JeminiZero's page

This is with regard to the spell Dark Whispers:

https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dark%20Whispers

The Message cantrip states "The message does not have to travel in a straight line. It can circumvent a barrier if there is an open path between you and the subject, and the path’s entire length lies within the spell’s range."

In Dark Whispers, it only states "Once the spell has been cast, you don’t need to have line of effect to the targets or their shadows to communicate back and forth." But it does not mention spell range.

Does Dark Whispers continue to function, if the targets move beyond the spell range? How about if they move to different planes?

I couldn't fit the Pull-Ring into my budget and settled for boosting UMD (via Circlet of Persuasion) and a Wand of Negate Aroma. And some Scent Blockers. I *think* Jonovan should be ready.

I'll stick with the previous ruling of no craft-discount, only buy.

The follow up question being: Could Jonovan buy a Cloak of the Hunt, and then add Resistance +1 and Muleback Cords to it with Craft Wondrous Item?

Will you allow Cloak of the Hunt? (Jonovan won't be able to use the Invisibility function, not without Mythic levels anway.)

Alternatively, Pull-Ring of Scent?

So it's very reasonable! Part of my reasoning in asking was trying to determine whether that could lead to backstory connections between Jonovan and any other prospective PCs.

That's actually quite easy. Jonovan spent years wandering Tian Xia as a mercenary, so they might have met on the job, where he proved to be a reliable sorcerer. From there, any of the PCs with a sponsor could convince said sponsor to add him to the team.

He also peddled magic items on the side, so maybe they were former customers. (I'm sure Ai Lua would love a custom-made Muleback Cords of Resistance +2).

Thank you for the review. I shall dig deep into the bird's psyche....lol!

There is one thing I am curious about. From the backstory, Otani was sent to the tournament along with a dozen or so other Tengu representing Kwanlai.

If Otani is fighting for his people and nation, it would make a lot more sense if he formed a team with the compatriots sent with him. Why did he instead team up with a bunch of featherless fleshy strangers? Or perhaps while he was sent by his people and nation, his interests lie elsewhere?

Jonovan Wick's crunch is complete but I may shuffle some magic items around before the deadline.

Speaking of magic items, my apologies, I still have one more question: Can the Ring of Spell Knowledge hold Divine Spells? Specifically Negate Aroma.

Noro: I believe that Jonovan Wick is not originally from Tian Xia either. (I'm not sure exactly where, though.

Yes, he is supposed to be from Avistan (as evidenced by the fact that his base language is Common-Taldane). Because there was no way in heck I could justify a name like "Jonovan Wick" being from Tian Xia.

As to where exactly on Avistan is he from, see the next point.

Jonovan: Why, perhaps other than distance, did Jonovan decide to come to Tian Xia?

My internal reasoning would be: His hometown was frequented by a couple of Tian traders. And he did good business with them, back when he was peddling magic goods, which is also why he learnt the language. They were alright people, so when his life fell apart, Tian Xia looked like a reasonable enough far away place to flee to. Plus, he was able to call in a few favors with them, to get himself transported there.

Unfortunately, my Golarion lore is pretty poor. I don't even know if Tian Xia traders frequent any place in Avistan. So the reasoning above may be flawed.

Did he ever encounter the Boogeyman, or was it just an unfortunate coincidence in an entirely different locale?

No. The Boogeyman has not resurfaced since marrying Helen mysteriously vanishing. Clay-Mage does not know where his name-sake is, or even what he looks like. "Unfortunate coincidence in an entirely different locale" is right on the mark.

I'm also curious about the dual shadow/imperious heritage, and maybe even a hint of fey in the elven stuff. Is there something there there?

There may well be, but it hasn't been a factor in Clay-Mage's backstory or motivations. He certainly has NOT been approached by some mysterious group claiming loyalty to his Imperious royal bloodline, and seeking to restore him to some distant throne. No sirree.

