I just finished updating my Roll20 PF2 macros for the remaster, and I figured for all the time I spent working on them I might as well share it with the community. There are macros for basic actions, skill actions, creature abilities, subsystem activities and a few other things and formatted using the Pathfinder character sheet roll template. As the GM I add them as universal macros, so if I just type `#balance and hit enter it'll pop up the rules for the Balance skill action. As a player you could add a new button under actions, then paste the macro in the "description" (you might just want to edit the "name" and "actions" inputs for the button).
Let me know if you find this useful and I'll continue to build on it. I also have some more complicated macros like a three dimensional range calculator that I could share.
I've updated these a bit after some analysis. First I'll post the criteria that I used for the missing Road Maps (based on the existing ones and supplemented by looking at some NPC examples). Next, I'll post the Road-maps as tables so they are formatted consistently. I still want to look at more example NPCs to hone some of the stats. And finally, I will look closer at class abilities and feats.
Ability Modifiers
Use High for the class’ Key Ability modifier, Moderate +/-1 for one or two secondary abilities, and Low or Lower (+0/-1) for the rest.
Perception
Start with Low. If the class has Expert training in Perception at 1st level, or Wis is their secondary stat, bump it up to Moderate. If Wis is High, or the class has Expert training and access to precision damage, Perception is High.
Skills
Any skills granted by their class are typically High and those granted by a subclass can be Moderate to High depending on the Key Ability. One or two additional skills to support their role can be Moderate or even High if they use the Key Ability. A handful of skills in the Low or lower range can be added if they make sense to the NPC.
AC
Low AC typically fits spellcasters. Most martial NPCs use High. Bump it up by a level if they use a shield. The rest are Moderate.
Saves
Low Fort is common for most spellcasters. Some may balance this with a High Will. Higher AC from armor is often offset by Low Ref. Dex, Con, or Wis should inform the corresponding save. No more than one High and/or one Low save. The rest are Moderate +/-1.
HP
HP closely corresponds to the class' HP per level. Low for 6, Low to Moderate for 8, Moderate for 10, and High for 12.
Strike Attack and Damage
Spellcasters usually have a Low Strike Bonus, highly specialized martial classes may be High, and all others are Moderate. Strike damage is usually Low (or lower) for casters, High for martial classes, and moderate for the rest, though Extreme damage is possible using class abilities like Rage.
Spell DC
Spellcasters typically have High to Extreme Spell DC and Attack Bonus. More combat oriented casters will stay closer to the High value. Spells granted by ancestry may have moderate modifiers.
I agree 100%, a standard format would make this a lot clearer... I am working from the core class road maps in the GMG:
Quote:
Any statistic that isn’t specifically listed can use moderate numbers.
Which is inconsistent itself, because they also use Moderate stats in several roadmaps. And they aren't very balanced, some roadmaps have more High and Extreme stats, so you might want to give them a Low in something that isn't listed.
Maybe, as part of this little project, I'll expand them to include all stats following the general guidelines for creating NPCs/Creatures in the GMG... when I have the time!
I've done some digging, but despite seeing community interest and an official Paizo response agreeing that it's a good idea, I haven't seen Class Road Maps for classes outside the Core rules. Please, LMK if I'm wrong as it will save a bit of work!
If you're unfamiliar, class road maps are a shortcut for making an NPC that is an approximation of a PC class.
So I figured the good people here could help me with the task. Below is my attempt at starting road maps for all the neglected classes. Based on the existing maps in the GMG, I'm pretty confident about my stats for perception, HP, primary ability and skill; I'm less confident on AC, secondary abilities and skills. And in most cases I feel the saves, attacks, damage and feats need work as I couldn't find much rhyme or reason in the design behind the existing road maps.
