

I came up with a similar concept a couple of months ago:
Uchiha Bloodline
Class Skill: Perception
Bonus Spells: Burning Hands (3rd), Fiery Shuriken (5th), Fireball (7th), Phantasmal Killer (9th), Phantasmal Web (11th), Contingency (13th), Maddening Oubliette (15th), Moment of Prescience (17th), Meteor Swarm (19th)
Bonus Feats: Arcane Strike, Dodge, Elemental Focus: Fire, Greater Elemental Focus: Fire, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Skill Focus: Perception
Bloodline Arcana: You gain proficiency with the wakizachi, shuriken and kunai. You gain +1 to hit with these weapons for every 5 levels you possess, to a maximum of +4 at level 20.
Bloodline Powers:
Mastery over Fire (Su): At 1st level, you can change the shape of a fire spell as you cast. You can cause one square that would be affected by the spell to be unaffected. Alternatively you can choose one additional square to affect. This square must be adjacent to a square affected by the spell. Using this ability is a swift action that you can perform a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Sharingan (Su): At 3rd level, you can cause a creature to freeze in place with merely a glance. Choose one creature within 30 feet that can see you clearly. The target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier) or be paralyzed as you assault their mind with the raw power of your Sharingan. Treat this effect as hold person. You can use this ability once per day at 3rd level and one additional time per day for every four sorcerer levels you possess beyond 3rd, up to five times per day at 19th level.
Susanoo (Su): At 9th level, you can manifest Susanoo as a standard action. Susanoo appears as a shell of force around you, protecting you from harm. While active your size increases by one step and you gain DR/adamantine equal to 1/3 your sorcerer level. Susanoo has a number of hit points equal to three times your sorcerer level - while this effect is active treat these points as temporary hit points. Susanoo's hit points are refreshed when you prepare spells. If Susanoo's hit points reach zero then this effect immediately ends and you cannot use this ability until you prepare spells again. Susanoo moves with you and does not block line of effect or line of sight. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your sorcerer level.
One Step Ahead (Ex): At level 15, you can use the mythic ability Mirror Dodge once per day without expending any mythic points. At level 19 you gain another use of this ability. Alternatively you can ask your GM to design a bloodline power specific to your Sharingan.
Rinnegan (Ex): At level 20, you reach the pinnacle of Uchiha power. You gain permanent true seeing and blindsight 60 feet. Once per day you can cast time stop as a spell-like ability.

spectrevk wrote: Felyndiira wrote: One thing to do if you're getting bored: fill your slots with a bunch of Silent Image spells, and figure out ways to solve problems with just that or Ghost Sound.
Otherwise, what is it that you are looking for in a character? It's true that a first level wizard doesn't have much versatility yet, but it's still probably the most versatile class that you can find even at level 1. If just rolling attack and damage dice is getting boring to you, try branching out into more fun spells like Charm Person or Illusions.
It's a tough situation because much of what you encounter in Godsmouth Heresy is largely immune to things like Charm Person.
Jason Robbs wrote: 18 strength half-orc transmuter wizard with a falchion. Either go for eldritch knight to stay competitive in melee or stay pure wizard and transition into buffing/control at higher levels. Its fun because you get to use those cool wizard polymorph spells. Also the confused looks from everyone else at the table makes it worthwhile. I like this idea! I was just over here sketching out something similar (dual-dagger, bonded weapon[dagger], etc) but I ran up against the question of whether you can still deliver magical touch attacks if you've got knives in both hands (or in your case, both hands are on a falchion). With two weapon fighting you will find it difficult to cast spells since both of your hands are full. With a falchion you can still cast and deliver touch spells. The strength wizard can basically go in two directions:
Wizard 5/Barbarian OR Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight X
This is a fun but not very effective option. You open combat with either Haste or some polymorph spell and then wade into melee. With this option you need to focus on precasting as many long term buffs as possible to stay okay at hitting. You are going to need things like Heroism and False Life up as much as possible. A fighter level is better than a Barbarian level but I think that fighting as a raging Fire Elemental is funnier.
Wizard X
This is a more standard build. You will stay effective in melee until level 6~9ish, depending on your party. At the mid levels you will transition to more standard spells like Haste and summoning spells. For this build I recommend getting Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus for transmutation and using Slow and Telekinesis to differentiate yourself from other wizards.
18 strength half-orc transmuter wizard with a falchion. Either go for eldritch knight to stay competitive in melee or stay pure wizard and transition into buffing/control at higher levels. Its fun because you get to use those cool wizard polymorph spells. Also the confused looks from everyone else at the table makes it worthwhile.
Imbicatus wrote: A style feat is only the first feat in the chain. Following feats do not have the [style] descriptor, but only have the [combat] descriptor.
The ones in Inner Sea Combat have the style descriptor (see Unfolding Wind Rush above)
What about the Unarmed Fighter?
At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat.
I guess my question is what is a style feat? Is it only the first feat in a style chain or is it any feat marked with style type?
One part of the new errata has me confused:
At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels
thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus
style feat or the Elemental Fist feat (Advanced Player’s
Guide 158). He does not need to meet the prerequisites of
that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat.
Does that mean that the MoMS can still take any "Style" marked feats without prereqs? In Ultimate Combat only the first feat in the chain is marked as a style feat but elsewhere (i.e. Unfolding Wind Rush in Inner Sea Combat) is marked as a style feat.