Jemini - as I look (and I love the back story, truly and completely btw, it made me smile quite happily)

Thanks!

OH! That makes complete sense. Sorry for my misplaced nose poking, Jemini.

It's fine, I might have made a mistake which needs correcting after all.

If you are open to suggestions, Ant haul is open to you and at this level would last a WHILE. Or a wand at a little less and probably at an hour a pop probably would last every arena battle (my lady with her 8 strength and medium armor went that route, and if we end up as teammates would share without a worry)

That actually raises a question: What are the tournament rules on buffing before a fight? Does it depend on buff duration? Like 8hr+ buffs (like Mage Armor at this level) would be fine? But rnds/CL (like Haste) would not?

I present Jonovan Wick.

Currently only the backstory is done. The individual components of the crunch are mostly done, but I still have to compile it into the stat block format.

I would also encourage the other applicants to do the same. Do you see any common motivations or other links between your PC and another that could make for an interesting team?

Oh yes, we all want to win.

Joking aside, nobody seems to want a particular artifact. I'm guessing we all wanted to avoid the dreaded Double Dragon ending.

Given the intended spirit of the even level bonus feats, perhaps I shouldn't spend them on increasing WBL via Item Creation.

A few last questions: Do Shadow Spells which replicate spells with expensive material components still require said components? More specifically Shadow Conjuration replicating Sepia Snake Sigil or Draconic Ally.

I should have asked this earlier, but what are the contest rules regarding minions such as Familiars, Animal Companions, Animated Undead and long duration summoned creatures (like Mount and Draconic Ally)? Are they allowed?

I also agree with Jereru's take on the 24 consecutive hours bit. The focus seems to be preventing item-cycling, which is fair, not promoting bizarre and incomprehensible roleplaying situations.

I dunno, it wouldn't surprise me if the writers thought it would be funny for the high Cha Sorcerer/Oracle to also be the filthiest members of the party, like some unwashed troglodytes. =P

But yes, if my character can take off his vestment for a bath without having to re-attune, I'm fine without the tattoo.

A: Since someone else is doing the work of scribing, we'll use the rules for the Spellcasting Service of caster level x spell level x 10 gp for each spell scribed. Lv0: 5 gp, Lv1: 10 gp, Lv2: 60 gp, Lv3: 150 gp, Lv4: 280 gp, Lv5: 450 gp, Lv6: 660 gp. This is a bit more than scribing it yourself to account for the cost of ink, labor, and overhead.

Thanks for the reply!

So given that Adding Spells to a Spellbook also mentions:

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.

So the total cost for an NPC to add a spell to a spellbook would be:

Lv0: 5 gp (ink+labor) + 2.5 (spell access)
Lv1: 10 gp (ink+labor) + 5 (spell access)
Lv2: 60 gp (ink+labor) + 20 (spell access)
Lv3: 150 gp (ink+labor) + 45 (spell access)
Lv4: 280 gp (ink+labor) + 80 (spell access)
Lv5: 450 gp (ink+labor) + 125 (spell access)
Lv6: 660 gp (ink+labor) + 180 (spell access)

Is that right?

A: The costs for magical tattoos were delineated in Inner Sea Magic and should use the costs listed there. For instance, Spell Tattoos cost 4x as much as an equivalent scroll. I can't find specific text in any source I have available that says anything about slotless items costing 2x the cost of another item. All I can find is the following quote from the Gamemastery Guide:

Overall, if you can link me to published text or errata, then I'll consider it, but I'm inclined to say no.

Specifically, under the rules for Inscribe Magic Tattoo:

Magical tattoos follow the rules for magic item creation as though they were wondrous items, except that they can use the Craft (calligraphy, paintings, tattoos) skill. New magical tattoos can be researched and designed using the guidelines for pricing new magic items. Magical tattoos are treated as slotless magical items for pricing purposes.

So a Wondrous Item *should* be convertable into a Magic Tattoo that is slotless, and priced accordingly.