Gunslinger
Low to moderate HP; high skill based on Way; high Dex; high AC; low Will; high Reflex; moderate attack and extreme damage with guns; Slinger’s Reload; Initial Deed
Gunslinger way, feats associated with combat style (Sword and Pistol or Dual-Weapon Reload); Feats 2nd: Quick Draw; 4th: Paired Shots, Running Reload; 6th: Way Feat
Inventor
Low Perception; low to moderate HP; high Crafting; high Int; high AC (Extreme if Armor Innovation); Overdrive, Explode, Shield Block; add a construct to the encounter for construct innovation;
Investigator
Low to moderate HP; high Society, moderate skill based on Methodology, plus more skills than usual; high Int; low to moderate AC; high Will; moderate attack and low to moderate damage before strategic strike plus high or extreme damage with strategic strike; Strategic Strike, Devise a Stratagem, abilities from Methodology
Magus
Low Perception; low to moderate HP; high Arcana; high Str or Dex; high AC; low accuracy; high to extreme spell DC; prepared arcane spellcasting as a magus of their level; conflux spells; Spellstrike, Arcane Cascade
Magus hybrid studies abilities and conflux spell; Feats 1st: Raise a Tome; 2nd: Expansive Spellstrike; Spell Parry; 4th: Hybrid Study feat; Steady Spellcasting; 6th: Attack of Opportunity
Oracle
Low Perception; low to moderate HP; high Religion; moderate mystery skill; high Cha; high Will, low Reflex; low accuracy; high to extreme spell DC; spontaneous divine spellcasting as an oracle of their level; revelation spells
Psychic
Low Perception; low HP; high Occult; high Int or Cha; low AC; low Fortitude, high Will; low accuracy; high to extreme spell DC; spontaneous occult spellcasting as a psychic of their level; psi cantrips and amps, Unleash Psyche, Conscious mind and Unconscious mind
Summoner
Low Perception; moderate to high Eidolon skills; high Cha; low AC; low Reflex; high Will; spontaneous spellcasting (determined by the type of eidolon) as a summoner of their level; link spells; add an eidolon to the encounter of the appropriate type; Manifest Eidolon, Share Senses, Act Together
Summoner Feats 1st: Energy Heart; 2nd: Reinforce Eidolon; 4th: Defend Summoner, Tandem Movement; 6th: Eidolon's Opportunity, Tandem Strike
Swashbuckler
High Dex; high Acrobatics and skill based on Style; high AC; high Reflex; low Will; moderate attack and low to moderate damage without panache plus high or extreme damage with panache; Confident Finisher,
Thaumaturge
Low to moderate HP; moderate Arcana, Nature, Occult, and Religion; high Cha; high AC; high Fortitude; low Reflex; Exploit Vulnerability, Implement, Implement’s Empowerment
Witch
Low Perception; low HP; high skill based on Patron; high Int; low AC; low Fortitude; low accuracy; high to extreme spell DC; prepared spellcasting (determined by their patron) as a witch of their level; hexes; add a familiar to the encounter
Witch Feats 1st: Counterspell; 2nd: Basic Lesson;
Comments/suggestions are encouraged and I'll update these to incorporate input. Thanks!
Yeah, this came up during downtime when a player was repeatedly failing checks to identify, and after a few days they asked if they could just take it somewhere. When I saw someone on reddit or something suggesting this complicated system of paying based on level and requiring a roll, I wanted to see what others were doing. Glad I did, thanks!
I'll probably still limit it by the level of the settlement (if you can't buy it there, they probably won't know what it is) and if there's a cursed item, they'll mistake it for a benign object.
Cheers! Thanks for the suggestions.
I've been interested in Ruby Phoenix, so this is just the incentive I needed to spend the dough (to my point earlier, if this stuff were easier to find, I'd spend more money paizo!).
Ascalaphus, how hard is it to adjust a PF1 influence encounter to PF2? I'm reading Hell's Rebels for the crimson masquerade bit, and somewhere I have ultimate intrigue or whatever it is with influence rules.
New subsystem, same old problem: this time I'm looking for Influence NPC blocks. I know Mountain of Sea and Sky has a dragon, and there's the example in the GMG. Anyone know of any others?
Thanks everyone!
I just bought The Devil-Wrought Disappearance.
I really wish there was some sort of index of all the PFS scenarios or something. I think they're full of a lot of good content you can easily slot into a homebrew game or adapt to a side quest, but it's hard to figure out what's in each, and I can't afford to buy them all!
