I've updated these a bit after some analysis. First I'll post the criteria that I used for the missing Road Maps (based on the existing ones and supplemented by looking at some NPC examples). Next, I'll post the Road-maps as tables so they are formatted consistently. I still want to look at more example NPCs to hone some of the stats. And finally, I will look closer at class abilities and feats. Ability Modifiers
Perception
Skills
AC
Saves
HP
Strike Attack and Damage
Spell DC
Thanks for the feedback! I agree 100%, a standard format would make this a lot clearer... I am working from the core class road maps in the GMG:
Quote: Any statistic that isn’t specifically listed can use moderate numbers. Which is inconsistent itself, because they also use Moderate stats in several roadmaps. And they aren't very balanced, some roadmaps have more High and Extreme stats, so you might want to give them a Low in something that isn't listed. Maybe, as part of this little project, I'll expand them to include all stats following the general guidelines for creating NPCs/Creatures in the GMG... when I have the time!
Hi all, I've done some digging, but despite seeing community interest and an official Paizo response agreeing that it's a good idea, I haven't seen Class Road Maps for classes outside the Core rules. Please, LMK if I'm wrong as it will save a bit of work! If you're unfamiliar, class road maps are a shortcut for making an NPC that is an approximation of a PC class. So I figured the good people here could help me with the task. Below is my attempt at starting road maps for all the neglected classes. Based on the existing maps in the GMG, I'm pretty confident about my stats for perception, HP, primary ability and skill; I'm less confident on AC, secondary abilities and skills. And in most cases I feel the saves, attacks, damage and feats need work as I couldn't find much rhyme or reason in the design behind the existing road maps. Gunslinger
Gunslinger way, feats associated with combat style (Sword and Pistol or Dual-Weapon Reload); Feats 2nd: Quick Draw; 4th: Paired Shots, Running Reload; 6th: Way Feat Inventor
Inventor innovation, modifications to gear to reflect modifications; Feats 1st: Tamper, Haphazard Repair; 4th: Megaton Strike; 6th: Clockwork Celerity; 8th: Overdrive Ally Investigator
Investigator methodology, Strategic Strike, Devise a Stratagem; Feats 1st: Known Weaknesses; 2nd: Athletic Strategist; 4th: Scalpel’s Point; Strategic Assessment; 8th: Blind Fight Magus
Magus hybrid studies abilities and conflux spell; Feats 1st: Raise a Tome; 2nd: Expansive Spellstrike; Spell Parry; 4th: Hybrid Study feat; Steady Spellcasting; 6th: Attack of Opportunity Oracle
Oracle mystery benefit; Feats 1st: Reach Spell; 2nd: Divine Aegis; 4th: Bespell Weapon; 6th: Steady Spellcasting Psychic
Psyche action; Feats 1st: Counter Thought; 2nd: Psi Burst, Warp Space; 4th Psi Strikes, Violent Unleash; 6th: Inertial Barrier, Steady Spellcasting Summoner
Summoner Feats 1st: Energy Heart; 2nd: Reinforce Eidolon; 4th: Defend Summoner, Tandem Movement; 6th: Eidolon's Opportunity, Tandem Strike Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler Feats 1st: Focused Fascination, Nimble Dodge; 2nd; Antagonize, Charmed Life; 4th: Impaling Finisher, Twin Parry; 6th: Thaumaturge
Thaumaturge initiate benefit; Feats 1st: Divine Disharmony; 2nd: Esoteric Warden, Turn Away Misfortune; 4th: Instructive Strike Witch
Witch Feats 1st: Counterspell; 2nd: Basic Lesson; Comments/suggestions are encouraged and I'll update these to incorporate input. Thanks!
Yeah, this came up during downtime when a player was repeatedly failing checks to identify, and after a few days they asked if they could just take it somewhere. When I saw someone on reddit or something suggesting this complicated system of paying based on level and requiring a roll, I wanted to see what others were doing. Glad I did, thanks! I'll probably still limit it by the level of the settlement (if you can't buy it there, they probably won't know what it is) and if there's a cursed item, they'll mistake it for a benign object.
