Jack in the Box

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RPG Superstar 7 Season Star Voter, 8 Season Dedicated Voter. 19 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists.


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Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

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I collected all up all of the feedback on my item from this and other threads. Thank you to everyone for providing their thoughts. (Mark, if you want to throw a few thoughts in as well, I'd love to hear them). I think that the overall consensus seems to be that the item was fairly solid (potentially publishable), but that opinion on whether this was a Superstar was split.

The original item (so people don't have to dig back through the pages)

Ring of the Medic

Spoiler:
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 11th
Slot ring; Price 13,000 gp; Weight -

Description
For those proficient in the art of healing, this simple silver band enhances their use of the Heal skill to allow the wearer to quickly remove an assortment of conditions. A wearer of the ring with at least one rank in the Heal skill may take a full round action (which provokes attacks of opportunity) to attempt to remove one of the following conditions from an adjacent individual. With a successful Heal check that meets the required DC, the condition is removed immediately.

DC Condition
15 Dazzled
20 Dazed
20 Sickened
25 Confused
25 Deafened
25 Nauseated
30 Blinded
30 Stunned

Each successful removal of a condition in this manner increases the above DC values by 3 until the next dawn. This penalty continues to apply even if the wearer of the ring changes.

If the wearer of the ring fails when attempting to remove a condition he or she may attempt to do so again (requiring another full-round action). Different conditions affecting a subject must be removed individually, with each condition requiring a separate full-round actions.

Construction
Requirements Forge Ring, heal, creator must have 12 ranks in the Heal skill; Cost 6,500 gp

The collected feedback.

Spoiler:

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

These were just my thoughts during voting:

Ring of the Medic - Didn't really strike me as a ring item. Underpriced. CL 11 item, but 12 skill ranks needed to create.

Jaragil wrote:

130) Ring of the Medic:

One of my keep items. I like the fact that it tries to keep Heal a viable option long into the game after the first few levels. I like it a lot. At first I was worried that you could just spam attempts until you succeeded, but the cumulative +3 penalty takes care of that nicely. Though perhaps just denying retries might have been a better option. Nevertheless, I'm a bit disappointed that this wasn't advanced, but perhaps the judges thought it wasn't exciting enough or found some balance problem I just cannot see. Nevertheless, thanks for one of my favourite items and I hope to see from you next year as well.
Petty Alchemy wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Stuff about fixing throwing weapons

As I mentioned in another topic, I agree with the sentiment. I also want throwing weapons to be good. This also extends to the Ring of the Medic, which wants the Heal skill to be useful (though that one was pretty well received I think). I also want skills to be more useful.

The thing is, items in general/RPGSS specifically isn't the place to be patching the game.

Edit2: Why not patch via items? Because then the item becomes a necessary part of the fighting style. This is part of the reason I really didn't like Agile, it became about having the right magic weapon to be viable in your combat style. I like items to enhance and expand on capabilities, but not to be vital backbones.

Feros wrote:


Ring of the Medic:
Pretty straight forward Heal skill augmentation allowing the skill to be used in a way normally reserved for spells. Good idea, well presented, and not exciting in the least. A solid ring and that’s about it.
Raynulf wrote:


RING OF THE MEDIC: Kudos for trying to keep the Heal skill relevant. The choice of DCs is odd, given things like Nauseated can be suppressed by a 1st level spell, and both Blinded and Deafened are removed by the same 3rd level spell, remove blindness/deafness. A high level cleric with maxed out Heal might pick this up as a convenient way of removing annoying conditions and free up some spell slots. I'll just come out and say it though: I found it kinda boring =(.
GM_Solspiral wrote:


167) Ring of the Medic
The Good: The heal skill is under utilized and this is a great item to push more use.
The Bad: healing items are a tough sell for superstar
The Ugly: This isn't a far cry from an item last year.
Overview: 4 stars for em I like it but not contender like it.
Lucus Palosaari wrote:


Ring of the Medic - Publishable - Personal note, I WISH that Heal could naturally do something for most of these effects, using DCs almost exactly what you have set. I'd need to look closer at where you rank various conditions, question other little bits, etc. but I like this -- a lot. Price may or may not be an issue, I'm unsure. The fact that you have to make a skill check I think helps to keep it low. Also, that Check goes up (why by +3? seems an odd amount, +2 would have been my suggestion, +4 isn't bad, +5 would be fine too). Anyways, I really like this item, and I would get one if I played a healer in the party. I'm curious to see Mark's response to it (wasn't on this page).

Some of my own thoughts on the item and some comments on the concerns:

Ultimately, I was trying to create an item that did something completely new that didn't necessarily have a precedent. And when I thought about it, a magic item that enhanced a skill to let you do something new (and possibly magical) with the skill seemed like a pretty good candidate. The core idea centered around giving new uses for skill checks. When I thought about what type to make the new item, one of the best candidates seemed to be rings - bonuses to skills is a power that many rings possess. What I was trying to do, at its core, was a new type of enhancement to a skill, so rings made a lot of sense to me.

