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Organized Play Member. 1,247 posts (15,967 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 52 aliases.

Conceal Spell wrote:

You can hide the evidence of spells you cast.

Prerequisite(s): Deceitful, Bluff 1 rank, Disguise 1 rank, Sleight of Hand 1 rank.

Benefit(s): When you cast a spell or use a spell-like ability, you can attempt to conceal verbal and somatic components among other speech and gestures, and to conceal the manifestation of casting the spell, so others don’t realize you’re casting a spell or using a spell-like ability until it is too late. The attempt to hide the spell slows your casting slightly, such that spells that normally take a standard action to cast now take a full-round action, and spells that normally take longer than a standard action take twice as long. (Swift action spells still take a swift action.) To discover your ruse, a creature must succeed at a Perception, Sense Motive, or Spellcraft check (the creature receives an automatic check with whichever of those skills has the highest bonus) against a DC equal to 15 + your number of ranks in Bluff or Disguise (whichever is higher) + your Charisma modifier; the creature gains a bonus on its check equal to the level of the spell or spell-like ability you are concealing.

If your spell has a somatic component, any creature that can see you receives a Perception or Spellcraft check (whichever has the highest bonus) against a DC equal to 15 + your number of ranks in Sleight of Hand + your Dexterity modifier; the creature gains a bonus on its check equal to the level of the spell or spell-like ability you are concealing.

Since you are concealing the spell’s manifestation through other actions, others observing you realize you’re doing something, even if they don’t realize you’re casting a spell. If there is a verbal component, they still hear your loud, clear voice but don’t notice the spell woven within.

If an opponent fails its check, your casting also does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and an opponent that fails its check can’t use readied actions that depend on realizing that you’re casting a spell or using a spell-like ability, or readied actions such as counterspelling that require identifying the spell you’re casting. Spells such as fireball that create an additional obvious effect (aside from the manifestation of casting that all spells and spell-like abilities share) still create that effect, though it might not be obvious who cast the spell unless it emanates from you.

If a character interacts with you long enough to attempt a Sense Motive check without realizing you have been casting spells, that character can use Sense Motive to gain a hunch that you’re behaving unusually.

Emphasis mine. The Feat has Deceitful as a prerequisite, but as written, the DC for both checks is 15+ranks+governing attribute.

Since it specifically calls out ranks, that means no other boni get into play.
For comparison:
Feint in Combat wrote:

You can also use Bluff to feint in combat, causing your opponent to be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC against your next attack. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s base attack bonus + your opponent’s Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent’s Sense Motive bonus, if higher. For more information on feinting in combat, see Combat.

In Feinting, for example, the full Sense Motive Bonus is used to set the DC.

But for Conceal spell, you actually only count the ranks plus attribute. That means no class skill, no deceitful bonus...also no racial, trait, insight, competence, luck, insight, unnamed etc... bonus.

Considering the Feat already requires you to pay a follow-up Feat Tax to remove the scaling penalty on spell-levels, and usually will allow 2 opposed checks, it seems very harsh to basically shoot the caster in the knee by artificially limiting the DC he can achieve.
The prerequisite of Deceitful not helping in any way also feels weird, as does that a charismatic sorcerer with ranks in sleight of hand does better than a wizard with the same number of ranks, who made it a class skill, got skill focus for it, and wears a circlet of persuasion.

Was this worded in an unfortunate way, or is this really the intent?

My question refers to this part of the rules.

My problem is that it seems unclear what "straight towards you" means in a setup like this:


(with A=Attacker and T=Target).
Is "1" below A or above T? You can see that it makes a serious difference because the Attacker would either hit himself with splash on a 1 and 2, or on a 1 and 8.
Does it need to be handled with a D2-roll randomly or is there some clarification available on how to deal with this situation?

Apologies if that is covered somewhere, but I only ever found that it's a swift action to activate, and a swift action to swap to a different style...with the effects of your style persisting until you swap to another one.

However, the style is not "active" by default, you are not assumed to get it's advantages e.g. at the start of combat, until you actually switch it "on".

Would that not imply that one could end a style as a free action? (Which would also work with "turn off previous style as a free action, then turn another one on as a swift action, for a total cost of swift).

Basically I'm asking if you really need a swift action to "turn off" a style?

Specifically, I am asking about Spear Dancing Style.
It allows you to two-weapon fight with a reach weapon, but it loses reach. Another feat in the chain allows you to give it reach until the end of your turn.
But ultimately, it seems underwhelming since you lose the "reach" aspect when it's not your turn, so no AoO's for enemies approaching(/no tumbling needed). Even if you would be willing to "re-activate" each turn for a swift action if you could turn it off. But it seems as worded one is stuck with a Style's effect, both positive and negative, until one spends a swift action to turn it off again.
Is that reading correct?

I know Combat Style Master would be a way around this, but that's a heavy Feat Tax for non-monks/non-bonus-feat-heavy classes.

Hells Rebels Tactical Map

Kinda necessary, it would seem. Also yay. First post in first campaign!

fluid fey-touched Dreamlord

A safe Headquarters...nobody will hear you talk here...

1 person marked this as a favorite.

ABOUT THIS GAME: Been thinking about running a game here myself for quite a while. Never quite felt up to the challenge, and not having the digital version of AP's available for use was a further detriment. As it happens, the recent humble-bundle provided me(and countless others) with the first 3 chapters of the Hell's Rebels AP. I figure thats as good a chance as any to give it a try, and see how things go. If I get a group that actually makes it through those 3 without falling apart, I'll gladly get the other books then, one at a time.
Be aware that while I have not gotten to play it myself yet, I WILL change things around. Since tons of people probably got the bundle, and the books, running it themselves or having played it, I want to keep things interesting and may alter significant parts of the AP.

BEFORE YOU READ ANY FURTHER: I'm looking for serious, long-term players. I'm not just trying to start this campaign, I'm trying to finish it. If you genuinely cannot see yourself being a stable and active member of the Paizo forum for the foreseeable future (at least two years), please do not apply.(Shamelessly stolen text, but I could not word it better myself) - This is a big deal. When I find characters interesting, I WILL dig into profiles. Being a long-term player in campaigns will be a huge plus, having abandoned games a huge minus when it comes to making a decision.