Cheers! Thanks for the suggestions.
Ascalaphus, how hard is it to adjust a PF1 influence encounter to PF2? I'm reading Hell's Rebels for the crimson masquerade bit, and somewhere I have ultimate intrigue or whatever it is with influence rules.
Thanks everyone!
So, I plan to use the Research Subsystem to help further some "B plots" while my players are taking some Downtime in Escadar.
I love Gabriel Pickard's stuff, and I honestly have $100s worth of his stuff on roll20 (no exaggeration!), but I find it too detailed to match the maps in the adventure paths. For Plaguestone I redid all of the maps using his tiles, but it was at the beginning of the pandemic when I had more time... Wow, you're not kidding, forgotten adventures looks like official pathfinder flip mats. I'm trying to match the style in the adventure paths, though, which is a little more cartoony. Unfortunately, I want something I can have more control over than either of these options. Maybe I could make a map using Gabriel Pickard's slap-down town, then apply some filters in photoshop, but those are a larger scale. I'll keep chugging along on making my own style in CC3+ for now. Thanks for the suggestions!
Does anyone have or know of a resource for making city or overland maps in the Pathfinder style? I run an online game, so I use more maps than I might at the table. I'm a bit anal about presenting a cohesive visual style, so when I need to make a supplemental map I try to match the published content I'm using. For example, I'm running Extinction Curse on Roll20, and there's no Escadar map, so I'm making my own. In the past I've used Photopea (similar to Photoshop) to alter existing maps, but it's a lot of work. I recently purchased Campaign Cartographer in a humble bundle, and some of the existing map styles look very similar to maps used in games by another publisher. Many of the Pathfinder city maps have a similar style, and seem to reuse assets as well, so maybe there's a Pathfinder style?
Castilliano wrote: Like w/ axes, clubs' Critical Specialization effect applies to all targets you Strike w/ a critical. So abilities like Swipe can land two crits w/ one roll, and for clubs you can apply 10' each to both (or 5'). Oh! I read somewhere else that the axe effect only applied to one target. So I guess that should apply to all weapons and swipe: a pick would deal extra damage to both targets on a crit etc. My party just hit level 5, and two players with swipe got crit specialization so I want to make sure I have it all straight. Thanks!
Hi,
Club crit effect:
Swipe:
Would it only apply to one target, or would you allow it to push two targets 5 feet?
Moloch1066 wrote: The Tattoo Artist feat says you get formulas for four magical tattoos of 2nd level or lower.... correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't four magical tattoos of second level anywhere I can find. So, the answer I got last time was to wait for Grand Bazaar. Now that I have it, I still don't see 4 magical tattoos 2nd level or lower. So the tattoo artist loses quite a bit of it's usefulness if you don't get any formulas.
Well, for anyone who cares, I found the type of abstract card game rules I was looking for in the PF Society Quest: Port Peril Pub Crawl. There's actually a lot of good subsystems in the society quests! Hope it's ok to share this here (if not, obviously I will delete): The Watchtower (Encounter A): Pulling out a deck of cards, Fane invites the PCs to play a game of High Tide, a pirate gambling game where cards are passed face-down while players try to lie about what cards they’ve “added to the tide.” A PC can attempt a Games Lore check (to win fairly), a Thievery check (to surreptitiously hide cards up their sleeve), or a Deception check (to bluff Fane into thinking they have better cards). The game is played in three rounds, and a different PC must attempt the check for each round. The DCs of these checks are 15, 16, and 17 (18, 19, and 20 in Subtier 3–4), respectively.
RE Gambling: I looked at the Edgewatch rules (as they appear on Archives of Nethys https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1452). I was looking for something more abstract, rather than actually playing a side game of poker with a different name, but I might use the game names for flavor. RE Influence: I think this will work pretty nicely! I may incorporate some elements of the Infiltration Subsystem. Preparation activities like Forgeries, Disguises, and Bribes could feature heavily in many classic scams. And complications like suspicions being raised, bringing along a friend to a meeting. A lot will depend on the type of confidence scheme the player wants to try, but I have a good starting point. Thanks for all the input!
