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Cap. Darling wrote:

Yes completely rules legal is not nessesarily the focus a GM need. The gun paladin is a slow starter and depending on what gun he uses he Will stay slow. A musket Will keep his shooting to max 2 shots even at High levels f. eks. A pebber box pistol is a nice holy gun. but if you make sure they figth lot of evil stuff he Can stay in the game.

Alright cool, thanks. I'll keep this all in mind. Thank you all for your advice and patience I'm sure I'll be back soon with another question eventually. Until then happy gaming.


Arturius Fischer wrote:
The more-complicated approach bends the rules a bit. Find a Small Construct race (a Wyrwood, perhaps), give it 1-3 levels of Gunslinger, and just visually 're-skin' it as a turret. Simply don't allow it to move. This lets you have Perception checks and other possible things like Rapid Shot and whatnot, as well as a decent AC and Hit Points. When it dies, the 'turret' is destroyed, and the PC's can ...

This is a wonderful idea and thank you for your kind words. I just really don't wanna screw this up and it's stressing; I've gotten really attached to this idea of doing everything completely rules legal and whatnot, perhaps I've got to relax a bit.


Cap. Darling wrote:
Feel free to ignore me but WBL at 3 is 3000 gp what kind of +1gun is not worth more than 3000 gp?

You know what? You're entirely correct :( I'm completely wrong.

I've given a bit more wbl to compensate for there only being two of them. I forgot how freakin' expensive guns are. Gah! GMing is a lot to take care of mentally, and since it's all of our first time doing this all around I've goofed up.

Thank you for pointing that out. If you were me, how would you go about (from a gm to a player) not further making the paladin feel left out? The magus has "all those options" (cantrips, spellstrike, spell combat, spells in general" and the paladin has... Smiting shot and lay on hands. He has more hp, better saves, and better ac on top of hitting more often but he says all he does is heal and shoot.

I've tried offering him the chance to change classes, but he doesn't want to 'admit defeat'.


Cap. Darling wrote:
JupiterOfTheSky wrote:

...

Animate objects works; the rules are sort of loose on that... In a perfect world my players survive the duration or break the gun, and either way I'd like to give it to the Holy Gun Paladin in the group since in the same dungeon the Blackblade Magus is finding his sword and I don't want any inequality.

...

I will just repeat the Warning giving the paladin a magic item that alone takes him above WBL is a bit unequal. Unless the magus got a magic belt for the lay on hands, and a pair gloves for smite as well as a cloak for divine grace. At level 3 they shouldent be very different exept the magus May have more skills and the paladin pehaps have better social skills. Unless of cause they have very different stat values.

Which I typically agree with; yet in this specific instance allow me to reiterate, for the record, that THIS DOES NOT PUT THE PALADIN ABOVE WBL. Also I think your comparison of all the paladin item class abilities is wrong, if well meaning. The players are going to be level 3. The Magus is getting a sword. The paladin is getting himself a gun, As a 'Holy Gun' paladin.

I'm not giving it to him to 'balance the class ability', I'm giving it to him so he'll have a new weapon for the first time since we started. It is not unequal since THE MAGUS IS GETTING LOOT OTHER THAN THE SWORD. I just want the Pally's loot to also include a weapon.


Third Mind wrote:

Iron or steel, Hardness 10, HP 30/in. of thickness

Mithral, Hardness 15, HP 30/in. of thickness
Adamantine, Hardness 20, HP 40/in. of thickness

You'd probably have to guess on how thick it is I think.

Thank you! Also other guy below him, thanks for the table for future reference!


Dafydd wrote:
JupiterOfTheSky wrote:
I'd like to give it to the Holy Gun Paladin in the group since in the same dungeon the Blackblade Magus is finding his sword and I don't want any inequality.

Just a note, since no one else has pointed it out. You want to use loot to balance class abilities? This can be a rather slippery slope. Either, you give this gun to the paladin, saying that the magus's class abilities do not matter, or you will not go far enough and it is like that monopoly card "Win $10 for coming in second at the beauty contest."

The balancing factor in the black blade is that it is inelegant and not a slave to the magus's will. It can even force the magus unless they are careful.

Moving on now, a +1 Dancing (fill in gun type) with a permanent Reloading Hands. The reloading hands could end up being damaged as the party shuts down the turret. Or just make it a +1 firearm wielded by an animate object arm. Again, Reloading Hands in the arm, not the firearm. Considering the cost of firearms, a +1 of whatever the paladin was going to use is a big financial boon anyway.