On the Magic Item Creation page.

An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double.

In this case, you have to infer that not taking up space on the body means slotless.

A: Wait, do GMs really say that if a PC takes a bath that they lose their magic item's benefit? The point of the 24hr attunement is supposed to be so that PCs don't just swap items around with each other to accomplish tasks, not to prevent bathing. If that's the reason for the concern, then don't worry about it.

The wording of mnemonic vestment is rather strict:

A mnemonic vestment must be worn for 24 consecutive hours before using its effects.

But if you'll allow characters to take it off for a bath (or other activities), then I won't need to convert it into a Tattoo.

I am also thinking of a Sorcerer and have a few questions.

Mnemonic Vestments and Versatile Spontaneity both allow a Sorcerer to cast from a spellbook, but do not actually grant the Sorcerer a spellbook to cast from. If we hire NPCs to copy a spellbook on our behalf, how much would it cost?

Would you allow an Imperious Sorcerer to qualify for a Bloodline Familiar? I don't need the familiar to have any additional powers based on bloodline. Just the Familiar.

If 1 item crafting feat grants 25% extra WBL, and 4 item crafting feats grant 50% extra WBL, how much extra WBL do we get in between these 2 numbers?

For stacking multiple enchantments in the same slot, do we assume that secondary enchantments beyond the first cost 50% more?

Can we buy standard items as Magic Tattoos at twice the price, as per slotless items? (It may be less cost effective, but for certain things like the Mnemonic Vestment with a 24hr attunement, it allows a character to say, take a bath without losing the items benefit).

I may or may not submit something, but I do have a few questions that I think will be on the mind of others as well.

For background purposes, is there an existing list of possible available prizes from the vault? Or are we free to make up our own? If the latter, is there some price limit to keep in mind? E.g. no Ring of Infinite Wishes?

Are the player submissions supposed to be a cohesive team? With a common sponsor? Or are we independent contestants?

If we are a team, are we looking at a traditional party mix? I.e. beatstick, skillmonkey, healbot, arcane?

How will item creation feats be handled?

I am currently unfamiliar with Kingdom Building, but would be willing to learn it.

I present 'Yago' and Jafar.

@JeminiZero, I would rather not create new rules. I am not familiar with all of the possible interactions and so balance becomes a real issue when you have such a large rule set and you start introducing concepts without considering those different interactions.

That's fine, I don't need any additional abilities, just the Familiar in exchange for L1 bloodline power. Would that be acceptable?

1- To get the Fey Familiar you need the Fey Bloodline.

Let me rephrase a bit. Would you allow Imperious bloodline to take the Bloodline Familiar archetype? As per the suggestion "GMs may use the following bloodline familiar abilities as written, or employ them as guidelines for devising bloodline familiar abilities for bloodlines not listed below."

I have an old Kingmaker character I should be able to repurpose as: Seeker Bloodline Familiar Imperious Sorcerer 1 / Occultist Arcanist 3+

Seeker provides Trapfinding. And should be compatible with Bloodline Familiar as they replace different things.

Q1: Since Imperious has Perform as its Bloodline skill, would you allow its Bloodline Familiar to have the Fey Amusing Familiar Power:

Fey—Amusing Familiar (Su): The familiar can fascinate other creatures as the fascinate bardic performance, treating your caster level as its bard level and using your Charisma modifier for the purpose of calculating the Will save DC. The familiar cannot perform any other actions while using this ability.

Arcanist, so sort-of-prepared arcane caster. With Bloodline Development exploit, can progress the Familiar.

Q2: Will you allow Bloodline Development to progress Seeker Trapfinding as well?

Occultist to pull out Summoned Monsters to flank with the Knight.

Would that be alright?

Crafting was mentioned. How would that be handled for new applications? Do we just start with unspent gold and turn that into items in-game?

The only confirmed entry so far, Jassminder Shah, does not have Darkvision, and is relying on an Ioun Torch.

