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As liger has the Bargain Hunter feat, he can use Diplomacy instead for his day-job, and he will.
Thanks for the game Deevor and everyone else. it was fun. have a wonderful halloween.
"Your highness. I do not believe that the priest has any such concerns, but rather is simply looking at a way to destabilize their neighbors. Such is the way of Razmir after-all... However, Nalla herself did show extreme worry that the people were not being heard. That the concerns of the common man were going unheeded, and that such actions are the first step towards villainy and despotism. She showed great interest in discussing finding a way for your governance to show a direct interest in the woes of the populace. While it is true it appears the priest has supplanted her leadership to an extent. I personally feel she was instrumental in getting the groups organized to begin with. If such is the case, then it is likely true that a large percentage of those fools rebelling, had similar worries. After-all, it was only when Nalla started to waiver away from a rebellion that the Razmir priest chose to act. If she had no sway, he would have felt no need to strike out so soon. I do not ask you to step down from what is rightfully yours, but rather perhaps an olive branch rather than a whip... I have heard tales of a town in Isger who, on a monthly basis, holds a council where the common folk share their greatest ills to the town leadership. Who then takes note, and acts as needed, to resolve the important issues brought forth. If such a caring governance can flourish in a region so strongly linked to Cheliax. Surely a similar beneficent and magnanimous leadership could only lead to further prosperity in your lands?"
Before things get too out of hand, Liger will slip into view. "Your highness. Might I add an additional measure to back up our claims before you make any hasty decisions?" Liger slowly slips the letter from Smine, that was to get them in to see the king from the outside, out and offers it to the nearest guard. "I know our entry was most uncouth, and I must apologize for our abruptness. I know you have no reason to trust us. However, as the Society would rather see stability in these lands, and I would see such to my neighbors, I must implore you to believe us in this manner."
Liger happily walks away form the oil barrels, not fond of fire. She will nod her head slightly at the thanks mentioned, but otherwise remains quiet on the matter. As Nalla is revealed Liger will spread it hands wide, "Harsus fled when he realized we were not going to be defeated. As for you, well. My statement stands, that entreating with the King, and seeking some middle ground, is the most likely solution that benefits everyone... Compromise on both sides, though uncomfortable, is usually far better than an outright rebellion... After-all, what if you fail, and then Edryd becomes certain the people are out to get him? That might just drive him to the tyranny you seek to ensure never happens." Diplomacy:
Very fair, and not surprising people are mixing it up. As the change was not called out in a post for the final print, but making it into an action for the playtest WAS in a blog-post. So, for future games, if anyone tries to tell you it's an action, you can refer them to page 470 in the core :)
@Deevor Release (aka dropping) is a free action in 2e. (it was a full action in the playtest, and got met with a lot of consternation for it, so they rolled that back.) As Duvik was dropping, not stowing/sheathing/ etc. the weapon. he had it right.
Liger casts the scroll of Shattering Gem in their hands, targeting himself for it's benefits. She turns to look at Erryn, "You are not allowed to fall... Not yet anyway." He draws a scroll of Heal from his scroll case.
@Deevor You are correct that Heal is 1D8+1. Harm, however, is only 1D8. Erryn was correct on their numbers.
Duvik is wielding his scythe, not his warhammer and shield. I think, since taking a hand off a weapon is a free action, I can at least attempt the reaction. unfortunately, you can only take one free-action or reaction in response to the same trigger. So falling off the edge trigger means you can either try to catch the ledge, OR take hand off your scythe. "You can use only one action in response to a given trigger. For example, if you had a reaction and a free action that both had a trigger of “your turn begins,” you could use either of them at the start of your turn—but not both" core rulebook, page 46
It is possible it was not from falling normally, but rather from a creature special ability. Some have the equivalent of "do trip/grapple/shove/whatever. if critically succeed, you also do X amount of damage" type abilities. Which is why i did not call that part out.
Disliking having to tear through the lackeys, Liger still resigns himself to the fact. Grimacing, she releases an Electric Arc on both the guard next to Manny and the guard who kicked Brigid off the bridge. Basic Reflex save, DC 17 He then draws a Scroll of Shattering Gem from his scroll case.
Additional question, you mention 9 strikes in description for the crit athletics? Is that saying that there were 9 attempts to athletics? Because, sadly, in 2e it doesn't work that way. A readied action consumes one of the users actions, and it then ends their turn, but let's them spend ONE action for the readied attempt (so one cannot ready a spell for instance.) Ready an action page 470 in the book as well. Or, were you referring to the previous nine attempts at hitting that failed? Just making sure I understood.
