesnt seem like it affects crafting time.

Hm, I would argue that a feat is roughly as powerful as an attribute bonus of +1. So what about allowing a feat to give something like inherant bonus feats, with "two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature" 2 to 5 inherent bonus feats. So analogous to attributes, you can have a max of 5 bonus feats this way if you manage to string 5 wish spells.

The Will-save DC for a Crystal Ball is pretty low (16)- so it's pretty unreliable to use on most enemies. I wouldnt cut the price too much- maybe to 3/4 or 2/3 of the full price.

More punch==more damage or are your asking for general advice- i.e. what is your aim? More Mobility (e.g. dimensional agility chain)? More damage? (e.g. critical hit chains) Better defense? (e.g. iron will + omproved iron will)

Dont make it too complicated, as some others already said in short:

normal enemies:
d10+bonus regular damage, 2 times (d10+bonus) on a crit
undead:
2 times (d10+bonus) regular, 3 times (d10+bonus) on a crit.

Bonus comes from weapon bonus (more for evil enemies), feats, strength etc. IMHO pretty straightforward as D&D does not multiply but add multipliers.

There are a couple of guide, in particular search for the recent "blockbuster wizard" which should also give a lot of ideas for blasting sorcs.

In short you can either got for pure damage or the control "dazing" line: for a damage blaster you want the orc bloodline plus evtl. cross-blooded (draconic) which results in 1 or 2 extra damage per dice. For amazing control just stick the dazing MM to your spell of choice. For both control or damage fireball is pretty good as are fire snake or chain lightning. The trait magical lineage is pretty good for your favorite spell. Have a look at metamagic, in particular empower, intense, selective, dazing and rods. Also, you have to find a way around elemental immunities (for example the wonderful dragon breath spell). Resistances can be blasted trough (i.e. ignored). Item-wise the goblin fire drum (try to somehow get a familiar for it) is cheap & good. Elves are OK as they bring +2 level for overcoming spell resistance- but you want also a bonus to charisma. The ubiquitous Humans, half-orcs, halflings and gnomes (pyromaniac!) are all good choices. Also, tieflings might be nice if the GM permits a charisma variant. Feats: spell focus to boost DC, improved initiative, toughness, and MM (empower, intense, quicken, selective, elemental, ...) are all good. Aim for spell perfection late game!

If you want to take dazing spell go straight wizard, for damange take the mentioned sorc dip (tatooed CB orc/ preferred draconic). The dip increases your damage from avarage 3.5 damage/dice to 5.5 which is crucial. Itemwise you focus strongly on damage but negelect your defenses, in particular dont leave home without a cloak of resistance.

Agree with Whale, it's very challenging to keep AC high enough to really prevent attackers from hitting you. In addition to the spells already mentioned have a look at blur, fly, greater invisibility or (blood money plus) stoneskin. Or, for your entertainment, buy an elephant or similar critter (1000gp) cast antropomorhpic animal (hours duration) and (MM rod extendeded) marionette possession/ magic jar. Instant new body with lots of defense and hit dice. GM might hate you, though :P

Always played that glitterdust cancels invisibility, i.e. no concealment roll. Your quote is breaking invisibility as the guy being invisible, i.e. if you cat glitterdust yourself and getting it cast on you while being invisible.

Puppies, kittens, baby elephants. Relax!

Just repetition, quotes have already been made. IMO the issue derived from the two different but similarly named concepts of spell level and used spell slot.

Spell level: determines DC, required MM rod etc. Effected by heighten. Other MM does not affect the level of the spell.

Required spell slot: "Price of casting", equal to spell level for vanilla spells.

MM: Does not change the level of the spell (except heighten) but does change the required spell slot. So a dazing fireball takes a 6th-level slot but is still considered a third level spell (so lesser rod are sufficient, and DC is that of a third level spell, can be countered as a 3rd level spell etc).

Chain Lightning is great but:
-not optimal at mid-levels in damage as you can empoyer lower-level spells
-you can only take the ML trait once so if you start at lower levels you have to wait quite some time; and without ML not Quicken with Spell Perfection as it would take a 10th level slot
-you still need intensify :P

Fire snake:
-Caps with intensify at 20d6
-limited range of 60'

Fireball:
-Caps intensified at 15d6
-needs selective unless you have fire-immune party members
-optimal in damage for low-mid levels
-can use cheap lesser rods

5000 gold coins weigh about 45.4 kg (~9 g a coin).

ps: Sry, but at least someone had to promote sensible (i.e. non-imperial) units :P

Spells:
Kayerloths list mentions all the basics. I want to re-emphasize moment of prescience. It can be kept permanently on (hours/clvl duraiton) and can boost your initiative. So start the fight, cast time stop, profit. Permanent symbols are wonderful decorations. If you want to be particualr nasty let the Lich have his own demiplane.

Magic items:
Just check out the wizard guiders. Typical choices: stat booters in particualr intelligence and charisma. Cloak of resistance. A dimensino door item to counter grappels. Cheap ion stones. Metamagic rods. Give him a ring of counterspell (dispel magic or greater dispel magic) to prevent de-buffing. Also dont forget minions like golems etc.

I am playing a wizard like that right now and am having a blast *pun intended*. Some pointers from my ingame experience:

-lesser metamagic rods are quite cheap and very powerful; the goblin fire drum is great for your familiar if you get some performace (percussion) ranks
-you will do insane damage- to the point where you GM might think about increasing challenge ratings of encounters; this can get quite ennoying for other players! Be generous with buff spells!
-scrolls are awesome for utility spells, in particualr lvl 1 scrolls

There is a recent guide on this forum (blockbuster wizard) which might give you some extra ideas.

Ok, while there is no full agreement I appreciate the different schools of thought here. After rereading the spell and the MM feats I tend to stick to my original opinion (works RAW but you should talk to your GM!). I do see, however, the merit of treating the spell as if it granted an "awakened template". E.g. the party's druid wants to take an awakened whatever via leadership you could just assign avarage stats or buy them via the standard point by system.

A simple solution is applying templates to upgrade the enemy mobs. You would not need to rework all encounters, just make them harder. Also, if the enemy knows there's someone invisible: ready action and shoot/ charge the field when he starts casting (50% miss though) or otherwise noticeable (scent, perception roll etc.).

...Professor Pupbeard teach at the academy...

Need to remember that one :)

My thoughts go more into the direction of having a campaign where the king is an awakened tree. With these attributes he could be outsmarting most.

Question in title.

IMHO RAW it should be fine - and scary at the same time: An empowered maximized awaken spell would give your bonzai 18+1/2*3d6 in all mental attributes. Or any MM awakened kitten could explain advanced magical theory to the comparably stupid archmages...

I was under the impression that those 2 traits overlapped.

They are two different kind of traits so both can be taken. Looking at their wording ML treats the Metamagic itself 1 lvl lower while WSH reduces the final spell slot by 1. My gamemaster house-ruled that they cant be taken on the same spell but RWA it should be fine.