Vampires and entering private home or dwelling?


Rules Questions


In the PRD it states: "Vampires cannot enter a private home or dwelling unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so."

My question is what is considered a private home or dwelling? Is a inn a private dwelling, is a business a private dwelling, or is a temple a private dwelling?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

No
No
No

A litmus test: if you can, in accordance with common courtesy, enter a building without asking permission/being invited, it isn't a private dwelling.

Sovereign Court

I'd argue that the rented rooms within the inn would qualify though.


Sure, but only after they've been rented. :)

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
RJGrady wrote:
Sure, but only after they've been rented. :)

Of course. That's whey "rented" and not "rentable". :P


I disagree about the rooms in a 'Public House'... (Inn)...

How about a private club (gentlemens club, gambling establishment etc) where a member of the staff is currently living? Not a home per se...

Despite having used Vampires in my game a fair amount, I was not aware of this limitation on them. Neato.


What about a bear cave? A bear dwells there and others are not welcome. I'd say no vamps.

Sovereign Court

alexd1976 wrote:
How about a private club (gentlemens club, gambling establishment etc) where a member of the staff is currently living? Not a home per se...

Only in the staff member's private room - if they have one. Not for the bulk of the club - that would be public.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Slamron wrote:
What about a bear cave? A bear dwells there and others are not welcome. I'd say no vamps.

I think it's intended to be sentient home only.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

An Inn is not a private home, but the Innkeeper's suite behind the kitchen is. A business is also not a private home, but again the shopkeepers apartment on the second floor is. A Temple is not, but the cloister might be?

I would say that a rented room is not a private home, unless you live there permanently. i.e.: you are a traveler and rent the room for the night then no, but if you have been renting the room for a month and expect to do so in the foreseeable future I would say yes.

The Cloister is Hallowed ground, so a Vampire may not be able to enter it anyways. If she can, she can move through the halls and common areas, but not the individual cells or apartments.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I like the Dresden universe take on this. There are some "barriers" stronger than others. A multi-generational home will have a strong barrier. A room rented for the night a weak one.

Sovereign Court

j b 200 wrote:
I would say that a rented room is not a private home, unless you live there permanently. i.e.: you are a traveler and rent the room for the night then no, but if you have been renting the room for a month and expect to do so in the foreseeable future I would say yes.

If there were various strengths of 'home' - I'd agree with you and it'd be an extremely weak barrier. That's discussed in The Dresden Files.

However - in Pathfinder it's an All or Nothing rule - and it becomes a question of where do you draw the line? It becomes too subjective for my taste - so I'd just rule that -yes- it works. (The vamp can always just burn the inn down.)

Edit: Mention of Dresden Files ninja'd.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
I would say that a rented room is not a private home, unless you live there permanently. i.e.: you are a traveler and rent the room for the night then no, but if you have been renting the room for a month and expect to do so in the foreseeable future I would say yes.

If there were various strengths of 'home' - I'd agree with you and it'd be an extremely weak barrier. That's discussed in The Dresden Files.

However - in Pathfinder it's an All or Nothing rule - and it becomes a question of where do you draw the line? It becomes too subjective for my taste - so I'd just rule that -yes- it works. (The vamp can always just burn the inn down.)

Edit: Mention of Dresden Files ninja'd.

Though I love the Dresden idea, you'd need to make a new chart for it. As it stands, you are correct. It's all or nothing. It'll be DM' discretion. I think the litmus test mentioned earlier is the best way to go.

"A litmus test: if you can, in accordance with common courtesy, enter a building without asking permission/being invited, it isn't a private dwelling."

Liberty's Edge

Yeah but the person that has a room in the inn doesn't own it. (Lawyer in me talking) I'd say its up to the GM.

Sovereign Court

Qstor wrote:
Yeah but the person that has a room in the inn doesn't own it. (Lawyer in me talking) I'd say its up to the GM.

So if a vampire wants to come in - he just dominates a local lord or magistrate and gets them to sign a writ to confiscate your home? Then he's free to enter?


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Qstor wrote:
Yeah but the person that has a room in the inn doesn't own it. (Lawyer in me talking) I'd say its up to the GM.
So if a vampire wants to come in - he just dominates a local lord or magistrate and gets them to sign a writ to confiscate your home? Then he's free to enter?