As someone who has run just about every adventure in 2nd, including the APs, the big question is just how far down is that water? I ask, because it looks 5 feet, based on the staircases to it. If that is the case, as a medium sized creature can attack from such height difference. I would make a DC assumption based on level, not the simple DC descriptors. (also, at this level range, Expert is impressive DCs. Master is a "you gonna fail. Period." And since I in reality, a not horribly athletic person, can pull myself up over the lip of a 5 foot tall stone wall, I would also have to recommend going by level.) The book, on page 503, also calls out specifically "Because there isn’t much gradation between the simple DCs, they don’t work as well for hazards or combatants, where the PCs’ lives are on the line; you’re better off using level-based DCs for such challenges." Using DC's by level, if the scenario does not call out a DC, I could easily see an argument for it to use the middle-high tier ranges. (level 3 or 4) so an 18 or 19, which puts it in the ability range for those with free hands. As for Brigid's case, I can also see the argument for not catching the edge still, because no free hands. However, back to water depth as well. If it's 5 feet deep, Brigid can stand, strike, athletics to swim to stay where she is, or move half her speed in direction of choice. (those last two can be reversed.) If more than 5 feet deep. Brigid will need to Athletics first to reach surface, and then can still strike, before athletics to stay put or move.
Liger shakes her head in annoyance, "One must always be cautious about whom they employ. especially as second in command... " [ib]The otehrs will balk and look to nalla for guidance if we can defeat or force the robed man to flee.[i] He then strides closer, before loosing a ray of frost at the man in the cloak.
Liger steps forward and bows to Nalla, shooting the man to the side a skeptic look. "My name is Liger, and I am both a resident of the River Kingomds AND a member of the Society. My fellow Pathfinders and I do, indeed, seek a treasure... History. Such a treasure is only matched by that of friendship and loyalty." He motions to the waterworks around them all as she continues. "Like the water that flows through this works, History guides and moves us all. If we embrace it, learn from it, then it can move us to great purpose and improve life for everyone... If, however, we ignore it. Then the works can grind to a halt. The waters of our lives stagnating and turning foul." He then turns and looks at Nalla again, "As you say, Edryd is young, and his own history is still flowing... Perhaps, a middle-ground could be achieved? One where he maintains some presence of power, but where the people share in major decisions?" Diplomacy:
Liger allows his words to sink in and turns to face the man beside her, bowing again. "I do not believe we have met... Might I get a name to call you by?"
"We met a man named Chops who claimed to be part of the Firebrands, which I am starting to doubt... Then again, from what I can tell, I am not even sure the Firebrands exist in the first-place. More myth than legend..." Liger shrugs exasperated, "The main point is that, technically, Chops did not lie. His tale of woe was, entirely, that the people are being taxed, (they are, but less than before) and that Nalla knows more. (I expect she does, as she is the ring-leader of all this.) Whether any of that is worth a revolution over... Well, I leave that for the group to decide... Admittedly, we still don't know all of Nalla's reasons, and perhaps She knows things that are too convoluted for Chops and his men to understand... Never underestimate the ability of someone in high places attempting to do good, ultimately leading to a dark outcome."
Once Chops retires, Liger will uproot themselves and cautiously approach the group of Pathfinder hanging out by that fiery hell-pit. "I would be wary about trying to warn Smine, or anything that might seem untoward... Chops may not be wary of us, however that speaks not for his superiors. If I was the leader of an upcoming revolution, I would make sure any potential 'new-recruits' are watched carefully... I don't know if this Nalla is the sort to have someone follow us, or if Chops will even speak of us... But I recommend we keep an eye out for tails never-the-less." As Emmanuel and Birgid discuss her oath, Liger is all to happy to speak up once more. "Technically, the oath was specifically to do no harm unless attacked first. If the situation calls for such details... I am certain they could be 'persuaded' to lash out at us first... You know... Only if the situation calls for it, of course. Otherwise, I would be one who votes to go meet with this Nalla directly, first. After-all, the more information we know, the more useful said intel could be, if found to be necessary. Further, it is still entirely possible that Nalla is aware of something that might truly be a reason for this rebellion. And I would hate for us to act without knowing the full details, especially if such action may preclude us from learning more... but that is merely my view on this." Liger spreads their arms in a manner that suggests "I've done all I can already."
