JollyCooperation's page

~Attention~
This is not a cleric vs. x thread. Please do not treat it as such. Thank you in advance.

I've been looking over cleric ideas for the past couple weeks, and I'm not quite understanding the cleric. They have a channel ability that doesn't seem to have a lot of use. Healing spells, other than those that restore levels or damaged ability scores, seem to be largely ignored unless absolutely necessary. Domains are pretty much the bread and butter of the class, and almost everything else is salt and peppered in for flavor. I'm going to list some questions that focus on the factors that seem most prominent to me, and I accept any contributions you have to this topic.

1) If the focus of a cleric's spell list is summoning, curing, and buffs, why would you focus on anything else when other classes can do what a blast cleric, battle cleric, archer cleric, or any other cleric can do, but better?

2) If there's not really a need for cure spells when other classes have them, why play a cleric in the first place? Summoners can summon better than clerics, and bards/skalds can buff better than clerics, which essentially runs this question back to the whole, why play a cleric if they're not needed?

3) I've read up on treantmonk's guides as well as looked on the forum, and the general consensus is that preventative magics (stuff that wizards and similar arcane casters can do) are superior to reactive magics. Is there something a cleric can do that counters this perspective?

Again, this is not a "cleric vs. x" thread. Please stay away from the want to start unnecessary arguments. I truly want this to be a constructive and beneficial conversation between you guys and I. Clerics are one of my favorite classes in the game, and I would very much like to see how they can be properly used in the game.

Thank you in advance.

My dad used a DMPC that was essentially one of his characters that he used to play back in 1e and 2e. Larry Spitfire was his name, a Lawful Good wizard who had been rescued from the depths of hell, and as a result of the torture he had gone through, was kind of a little bonkers.

Long story short, this guy was a level 27 wizard/archmage and often times, he'd be off doing his own thing, fighting baddies, defending Shadowdale, that kind of stuff. But occasionally, he'd join us on our adventures.

There were a couple times when he would actually need our help in doing something. During one puzzle, we were in a giant cavernous room with a pillar in the center, and a bunch of switches and dancing lights placed in a circular pattern. Long story short, he kept blasting the pillar with some kind of energy beam, (I think it was spellfire) while we'd have to direct the switches, and our wizard and bard would control and adjust the dancing lights and what not. Monsters would come out of cracks in the walls so our beat sticks would cover our backs, and the cleric would use a wand we'd found that could keep Larry alive while he kept blasting the pillar. Apparently, cure wounds wands didn't work on him for some reason. That wand could also not work on us...but damn he has a lot of health.

-----------------------

So, here is an example of a character who traveled alongside us, who didn't need equipment, who we could go to if we needed answers or support in some way, and was always at our complete and utter disposal. He had legit reasons not to be with us at all times, but if he was available, and we needed him, he was always a Bat Call (Arcane mark his sigil in the sky) away. Sometimes, he'd even give us our own quests to do because he simply lacked the time to do them. Suffice to say he had a vendetta against Hell/Abyss/every other realm of evil in the universe.

Bump

What spells besides Haunting Mist do you think would work with the above? That is without adding tenebrous or umbral spell.

Also, short of taking a rogue level and going the Arcane Trickster route, what ways could I add damage to these spells besides metamagic feats?

Sorry for the late reply.

I'm guessing that the Skill at Arms entry to EK is something best left for late game?

Even with feat taxes taken into account, I'm getting the vibe that it'd simply be best to take a one level martial dip, and then build around that rather than sacrifice half of your feats just so one can gain early entry.

The rest of this thread can be for discussion. I am satisfied.

@sunnychoco and avr - thank you for your help. I appreciate it.

Okay, I've been racking my brain since this morning to see what I could do with the above idea, and I'm frustrated a little.

Perameters:
25 point buy
All Paizo allowed
3rd level Arcane Casting of full casters (wizard, sorcerer, witch, or arcanist)
VMC Battle Oracle - 3rd level revelation: Skill At Arms
2 traits or 3 with drawback
Feat Taxes are in effect
Background skills are in effect

Rather than overwhelm myself with ideas, I'm going to need some Jolly Cooperation from you folks so I can figure out what I should do.

Honestly, I don't want damage(s) builds. I see gish everywhere on the forums. I'd like a melee arcane battlefield controller mixed with support who CAN make things hurt if he absolutely needs to.