Hence, unless someone can provide other party members Darkvision via the spell or something similiar, I suspect the party will likely be using Light sources.

@JeminiZero: I’m limiting the extra money granted by crafting feats to items that could actually be crafted with that feat. You could buy wondrous items but you could not upgrade your shield.

Ah right, I should clarify that if I did take Craft Wondrous Item, I would "refund" 1500 gp worth of Wondrous Items, then spend the gold from the feat to "rebuy" the same items. That would leave me with 1500 gp which could then be spent on anything (like a shield).

Selective Channeling would be the better option IMO, but you could also leave that feat spot blank for now and decide once the party has been selected.

I'll leave it blank for now then. Thanks.

I present Xanther Coleson, Life Oracle. Most of the details should be there, but do let me know if the anything can be improved.

I'm sort of undecided on his L3 feat. Currently leaning towards either Selective Channel, or Craft Wondrous Item for more gold to upgrade his shield to +1. Open to recommendations (and any other general suggestions you might have).

I'm thinking he met Jassminder in some prior job. And since he could function without a holy symbol, Jassminder realized his value for infiltration, and asked him along for her Nidal mission.

I'm afraid I haven't got much further with finalising Jassminder's character; in particular I haven't really got into why/how she ended up in Nidal in the first place.

She serves Kelinahat right? According to the wiki: "Her followers use guile, subterfuge, and shadow magic to break into evil bastions and return with valuable information."

So maybe she was assigned to Nidal as part of a long term spying operation? Keep tabs of going ons? Provide a safe house for passing agents? Relay messages? That sort of thing?

Maybe I'll go with a Life Oracle as the healer. Oracles technically don't need holy symbols to cast, so nobody would know what deity grants them spells. (Sometimes, even the Oracle doesn't know what deity grants them spells.)

@caster4life: 1: Animate Dead is a 3rd level spell (minimum) so I don't think there's any way for you to access it at 4th level. If I'm wrong let me know and I'll decide how I would handle it.

Technically, there is the Lesser Animate Dead spell which only works on small/medium creatures.

Our site aims to take characters from level 1 to 20, leveling twice a year.

Also, where exactly is your site?

What is Wandering Wastrel playing?

Any pregame crafting? Or should we use the suggestion that each item crafting feat increases WBL by 25%?

And then you need to take the time to do all of that.

For Out of Combat usage, the time taken to recharge is actually not that much. Let's say you cast Greater Flaming Sphere at CL12 or 12 rounds. And assuming you are taking damage over 2 rounds and healing on 1 round, that's an average of 1 mythic power regained every 3 rounds, so you can harvest 4 Mythic Power with a Single Casting. Lets say you also spend 1 Mythic Power to cast Greater Flaming Sphere itself, so you net a total of 3 Mythic Power profit per casting.

With a 15 Mythic Power cap at Tier 6, you can become fully recharged within 5 castings, each lasting 12 rounds. That takes a total of about 6 minutes.

It's also worth considering that your uses of mythic power continue to increase and at a certain point you aren't likely to run out in an average adventuring day. At tier 6 when this is available, you already have 15 per day.

That's a reasonable point, but somewhat campaign dependent.

If you are running 15 minute adventuring days, then sure, you're unlikely to run out of Mythic Power.

If you are racing the doomsday clock, then being able to recharge mythic power and distribute it to your party becomes hugely valuable.

Mythic rules aren't exactly known for being fair and balanced. Of course, no game system is going to survive someone deliberately trying to break it.

By the time you reach Tier 10 there are so many ways to break the game it is not funny.

Yes, Mythic rules are broken, but that is besides the point. The question is not whether there are other ways to break the game. The question is does this break the game, the way I think it does?