Posting Rate: I usually aim at a 1/day posting rate, but I am well aware life sometimes throws curve balls. However, slowing down too much is not good for pbp. People forget what was happening, lose track, lose interest. At least every other day should be do-able. If you know you'll be gone for a while, post beforehand and let us know who should bot you(me or another player). If you fall ill or otherwise disappear, a note would be nice but if it's not happening too often, it'll not be a problem.
If you are missing longer than 20 days without notice or PM answer, I'll start looking for a replacement. I think thats a more than fair time span.

Sourcebooks: Any Paizo. (Not familiar enough with Psionics and Path of War to allow them...I'll have plenty enough to do learning to GM on pbp, I don't intend to get in-depth familiar with those two to a point where I feel confident I can estimate a characters ability/power(now/future)), Spheres of Power is allowed(though I am only moderately familiar with the classes...I would probably have a slight bias towards traditional classes using spherecasting, but that can definitely be offset with a good concept).

Starting Level: 1
Starting Gold: Max for Class.
HP: Max at first, half rounded up or GM roll afterwards.
Skill Points: We are using Background Skills.
Ability Score: 25 point buy.
Traits: 1+1 Campaign. If you want a second regular trait, I'll pick a drawback based on your background.(which may not be the most fitting, but unlike many of the options, will come up during play)
Alignment: Good preferred, Neutral allowed, Teamwork necessary.
Race: Any Paizo. But anything that can pass as humanoid citizen without standing out TOO much will have a much better chance of being picked.
(Variant Heritage for Tieflings has no Feat-Tax, but the Tables for Variant Abilities are not used for them nor Aasimars.)

Additional Rules:
Now, here's the big part: Every character gets ONE Boon you get to pick from the following list(so EITHER free VMC, OR 3 Levels of Gestalt, OR the free Racial Feats.)
I am well aware those options are not 100% equal in power. But this is a cooperative game, not a competition. The options are there to allow interesting characters to be built, not to min-max. As such, any discrepancy in the perceived power levels should not be relevant in the game.

Boon Option 1: Free Variant Multiclassing: Pick another class at Character Creation. You get the benefits of Variant Multi-Classing in that class without giving up any feats.
e.g. Merisiel the Rogue decides that the abilities of a Ranger would benefit her, picking up Ranger as her VMC choice. She progresses normally as a Rogue(or other Class), gaining all her normal Feats, but additionally picks up Track at Level 3, Favored Enemy at Level 7, Favored Terrain at Level 11, Woodland Stride(and Swift Tracking) at Level 15, and Quarry at Level 19.

Boon Option 2: 3 Levels of Gestalt: Pick another class at Character Creation. For the first three levels, you will Gestalt with this class. Hybrid Base classes are not available for this option, but Hybrid Prestige Classes are available(unlike regular gestalt...e.g. Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight...)
e.g. Lini the Druid feels sad at the lack of armors she can wear and weapons she can wield, picking up Unchained Monk as a Gestalted Class, progressing through the first 3 Levels as Monk/Druid, gaining Saves, Weapon Familiarities, AC Bonus, Bonus Feats, Fast Movement etc...(basic Gestalting...only limited to 3 Levels)

Boon Option 3: Free Racial Feat at first Level, second Level and every 2 Levels after to a total of 8 at Level 14: So at Levels 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14 you get to pick up one of the Racial Feats listed on your Races page on the SRD. Racial Heritage is NOT applicable for this, same for mixed heritage races(half-elf). Only the Feats specifically calling out the race you ARE apply.
(After characters are choosen, we will equalize the Feat lists so everbody who choose this boon has the same number of available picks. I will not remove options, but may end up making additional options available - a Sylph, for example, would only have 5 racial Feats. I would then add more to the list drawing from other races Feat pools-)
e.g. Seoni the Sorcerer is sad that she has so few Skill Points. Being a Human, she opts for the Racial Feats and picks up Fast Learner at Level 1, Improvisation at Level 2, Improved Improvisation at Level 4, Defiant Luck at Level 6, Inexplicable Luck at Level 8, Bestow Luck at Level 10...

Character Concept:
This is a big deal on getting choosen. With the Boons listed above, a great number of options for making interesting characters should be available.
Show me that yours is. Make me want to see your submission in action. If you simply over-optimize and try to stack on the boni, I'll likely not find that very interesting. Rather try and use the options to either patch up weaknesses, open interesting paths, or increase versatility.

So there's three parts to this I would like to see:

  • A background(can be as short or as long as you think is necessary. just be reasonable...two lines is probably too short, two pages unreasonably long)
  • ↳Bonus points if you also, in addition, include a ten-minute-background(google it).
  • some insight into the characters personality, in whatever form you prefer. A (short) sample post, a personality description, a superiors letter describing the characters performance during a task, a letter home...
  • a basic idea of where you're planning to go and how you will benefit the group...that does not have to be all plotted out, being flexible is good, but a general idea of what role you aim to fill will help me choose.

Deadline: I would like to keep this open for about 2 weeks. So between 28-31 March, I will announce closing of recruitment with a 48-hour notice, during which I will request everybody interested to re-post their submission before making my pick. Then you will have a few days to make final adjustments and plan ahead as a group before we pick up the game.

Party Size: With the expectation that alternatingly, people may drop, be on vacation, ill, or otherwise not fully able to contribute, I am looking to choose 5 people for this game, one of which MAY be slotted:
Explanation: There's a handful of people that I enjoy playing with, and previously made a list of those - I have not notified them of this recruitment, but if any of those show up, the one highest on that list will automatically get that one slot. This pre-pick, IF it happens, will be announced 1 week before recruitment closes(not earlier in case someone higher on the list wanders in...unless the person on top of the list comes by, then obviously I'll state so ASAP.)

Was that ever clarified somewhere?