The gun will be a broken +1 gun. This is their first ever d&d experience and the paladin already feels outclassed by the magus, as it's just them two. In order to prevent a further perceived disparity, and since I believe a +1 gun is appropriate at the junction quest between levels 2 and 3.

The reloading hands spell is part of the trap but is separated with it's own Contingency spell and thus is a one-duration event that does not follow the gun with the player. Furthermore it is not 'dancing' (although I expected it to be).

However as a new dm, in the future I'll very well keep your advice in mind. I appreciate t greatly.


avr wrote:
Animate Object? Or you could refluff some damaging spell as the gun.

Animate objects works; the rules are sort of loose on that... In a perfect world my players survive the duration or break the gun, and either way I'd like to give it to the Holy Gun Paladin in the group since in the same dungeon the Blackblade Magus is finding his sword and I don't want any inequality.

Is there a spot in any book that gives generic hardness/hp for things like a floating gun?...


In an abandoned arcane research facility, I wish to have a gun that animates itself as a turret at the end of one of the rooms act as an encounter. Logically (I thought) this would be as simple as an Alarm spell treated with Permanency triggering a Contingency spell that caused a Gun to animate similar to the 'dancing' weapon special ability. However I've hit a few snags you've probably already perceived; first and foremost, I can't find a spell on the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list that animates a gun to fight on it's own. Any advice or things I've overlooked?


Soooo. I'm having a lot of trouble finding this aktonian blade thing. Google has been no help. I'm thinking thus far, however, that dipping Ninja (the weirdest thing I've ever written) and taking a handful of monk Levels (probably six) would let me round everything out with Fighter levels (not necessarily needing to be dragoon archetype); or just go Monk if I can somehow wield a spear with it.


shadowhntr7 wrote:

Short answer? Yes! Yes it is!

I actually just built one myself, a grippli unchained monk. Recent Player's Companions have had two pieces of love for it: the Akitonian Blade from Melee Tactic Toolbox (triples Acrobatics to jump) and the Branch Pounce feat from Heroes of the Wild. A climb speed is also helpful to get yourself up on a wall or ceiling pre-charge.

With Rod of Balance, Akitonian Blade, and the High Jump ki power you'll really only be limited by your movement speed, which is another reason why monk is going to be the best choice. There's also a pair of ninja tricks (Acrobatic Master and High Jumper iirc) that let you halve the DC to jump, as well as an option for the unchained rogue to add +level to jumps.

Awesome! I'll look into them both. Do you end up using a lance? The ninja trick is not a bad idea... I'm glad Monk was the right direction.


When Ultimate Combat was released with the Fighter archetype of the same name, I was highly excited; It used a lance and the 15th level ability is very appropriate. However I mostly want the 'Jump' ability. I want to look at a Dragon, a Giant, or other such huge monster, jump in the sky and spear it. Now with Unchained I thought perhaps fighter VMC monk for the ki pool to acrobatics would allow me to use the ki pool to make such amazing leaps, then use 'Death from Above' (the feat) to charge downward if I leapt high enough. However I don't get Ki until level 11, don't get the Ki power to do such things, etc. I don't mind multiclassing at all if necessary, but it's been a huge dream of mine since 3.5 (which I later found out had the class somewhere deep in the game).

So I come to you, Pathfinder experts. Is this even possible?


Has anyone built one? I'm thinking about making a campaign around a criminal-ish, "Ocean's 11" type of group; I have other prepared classes in mind, but the Mastermind is the primary one I really wish to include. Having no experience yet with the class, I wondered if anyone here has playtested it or theorycrafted a build to any degree. I'd appreciate any feedback so I can begin to build the campaign's world around such abilities it would bring to the table.

For reference, there is no wrong answer. I build my campaigns once I know the classes being played, and I do have a ban list of classes, so we don't need to worry about things such as "Wizard/Arcanist does it better".


I personally think Dimensionnal Slide is way better than Energy Sheild, and I'm playing an Arcanist right now where it's the most useful trick I have (and so cheap).


