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But to better understand the swarms for future games... I read the spider swarm creature stats from aonprd (sorry, spoiled myself...), and I couldn't find any RAW that single physical attacks wouldn't affect swarms.
They are immune to precision damage and to "mental effects that target only a specific number of creatures" - and that's it.
I think the resistances is the mechanic to make normal attacks less effective - but there's no actual immunity to physical attacks.Perhaps it's just the 1E experience written deep down to us, that keeps the mindset against normal weapons. (Well... that, and common sense)
You are correct Zug, the only place that suggests the swarms work as we expect from 1e is in the swarms trait description. Where it says that the swarm "functions as" a single creature. 'Function' can be interpreted multiple ways, and until errata'd I expect there to be a lot of table variance on it.
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Sorry, should have made it clearer the DC for the Grab Edge was 30, (which is where the DC=30 in the comments came from), it is also to climb the canal walls. In setting simple DCs Core Rulebook pg. 503 we get
Proficiency
and Athletics climb we have simple climb tasks:
So this is either rock wall, but it's also wet and slippery, so in simple DCs, it says Master DC is DC=30. That's how I arrived at the DC, which I guess is about right, unless a more experienced GM guides me otherwise.
In addition, Birgids hands are both being used, weapon & shield, so only a critical success would have enabled Birgid to Grab an Edge.
I think the same for Duvik, not sure whether he is weilding his shield or has it stashed away. If it's not wielded, then Duvik cannot use raise shield reaction.
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As someone who has run just about every adventure in 2nd, including the APs, the big question is just how far down is that water? I ask, because it looks 5 feet, based on the staircases to it. If that is the case, as a medium sized creature can attack from such height difference. I would make a DC assumption based on level, not the simple DC descriptors. (also, at this level range, Expert is impressive DCs. Master is a "you gonna fail. Period." And since I in reality, a not horribly athletic person, can pull myself up over the lip of a 5 foot tall stone wall, I would also have to recommend going by level.)
The book, on page 503, also calls out specifically "Because there isn’t much gradation between the simple DCs, they don’t work as well for hazards or combatants, where the PCs’ lives are on the line; you’re better off using level-based DCs for such challenges."
Using DC's by level, if the scenario does not call out a DC, I could easily see an argument for it to use the middle-high tier ranges. (level 3 or 4) so an 18 or 19, which puts it in the ability range for those with free hands.
As for Brigid's case, I can also see the argument for not catching the edge still, because no free hands. However, back to water depth as well. If it's 5 feet deep, Brigid can stand, strike, athletics to swim to stay where she is, or move half her speed in direction of choice. (those last two can be reversed.) If more than 5 feet deep. Brigid will need to Athletics first to reach surface, and then can still strike, before athletics to stay put or move.
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Additional question, you mention 9 strikes in description for the crit athletics? Is that saying that there were 9 attempts to athletics? Because, sadly, in 2e it doesn't work that way. A readied action consumes one of the users actions, and it then ends their turn, but let's them spend ONE action for the readied attempt (so one cannot ready a spell for instance.) Ready an action page 470 in the book as well.
Or, were you referring to the previous nine attempts at hitting that failed? Just making sure I understood.
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So, from the description of the room, the stairs do have a 1:1 slope (5 feet horizontally is 5 feet vertically). It's only one square of steps down to the surface of the water, so I don't think it could be more than a 5 foot drop. You only take falling damage when falling more than 5 feet, and falling into water means you treat the fall as 20 feet shorter than it actually was (or up to the depth of the water, whichever is shorter). So, I don't think Duvid or Birgid should take any damage from the fall (or be knocked prone as a result).
To add on to what Liger said about level-based DCs, I also am not sure that a rock wall is the appropriate thing to target here. Birgid and Duvik would presumably be trying to catch themselves on the walkway, which may or may not have railings, instead of the wall. Birgid's lack of a free hand means she's still probably out of luck, but Duvik might be okay if he rolls a critical success. Still can only do free actions on your turn unless it has a trigger. :(
sorry for this but i'm stuck in bed at the moment so it's either get real deep into the rules or doomscroll on twitter
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So, I don't think Duvid or Birgid should take any damage from the fall (or be knocked prone as a result).
It is possible it was not from falling normally, but rather from a creature special ability. Some have the equivalent of "do trip/grapple/shove/whatever. if critically succeed, you also do X amount of damage" type abilities. Which is why i did not call that part out.
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Duvik is wielding his scythe, not his warhammer and shield. I think, since taking a hand off a weapon is a free action, I can at least attempt the reaction.
unfortunately, you can only take one free-action or reaction in response to the same trigger. So falling off the edge trigger means you can either try to catch the ledge, OR take hand off your scythe.
"You can use only one action in response to a given trigger. For example, if you had a reaction and a free action that both had a trigger of “your turn begins,” you could use either of them at the start of your turn—but not both"
core rulebook, page 46
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Clarity:
The bridge guys had 1 action to move, 2 actions to ready, then the reaction to try and push when enemy comes in range. The readied action goes off as a reaction and they keep their place in the round.
Liger thanks for that, with the DC for edge grabbing, will reduce DC to 18, doesn't alter Birgid's grab edge, no free hand. Only a critical success would allow the edge to be grabbed. Just found some DCs on pg 515, climb masonry is 20, then add +3 for slippery/wet, so DC=23 actually feels the right level.
The crit success on the push, 2 nat 20s, the push goes to 10ft, hence grabbing the edge on the wall not the bridge/stairs. I literally see these as stairs, no balustrade, there's no need for one.