Note: The party has yet to be established so I know not of whom I will be supporting. Thank you guys and gals, in advance.

Cancel this.

Do not respond.

I'm having a bit of trouble picking out a spell to use for a transmutation EK. My build, so far, is as follows. I'll be starting at 5th level and might go to 13. Point buy is 25, and I'm aiming for a polymorph build. Feat taxes are in place.

Humwn Wizard 5/EK ~ vmc Battle Oracle

Str 10
Dex 16 (transmutation bonus applied here)
Con 14
Int 18 (level bonuses go here)
Wis 10
Cha 10

Curse: ?
Revelation: Skill at Arms

Feats
Favored Prestige Class
Prestigious Spellcaster (starting with these for now)

Arcane bond: Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists

Typing from my phone so pardon the language.

I like that you covered my bases, but any ideas as to what I could put in its place?

Any other suggestions?

So far, I'm thinking my feat trees for the eidolon and character will be as such:

Summoner (human)
H - Combat Reflexes
1 - Deft Maneuvers
3 - ?
5 - Improved Spell Sharing (Teamwork)
7 - ?

Traits:
Heirloom Weapon - (Insert Dex reach weapon, probably elven branched spear)
?

Eidolon - (thinking azata might be best)
1 - Combat Reflexes
3 - Powerful Maneuvers
6 - Improved Spell Sharing (Teamwork)

I didnt even know that one existed. Thank you for the mention. Is it new?

So, the idea is that the character's eidolon is a mirror of himself. I'm going with the sub par melee summoner idea here, so optimization is not absolutely paramount in this discussion. Here's what I've got to work with.

All of Paizo
20 point buy
Feat Taxes
And the DM has not disclosed what kind of campaign he is running, nor what kind of creatures we'll face
Starting level is 1st and will go to 8 or 10.
Oh! I'm going with the Spirit Summoner, and the Battle Mystery.

Any suggestions?

I was thinking the summoner could go with a dex build focusing on support and forcing enemies into AoOs while the eidolon is str focused and has the potential to support if needed, but otherwise is the source of the damage.

Then again, this is my first time building a summoner, so I really have no idea what I'm doing. Yes, I know summoners are overpowered. I would simply like to try something my friends haven't done before.

Honestly, if he wants to try the build, and likes the idea of it, let him. We don't know what his friends are like. We don't know what kind of person he is or what his DM is like. Telling someone not to do something they would like to try is...not right. If he makes a mistake, so be it. If the group thinks he's an awesome player with a cool character, why should we stop that chance? You never know, and telling someone not to do something based off of your opinion is not needed.

Do you know how many worthless characters I've made that ended up alright? Many. I have one I'm using right now, and though he's not optimized in the least, my friends and I are still able to make him work. I'll retrain him or retire him down the road, but the mechanics of a game do not matter when you and your friends are just having fun.

Sorry for the rant. I figured I'd just put my advice here.

-peace-

I honestly think it just comes down to how a person raises a dog, and how the person acts in every day life. When a cynical paranoid individual raises a dog to rely on them and protect them, that dog isnt really going to trust anyone, and is going to lack proper social skills in order to thrive in life. Conversely, a person who is compassionate, warm to others, and raises the dog with love and affection, the dog will follow suit.

When i was four (and younger), I used to ride my weimaraner, Max, around the house. Dogs are awesome.

Has someone been reading about a certain Chicago-based Wizard? :)

I just finished Skin Games. I want a Mouse.

And this is purely curious reasons. Strictly paizo, but all of paizo.

So, I like dogs. You like dogs. We all like dogs.

Hows a human wizard to get a familiar the general shape and size of a Tibetan Mastiff?

Purely for fun, by the way. I wanna see if its possible.

Id like to make a evil doer who can either dominate a creature's body from a great distance, or replaces his soul with there's. I got the idea of this from Ghost in the Shell. Doesn't matter what level. I'm just looking for builds and options at the moment.

And before you ask, the main characters have a strong resistance to it already, though they know not why, nor that they even have it.

Thank you in advance. Oh, and I want to stick with paizo stuff. No 3rd party.

You could make the ship lighter. Is mithral lighter than wood?

Just as the title asks, can a cleric achieve what a rogue can do?

What I'm trying to do:
Stealth
Disable Devices (if not possible, I can do without)
High Burst Damage
PFS Legal
20 pt. buy