E.g. if Silence is the coupled spell effect. Is the whole 40-feet area treated as area of Silence for applicable creatures entering? (Honestly, that seems like it makes more sense, but could be powerful because it's a selective silence...)
Or do they get to make a save, then have silence centered on them, as per the spell? If so, does the silence "outrange" the 40-feet of the area? Stick with them permanently while they are inside? Could someone else "dispel" the silence on them? If so, would it come back after a while, as per supression of a permanent effect, or would it be gone?

What about Dispel Magic...does it trigger once only, when a creature enters for the first time ever? Or each time a creature enters the area? Once per round?

Does the Dimensional Anchor only function while the creature is inside, or will the effect linger for the round? (otherwise unless at the center, all it takes is a move action to shake it off) Does it affect ethereal creatures trying to move into the material plane/prevent summoning into the area?(In that they cannot "move" to the material plane, either...i know stuff that already is ethereal can freely move ethereal...but does it just prevent "leaving" the material plane, or does it lock ALL travel to and from it(except summoned creatures disappearing as per the exception noted)...also, what if a Ethereal Jaunt ends while on the Ethereal side of a Dimensional Anchor-covered area? Re-Materialize? Get shifted? Nothing while remaining there?

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

It would seem, by RAW, they are affected by it?
The "Cure" spells specifically call out living creatures, and "Channel Energy" specifically names living and undead creatures as affected, and "Inflict" spells are necromancy, which is covered by construct traits, meaning the most available sources of negative(+positive) energy are covered.

But other sources, e.g. from an Umbral Dragons Breath Weapon, would, by RAW, affect constructs, it would seem?
Same as a trip to a positive or negative energy-based plane would affect a construct just the same as any living creature?

Did I miss something, and is that only RAW or is there a reasoning for it being RAI too that Constructs are not simply immune to positive/negative energy?

9 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Was this ever updated in an FAQ?

I see the Feat came out in 2010, which is quite a while back.
But meanwhile, there's plenty of races who could fulfill the age requirements.

Why can an Middle-Aged Undine not have that same wealth of experience as a Middle-Aged Gnome? While I am certain many GM's would not be opposed to allowing the feat for other races, was this ever adressed officially?

Would it be possible to implement a kind of "vacation-mode" to the forum-accounts?

I've recently joined a handful of pbp games on the messageboard.
I have an upcoming short family trip into the wildneress, where i'll be cut off from comunications for a few days.
Now, of course I can post in each of those games in the discussion thread, and just in case it's missed there, send the GM a mesage.
But I kind of expected to find a functionality in place to take care of these things.

It would be really easy to just "set" a vacation mode in "my account" with the message board settings. You activate it and can write a short message, just like it works with emailclients.
Then, in all parts of the forum where your character gets "listed"(so not normal posts), there could be a slightly colored bar behind the name, indicating this account is in vacation-mode. Clicking on an alias/the account would then display the profile as normal, but additionally, below the name, next to post count and main alias, would display, with the same background color, the vacation message.

Going further:
The same mechanic could be applied to people who have not been online in, say, 30+ days, using a different color and replacing the message displayed with "Inactive for xx days, last visit on date/time".

If going away for a few days, or otherwise unable to post, there would be one centralized place to set a notification for all other people who may be affected. Naturally it's good form to tell them regardless, but like this, it would be visible at a glance, and very convenient as other players could also check when you return, without having to dig out the relevant post.

Investigative Mind:

Range personal
Target you
Duration 10 minutes/level or until discharged

Your mind is able to correlate information effectively. When attempting an Appraise, Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft check, you can roll twice and take the higher result. If you have an ability that allows you to roll twice, you cannot use that ability and this benefit on the same roll.

The spell is discharged once you have used its benefit a number of times equal to your caster level.

Lore Master (Ex):

At 5th level, the bard becomes a master of lore and can take 10 on any Knowledge skill check that he has ranks in. A bard can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally. In addition, once per day, the bard can take 20 on any Knowledge skill check as a standard action. He can use this ability one additional time per day for every six levels he possesses beyond 5th, to a maximum of three times per day at 17th level.

Taking 10:

When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.

If I interpret the above correctly, having Investigative Mind Effect on me allows me to roll twice. Lore master then allows, for knowledge checks, to instead of roll for one of them, calculate as if I rolled a 10. I still get to roll the second die since I am not forced to take 10 on it, too.

So in effect, I could assure a minimum of 10+skill, and have 1d20 roll to see if i can do better than average. Is that correct, ruleswise?
(While it seems clear, I am not familiar with the handling of skills/spells/feats that allow you to roll multiple dice for a check and the validity of taking 10 in conjunction with them.)

Hurling, Lesser:

Hurling, Lesser (Ex)

Benefit: As a full-round action while raging, the barbarian can lift and hurl an object up to one size category smaller than herself with both hands or two size categories smaller with one hand as an improvised weapon with a range increment of 10 feet. This inflicts damage as a falling object plus the barbarian’s Strength bonus. This damage is halved if the object is not made of stone, metal, or similar material. This is a ranged touch attack, and the target may attempt a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the barbarian’s level + the barbarian’s Strength modifier) for half damage. The barbarian may apply Power Attack to this attack as a one- or two-handed weapon, as appropriate.

plus its 2 upgrades(+2 size on objects), allow a enlarged barbarian to hurl "huge" objects, listed as 6d6 damage.

Does Strenght and Object Weight play into this in any form?
=> Could a Barbarian buffed and with sufficient rage-strenght throw things that are pretty much at the limit of his lifting strenght?

And if so, how does a Heavyload-Belt play into it?
=> Could above-mentioned barbarian hurl even heaver objects?(As in, is the only requirement for hurling it that the barbarian be able to lift the object and it fits the size?)

While the basic idea is to duplicate a Catapult with less range increment but higher rate of fire(and lots of stray shots hitting the general target area), there is also a secondary question:
Considering there is a Reflex-Save for half damage, a failed Save probably means a proper hit.

Considering the ammo is possible something like a huge wagon or a stone larger than the enlarged barbarian, it's rather unlogical to assume the hurled object just vanishes into nothingness after impact.