I wanted an item that would be useful in a number of situations. I considered several different skills and spell-effect combinations before settling on the Heal skill. Given how often players get gimped with conditions, removing conditions seemed like a very good effect to enhance Heal with. And for the spell, Heal seemed the natural fit. CL 11 is the minimum to cast Heal, so that set the caster level. In hindsight, judging from the comments, I might've been better off picking a flashier spell/skill combination (such as Jump and hooking a Dimension Door-type effect to its use).

The DCs. These were somewhat arbitrary, but I did do some benchmark examinations of typical skill bonuses vs. the level where some monsters where the effects are. The numbers were close enough, typically making it a dice roll whether or not you succeeded, which is what I was trying for. Auto-success would make the conditions less meaningful, which I didn't want to do.

I did think about taking 10 and taking 20. Being in combat will preclude someone from doing these (generally), which was the big case where I saw the item being used. And after combat, taking 10 or 20 seems reasonable.

The formatting of the table. I recognize that usually DCs are listed in the second column rather than the first. I wasn't quite sure how to make a table that looked nice, so I opted to flip the order of the condition and DC columns to make the table look better (as the DCs were all 2 digit and the columns would line up if I just made a list with a couple of spaces).

Costing. I wanted an item that would be useful to a wide range of levels. So that required a fairly low cost. The standard formula gave 1800 * 6 * 11 = 118,800 (requiring an action fit more with command word than use-activated). Way more than I wanted. However, first off, Heal really does three things, it heals hp damage, cures ability damage, and removes conditions. This only does about a third of those. So lopping 2/3 off the price of the the basic cost to 39,600 seemed reasonable to start with. That was still higher than I wanted. So I looked at other ways to reduce it even further. And there are really three. First, the ring requires a full-round action that provokes rather than a standard action that doesn't to use. Only affecting one condition per attempt made this even more action-intensive to use in a subset of the use cases. Second, I tacked on a limitation that made the item (effectively) no longer unlimited use: the +3 penalty to the DCs for every time you succeed. (Why 3? I had +5 for every two uses in my mind as being about right and settled on just having this just be a +3 to simplify bookkeeping). The third is simply that success isn't guaranteed. That you have to put ranks into Heal to make the item more useful. This last one doesn't have a good parallel in any existing item and the 10% reduction in cost for requiring a rank in a skill to use didn't seem high enough, as one would need more ranks to make it more useful. So the skill investment is a sort of hidden cost decision that the player has to make. I also evaluated the item against other items in the price range and decided that 13,000 gp (roughly a third of what spell formula yielded) seemed like a pretty good place for the item.

One other note on cost is that I toyed with the idea of granting a bonus on the skill too, but decided that having a lower cost and no bonus (go get another item if you want a skill bonus) was a better plan. One could theoretically increase their skill bonus (and enhance the effectiveness of this ring) by purchasing additional items. I was ok with that - the effect of buying more items to make this more reliable is that they just spent more gp to get the effect (effectively increasing the cost).

Other odds and ends. I wasn't actually looking to patch the Heal skill with this item. I was mainly trying to pioneer a brand-new space for magic items. One item that I would change is reduce the required number of ranks to create the item to 9 (I've been playing 3.5 a lot recently, and I think that my mind added 3 to the number of ranks rather than remembering the +3 bonus.)

Again thanks for the feedback! (And if anyone else wants to throw additional thoughts in feel free to do so).

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Well, here was mine. Yes, I'm aware of the extra s at the very end that was courtesy of a last minute edit (I have beaten myself up enough over that already).

Ring of the Medic
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 11th
Slot ring; Price 13,000 gp; Weight -

Description
For those proficient in the art of healing, this simple silver band enhances their use of the Heal skill to allow the wearer to quickly remove an assortment of conditions. A wearer of the ring with at least one rank in the Heal skill may take a full round action (which provokes attacks of opportunity) to attempt to remove one of the following conditions from an adjacent individual. With a successful Heal check that meets the required DC, the condition is removed immediately.

DC Condition
15 Dazzled
20 Dazed
20 Sickened
25 Confused
25 Deafened
25 Nauseated
30 Blinded
30 Stunned

Each successful removal of a condition in this manner increases the above DC values by 3 until the next dawn. This penalty continues to apply even if the wearer of the ring changes.

If the wearer of the ring fails when attempting to remove a condition he or she may attempt to do so again (requiring another full-round action). Different conditions affecting a subject must be removed individually, with each condition requiring a separate full-round actions.

Construction
Requirements Forge Ring, heal, creator must have 12 ranks in the Heal skill; Cost 6,500 gp

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

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I'll add onto the comment about using the Preview button. Use it. But also try resizing your browser when viewing the preview. It can catch hidden (and unwanted) carriage returns that are side-effects from a copy and paste which look fine at the current size but which mangle the formatting when viewing your submission at a different resolution. (This was a lesson from last year that I learned the hard way.)

