Kybern's page

What a thing to get SO mad about. It probably has to do with the budget for the sickened condition, which is probably why you're so interested in it, which means they probably made the right decision, which they probably arrived at through playtesting, which everyone around here seems to be forgetting with every thread complaining about how every class doesn't have full training with every weapon like they'd rather be playing GURPS or something. But I digress

You whinge that "ohhh, it costs two actions and I might lose them and the focus point if I miss" but you might just as well hit (especially if you stack the deck with frightened or combine the spell with spellstrike and attack a flat-footed foe), which means sickened 1 (no secondary save, as with ray of enfeeblement) or you might crit (again, especially if you tweak the odds), in which case they're sickened 2 and slowed 1 as long as they're sickened which a lot of people forget (but not you, I bet) sickened doesn't go away automatically like frightened does. Yeah, that's a steal for 2 actions and 1 focus point, which means you do it every fight. lol

Don't know what makes you think I'm mad, I'm just genuinely curious as to why this is the only base wizard focus spell (out of 9) that costs 2 actions.

Kybern wrote:

It's an attack,

That right there. The vast majority of offense spells are 2 actions.

The other damaging spells are Force Bolt - which is based on Magic Missile, which can also be cast for one action if desired; and Hand of the Apprentice - which is replicating a ranged Strike with a thrown weapon, which is also one action.

Call of the Grave looks a lot like Ray of Enfeeblement (without having both an attack roll and a Fortitude save) - and Ray of Enfeeblement is a 2 action spell.

The rest look to me like they are defense or buff spells.

Warped Terrain can be cast for 2 or 3 actions too.

Why is Charming Words only one action then? It's a debuff spell just like Call of the Grave, except it targets Will and thus has an effect even on a successful save.

And those defense or buff focus spells? All are 1 action. Why? Most defense and buff spells are 2 actions too.

And Hand of the Apprentice is an attack SPELL, for which it should be 2 actions, as you said: "The vast majority of offense spells are 2 actions."

As for Ray of Enfeeblement, it's kind of a moot point to compare it to that, since it is generally considered one of the worst offensive spells in the game. This post could've just as well been about why Ray of Enfeeblement is so bad.

This seems like an error/oversight.

It isn't even exceptionally good to make up for the 2 action cost.
It's an attack, so both the 2 actions and the focus point are utterly wasted on a miss, something that is more than likely to happen as a wizard.
It has only 30 ft range, which means not only does the wizard risk wasting resources for potentially no reward, but he also has to put himself in danger for just the attempt.

Kybern wrote:

Essentially my question is:

Do the game designers make a difference in nomenclature when it comes to "rolling" a degree of success and "getting" a degree of success?

I think this is still an open question that hasn't been clarified yet.

Some similar places that it comes up is in the Assurance skill feat interacting with other abilities that change the result of a rolled skill check, and bonuses to damage rolls (such as from Inspire Courage and Stoke the Heart) interacting with fixed amounts of damage such as from Daze, damage from certain types of bombs, and splash damage.

Very interesting. Thanks for the background info. I'll be attentively waiting to see if they clarify this. Hopefully the announced bi-yearly rules errata will help with this.

As for Spellbook Prodigy, I would probably run it that the feat modifies the standard results of Learn a Spell.

So normally if you fail, you can't learn the spell until you gain a level. And if you critically fail you additionally waste half of the materials.

So with the feat if your result is a critical failure you get the standard Learn a Spell failure result - you can't learn the spell until you gain a level. And if your result is a failure, you get the new fail result - you can't learn the spell until a week has passed.

But that interpretation is certainly able to be disagreed with.

Yea this was my feeling as well. But it does make the Magical Shorthand feat (which is also a lvl 2 feat) a lot better, since it applies to both normal and critical fails and also has the additional benefits.

I have a question about some of the wording in the Spellbook Prodigy feat.

I looked both on the paizo forums and reddit, but couldn't find anything about it, which is pretty astounding since it's been in the game for so long.

Specifically, the feat has the wordings "when you ROLL a critical failure", "you GET a failure" and "when you ROLL a failure".

Does this mean that if I ROLL a critical failure on the Learn a Spell action and GET a failure instead, I would not be allowed to repeat the Learn a Spell after 1 week, as I would be if I had ROLLED a failure instead?

Essentially my question is:
Do the game designers make a difference in nomenclature when it comes to "rolling" a degree of success and "getting" a degree of success?

Is "getting a failure" different from "rolling a failure"?

One can also compare the Spellbook Prodigy feat with the Magical Shorthand feat, which is a very similar feat and does not make that distinction, it only speaks of "if you fail". This would clearly encompass both a normal and a critical failure.

Same as if a Sprite or Toy Poppet player character grapples a creature.

Though by default, they could only do that to small size creatures such as Halflings, Goblins, or Gnomes. Being size Tiny and grappling a medium size creature would require the Titan Wrestler feat - that familiar's can't get.