In that case, if a "huge", properly formed(not round, rather flat) massive stone weighing, say, 1000-6000(depending on above answers) lbs lands on, say, a squishy caster(max heavy load: 80 lbs), would said caster get trapped[Edit: Pinned, to use proper terminology] underneath it? As in, be covered by an object he is unable to lift or wiggle out off?(Not even thinking about cave-in-ruling or per-round damage as thats CLEARLY not the intent. I imagine that somewhat like in the old asterix movie in which obelix throws a menhir at the druid)

I know probably its a table call, but are there any precedents for falling objects trapping characters except during cave-ins or in traps?

Seeing how its a full round-action and 3 rage powers, i wonder if there's any mileage beyond the 6d6 to get out of it. I know it's also a table call regarding the large and huge objects that potentially cover several 5-feet squares/creatures, but for simplicitiys sake, the barbarians will stick to throwing huge but compact stones at most 5x10feet they transported there.

Intent is massive bombardment of a defended stronghold by a whole tribe of them(well, a reasonable number of the tribe), so not close-range specific targetting, but general area bombardment, rather an guarantee that some people WILL inevitably get hit, and the inside of the stronghold littered with huge stones(some ON people) making it difficult terrain before the following assault.
So I will probably get some people alive and trapped under stones either way, but if there's no "proper" rules for handling that I will probably use (important) NPC's for that part and improvise.

(edit: see above, just changed one part of terminology).

Just because the situation came up recently.

It would seem that RAW Evasion works as long as you are wearing the right armor for the class that grants it with no other terms attached?

Or is there some term i'm missing in relation to encumbrance?

Situation: In a recent game, under time pressure, the group had to move lots of heavy things from spot A to spot B.
They picked up as much as possible(without getting staggered) and were carrying the "Maximum Load" when they were suddenly attacked.

I am aware that limits the effective Dex Modifier and thus the Reflex Save, but (improved) Evasion triggers all the same?
I was under the impression that Evasion also got limited if you were overencumbered similar to wearing too-heavy armor but find nothing to support that?

I am DM'ing for a group of players, homebrew campaign, 2 veterans, 3 guys relatively new to pathfinder, currently at Level 10.

One of the Veterans went with a Monk(MoMS), tanky type(Snake Style counter attacking), but not really that dangerous in pure offensive power.
The three "newbies" went with Inquisitor, Barbarian, and Sorcerer. Healing gets handled via Wands of CLW, and they have an combat-useless NPC Bard Archeologist with them to handle traps and some knowledges.(Omitting all traps because nobody felt like playing a class that can deal with them felt as cheesy as using traps without giving them a chance to deal with them)

The second Veteran went with Human Ranger(Archery Style with animal companion), knowing that due to the setting most enemies will be human(and the favored enemy bonus for them gets halfed as a result...that was agreed on though before we started).

With Combat Style and Feats, he got(if i remember correctly)
Weapon Focus
Point-Blank Shot,
Rapid Shot,
Clustered Shots,
Precise Shot,
Deadly Aim,
Improved Precise Shot(Combat Style)
Point-Blank-Master(Combat Style)

So if Haste Buff(usually first round of combat if no prebuffing)+Heroism(with its duration, usually on in situations with sequential combats like ancient ruins they explore) is on, thats 3 attacks at -5(first of which is 2 hits) and one at -10, but with a focus on Dex(dumped stats to get it to 18 by point buy, 20 as human, level increases, and +4 item),+2 magic weapon and full BaB+Weapon Focus thats still 18/18/18/13 which has a good hit rate against most stuff around CR11.(or 21/21/21/16 against Favored Enemy, +1 to all of those sets if point-blank range).
He uses Gravity Bow himself when possible to increase damage die to 2D6.
So average damage per hit is 2D6(average 7)+6(Deadly Aim)+2(Bow)+1d6 elemental(3.5)+1 strenght, +1 if point blank, or 19.5/20.5, +3 or +2 for his three favored enemy's against many encounters. With 2 arrows from manyshot, and assuming last attack fails, thats ~80+ damage done per round, 100+ if last hits, ~60+ if 2 attacks fail.

That, in itself, would not be such a problem, but from Monk, Inquisitor, Sorcerer and Barbarian, only the Barbarian can consistently match the raw damage output, and definitely not the range.
Anything short of total cover is useless, melee is no threat since he doesn't provoke(as point blank master he just enjoys point-blank-shot and clusters their face with arrows), Damage Reduction is more or less bypassed via Clustered Shots, ranged encounters, difficult terrain or flying enemies just play into his strenghts more.

I am kind of running out of ideas how to deal with him in a way to make encounters enjoyable for the remainder of the group too. Because just having close-combat encounters to give them a chance to do SOMETHING gets old too, same as situations that prevent full attacks(which tend to also slow down everybody else and just drag the combat out).
He's glassy, but focusing him down to unconscious ALSO gets old(despite that obviously being a reasonable tactic for smart enemies as they face), same as shutting him down via magic(been done, but I tend to not overuse magics that completely take a character out of combat for prolonged times, boring for the player.).
Making AC of enemies high enough to make hitting problematic for him makes it problematic for MAD inquisitor and Monk, too, while he can just switch off rapid shot and increase his chances.

It's a normal dedicated Build and by all means, i want him to enjoy it and have fun too, but it just seems awfully strong in comparison. And I have to admit, the last time I was DM in a campaign, there was no Clustered Shots and Point-Blank-Master, so throwing something with good DR at the group usually meant different people got to shine, and getting up close and personal was a threat too, especially with step-up and the likes.

The monk using pummeling style and barbarian using pounce, do get full attacks too, IF they can charge, but thats not every round and if not they are stuck with a single attack, and even IF they charge and get to full attack, they get one less attack(no equivalent for rapid shot for melee), they don't get an extra hit with full bonus(no equivalent for manyshot for melee), and the barbarian has to deal with DR per hit(which often offsets some of the extra damage per hit he deals putting his total below ranger against resistent enemies).
Plus if they charge a Target and their first hit kills it(because a group of numerous weak enemies or already wounded) they basically lose their remaining actions while the ranger just picks a new target(unless its a single strong target he used clustered shot on).
The Inquisitor is ranged too but underperforming because of crossbow, 3/4th BAB, MAD and feat starved compared to the ranger. Sorcerer tries to do Controller but is not very experienced at it and looking to Ranger for advice(so e.g. stuff like black tentacles is preferred)

So, after knowing my situation(and thanks for reading it all), are there any suggestions as to how to deal with it?
As mentioned, I want the player to enjoy himself too so just abusing weak Will save or sundering weapon is off.