As the title suggests, this thread is about the Mythic Archmage's Eldritch Reciprocation, a path ability you can pick up from T6 onwards. Firstly, this is the ability:

You can choose to take extra damage from an arcane spell to replenish mythic power. When you are hit by or fail a saving throw against an arcane spell that deals hit point damage, as an immediate action you can choose to take damage as if that spell were affected by the Maximize Spell feat. If the spell’s damage can’t be increased by the Maximize Spell feat or is already under the effect of the Maximize Spell feat, you instead take double damage from it. The spell’s damage ignores your spell resistance, energy resistance, energy immunities, and other protections against damage.

If you take at least 25 points of damage from the spell, you regain one use of mythic power.

Most of the guides I've read, rate this ability poorly:

From CTP's Guide to Mythic Adventures

Eldritch Reciprocation (passive): If this didn’t require an immediate action and replenished more than 1 use of Mythic Power at a time, it would still be terrible. You don’t want to be hurt; no amount of MP is worth that, especially when you can just be a badass and go fishing for Boons.

From Mythic Archmage Path (Alternate Link)

Eldritch Reciprocation: Ugg, yuck, regain mythic power in exchange for taking maximized damage from spells, and you have to take at least 25 damage for it to work? Ok, forget this one folks, it’s not worth it, generally I’d rather avoid damage then take damage even for extra mythic power.

Am I missing something? This ability seems pretty powerful to me. Nothing about the ability states it must be used in Combat. And if used outside combat, gaining Mythic Power from damage can be beneficial, if you also use Mythic Power to heal yourself for more than the damage taken.

If my reading is correct (and it may not be), Eldritch Reciprocation can be turned into a strong ability, using a series of steps detailed below. And there is even a final trick which pushes its power to absurd levels.

Incendiary Cloud + Eldritch Reciprocation (ICER)
Lets say you are a Wizard or Sorcerer Mythic Archmage with Wild Arcana.

Using either your own spell slots or Wild Arcana, cast Greater Aggressive Thundercloud, Greater Flaming Sphere or Incendiary Cloud. (The rest of this post assumes you use Incendiary Cloud for the final trick, but Thundercloud and Flaming Sphere both work as well outside the final trick).

Hit yourself with your own Arcane spell, and intentionally fail your save. This qualifies you to use Eldritch Reciprocation. You take 6d6 maximized = 36 damage, and regain 1 Mythic Power. But, you can't do this indefinitely, you need to heal up in between.

Staff of Heal+ Enhance Magic Items (SHEMI)
If you have Enhance Magic Items, some ranks in UMD, and a Staff with the Heal spell, you can UMD the staff and spend Mythic Power instead of Staff Charges. Spending 1 Mythic Power, you can heal yourself far more than the 36 damage, netting a profit (remember that Enhance Magic Items lets you add half tier to Staff CL). So long as you can hit the UMD DC20 even on a natural 1, you can keep using the staff without risk of failure.

So at Tier 6, when you can first pick up Eldritch Reciprocation, you can take 108 HP damage for 3 Mythic Power, and then spend 1 Mythic Power to UMD a Staff of Heal to restore 110 HP (8 minimum stave CL + 3 Enhance Magic Items). In practice, the actual numbers are a bit less favorable than this, because a Sorc/Wiz total HP at CL12/MT6 won't be that high. But even a regain-2-spend-1 Mythic Power ratio works well enough for most purposes.

ICER-SHEMI effectively gives you limitless Mythic Power outside of combat. You can start fights with nearly full Mythic Power (minus the 1 used to Heal yourself back to full HP). And the investment to achieve this isn't that costly. To recap, you need:
*Wild Arcana (Which is the best Archmage Arcana anyway)
*Eldritch Reciprocation
*Enhance Magic Item and enough ranks in UMD (Both of which are useful anyway, outside this combo)
*A Staff of Heal (Technically available as a Staff of Life, but that is probably way too expensive. And you are unlikely to be able to buy a custom Staff with just Heal. You probably have to take Crafting Mastery, and make this yourself with the help of any Divine Caster who can cast Heal. But as with EMI+UMD, Crafting Mastery is a solid ability to have on its own anyway).