The water is only 5 ft deep, it only takes 5ft off the fall not 20ft, water only takes the depth of the water off the fall if less than 20ft. You do land prone from the fall, from what I've read on falls. so the fall is 15ft - 5ft is 10ft.
However, got the damage wrong had the fall to the bottom of the water, 15ft, but I guess it's to when you hit the water which is 10ft, in which case no damage from the fall. Thus you are not prone.
Walking in the water, treat as greater difficult terrain, using terrain rules pg 514, so walking in water like swimming pool difficult, but with current become greater difficult. Also re-adjusted the positions of Birgid and Duvik as current comes into effect at the end of their turn.
I know it's kind of harsh, but cinematically it's a great scene, which I don't think you will have difficulty with completing.
The heroes are surprised by the reaction of robed man, his guards quickly send a hail of arrows towards the heroes. The warriors run up the stairs across the fast flowing water only to be resisted and thrown in the canal. The heroes retaliate with their magics, only for their small but deadly wizard to get riddled with arrows. The heroes regroup and go again .....
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@Deevor You are correct that Heal is 1D8+1. Harm, however, is only 1D8. Erryn was correct on their numbers.
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Question about the movement thing:
Difficult terrain is any terrain that impedes your movement, ranging from particularly rough or unstable surfaces to thick ground cover and countless other impediments. Moving into a square of difficult terrain (or moving 5 feet into or within an area of difficult terrain, if you’re not using a grid) costs an extra 5 feet of movement. Moving into a square of greater difficult terrain instead costs 10 additional feet of movement. This additional cost is not increased when moving diagonally. You can’t Step into difficult terrain.
From my reading, if I'm leaving an area of difficult terrain there's no movement penalty, only for entering the area. Is that not correct?
EDIT: just thought of a second question. Does Birgid benefit from concealment as well thanks to the darkness?
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@Deevor Release (aka dropping) is a free action in 2e. (it was a full action in the playtest, and got met with a lot of consternation for it, so they rolled that back.)
As Duvik was dropping, not stowing/sheathing/ etc. the weapon. he had it right.
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[1] From steps by water, diagonal to normal square, 5ft movement into normal square.
[2] Normal square enter bridge costs 10ft of movement, movement since start of stride = 15ft
You have 20ft of movement, but need 25ft to move onto the second bridge square. So you need to stride for a 2nd time to get within 5ft of the rebel fighters by the bridge.
So you have to Stride -> Stride -> Strike the red rebel that was struck and killed, (which means you end up within 5ft of the red rebel, as your weapon has 5ft reach). With your intention to move towards the grey robed guy, you moved east as far as possible.
You cannot Strike halfway through a Stride, unless you have some special feat or something, (if one exists in 2e).
Even if you did end up further on, where you placed Birgid, the actions would still be the same, it's just the rebel might end up in a different square, having gone Stride - Strike(Push) - ?? not sure what the last action would have been. Probably stride back to the position by the bridge, just would not have readied an action.
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@Liger .. I had to use an action to drop in a different 2e game, so I guess the confusion goes on....
In essence, it makes little difference to the way things have/will pan out, so will leave as it is. On the bright side, the rebels lost at least 3 strikes for this, so alls fair in love and war.
Very fair, and not surprising people are mixing it up. As the change was not called out in a post for the final print, but making it into an action for the playtest WAS in a blog-post.
So, for future games, if anyone tries to tell you it's an action, you can refer them to page 470 in the core :)
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Yeah she seems pretty confident. I'd say arresting her is our best bet currently, and then go warn the king that a Razmiran-backed rebellion is brewing.
Not sure Birgid could be convinced any other course is reasonable, given that the subjects not hiding underground appear to be more or less content with Edyrd's rule, and Chops' complaints were mostly about taxes.
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I'm not sure why we have to do much to stop Jake, since he was prone, tied up, and surrounded. Did my intimidate check have no effect either?
Jake was not tied up, Manny who was next to him said he didn't want him to be, so that he could cast charm Jake without the guy feeling threatened. Otherwise the charm would have failed and the charm was a crit success so he was helpful. Narrative also had Jake, going over and sitting on the barrels kicking his feet, during his interaction with Manny, so you would know he was not restrained.
Also other than tell Nalla she shouldn't lead a rebellion, you have not given her another option for compromise, suggestions welcome.
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He shrugs and begins to tie up the sleeping Firebrand
That's what I was referring to since it was the first thing before he got the spell cast on him. Jake would have been valuable as an eye witness to the Razmiran schemes, even if he wasn't integral to them, so it's kind of annoying that he was able to just walk off without anyone even being allowed to tell him to stop.
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So from where I'm sitting, Nalla's position is really, really weak. She just found out in the second-worst (since she didn't get killed) way that Harsus has pretty much completely supplanted her. She was standing right there and every would-be rebel defied her to follow Harsus' lead with no hesitation. She's very clearly not leading anything, so I don't know why we would negotiate with her as though she is. Or why the king would either.
It does seem like some sort of revolution is still on, since there are other rebel cells hidden elsewhere and the evil wizard escaped. There's nothing to suggest that Nalla has any more control over those groups than she did this one, so we should assume the Razmiran(s) are running this particular show. That suggests that if the rebellion succeeds, Edyrd will just be replaced by the lackeys of everyone's least favorite MLM wizard-tyrant.
GM, could we make Diplomacy checks to emphasize just how bad the situation is for Nalla right now? Maybe suggest that thwarting a Razmiran-backed uprising would earn her some political capital to push for reform? Maybe help her present herself as some sort of folk hero able to speak for those who are feeling discontented...? IDK I'm spitballing, right now she just seems to be someone who's had all of her leverage taken away.