Thanks Wheldrake, if you're really interested I will write something up and post it when I'm ready. In the meantime, I think I'm going to set up a high-stakes poker game. Are there any existing subsystems for gambling/gaming? I'm thinking something simple, 3 rounds, Deception/Thievery to cheat, relevant Lore for strategy, maybe Perception to call a bluff. Success=1 victory point, critical=2VP, the player with the most points at the end wins?
So sorry, as I expect this question has been asked a lot, but I keep seeing contradicting answers and would like the "official" ruling. I understand that Actions with the Attack trait (Strike, Trip, Shove, etc) count towards the multiple attack penalty (MAP). What I'm not sure of (and have seen various answers to) is if the Athletics check associated with a Trip or Shove counts as an "attack roll". Do they suffer from the MAP?
Thanks!
For anyone interested, here is a recap one of my players wrote:
Had a session 0 a few weeks ago, and ran my first session of The Show Must Go On last night! I started with a quick intro scene where Myron strolled through camp and checked on everyone just so they'd get to know him before he died, and it definitely added to the shock factor. For the performance, I lowered the starting Anticipation to 12 based on recommendations from this thread (I still wanted it to be tough, but not impossible). They ended up failing with a final Excitement of 13 and Anticipation of 15. They earned the extra excitement from the vipers, but the healer wasn't comfortable making the Kanbali perform without a net... which is too bad bcs that would have gotten them a critical success!! For those who crunched the numbers, did you take into account Hero Points when determining the odds of getting to 15 Excitement? They helped a bit for my group. What really hurt was that they had 3 critical trick checks. About halfway through, one of the players asked if they could Send in The Clowns to reduce a crit to a regular success. I'm going to allow for that moving forward, as it is not a huge alteration to the rule mechanically and makes logical sense (the clowns distract from the amazing performance). The session ran roughly 5 hours, including my intro scene the circus performance and examining Myron's body. I stopped them before exploring the camp so we could have a quick check-in as it was our first session (and many new players to Pathfinder). All-in-all, it was an awesome game! We had a ton of fun and I can't wait for next time!
Hi, I just started the Extinction Curse AP and have a player who wants to be a sort of conman who uses the circus to spot potential marks. I thought it might be fun to have a subsystem for pulling off a con job. Something similar to the Infiltration or Influence subsystems in the GMG. Is there anything close to this in an existing adventure path or other supplement (I'll even look at 1st ed. stuff), or should I just come up with my own subsystem using these as a guide?
Yeah, honestly I'm no stranger to modifying encounters in a published adventure, so when I start my full campaign I will have Low/Moderate/Severe variants for each encounter and adjust as I go. I'm not doing that with Plaguestone because I like to get a feel for how things run as presented before I tinker. This conversation is helping a lot. Ascalaphus wrote: Whatever playstyle is most enjoyable is the right one. As a player I like realism and challenge, and that's why I brought the question to the forum, to see a wider picture. Ultimately I will have a conversation with my players during session zero, because you're right, I need to find something that's fun for the whole group.As Captain Morgan's post illustrates, my players may resent having a constant ticking clock if they didn't buy into the idea from the start.
Ascalaphus wrote: You mentioned you're running Plaguestone. I recently ran it, and I think part of the problems you're having are because of how that adventure is designed, not with the system per se. That's good to hear. I'm using Plaguestone to get familiar with the system before I start the Extinction Curse with my main group. And maybe you'll know the specific encounter I referenced above: Spoiler:
they're at the Pen and just defeated the orcs, horse, and rats outside. They're resting in the yard before entering the cave. Captain Morgan wrote: I struggled with this myself. For a while I was using a device called s tension pool which had mixed results. At least one of my players really resented it, although said player resented most things that didn't go his way. Ideally, variety is important and you should just rely on what makes sense in the context of the story. If you want to chain a bunch of encounters, make them easier encounters or evaluate if the players have ways to buy time. You read the Angry GM I'm guessing? :) That's actually the sort of mechanic I was considering when I started this thread!