Comparison against Channel Power and True Archmage
Arguably, ICER-SHEMI is strong, but not absurdly strong. Mythic Tiers already include Recuperation, letting you recover full spell slots between fights. Provided your spells known/spell prepared choices are good, starting combat with full Mythic Power and full Spell Slots is great, but comparatively, not vastly superior to starting combat with less Mythic Power and full Spell Slots.

Hence, a case could be made that the Nova-bility of Channel Power makes it a better pick at Tier 6 than Eldritch Reciprocation. Of course, you could (eventually) squeeze both Path Abilities into your build.

Additionally, at Tier 10, you automatically gain True Archmage. This lets you recharge Mythic Power anyway and makes Eldritch Reciprocation sort-of redundant. (Specifically, a True Archmage can Summon a bunch of Lillends and ask them to cast their Bard spells at the Archmage to recharge Mythic Power).

Things get a little more complicated if you feed your ample Mythic Power to your party members via Restore Mythic Power. How strong (or weak) this is, will depend on your party member's exact builds, and is beyond the scope of this post. But I'm sure you can think of a few ideas.

The Final Trick: Augmented Mythic Time Stop
At Tier 10, another ability becomes available, which changes the ICER-SHEMI combo from strong to absurd.

Time Stop has the wording: "Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you." Which means you can use ICER-SHEMI to damage yourself and recharge Mythic Power inside Time Stop as well. True Archmage cannot do this, or at least not as easily. Monsters summoned within Time Stop, can only act only during "normal time" and hence remain frozen relative to you.

So you can stop time for hrs/CL, use the combo above for rechargeable Mythic Power, and then spend that Mythic Power to flood the battlefield with Delayed Fireball Blasts (or whatever else you fancy). You should grab Elemental Spell or Mythic Energy Conversion in case you are up against Fire Immune enemies, and probably Channel Power to punch through SR.

Am I reading this correctly? I realize no sane GM would allow the final trick, but does it work in theory?

There are a handful of no SR damage spells available to a Magus. The only elemental one I can think of is Acid Arrow. The rest deal physical damage subject to DR. They are: Stone Discus and Pellet Blast

You can still use Glitterdust to try and blind Golems, and Grease to trip them up.

If you were a different brand of Arcane Caster, I would also recommend Disable Construct or Eroding Ray, but these are not available to a Magus.

I don’t believe so, no, as you need to have the spell on your class list to scribe it into a Spellbook.

I don’t even know if divine-only spells can be put into a spellbook at all, but I’ll have to look into that.

Yeah, the feat seems to be practically unusable by Oracles, without either some houserules or homebrew. I guess I'll pick up extra spells known the Half-elf way instead.

Applying with Jovian Zevros. Everything should be on the profile, let me know if anything is missing.

Related Question: if an Oracle was willing to hire a wizard to write a spellbook, and assuming the Oracle provided his full cooperation, would the Wizard be able to copy Cleric/Oracle spells which are not on the Wizard list (e.g. Raise Dead) into said spellbook?

If I took Versatile Spontaneity later on, would the feat qualify me to scribe my own spellbook?

The feat is quite useless for an Oracle without their own spellbook. And if I don't take it, I won't need to start with 13 Wis.

Sorry to be a bother, but one other question, is Fey Thoughts ok for half-elves? I intend to take Perception and Stealth.

Fey Thoughts (1 RP): Select two of the following skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Knowledge (nature), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, or Use Magic Device. The selected skills are always class skills for the character. This trait replaces multitalented.

That is a heck of a feat!

If you think that's good, you should see the Mnemonic Vestments! (Uses same spell level slot instead of 1 level higher, does not consume scrolls.)

I am thinking of submitting a Deep One Cursed Divine Herbalist Oracle as a primary healer.

If I took Versatile Spontaneity later on, would the feat qualify me to scribe my own spellbook? I need to plan whether to have 13 in Wis.