Depends on if there's a squatters rights clause anywhere.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

The US Being Human had a bit about what happens when the ownership of a building changes...and therefore the invitation is rescinded.

Shadow Lodge

I really need to read the Dresden Files stuff someday.

Sovereign Court

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Qstor wrote:
Yeah but the person that has a room in the inn doesn't own it. (Lawyer in me talking) I'd say its up to the GM.
So if a vampire wants to come in - he just dominates a local lord or magistrate and gets them to sign a writ to confiscate your home? Then he's free to enter?
Depends on if there's a squatters rights clause anywhere.

That would have to do with if there was an owner who wanted to kick out squatters. I don't believe it'd have anything to do with confiscation.


In Buffy/Angel it has to be a persons permanent home. A rented room doesn't count unless it's rented long-term as your only residence, and not just for a couple days or weeks as you pass through or visit.
If the person actually can be said to live somewhere else then the answer would be no.


That's not really relevant in combat, so just do whatever is best for your story / adventure.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Something to consider: an invitation need not be formal or explicit.

If someone asks you if you would carry their parcels into the home, that's an invitation. If someone asks you to take a look at something inside the house (for possible repairs), that's an invitation. Basically if a person makes a request that would require you to enter the home, it's also an invitation.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Also nothing stopping the vampire from using their dominate gaze to get an invitation.

**KNOCK KNOCK**
"Who the hell are you?"
"Aren't you going to invite me inside?" *DOMINATE*
"Yes. Please come inside."


Ross Byers wrote:

Also nothing stopping the vampire from using their dominate gaze to get an invitation.

**KNOCK KNOCK**
"Who the hell are you?"
"Aren't you going to invite me inside?" *DOMINATE*
"Yes. Please come inside."

This. The invitation weakness is a minor inconvenience at best.


All the above ...

And I don't know about others in this thread but feel free to (in fact I'd encourage it) to alter creatures from their Bestiary entries particularly if you feel it adds to the story or the players (but not characters) are familiar with the creature.

As for the bit about Dresden residential strength no reason you couldn't create such variance by allowing the vampire a save, setting the DC from essentially impossible for a multi-generational home to fairly easy for a long term rental within an otherwise public establishment etc..


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Lo these many years ago, during the storied days of AD&D, I was playing in a Ravenloft campaign when Count VonZarovich himself comes to visit the lowly player characters at the place where they had taken refuge in town.

I had taken the opportunity to spend some gold that was burning a hole in my pouch by buying some villager's house at an outrageous markup so very few questions would be asked. When the lightning flashed and the door burst open to reveal the Count smiling at us, everyone started to freak out about how there was no way this encounter was fair and that we were all going to die. I strode confidently to the door and barred the way with sword in one hand and holy symbol in the other and told the loathsome beast to begone.

He laughed, pronounced me brave AND stupid and started to enter the room. If I recall correctly, I actually said "You shall not pass!" That's when he slammed up against the threshold like it was an invisible glass wall. (I still imagine that with great fondness.)

The count snarled, glared at the former home owner, now tenant, who shrugged helplessly as he looked at me and tried to cover the bag of gold with his hands. I returned the villager to the count with my compliments and told him that we would visit him sometime tomorrow morning for a more proper introduction then slammed the door in his face.

In the interest of complete disclosure: The mission failed with all characters but mine turned into a vampire. I was chained in the dining hall and force-fed a potion that caused me replenish blood at an amazing rate. As far as I know, I hang there still.

(If you're going to mess with vampires, you better have something more reliable than property rights!)

Sovereign Court

Plus there was nothing keeping the count from using a torch.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Plus there was nothing keeping the count from using a torch.

Except, of course, the Count himself wouldn't stoop to such uncouth and uncivilized behavior at least at that point. Now some other *lesser* vampire might not be so inclined. Or the players might find themselves in what amounts to a self inflicted golden cage/prison with the vampire waiting outside to pounce when the leave their safe haven.


If you go back to the original lore the reason a vampire(and hosts of other supernatural beings) can't enter a home without invitation was the home was considered sacred ground.


Council of Thieves:
I actually had the spawn of the vampire lord of Westcrown burn down a house. The PC escaped and drew off the vampires while the other occupants got away into the better-lit streets.