Dread Knight wrote:
No there is a difference between Race Traits and Racial Traits, Race Traits which you can select with Adopted are things like the Elves' Warrior of Old or Dwarves' Brewmaster not Racial Traits the things you get/can choose to get for being that Race like Slow and Steady, Human's bonus feat, or Keen Senses.

Okay, cool. So I'll stick with reactionary. Where can I find these non-Racial race traits? Advanced Race Guide?


Making human slayer, and GM is letting us use trait rules, so we get two traits. I'm taking the obvious Reactionary (Quick Draw, Surprise Attack should let me do early damage each combat). For my second trait, I was looking at the list of Social traits and saw 'Adopted'. Would that allow me to take the elf Racial trait 'Fleet-Footed', granting Run as a bonus feat and giving me an additional +2 to initiative? Can I really start with a ghetto Improved Initiative?


I am currently playing an Arcanist, which is obviously not divine. For flavor I'm playing him as a necromancer and his class skills fit quite well with the 'save or suck' style of play Arcane necromancers seem to use. 'Potent Magic', I think it's called, is great; whenever you use an Arcane Point to up the DC or CL of a spell, increase it by +2 instead of by +1. This allows you to start off with a Persistent Metamagic imbued spell like Enervate or Bestow Curse on big baddies then follow up with now easy to land spells like Ray of Enfeeblement with lower DC's. For mooks, you have cool things you'd do normally like Black Tentacles or Web. A quicken metamagic rod is great for True Strike so your rays never miss. I can't help much with Miniomancy builds, but I can confidently say I've had very few problems with my Arcanist Necromancer so far.


Artemis Moonstar wrote:

First things first, this kind of thread should be in the advice section.

Looks pretty fun to me. Just remember that using posions as a PC is generally ill-advised. Trust me, I've been trying for years to build a hyper-effective poisoner. Best I've got is a Nagaji Alchemist that goes into Daggermark Poisoner ASAP.

That said.... Just play what you wanna play. In general, if you're running in an AP, you don't need to be optimized to be effective. AP's are built for the party to win, which annoys me, rather than being particularly challenging.

Just... Beware later levels, when things start getting god awfule high fort saves, and pure immunity to poison... Makes me cry.

That's fair! Thanks for telling me; I wasn't really looking for 'advice' though. I honestly had no idea where to put it so 'General Discussion' it went. Anyone else build alchemists and have good experience? I've never run an adventure path.


Hi! I'm Jupiter. I've played 3.5 and more recently Pathfinder the past few years with the same guys. Lately only one of them is on my level (however high or low that is) and I've sorely lacked people to talk to. Happy to be here.

I am currently obsessed with alchemists and have two builds in the air for my next campaign. I always try to plan 1-20 so bear with me; to save you time I'll just go with feat/discovery progression.

First, my 'Scarecrow' build. He's a human Alchemist. If someone can teach me how to link to google docs I have a fully built Level 10 sheet. Until Then:

1. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Throw Anything, Brew Potion
2. Smoke Bomb
3. Explosive Bomb
4. Immolation Bomb
5. Master Alchemist
6. Explosive Missile
7. Concentrate Poison
8. Dispelling Bomb
9. Confusion Bomb
10. Stink Bomb

He's built to model the terror of Batman's enemy 'Scarecrow' using debuffing bombs and poison bolts to confidently cripple his enemies. Later we'll do things like Madness Bomb and of course, Poison Bomb.

Next we have a character that I can't really model. If Wolverine and Snape had an illicit love child this would be it. He's a human Vivisectionist and from 1-20 we have:

1. Weapon Finesse, Toughness
2. Feral Mutagen
3. Spontaneous Healing (wait for it)
4. Lingering Spirit
5. Master Alchemist
6. Healing Touch (there we go)
7. Sticky Poison
8. Concentrate Poison
9. Bleeding Attack
10. Crippling Strike
11. Bottled Ooze
12. Greater Mutagen
13. Combine Extracts
14. Dilution
15. Extend Potion
16. Grand Mutagen
17. Elixer of Life
18. Eternal Potion
19. Enhance Potion
20. Preserve Organs, Mummification, Philosopher's Stone

Basically a regenerative, death defying Rogue substitute that uses swift (sticky) application of Concentrated Poisons to cripple foes with easy to achieve sneak attacks. This build is my baby right now. I may Bottle Oozes sooner because they're fun flank buddies and hardly notice you when you're invisible. Whatcha think, Paizo Community?