Liger listens intently as Chops speaks, and takes careful note of how everyone is reacting. From the townsfolk, they didn't seem all that bad off when I was talking to them. Very surprising... I wonder just how truthful these folks are... Do they even really know what they are fighting for? After waiting a few moments to let the gears turn in her head some, Liger speaks up from her resting place. "I, too, have a clearly strong disliking for all forms of monarchal power structures, being a free-spirit given form. Such despots seem to only ever leave us to toil ceaselessly beneath their feet, don't they..." Liger lets out a deep crestfallen sigh while slowly shaking his mushroom cap sadly, taking the time to look each of her companions in the eye for just a moment. Hoping they took the hint to not argue, she continues. "As a fellow native to the Kingdoms, I fully understand your plight and desire for freedom from oppression, however benign it may appear. This Nalla is clearly someone with great clout and understanding of the true desires of free men. I can only imagine she played a great role in the removal of the Waikes. Her strength of character flows so strongly, as to even be reflected in you fine folk." Liger turns and gives Chops a reverent look. "So strong of heart and noble of virtue are you all. Truly, the Firebrands have found staunch defenders of freedom and protectors from tyranny in each of you." Liger turns and surveys the group of men with apparent awe. Just need to lay it on a little thicker, and they'll eat it right up... Liger once more looks at Chops, attempting their most humble appearance yet. "Please, kind and courageous Chops. In the morning, do us the greatest of courtesy and allow us to join you. Meeting someone as great as Nalla would truly be a once in a life-time opportunity. I should know after-all, I have lived several and have yet to be so graced..."
You are correct Zug, the only place that suggests the swarms work as we expect from 1e is in the swarms trait description. Where it says that the swarm "functions as" a single creature. 'Function' can be interpreted multiple ways, and until errata'd I expect there to be a lot of table variance on it.
Liger graciously enters the camp, but maintains a healthy-for-plant-folk amount of space between themselves and the fire. Instead choosing to rest against the wall near one of Chops men, while listening to the tale. "Firebrands you say? I'm very well traveled, however I've yet to have the pleasure of meeting one of your fine company... That is, until now, of course." Liger settles his leg stumps into the soil, preparing to rest for the evening. "I'd be extremely interested in hearing you tale, and; if still so willing, to meet this Nalla you described."
Liger happily steps forward, and bows deeply before Chops. "We are but humble travelers who sought to investigate our Society's heritage. After an encounter with beasties most foul, we viewed your comforting campfire. We do not mean you any harm, good fellows. Merely some company and fine conversation to wait out the perils that prowl in the night." Liger will bow once more before continuing, "I myself am a native of the River Kingdoms. As such, I entreat you. What gesture might I provide you to demonstrate our friendly intentions?" Liger will bow once more in an effort to show his truthfulness and good graces.
"People you say? As in humanoids? Excellent. I shall go and entreat with them. I am certain they have much more interesting things to say than those spiders did." Liger starts making their way towards the open barn. As they are normally near the back, anyone who wishes may stop him, and/or look for a place to hide while she goes and chats with what are clearly incredibly amiable fellows. What with being this far from town, in the middle of a swamp, not far from a possible smugglers drop-point.
"Ah, yes... I believe Harold-... Erm... Holding... Er... Hollygreen Wine, said we should return to him once we knew more about the 'lost' Lodge... Not that it is lost anymore... But then, there's the matter of the other buildings out in the swamp that could use a solid 'expeditioning' to! In order to recover any lost treasure- er... 'Keepsakes' and return them to their owners, of course." If no-one asks for them, then they clearly have no more owners, and we take them for ourselves. "Not to mention I believe the sun is all but set, and some of our party seems liable to step into something... 'unpleasant' if they cannot see where they are going..." Liger examines the place, notes it still has a semi-functional ceiling, shrugs, and continues. "Perhaps it is best we camp here for the evening.""
Seeing his future herald (tm) in trouble. Liger gathers her courage, and strides to the space just south of Erryn, giving flanking to Emmanuel. "Get your little nibblers off my herald!" They yell at the spider swarm, before turning to Erryn, "Find a table or chair, or similar and break off a leg or the like, would you? I forgot to grab meself a club before setting off into these dangerous lands." Liger then aims and fires a ray of frost at red spider (assuming it is not so far up as to be out of sight.)
"Yeah! You better run! Coward! And don't you dare come near Ligeran if you know what is good for you!"
Zug brings up an interesting point. WOULD telekinetic projectile work against the swarms at this table? It's targeting rules are identical to other spells with attack rolls. "Target: 1 creature". But it also mentioned requiring outside objects to launch at the target in order to do its damage, of the described type. (again, mostly asking due to the previous rulings, and wanting to know where the divide is.)
Grimacing in disgust as his spell fails to achieve the desired effect. "Nasty things. Don't even have the good sense to turn around and scuttle back into the hallows from whence they came." Liger will then target yellow swarm with a Ray of Frost. ()
"Take that you little creton! Shows you whom you are dealing with!" Third action is a Recall Knowledge on the big spiders.
Spoiled nature roll in case of crit fail:
Very understandable, and agree about it not being clear. (hence me asking for a clarification on how you will rule it for your table. Just so i understand. And I failed to mention immunity to the precision damage, does not change the AC drop for flanking. However, as an old 1e guy as well, I can understand if you want to also rule them as unflankable, untrippable etc. I do just want to make sure I understand such adjudications. if they are going to be sweeping ones such "applies to all swarms unless stated otherwise" before I essentially waste another turn.) As such, I am going to then ask if a spell with an attack roll to hit, but still specifies a target of "1 creature," will fall under the same assumption as a melee or ranged weapon attacking, or it falls under the same issue as the electric arc as above.