That PC later bought his own home... which he then had fireproofed. They do learn!


marcryser wrote:

Lo these many years ago, during the storied days of AD&D, I was playing in a Ravenloft campaign when Count VonZarovich himself comes to visit the lowly player characters at the place where they had taken refuge in town.

I had taken the opportunity to spend some gold that was burning a hole in my pouch by buying some villager's house at an outrageous markup so very few questions would be asked. When the lightning flashed and the door burst open to reveal the Count smiling at us, everyone started to freak out about how there was no way this encounter was fair and that we were all going to die. I strode confidently to the door and barred the way with sword in one hand and holy symbol in the other and told the loathsome beast to begone.

He laughed, pronounced me brave AND stupid and started to enter the room. If I recall correctly, I actually said "You shall not pass!" That's when he slammed up against the threshold like it was an invisible glass wall. (I still imagine that with great fondness.)

Funny Thing is that this would not work with Strahd, because in Ravenloft his connection to the land is so strong that every home is technically his. Got really funny in the first Ravenloft book. The much older elven vampire could not enter a home, but the much younger Strahd had no problem with it.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've actually seen some theories on how to weaponize this.

One person I've discussed it with, actually proposed rapidly erecting a building /around/ a vampire's mausoleum or resting place while keeping said mausoleum or resting place notably separate from the new dwelling, thus perpetually trapping the vampire within.

One particular lunatic insisted on taking the vampire's coffin, opening the top and propping it up against someone's front door as a means to keep the vampire trapped in his coffin.


Because who wouldn't want to live in a home with an angry vampire, who gets loose the moment you're late with the rent?


I always wondered if there was a connection between the need to be invited into a home, and the use of a stake to pin a vampire, since a stake is often used to mark property boundaries.

I'm probably thinking too far into it.


Spook205 wrote:

I've actually seen some theories on how to weaponize this.

One person I've discussed it with, actually proposed rapidly erecting a building /around/ a vampire's mausoleum or resting place while keeping said mausoleum or resting place notably separate from the new dwelling, thus perpetually trapping the vampire within.

One particular lunatic insisted on taking the vampire's coffin, opening the top and propping it up against someone's front door as a means to keep the vampire trapped in his coffin.

Seems silly if you found the mausoleum just knock it down and help him greet the sun. Really it seem like you aren't weaponizing the weaknesses so much as using them to troll a vampire,


2 people marked this as a favorite.
VRMH wrote:
Because who wouldn't want to live in a home with an angry vampire, who gets loose the moment you're late with the rent?

Well, you don't tell them that.

*thinks a moment*

*starts to write a plot encounter*

Silver Crusade

VRMH wrote:
Because who wouldn't want to live in a home with an angry vampire, who gets loose the moment you're late with the rent?

You just described Nightwatch.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Lord Vukodlak wrote:
Spook205 wrote:

I've actually seen some theories on how to weaponize this.

One person I've discussed it with, actually proposed rapidly erecting a building /around/ a vampire's mausoleum or resting place while keeping said mausoleum or resting place notably separate from the new dwelling, thus perpetually trapping the vampire within.

One particular lunatic insisted on taking the vampire's coffin, opening the top and propping it up against someone's front door as a means to keep the vampire trapped in his coffin.

Seems silly if you found the mausoleum just knock it down and help him greet the sun. Really it seem like you aren't weaponizing the weaknesses so much as using them to troll a vampire,

Yeah. Finding a vampire sleeping in its tomb and not killing it is like finding a lich's phyactery and mounting it in a giant mousetrap instead of smashing it.


Scenario:

A magical house is animated.

The party moves in, and the house doesn't mind.

Vampires come a-knockin one day, and the party stupidly invites them in.

The house does nothing.

Can they enter?


Can the house grant people permission to enter itself? If yes, then yes. I imagine so.


If you're going to super fast build a house around a vampire's coffin to trap them (Lyre of building would do it in time), why not set up a running creek around the coffin? Can't cross running water either.


Myrryr wrote:
If you're going to super fast build a house around a vampire's coffin to trap them (Lyre of building would do it in time), why not set up a running creek around the coffin? Can't cross running water either.

A running creek covered in beaver dams, with animated beavers.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Vampires and entering private home or dwelling? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.