So, I plan to use the Research Subsystem to help further some "B plots" while my players are taking some Downtime in Escadar.
I appreciate the sample Library in the GMG, but it's a bit too fanciful for my needs. Are there any other example libraries out there? Or similar skill challenges in an AP or PFS adventure? Even if it's 1st edition, I'm mostly looking for some inspiration to spur my imagination.
Yeah, the learning curve is steep, but I figure if I get a style I like, I should be good to go. Right now I'm basically mixing and matching, but schley and 13th age are definitely in the mix.
That's a really good suggestion to check the CC3 forums.
I love Gabriel Pickard's stuff, and I honestly have $100s worth of his stuff on roll20 (no exaggeration!), but I find it too detailed to match the maps in the adventure paths. For Plaguestone I redid all of the maps using his tiles, but it was at the beginning of the pandemic when I had more time...
Wow, you're not kidding, forgotten adventures looks like official pathfinder flip mats. I'm trying to match the style in the adventure paths, though, which is a little more cartoony.
Unfortunately, I want something I can have more control over than either of these options. Maybe I could make a map using Gabriel Pickard's slap-down town, then apply some filters in photoshop, but those are a larger scale.
I'll keep chugging along on making my own style in CC3+ for now. Thanks for the suggestions!
Does anyone have or know of a resource for making city or overland maps in the Pathfinder style?
I run an online game, so I use more maps than I might at the table. I'm a bit anal about presenting a cohesive visual style, so when I need to make a supplemental map I try to match the published content I'm using. For example, I'm running Extinction Curse on Roll20, and there's no Escadar map, so I'm making my own.
In the past I've used Photopea (similar to Photoshop) to alter existing maps, but it's a lot of work. I recently purchased Campaign Cartographer in a humble bundle, and some of the existing map styles look very similar to maps used in games by another publisher. Many of the Pathfinder city maps have a similar style, and seem to reuse assets as well, so maybe there's a Pathfinder style?
Like w/ axes, clubs' Critical Specialization effect applies to all targets you Strike w/ a critical. So abilities like Swipe can land two crits w/ one roll, and for clubs you can apply 10' each to both (or 5').
Oh! I read somewhere else that the axe effect only applied to one target.
So I guess that should apply to all weapons and swipe: a pick would deal extra damage to both targets on a crit etc.
My party just hit level 5, and two players with swipe got crit specialization so I want to make sure I have it all straight.
Hi,
I've seen a lot of discussion of Swipe and the Axe critical specialization effect, but what about clubs?
Club crit effect:
You knock the target away from you up to 10 feet (you choose the distance). This is forced movement.
Swipe:
You make a wide, arcing swing. Make a single melee Strike and compare the attack roll result to the ACs of up to two foes, each of whom must be within your melee reach and adjacent to the other. Roll damage only once and apply it to each creature you hit. A Swipe counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty. If you’re using a weapon with the sweep trait, its modifier applies to all your Swipe attacks.
Would it only apply to one target, or would you allow it to push two targets 5 feet?
The Tattoo Artist feat says you get formulas for four magical tattoos of 2nd level or lower.... correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't four magical tattoos of second level anywhere I can find.
So, the answer I got last time was to wait for Grand Bazaar. Now that I have it, I still don't see 4 magical tattoos 2nd level or lower. So the tattoo artist loses quite a bit of it's usefulness if you don't get any formulas.
The Tattoo Artist feat says you get formulas for four magical tattoos of 2nd level or lower.... correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't four magical tattoos of second level anywhere I can find.
Well, for anyone who cares, I found the type of abstract card game rules I was looking for in the PF Society Quest: Port Peril Pub Crawl. There's actually a lot of good subsystems in the society quests!
Hope it's ok to share this here (if not, obviously I will delete):
The Watchtower (Encounter A):
Pulling out a deck of cards, Fane invites the PCs to play a game of High Tide, a pirate gambling game where cards are passed face-down while players try to lie about what cards they’ve “added to the tide.” A PC can attempt a Games Lore check (to win fairly), a Thievery check (to surreptitiously hide cards up their sleeve), or a Deception check (to bluff Fane into thinking they have better cards). The game is played in three rounds, and a different PC must attempt the check for each round. The DCs of these checks are 15, 16, and 17 (18, 19, and 20 in Subtier 3–4), respectively.