I did use grappling and disarming(but full BAB+focus on Dex also gives him decent defense there@29), as well as situations involving magical darkness, invisibility, communal stone skin and wind wall, as well as enemies with deflect arrows-variants, a trap room that forces a move each round less it does damage and a few other things I cannot remember right now(campaign is running a while already, we all got jobs and its not that easy to find time).
Again, by all means, that Ranger gets his days in the Sun too, enjoy being the MVP and be cheered on by his fellow heros, no problem there, most of the time he gets to shine but I need some ideas for encounters that let the others feel like Heroes too.
Because as it stands now, he is dominating pretty much each encounter by raw number of hits and the fact he can basically full attack each round. Ranged combat seems to have no real weakness. And i kind of want to prevent players just dumping their chars to go with Fighter/Archer Archetype + Archery Paladin + Zen Bow Monk, because Ranged is just that much better thanks to rapid+manyshot.
I know i could e.g. houserule vital strike to work with charge/spring attack and allow rebuilding chars(never understood why it would not work with either in the first place, considering it only add's 1 damage dice per feat, compared to manyshot that works with rapid shot and adds all the boni of the arrow), but that would still not alleviate the core problem of that ranger having consistently high damage output at range, able to pool on one target or distribute to several, with no obvious weakness except will save and moderate AC/HP.

PS: Talking with the Player is not REALLY going to work, he's rather involved with his character(including backstory) and getting him to artificially weaken his build, even if he would agree, would kind of destroy his bond to his character, which i want to prevent if at all possible. If I run out of ideas, I may have to go that route, but maybe someone has some suggestions before that.

How do they interact?

Silence states that all the creatures within it's effect are immune to sonic-based damage.

Now, magnifying chime has a 10-minute casting time which makes this less abusable but regardless i was wondering.

If the group bard was to cast Magnifying Chime on an Object, then Silence on himself, what would happen?

Option 1.:
Silence completely prevents Magnifying Chime from working, as no sound can pass through its area. Strikes me as a bit weird as a Level 1 Spell preventing sound effectively shuts down a Level 6 Spell trying to make sound.(Compare light/darkness spells, haste/slow and the like...a hard-counter usually needs to be higher level).

In this case, effectively the Bard could then spend several rounds approaching a target, with nobody any wiser, and then, e.g. 3 rounds before the spells run out, chuck the Object like a grenade, for, in case of a Level 20 Bard a sudden "burst" of 18d6 in 90 feet spread followed by 19d6 in 95 feet spread and 20d6 in 100 feet spread, giving no advance warning.
Considering a successfull stealth-check, the 18D6 would be surprising, and during the round with 19d6 many enemies would, depending on layout, not be able to leave the effective area before the 20d6 strikes.
Seems like a handy conflict-opener when the party can decide when and where to engage, especially considering the bard and his party are still immune in their silence-bubble.

or Option 2.:
Silence per it's definition does protect against the sonic damage by magnifying chime, but the radius-increase and damage-increase is a magical effect that transcends the area of silence and is not mitigated by it. So starting from 5th turn, you have 20 feet of silence and then around that, an ever increasing area of increasing sonic damage.
So again, the bard could, if party can choose to engage, cast the magnifying chime, then a silence-spell, and then the party can attack with the frontliners trying to keep enemies just outside the silence-zone(or, alternatively, handing the object(with magnifying chime and silence cast on it) to someone who's initiative is just before the bard so the person can reposition for maximum effect before the spell is triggered.)
Seems this is also powerful in connection with diverse control-spells that can trap the attacked enemy or reinforcements in the spells effect.

Both applications seem like nice mileage to get out of the chime spell, although of course highly situational and not without drawbacks(e.g. party mage needs to bring some silent spells). It's just, which scenario would work out? Or is there a third, other scenario that I didn't catch?

In the discussion about the new free action limit, i saw them mentioned, especially with the gunslinger.

I'm using d20pfsrd as my main source to look up things, and it states there that:

"Weapon cords are 2-foot-long leather straps that attach your weapon to your wrist. If you drop your weapon or are disarmed, you can recover it as a swift action, and it never moves any further away from you than an adjacent square. However, you cannot switch to a different weapon without first untying the cord (a full-round action) or cutting it (a move action or an attack, hardness 0, 0 hp). Unlike a locked gauntlet, you can still use a hand with a weapon cord, though a dangling weapon may interfere with finer actions."

Yet in the discussion they are always stated as free actions. So, my question is: what did i miss, or how did that change?
Are they free actions or swift actions now? Because swift seems a lot more limiting and seems a lot more reasonable as well.

Was it changed to free at some time and then caused problems with certain cheesey builds? Basically i'm asking WHAT they are at the current time and where's the source for that?

A character, say, inquisitor, with rapid reload can fire his hand crossbow as many times as he can in a full attack action.
Reloading it is a free action but needs a free hand to pull the lever(nothing else held in that hand).

Would it theoretically work to shoot the crossbow, quick draw, say, a dagger, throw it with the other hand, then, with the "free" hand reload the crossbow, shoot it, quickdraw another dagger and throw it, then reload again and shoot a third time?

On a further note, how would a glove of storing synergize with a weapon cord in this example?
Do you HAVE to take your two-weapon attacks alternating or can do do all attacks with one hand, then all attacks with the other hand?
(The idea being to "drop" the off hand crossbow, do the attacks with the main hand, then swift-action-retrieve the offhand, free action store the main hand, do the attacks with the offhand, free action retrieve the main hand)
(Alas: Glove of Storing only takes the magical wrist slot for us, so DOES work with nonmagical items on the other hand(such as weapon cord)).

Basically we are looking on making the vision of a dual-crossbow-wielding inquisitor come true for a new player, so if needed, i will houserule in this case. But i would not want to set a precedence at my table if it IS possible in RAW.