Ascalaphus wrote: It also caused complaints from GMs (and players) about it being unrealistic, that the plot just kinda had to cool its heels waiting for the players to regain their spells. Yeah, ultimately this is my biggest issue. My players just defeated some guards outside the bad guys lair and want to rest for 2 hours, does it feel realistic that none of the other bad guys come or go in that time? I guess I could always leave it to chance and make a roll. Ascalaphus wrote: 2E fights are balanced much more as standalones. I agree 100%, but I think I'm still getting used to it. PF combat still feels challenging even letting my players heal, while in D&D combat was mostly a cake walk in the tea park. Ascalaphus wrote: The rules for Treat Wounds are kinda specific because they want to give you the tools to do that. (Also, most of the other post-combat activities like repairing shields and identifying loot take 10 minutes too. That's just convenient.) And I do really like that fairly uniform 10 minute time block. Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I think I'll continue to only limit rest if time's an important factor for the adventure (ie. "We have to stop the ritual!"), but now I feel a little more confident about it.
Thanks for the input! I hadn't considered that it might change as they level. From the 5 games we've played, letting them heal fully hasn't had a huge impact (there seems to be a lot of severe encounters in Plaguestone for such a low level adventure), but the champion has already taken the Ward Medic feat to allow speed healing and I don't want her to feel like it was a wasted feat. One week per level is actually exactly what I've given them so far. I had to make it really clear that they shouldn't worry about the BBEG destroying the town while they retrained, though.
I'm just curious how you all prevent the "5 minute adventuring day" problem in your games. I've never really had a problem with it, but my group is new to PF and finding combat more challenging then they're used to. I don't mind letting them spend an hour or so to let the Champion refocus/lay on hands enough to get everyone back to max HP, but at what point is it too much? I know it mostly depends on the situation, but I hate making arbitrary decisions, so I'd like to hear how it goes in other people's games. On a similar note, I'm thinking of adopting something like the organized play rules for "earning" downtime days to strike a balance between too little/too much downtime (I'll adjust based on my player's preferences, but the organized play rules seem like a good baseline). Does anyone else use a system like this for casual games, or do I just have a stick up my butt from too many years of broken game systems?!
Thanks for your help so far Joan! It seems to have happened again on 10/17/20, this time with Siege of the Dinosaurs (Extinction Curse AP 4). I think I know what happened though: both of these items were gifts. So do you not get the sync for gifts? The roll20 sync page says "access to PDFs on Paizo.com for items you **own** on Roll20" not "items you buy", so I didn't consider it might be an issue.
First off, I already emailed about this on Tuesday, but I saw how backed up you are and figured this is the better way to go. I hope that's ok! Anyway, here's my issue:
Did something go wrong, or is this item not available for sync or something? Let me know if you need my roll20 account info. Thanks so much for your help!
Quote: When you target a creature that’s concealed from you, you must attempt a DC 5 flat check before you roll to determine your effect. Quote: The concealed condition doesn’t change which of the main categories of detection apply to the creature. So you could also be Hidden: Quote: When targeting a hidden creature, before you roll to determine your effect, you must attempt a DC 11 flat check. Ok, it doesn't make sense to me that you'd have to roll 2 flat checks, but I don't see why not. Sorry if this is obvious, been a long week.
Oh boy, I shouldn't have been so quick to accept an answer! This is more in line with what I originally thought. shroudb wrote:
So back to my original question, it shouldn't matter the damage type that gets prevented because immunities/weaknesses/resistances were already applied BEFORE the damage would trigger Shield Block. I think I got it now (for real)! And thanks to shroud and Taja for the help!
Thanks for the reply! So, putting the two scenarios together (which is what actually prompted the questions), what if I use a wood shield (hardness 3) to shield block an attack from a draconic barbarian that deals 4 bludgeoning plus 4 additional fire damage? It sounds like you're saying it would block 3 bludgeoning and 3 fire, but then 1 bludgeoning and 1 fire would be dealt to my shield and myself?
Just want to clarify a couple questions from a practice session: Draconic rage:
Shield Block
If a strike deals more than one TYPE of damage, how do you decide which damage is prevented and which damage is remaining? Granted, this won't matter 99% of the time, but I'm curious. Thanks!
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