RE Gambling: I looked at the Edgewatch rules (as they appear on Archives of Nethys https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1452). I was looking for something more abstract, rather than actually playing a side game of poker with a different name, but I might use the game names for flavor.
RE Influence: I think this will work pretty nicely! I may incorporate some elements of the Infiltration Subsystem. Preparation activities like Forgeries, Disguises, and Bribes could feature heavily in many classic scams. And complications like suspicions being raised, bringing along a friend to a meeting.
A lot will depend on the type of confidence scheme the player wants to try, but I have a good starting point. Thanks for all the input!
Thanks Wheldrake, if you're really interested I will write something up and post it when I'm ready.
In the meantime, I think I'm going to set up a high-stakes poker game. Are there any existing subsystems for gambling/gaming? I'm thinking something simple, 3 rounds, Deception/Thievery to cheat, relevant Lore for strategy, maybe Perception to call a bluff. Success=1 victory point, critical=2VP, the player with the most points at the end wins?
For anyone interested, here is a recap one of my players wrote:
Ack the bard, Aidyl the cleric, Alaska the barbarian, Redmaw the rogue, and Zanah the barbarian have found themselves working together in the Circus of Wayward Wonders, and it’s the night of the biggest show this underdog carnival has ever performed! Everything must go perfectly! Good thing they have Myron “Thunder” Stendhal to guide them as ringmaster; under his watchful eye and keen sense of showmanship, nothing can possibly go awry. ...Whoops. He’s dead.
With a lifeless gnome backstage and a full house in the bleachers, this circus is truly about to become wayward. Luckily, Ack remembers the old adage: the show must continue! He galvanizes the crew to put on a performance so good, we’ll hear Myron clapping from Elysium!
First up: the clowns mug for the audience with Bardoph the bear, then Redmaw comes in and literally steals the show. The crowd goes wild at the sight of a bear chasing and nipping the goblin, knowing of course Redmaw isn’t in any real danger (right?). Looks like the CoWW is off to a good start! Unfortunately, a few ruffians in the audience sour the mood. Ack intimidates the first one with some well-aimed taunts, and off he slinks. Aidyl beguiles the next into joining the show with Axel’s amazing aviary, and then subtly suggests he fly the coop. Zanah and Alaska take turns taunting the third, ultimately making him punch his own stupid face to the hoots of a delighted crowd. Unfortunately, the ruffians still managed to be a distraction, and the Durable Duo isn’t able to drum up any more excitement for the rest of their act.
Before the next performance can start, Redmaw notices a disturbance in the crowd. Sneaky snakes are slithering through the stands! Redmaw calms the audience and battles the snakes with help from Zanah. Ultimately Elizia the snake charmer does her thing and shoos the danger noodles away, assuring the party that they’re not snakes from her act (which soon follows). Hmm. Something is amiss, and Redmaw and Alaska decide to spend the rest of the show patrolling the stands.
Ack does his best to keep the show running, despite venomous vipers and egomaniacal escape artists. The show launches into its big finish: fire juggling, water tanks, risley acrobatics! The crowd loves the performances, but maybe would have loved it more with an aerial act. Unfortunately, the Kanbali Family’s nets have been destroyed, and overall the circus ends up as “close but no cigar” on the success scale.
As the crowds disperse, Redmaw notices an intoxicated couple picking fights in the stands. They are ready to rumble, and things quickly get out of hand, despite Alaska’s attempts to scare them straight. The entire party moves into the fray, and Ack gets knocked out in the ensuing chaos. Luckily Aidyl is ready with some healing, as well as some impressive magic. Redmaw subdues Rhovo, but an enraged Zanah continues to batter at Jaleen: taking her out just because she can. The crowd is horrified, despite Aidyl’s healing of the intoxicated brawlers and Ack’s fancy concertina-ing.