And this is no different than an Orc player character being able to grapple an Adult Black Dragon, but would need the Titan Wrestler feat in order to grapple an Adult Blue Dragon.

Grapple and Grab are different actions. Successfully grappling leads to the grabbed or restrained condition (depending on crit). Successfully grabbing leads to the grabbed condition.

The main difference is that the Grapple is a skill action available to everyone, while the Grab is a monster action only available to monsters with specific features.

In any case, the Tiny Crawling Hand does have that feature and can Grab. But I really dunno how it could immobilize someone. But RAW it would.

Slightly off topic, but still about the "grabbed" condition and about some of the logic surrounding it:

If a creature is "grabbed" it is also "immobilized". So if a Crawling Hand grabs a creature, is it also immobilized? How does that make sense?

Kybern wrote:

Xethik wrote:

There is a confirmed blog post on the topic of issuing errata and FAQs in the new year.

That is great news! Could you maybe link it please?

Aaron Shanks and Michael Sayre talk about changes to the errata process, and how there'll be a blog post going into detail found HERE.

Thanks a lot!

There is a confirmed blog post on the topic of issuing errata and FAQs in the new year.

That is great news! Could you maybe link it please?

Sorry for necroing, but I still haven't gotten some of my questions answered.

Also, does anyone know if/when we are getting a FAQ and/or Errata for the Book of the Dead? Is it only when Paizo reprint it? And if so, does anyone know when that would be?

Finally, after playing some of the Book of the Dead's content, I really would like to echo this post I saw here: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43m3c?Shambling-Horror-is-Broken#1

The level 12 feat Master of the Dead gives access to the Shambling Horror focus spell, which seems very thematic and fun at first glance, but in practice is pretty useless or unusable. The reason for this is that it is actually quite rare to face enemies that are 4 levels below you.

I only see 2 ways of fixing the spell:

1) Either the spell is rewritten in a way that it can be cast on corpses of higher level enemies, while still using a skeleton/zombie stat block that is 4 levels lower than the caster. This however adds the balancing issue of the higher level enemies' abilities, that the shambling horror keeps, but that obviously make the spell a lot more powerful as a result. So this solutions seems impractical.

2) Or the limitation of only being able to recast the spell on corpses until the next sunrise after their death is removed (I would only change the "sunrise" rule for the spell's recasting, the original casting can still be required before the next sunrise). This seems like the easiest fix, that both keeps the spell balanced and also reinforces the "corpse collector" fantasy for necromancers.

2) Note that both Bonds and Effortless Concentration both grant the character the benefit of the Sustain action. This foes not mean you can substitute that sustain action with another ability which grants the same action. That said, I don't see any conflict with both being used on separate turns.

What I mean is, can the Effortless Concentration free action be used to perform the one sustain action required by Bonds of Death?

4) Eyes of the Dead:

Does this spell require me to see my target?

Page 302 of the CRB states that all spells that target "a creature, an object, or something that fits a more specific category" require the caster to be in range and to be able to see it.

However, there are numerous spells that do not follow that rule like Nightmare, Dream Message, Dream Council, etc which all do not explicitly state that vision of the target is not required.

Also, it is worth noting that the spell Familiar's Face, which resembles Eyes of the Dead a lot, explicitly states that vision of the target is not required.

Is there a Book of the Dead errata and/or FAQ? I can't find anything in the errata/faq section nor any subforum to that effect.

Here are a few features I have questions about:

1) Sepulchral Sublimation:

What exactly counts as "permanently control"? Does that refer to the duration of the control itself (as one would expect)? Or does it also include the duration of the undead minion's existence?

Sepulchral Sublimation obviously applies to undead created by the Create Undead ritual, since the undead minions created that way are permanently under your control and their existence is permanent.

And for some forms of control Sepulchral Sublimation quite clearly does not apply: the spells Shadow Zombie, Bind Undead and Subjugate Undead are clearly time limited control spells where the undead still exist (and then act "uncontrolled") after the spells end.

However, there are some spells that are edge cases where it is less clear if Sepulchral Sublimation could work: Animate Dead and Shambling Horror summon/create an undead minion that ceases to exist after the spell ends. As such the control over those undead minions is permanent. IF permanent control in this case only refers to the time frame of the minion's existence.

2) Bonds of Death:

How does this Reanimator feat interact with the Effortless Concentration wizard feat?
As I read it, Effortless Concentration would apply, since it gives the benefit of the "Sustain a Spell" action, which is what Bonds of Death also refers to when granting its effect.

3) Deathly Secrets:

The wording "If you don't already have one, you gain a focus pool of 1 Focus Point" of this Reanimator feat is quite confusing.

Does this mean I don't get an additional Focus Point if I already have a Focus Pool? And if not, doesn't this contradict the rule on page 302 of the CRB "Focus Points from multiple sources"? Since it states that any ability that gives a Focus Pool will increase the number of Focus Points you have by 1 if you already have a Focus Pool.