6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite.

"Terrain Mastery (Ex)

Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a favored terrain as the ranger ability of the same name, though the favored terrain ability does not increase with her level as the ranger’s ability does.

Special: A rogue can take this ability multiple times, each time applying it to a new terrain, and granting all other favored terrains a +2 increase to the favored terrain bonus."

I'm wondering: Is this intended?

Both the Ranger and Horizon Walker only ever increase one other terrains bonus when they get a new one.

Namely, I see a problem with Horizon Walkers that get a huge number of favored terrains-

I was working up a Rogue5/Barbarian1/Horizon Walker3 for a late-blooming Dimensional Savant Build(Astal Plane Dominance for CL 9 entry)...
but basically any class dip into Horizon Walker can pick up a number of Favored Terrains...all of which then get boosted by the rogues Terrain Mastery...and if taken 2-3 times, all of them get boosted repeatedly.
Since the bonus applies on Initiative, Stealth and Perception, i can see some abuse with snipey rogues there.
Especially since Terrain Dominance(for 3 or 6 level HW dips) allow usage of Favored Terrain Bonus as "Favored Enemy Bonus" against whatever is native there.
In a largely urban setting, that could easily get out of hand, for example...

Was this intended or an oversight in the formulation?

Warning: Slight non-graphic sexual content.

In a campaign of mine, the party sorceress(human 15, soomewhat of a wild child, chaotic neutral) hopelessly fell in love with the party cleric(human 27, neutral good) after he displayed some amazing feats of heroism(natural 20's on attribute/skill checks, saving her life twice, that sort of thing).

Said Cleric, however, is searching for his missing love interest, and shrugs off any and all attempts of the Sorceress.
Now, the sorceress in a fit of youthful spite and deviousness(she's got a temper on her, and wisdom was a dump stat), plans to secretly still have him father a child on her, and take it from there, not taking no for an answer.

Her basic idea was to use magic jar during the night, to try and take over the sleeping cleric, walk over to her own room and have sex with her own lifeless body until eventually she will conceive a child.

Now, the weirdness and f%#!ed-up-ness of the situation aside(both players are married guys in their 20's that are experienced RP'ers...just saying no Out-of-Game stuff is spilling over into the game here), some questions arose:

I know a sleeping Character is helpless, and gets his Will Save.
However, on a successfull Save, will he wake up? Does he know something is wrong? Or will he just happily go on sleeping?
(We ruled that the automatic save against further possession attempts is per casting of the spell, not per character globally...the wording is a bit unclear on that.)

On that same note, if she succeeds in taking over his body, and his life force is imprisoned in the gem(which is already in his possession courtesy of a magic item she crafted him and decorated with it), will he happily stay helplessly sleeping the night away in that gem until his body returns or would that wake him up?

Either way, i suppose he's not able to remember whatever his body did, and the question is, IF he wakes up in the gem, then his body returns and she shifts back, he will suddenly be in his own body again and wake up physically....would he reasonably just take that as a nightmare or does he KNOW something is off(that is, is he entitled to a spellcraft-check? In the Gem/after waking?).

Also, i know there's "Detect Pregnancy" but other than that i found little in the rules...i know 3.5 had some. But is there anything RAW that would help her conceive(magically) or some indication of how long she will be doing this before successful? (Or should i just rule a D20 roll each night and on a 20 she succeeded?)

The Archetype gets a number of Boni when fighting with 2 weapons.

And a Light Shield is also listed under the "Weapons" and can be used as a bludgeoning weapon when shield bashing.

There's also such things as "Bashing Finish" having Two-Weapon Fighting as Prerequisite-so, would a Shield qualify for this archetype?

Meaning with improved bash you could keep your Shield AC, and enjoy the benefits of the Archetype by doing both a normal Attack and a Shield Bash with a standard attack/AoO when high enough level?
With the proper feats, throwing in a bull rush as well with the shield bash?
And possibly(with the multitude of feats) set up a combat patrol to hit people and shield-slam-bullrush them away?

Or is there some reason this cannot work?
(I know until level 11 when you can get Shield Master, the Shield will be way inferior to other (magical) weapons, and any weapon foci or weapon specializations only go to one weapon, but the extra AC + Arrow Deflection etc. could be well worth that.)

Also, on a side note: Is it legally possible to take the Feat "Eldritch Heritage", choosing the Arcane Bloodline, which, as Level 1 Power, gives Arcane Bond, and thus aquire a Familiar at a "power" level of CL-2(per Eldritch Heritage) for basically any Character that qualifies?

(Note that this is mostly for fluff reasons for a possible antagonist in a campaign i'm running. So i'll go with it anyway, but while designing, I kind of wondered if all of this is RAW, or i'm entering homebrew. Just stating this to clarify i am not trying to bend rules in any way here).

I was merely wondering, since trip substitutes a melee attack, is it also subject to come and get me?

As in, if a Barbarian gets Greater Trip(yep, a long way), is it viable to have someone attack, him, which, by description of the rage power, provokes from him...then have the barbarian trip him(which provokes another attack of opportunity), meaning the person gets -4 on melee attacks and a -4 AC bonus(meaning next turn the barbarian can "hack them up good").(Basically that would mean the +4 attack/damage turn into +4 damage for -4 AC).

Even though it would seem so flavorwise..., rules-wise, would this cancel the bonus provided by a charge?(as in, someone charges the barbarian, and gets tripped up and smashed in the he considered to have hit the barbarian, too, during the charge action, maintaining the boni?)
And if that bonus is not cancelled, what if the Barbarian kills his target, is the attack that triggered it still resolved?

What if instead of a greater trip the barbarian used knockback during his AoO? Moving him away 5 feet, meaning out of melee reach, but close enough to step up next turn and cut them up?

Would those scenarios work properly?(i.e. is a Barbarian Controller a valid build?)
This Barbarian will be in a mostly humanoid-based campaign, so even in higher levels, he'll not run dry of tripable opponents, so i wondered about the validity.

As i see it, double weapons seem rather...ineffectual.

To properly make use of them, you need two-weapon fighting, if you are wielding them 2-handed, there is better alternatives.