The mood is glum backstage, as the circus realizes Myron’s death was more than just a heart attack. The poor man has been bitten by vipers, likely the very same ones that were in the stands. It’ll be impossible to track them now, nor the rats that have apparently been scuttling backstage… these were the culprits who chewed the nets of the Featherfall Five! Redmaw stakes out Myron’s caravan, noting the lights are on but the door is locked. The party does some preliminary interrogation, but it really seems like no one had special access to Myron nor wished him harm. The party can’t deny the obvious: this has Mistress Dusklight’s stink all over it. But she’s way the hells in Escadar… so how and why would she bother a puny show like this? The party better find out fast, because the show must continue!
Had a session 0 a few weeks ago, and ran my first session of The Show Must Go On last night!
I started with a quick intro scene where Myron strolled through camp and checked on everyone just so they'd get to know him before he died, and it definitely added to the shock factor.
For the performance, I lowered the starting Anticipation to 12 based on recommendations from this thread (I still wanted it to be tough, but not impossible). They ended up failing with a final Excitement of 13 and Anticipation of 15. They earned the extra excitement from the vipers, but the healer wasn't comfortable making the Kanbali perform without a net... which is too bad bcs that would have gotten them a critical success!!
For those who crunched the numbers, did you take into account Hero Points when determining the odds of getting to 15 Excitement? They helped a bit for my group.
What really hurt was that they had 3 critical trick checks. About halfway through, one of the players asked if they could Send in The Clowns to reduce a crit to a regular success. I'm going to allow for that moving forward, as it is not a huge alteration to the rule mechanically and makes logical sense (the clowns distract from the amazing performance).
The session ran roughly 5 hours, including my intro scene the circus performance and examining Myron's body. I stopped them before exploring the camp so we could have a quick check-in as it was our first session (and many new players to Pathfinder). All-in-all, it was an awesome game! We had a ton of fun and I can't wait for next time!
I hadn't thought of that! I might use that for a basis of how much money they make. I'd still want some sort of risk, so some sort of subsystem to track suspicion and introduce consequences like attention from the authorities.
Hi, I just started the Extinction Curse AP and have a player who wants to be a sort of conman who uses the circus to spot potential marks.
I thought it might be fun to have a subsystem for pulling off a con job. Something similar to the Infiltration or Influence subsystems in the GMG.
Is there anything close to this in an existing adventure path or other supplement (I'll even look at 1st ed. stuff), or should I just come up with my own subsystem using these as a guide?
Yeah, honestly I'm no stranger to modifying encounters in a published adventure, so when I start my full campaign I will have Low/Moderate/Severe variants for each encounter and adjust as I go.
I'm not doing that with Plaguestone because I like to get a feel for how things run as presented before I tinker. This conversation is helping a lot.
Ascalaphus wrote:
Whatever playstyle is most enjoyable is the right one.
As a player I like realism and challenge, and that's why I brought the question to the forum, to see a wider picture.
Ultimately I will have a conversation with my players during session zero, because you're right, I need to find something that's fun for the whole group.
As Captain Morgan's post illustrates, my players may resent having a constant ticking clock if they didn't buy into the idea from the start.
You mentioned you're running Plaguestone. I recently ran it, and I think part of the problems you're having are because of how that adventure is designed, not with the system per se.
That's good to hear. I'm using Plaguestone to get familiar with the system before I start the Extinction Curse with my main group.
And maybe you'll know the specific encounter I referenced above:
Spoiler:
they're at the Pen and just defeated the orcs, horse, and rats outside. They're resting in the yard before entering the cave.
Captain Morgan wrote:
I struggled with this myself. For a while I was using a device called s tension pool which had mixed results. At least one of my players really resented it, although said player resented most things that didn't go his way. Ideally, variety is important and you should just rely on what makes sense in the context of the story. If you want to chain a bunch of encounters, make them easier encounters or evaluate if the players have ways to buy time.
You read the Angry GM I'm guessing? :) That's actually the sort of mechanic I was considering when I started this thread!
It also caused complaints from GMs (and players) about it being unrealistic, that the plot just kinda had to cool its heels waiting for the players to regain their spells.