@deevor so I fully understand the response to Liger's spell cast. Was that a "they both critically succeed the save" or a GM ruling of "swarms can't be targeted by electric arc?" (Though the rules state to treat swarms as single monsters, that is ambiguous in response to whether they get targeted as a single creature. However normal attacks also target "creatures" not "monsters" but I digress. Otherwise the only note about targeting swarms is in any with the "swarm mind" trait, which says immune to mental effects that target a specific number of creatures... {this ironically helps add my own future adjudication at my own table, that they CAN be targeted by single target spells. As it made specific call outs against it as a second trait outside normal swarm rules. But further digression.} They can even be flanked, critted and knocked prone in 2e, ironically enough, unless specifically called out as otherwise in its stat block.) Or that these swarms are resistant to the electric damage? Just so I understand your chosen table adjudication, and can adjust my actions accordingly.
Well, plus side, means there are more squares to hit the swarms with splash and the like with. Zug might even find one at one point, where he can hit all three at once. Down-side... so much for burning hands idea.
Liger hisses in annoyance at the appearance of the spiders. "How dare you attempt to feed on me or my subjects! Do you not know to whom you are looking at?" Stupid spiders. Always eating the useful ones, when they should be hunting those pesky insects who try to eat me. Liger drops an electric arc on yellow swarm and green swarm respectively. DC 17 reflex for half. Then, if Liger's following path does not go through a swarm (), Liger will stride East one square, and North 2 squares. If it would go through a swarm, then she simply draws their rapier.
@zug Splash damage, if not a bomber, applies to the targeted square and all adjacent squares. Friendlies included. If a bomber, can choose to splash as normal, OR just the one enemy targeted. Further, on a hit you do full damage and splash, on a miss you do just splash, on a crit-miss you do neither, per the Splash Trait description on page 544 of core. (AC for floor is GM determined, so will wait for Deevor on that) Question @deevor. How many swarms are here? Asking, because it looks like three tokens, (aka 3 swarms) but each taking up just a square with an ally in it. {most swarms are Large (four squares a pop). Are these really small swarms? if so, great news for possibly getting some burning hands off on multiple swarms for once} Important for knowing what squares can be targeted for what. Also, if I need to move, which squares are occupied.
Correct. Readying an action costs two actions and only allows a single action to be readied. Therefore, spellcasters can only ready one action spells. As such, most of the spells I've seen readied are one-action focus spells. Like an Elemental Sorcerer's Elemental Toss, as there aren't many 1 action spells you don't get full value out of if you just cast on your turn. (An exception can be guidance on someone, in case they lose their intended action due to a debuff like slowed. Thus preventing them from using the bonus AND being unable to be targeted again during the encounter.)
"Everyone safely out of the muck? good, good... And since I am in such a good mood, I won't even mention where-... Well, I just said i wouldn't mention it didn't I?" Liger then takes her place towards the back of the party, enjoying the landscape and the view of the building.
As they step inside the building Liger takes a long look around the place. What a waste of a good building, sitting empty like this... I could easily move several subjects here and they would be quite happy, mind you.
Not liking the presence of spider-webs, Liger will resume his usual practice of stealthing everywhere he can, in order to stay out of sight.
Liger happily tramps along with the others, enjoying the feeling of muddy water along her foot stumps. As the light begins to fade, he notices the group moving slower by the minute, before finally coming to the point they must stop and make a decision. "I do not mind traipsing further in the dark. For light is a luxury not commonly embraced in Ligeran. If you are worried about what may lay ahead, I mind not taking the lead and scouting in the darkness... However, should you truly need to rest and make camp, I will not argue against it. So long as my place of rest is positioned properly on a point of appropriate stature for my rank."
Liger has a +7 to both Deception and Diplomacy, as well as a unique bonus to initiative if Deception was being used when initiative is called, (making his bonus +8 for Deception Initiative, rather than +6 for Stealth or Perceptions). Further he has the very fun feat Shameless Request (Reduces the DC by 2, and if critically failing a Request, it is treated as only a failure. Thus never lowering their attitude on an attempt.) Both of these are because of the Leshy ancestry feat Harmlessly Cute. So if we need to Make a Request of anybody, I highly recommend Liger be the primary on it, and would have a preference for any time we try Deception to be at least the secondary, in case it leads to a fight breaking out. However, I do not mind if others want to be both primary and secondary for Diplomacy outside of Request moments. Liger only has a +1 for survival, and isn't Trained, so I am hoping they are not in contention for Primary or Secondary on that <.<
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