Only, two-weapon fighting needs dex, and aside the fact that double weapons are not usually finessable, that cuts into strenght/hit/damage.

Now, to make them a viable option, i was considering the following changes:

A: In regards to double weapons, you can substitute your strenght score for your dex score when checking if you qualify for the two-weapon-fighting chain.

Pro: With high strenght, you can "dual-wield" double-weapons as they are supposed to be.
Con: Rogues with high strenght will be scary.

B: When enchanting double weapons, the enchantment costs 1.5 times the regular price, but applies to both sides of the weapon individually.(meaning a +1 flaming on one side and +1 frost on the other side is possible for a total price of 8000*1.5 or 12k gold)

Pro: It's locked into one weapon(unlike with two weapons where you can easily exchange one for something else while keeping the other), and cheaper for this weapon.
Con: Monks flurrying with a quarter staff, possibly?

I can't really decide between A and B. I know double-weapons as they are do have SOME flexibility, but obviously, by far not enough to make them a viable choice either in groups i DM or in ones i play in.

I'd like to somehow push them in a way that makes them more "playable" without breaking them. For many, you also need exotic weapon proficiency first, and the effects are doubtful, currently.
(See two-bladed sword...1d8/1d8, 19-20/x2...only difference to dual-wielding longswords is that the off-hand is considered light. But you can't switch for a shield, use a different off-hand weapon(for material to overcome DR, or because you found a great shortsword) and for THOSE classes that get dex high enough to fully take advantage of this dual-wield, you usually want finessable weapons, for that, say +4 to hit you'd get from your dex over your abyssmal strenght(so even dual-wielding rapiers with no "light" offhand would have better hit chances than the two-bladed-sword)

Thanks for pointing out obvious faults i overlooked on my ideas, or stating your own ideas if you have/had any.

Even a useful build(20 point buy) with double-weapons in the current way of them working would be appreciated.(Possibly with weapon spezialication and power attack, they are viable in some way?)

This just because it game up in a game recently, i know there has been threads, but i'd like to have a clarified answer for my player.

The Beast Size spell do NOT work on a "per-size" basis, but absolute.

So a Huge Creature casting Beast shape 1 still gets the chance to go medium or small creature.
It's not "same size creature or 1 size smaller".

The situation was this::
The high level party(especially said character) seriously offended a cloud giant NPC with wizard levels(keeping in lore that they should take the path of arcane or divine caster, despite 12 int/cha as base).

As they are on the same team, nothing more happened at that time.

Now, the cloud giant decided to get a message across to the offending character and "beast shape 2"'d via a scroll, into a house cat near the inn the characters were staying at. He scratched on the window with a little note in it's mouth, the char opened the window and lifted up the kitty, which proceeded to jump into his face(dropping the note).

Bite in the surprise round and full attack after winning initiative for
2 claws +23 (1d2+11), bite +23 (1d3+11), followed by a 5 foot step out of the window, running off into the woods.

Now, the intent was not to kill or maim the char, and he survived quite easily, it was just a way to say "Mess with me again and you'll regret that" which was also written on the note, signed by the giant.

The player of the char with scratchmarks in his face later wanted to learn how this tiny cat could do that damage, when i revealed how, he got all, lets say, bitter, and accussed me that the polymorph spells as written are clearly supposed to be for medium casters and the written intent is that different-sized casters use their own base size to deduct which sizes give which boni.

While from a logical standpoint, i'd even agree, from a balance standpoint, i don't. I'd much prefer a huge creature getting +6 size bonus to your Strength, a -4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus from beastshaping into a huge creature, than the same boni from becoming a collosal one.

The player does know better than to doubt DM calls beyond a certain extent as he himself is DM'ing(incidently also a round i play in), so it's not likely it causes any problems, but still i'd like to get this cleared up so he doesn't feel like i "cheated" him.

Also please don't "judge" the action in itself, i assure you, in the given game context, it made perfect sense since it had to do with the earlier offense.

Tarrasque has exquisite Regeneration, as stated in it's description. Nor damage type to overcome it and no effects to instantly kill it:

Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.


Regeneration (Ex):

A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.

Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

Now, the spell


Targets one living creature
Duration 3 rounds
Saving Throw Fortitude partial Spell Resistance yes

This spell extracts the air from the target's lungs, causing swift suffocation. The target can attempt to resist this spell's effects with a Fortitude save-if he succeeds, he is merely staggered for 1 round as he gasps for breath. If the target fails, he immediately begins to suffocate. On the target's next turn, he falls unconscious and is reduced to 0 hit points. One round later, the target drops to -1 hit points and is dying. One round after that, the target dies. Each round, the target can delay that round's effects from occurring by making a successful Fortitude save, but the spell continues for 3 rounds, and each time a target fails his Fortitude save, he moves one step further along the track to suffocation. This spell only affects living creatures that must breathe. It is impossible to defeat the effects of this spell by simply holding one's breath-if the victim fails the initial saving throw, the air in his lungs is extracted.

It's doesn't seem to be an instant death effect, and it doesn't kill instantly.

Also, it has a fixed duration adjustable by:

Extend Spell (Metamagic):

You can make your spells last twice as long.

Benefit: An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat. An extended spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level."

So, purely technical, would it be a reasonable assumption that gathering several moderate level witches/wizards/sorcerers that do nothing except continually cast suffocation(extended where possible) on the tarrasque, would be able to kill it for good?

According to what i found, his regeneration should not work against that spell. It's a far shot, against SR 36 and with a Fortitude Save of 31. But if he fails even one Save, he'll be staggered(greatly increasing survivability of the assaulters) and an extended suffocation gives him 6 chances instead of 3 to fail those saves.
(Mass suffocation, possibly extended with a rod, with higher saves required, may actually have a real shot at this...)

The question is, as said, theoretical. According to RAW, would you be able to kill the Tarrasque this way, by suffocating it, which can't be regenerated?

Despite the chicken thread(which is funny in a ridiculous way), i found myself wondering about this.