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Feros wrote:

OK, as promised here are the carefully analyzed breakdowns of the items I've seen and/or recognize for placement purposes. The thing that strikes me immediately is how many earthbreakers made it through the cull (80%).

...

Another way of looking at it would be the survival rates:

Weapons 43.90%
Rings 27.14%
Armors 45.60%
Staves 54.43%
Rods 53.85%
Shields 57.38%

Rings clearly took the brunt of the cull. Ouch.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

GM_Solspiral wrote:
Will anyone else become a champion in time?

Not me. Dedicated is about all the time I could spare.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Coleman wrote:

I personally think that the item pricing rules are viewed as a little too concrete in general. I think the first step in the book is to look at other items and price your item according to comparative abilities and so on. After you've taken that step, if you feel it is inaccurate, then you rely on the table provided in the CRB.

I think too many people here go right to the table. Which does not cover every possibility. Without saying too much about my item, it was limited in its ability in a way not addressed on the table. So right off the bat, I knew I was going to have to come up with my own reasoning.

I feel that looking at other items and pricing based on that is a better way, but of course it's much more open to interpretation, so in circumstances like this, many would prefer more consistent rules.

Yep. This is the philosophy I used as well. The item I built only used a small subset of what the spells in the prerequisite list I opted for could do. And it had other limitations not covered by the book as well. Just relying on the formula would've been a very poor way to price the item.

I went through several other items in my head and asked myself would I typically want that item or mine. When I arrived at a price range where the answer changed from usually "Item A" or "Item B" to "It Depends," I had the approximate area the item's price should be in.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

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I actually think that I've got a pretty good shot. Which is surprising to me as I'm usually fairly pessimistic about these sorts of things.

We'll all know pretty soon.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

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Anne Sullivan wrote:
Ahhh item. I keep seeing you. You have a misspelling in your description but I keep voting for you anyway. I bet your designer is upset at themselves for the misspelling, but hopefully they don't beat themselves up too badly. Because you're interesting and make me smile. Have another vote.

I suspect that you give a fair number of submitters who are prone to typos hope.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

I had a general mechanic concept that I'd been toying with for the item I wanted to submit this year. I sat down a day or so after submissions opened and on some specifics. I then wrote up a draft of the item and saved it. And then ignored it for a couple of days.

I came back a few days later, having turned the item over in the back of my head for a few days and revised the item. I also pulled out my rules and double-checked some mechanics. After I was satisfied, I went ahead and submitted.

I found that putting the submission away for a few days really helped tighten up my item as I was looking at it with fresh eyes.

When I submitted, I made sure that I checked the preview and I also resized the window that I was using to preview the submission. I strongly recommend that submitters resize the window. Not everyone uses the same sized window that you are using. My 2014 submission got burned by some carriage returns that crept in (but which looked fine at the window size I was using when I submitted).

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Looks like my item cleared the cull. Feeling a bit more optimistic now.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Obviously, I'm not as hardcore of a voter as most folks here on the forum.

I find that I personally tend to be a bit harder on magic weapons and armor than most others. Weapons and armor have to do something to really wow me AND the wow factor has to fit with whatever other abilities the item has. I also find that I don't like too many effects on these types - that turns me off too.

I also know that I am biased towards items priced in the five to thirty thousand range. Those prices of items get the most use in games I play, so I usually like them better.

I also find that I keep my eyes out for stuff that suggests a new area where similar items could be created. Those almost always get an upvote from me as they suggest a strong bit of creativity in the writer.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Finally saw my item, at long last. Feeling a little bit better now.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

After the horrible mangling of formatting that happened to my submission last year, I'm definitely much happier this year.

Is it a good item? I think so. I haven't seen or heard of any items that do something similar to how it functions, so there is at least some hope that it is doing something new/different/intriguing.

I haven't seen it yet. However, I'm trying to remain hopeful. If I understand how the algorithm for presenting items works, not seeing it probably means that it has drifted towards one of the ends of the spectrum in popularity. Hopefully a good sign.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Blech. Five pairs in a row where I really wanted to say neither of these should be kept. The sixth pair at least had something nice.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

As epitomized by Weird Al... "Word Crimes." Enough said. Down vote for you.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

A new item. And I had to vote it down. Over the item that I had previously considered to be the stupidest item I'd seen (and which I'd voted down at least five times).

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

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36) Contains alchohol in the description (also take a drink).

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Amy Gillespie wrote:

...

Okay, I did not expect this particular item to make it post cull.

But hey, it's not a HORRIBLE item, either. Just ... a bit meh in my opinion.

Yeah... I've seen a few of those too.

There have also been several that made me wonder what sort of encounter the player had that inspired that particular item.

Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

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Ugh. Just saw my item. The formatting somehow got mangled, even though it looked ok when I previewed it. Its still readable, but ugly looking. :(