Yeah, ultimately this is my biggest issue. My players just defeated some guards outside the bad guys lair and want to rest for 2 hours, does it feel realistic that none of the other bad guys come or go in that time?
I guess I could always leave it to chance and make a roll.
Ascalaphus wrote:
2E fights are balanced much more as standalones.
I agree 100%, but I think I'm still getting used to it. PF combat still feels challenging even letting my players heal, while in D&D combat was mostly a cake walk in the tea park.
Ascalaphus wrote:
The rules for Treat Wounds are kinda specific because they want to give you the tools to do that. (Also, most of the other post-combat activities like repairing shields and identifying loot take 10 minutes too. That's just convenient.)
And I do really like that fairly uniform 10 minute time block.
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I think I'll continue to only limit rest if time's an important factor for the adventure (ie. "We have to stop the ritual!"), but now I feel a little more confident about it.
I hear what you guys are saying, but part of my brain is like "the rules are so specific with how long things like Treat Wounds take, I feel like I should track them closely!"
Thanks for the input! I hadn't considered that it might change as they level.
From the 5 games we've played, letting them heal fully hasn't had a huge impact (there seems to be a lot of severe encounters in Plaguestone for such a low level adventure), but the champion has already taken the Ward Medic feat to allow speed healing and I don't want her to feel like it was a wasted feat.
One week per level is actually exactly what I've given them so far. I had to make it really clear that they shouldn't worry about the BBEG destroying the town while they retrained, though.
I'm just curious how you all prevent the "5 minute adventuring day" problem in your games. I've never really had a problem with it, but my group is new to PF and finding combat more challenging then they're used to. I don't mind letting them spend an hour or so to let the Champion refocus/lay on hands enough to get everyone back to max HP, but at what point is it too much? I know it mostly depends on the situation, but I hate making arbitrary decisions, so I'd like to hear how it goes in other people's games.
On a similar note, I'm thinking of adopting something like the organized play rules for "earning" downtime days to strike a balance between too little/too much downtime (I'll adjust based on my player's preferences, but the organized play rules seem like a good baseline). Does anyone else use a system like this for casual games, or do I just have a stick up my butt from too many years of broken game systems?!
On page 8 it says "their circus’s Prestige can’t exceed 16 in this adventure." then page 55 says "their Prestige cannot rise above 13 during this adventure" Any idea which is correct?
It seems to have happened again on 10/17/20, this time with Siege of the Dinosaurs (Extinction Curse AP 4).
I think I know what happened though: both of these items were gifts. So do you not get the sync for gifts? The roll20 sync page says "access to PDFs on Paizo.com for items you **own** on Roll20" not "items you buy", so I didn't consider it might be an issue.
First off, I already emailed about this on Tuesday, but I saw how backed up you are and figured this is the better way to go. I hope that's ok!
Anyway, here's my issue:
I recently (October 12) got the Second Edition Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide on Roll20. My Roll20 account is synced with my paizo account so I believe I should have access to a PDF of the APG on paizo.com but I don't see it.
Did something go wrong, or is this item not available for sync or something?
Oh boy, I shouldn't have been so quick to accept an answer! This is more in line with what I originally thought.
shroudb wrote:
The order of application for damage is:
Quote:
1. Roll the dice indicated by the weapon, unarmed attack, or spell, and apply the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties that apply to the result of the roll.
2. Determine the damage type.
3. Apply the target’s immunities, weaknesses, and resistances to the damage.
4. If any damage remains, reduce the target’s Hit Points by that amount.
So back to my original question, it shouldn't matter the damage type that gets prevented because immunities/weaknesses/resistances were already applied BEFORE the damage would trigger Shield Block.
I think I got it now (for real)! And thanks to shroud and Taja for the help!
So, putting the two scenarios together (which is what actually prompted the questions), what if I use a wood shield (hardness 3) to shield block an attack from a draconic barbarian that deals 4 bludgeoning plus 4 additional fire damage?
It sounds like you're saying it would block 3 bludgeoning and 3 fire, but then 1 bludgeoning and 1 fire would be dealt to my shield and myself?