The text for "life from a stone" is:

At 11th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal ki OR life force from any creature, not just living creatures. If the monk has at least 1 ki point in his pool, he gains the benefit of life funnel AND steal ki when he confirms a critical hit against any creature or reduces any creature to 0 or fewer hit points. This ability replaces diamond body.

Now, one time its ki OR life force, then life funnel AND steal ki.

What is intended?
Is the benefit of life from a stone "only" that you can also use it against non-living creatures, or is the "main" benefit that you can life force AND ki points simultaneously?


The text for skill sage reads:

Skill Sage(Ex): As a free action, the ranger can roll twice on any one skill check and take the better result. He must have at least 1 rank in that skill to use this ability.

Now, the daily limit is 1/2 ranger level+WIS modifier.

Still it seems weird that you can use it for basically any skill(mostly would do so if you don't have time to take 20, or you can't take 10...that kind of stuff.)

Basically it feels a lot better than blowing a rogue talent for a once/day +1/5 levels reroll limited to one fixed skill(charmer e.g.)...a rogue blowing a talent on this can get 3 diplomacy(e.g.) rerolls at level 10.
A Ranger can get 5+Wis rerolls on any skill he wants.

Now, i was wondering if a ranger "dip" would be nicer with those archetypes.

Going in for 5 Levels you can pickup skill sage, 2 times per day an instant favored enemy at +4/+4 from guide, terrain bond, +5 BaB(for potential prestige classes...horizon walker works nice with terrain bond), plenty of skills and HP, and one combat style feat(going to level 6 means +1 all saves and another combat style feat).

The "instant favored enemy" would add well into later levels and skill sage, while probably limited in its daily uses to about 2-4 applications, will often last for the day.

It feels like quite an ideal jump-start to many of the prestige classes that would otherwise feel poorly because so many class abilites are designed to scale with leveling(think weapon/armor training, or good rage powers, etc...). These abilities seem good, contained in themselves, and well applicable no matter what path you go down.

So far i've tried an arcane archer build, an assassin(skill sage on stealth helps...), dragon disciple, duelist, eldritch knight, horizon walker, master spy(again, skill sage rocks...), chronicler, shadowdancer and stalwart defender.

While not always OPTIMAL, they all turned out to be pretty solid builds with a good bonus from the ranger goodies.

Obviously not for casters, but if you ever wanted to play a one of the above-mentioned...
whats peoples opinions on this? Any other favorites for playing around with not staying core class? (as i see it, "one glove fits all" in that you want boni that stay useful and take them with you into whatever prestige class you go to. A Barbarians Rage, e.g. can be useful, as can sneak attack. in both cases, not going for powergaming, i was less impressed than with the ranger, though. Maybe the abundance of skill checks in our games makes me biased, though. And as always, the usefulness of "x times per day" skills depends a lot on the adventure/DM)

Sorry for the unstructured post, i'd elaborate on my thought process, but it's quite late/early and i'm getting rather sleepy.

Hello dear board,

this's my first post here so please be kind. I specifically registered for this question, as i have not found a talk about this yet.

With the APG out, in our current campaign we are allowed to "reconstruct"(or replace) our characters with the new options available.

Now, my character up to now was a draconic bloodline sorceress(Level 7) mostly focused on blasting with fire spells, planning to eventually load up with a "improved invisibility/dragon form/transformation"-combo(statwise, that could get pretty nasty with the build :P). That being said, up to now she mainly functioned as a blaster, it's not a pure powergaming-group, and despite "controller" being superior, fluffwise and funwise, i went with blaster.

When i looked over the new options, the flame oracle kind of caught my eye.

In a direct comparison:

Hit die: D8 vs D6(oracle wins by an average of 1 HP per level extra)

Skill ranks: 4+int vs 2+int(oracle wins by 2/level, which is huge, because i like having many skills for fluff-reasons...(e.g. current character has high int to have skills left for perform/dance which she got to use ONCE at a ball yet))

Base Attack: Medium progression(oracle) vs slow progression(sorcerer) wins on touch spells-

Saves: All the same, stalemate.

Spells per day/Known: Same number of spells known/castable/bonus spells, + all cure spells for oracle(so oracle wins here, too). And it gets bonus spells a level early.

Spell failure: Oracle can wear a mithral full plate plus heavy shield without spell wins.

Curse versus Bloodline Arcana: i guess that'll depend on preference.

Revelations versus bloodline powers: grow claws(with a low HP/Bab) or get an equivalent of 4 feats(cinder dance: fleet*2 now, nimble moves, acrobatic steps later) decision...i'll go with revelations. The fire resistance from molten skin goes higher, faster than the one from bloodline, firebreath and the like are stronger for sorcerer, but quite situational...the capstone is better imho for sorc, but i don't know if we ever get that far.

If going with a oracle, i'd think the lame-curse+cinder dance would do nicely...exactly the same speed, and up to level 15, over time, you'll learn to ignore up to 20 feet of difficult terrain, are immune to fatigue/exhaustion and are never slowed down by encumbrance/armor...

All in all, the only thing that seems to be going for the sorcerer here is the spell list, which, admittedly, is tempting.

But i am quite unsure if that spell list truly compensates for more skill ranks+HP, armored casting, the ability to cure if needed(also big because our only party healer right now is a paladin), subjectively better "bloodline boni" while still allowing a reasonable "blasting" build(Fireball lower level, later maybe Harm or Implosion?).

(+plus form of flame lasts 1 hour/level, pretty much should last for a daily dungeon crawl, and gives, in medium form, +4 dex(+2 ac/reflex save), +3 natural armor(almost same as bloodline) and, in later incarnations, scales well with immunity to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks and giving DR 5/-...for 1 hour per level...

Basically the build is not supposed to be a super-controller, anyway(for which sorcerer list would be better). But i am quite unsure.

The idea of a armored, skillful flame-entity buffing allies and blasting enemies is enticing to me(not planning on using weapons at all), but at the same time i feel like i'm missing something here...(except for some glorious combos like pit/iron wall)

if someone would enlighten me as to wether i would be well-adviced to switch or point out if i indeed missed something, i'd be very thankful. It just seems sorcerer is so much weaker in everything compared to the oracle except for the (admittedly much better) spell list...