After buying the new occult book I figured that my next PFS character should be a kineticist - specifically the Elemental Ascetic archetype. I wanted to get more eyes on it because I'm sure I made some mistakes.
Human (Dual Talent) Kineticist (Elemental Ascetic) 12
Bruising Intellect, Quain Martial Artist
K) <Fire>, [Kinetic Fist], [Fan of Flames], Weapon Finesse
K) [Kinetic Cover]
K) [Burning Infusion], Boar Style
K) [Searing Flame]
K) Improved Initiative
K) [Flame Jet]
K) <Earth>, Boar Ferocity
K) [Firesight]
K) EWT: Entangling Infusion
K) [Greater Flame Jet], EWT: Eruption (from human FCB)
K) [Flash Infusion], Boar Shred
K) [Ride the Blast]
Str: 10
Dex: 18 -> 24
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 17 -> 22
Cha: 7
Init: +11
HP: 93
AC: 33 (with mage armor)
Saves: 13/18/13
Atk: Powerful Flame Fist (2) + Burning Infusion (1) (DC 22 Ref)
+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9 (1d8+9/5+2d8 fire+1d6 acid+1d6 burn) + 2d6 bleed + 1d6 ongoing bleed
Flame Fist (0) + Flash Infusion (3) (DC 22 Will)
+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9 (1d8+9/5+2d6 fire+1d6 acid) + 2d6 bleed + 1d6 ongoing bleed
Earth Fist (0) + Entangling Infusion (2) (DC 22 Ref)
+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9 (1d8+9/5+2d6 bludgeoning+1d6 acid) + 2d6 bleed + 1d6 ongoing bleed
Empowered Powerful Magma Fist (6) after spending a full round charging (-3)
+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9 (1d8+9/5+3d10 fire+3d10 bludgeoning+1d6 acid) + 2d6 bleed + 1d6 ongoing bleed
Magma Eruption (4) (DC 23 Ref) + Burning Infusion (1) (DC 22 Ref) after spending a move action charging (-2)
12d6+14+1d6 burn
Maximized Empowered Magma Eruption (7) (DC 23 Ref) + Burning Infusion (1) (DC 22 Ref) after spending a full round + move charging (-5)
6d6+93+1d6 burn
Equipment
(16000) +4 dex belt
(16000) +4 wis headband
(13000) monk's robe
(9000) +3 cloak of resistance
(16000) +1 agile amulet of mighty fists
(12000) boots of speed
(2000) +1 ring of protection
(8000) deliquescence gloves
(5000) jingasa
(5000) dusty rose prism ioun stone
Total: 103k
Random notes:
Elemental Ascetic gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, monk FoB, Kinetic Fist at level 1 with 0 burn cost, Wis to AC + monk scaling AC, Wis instead of Con for DCs and durations and the ability to spend burn to increase the dice size on Kinetic Fist. In exchange you lose elemental defence, elemental overflow, 5th/9th/13th level infusions and you can never use a blast that requires a ranged attack.
The loss of the 5th & 9th level infusions + Extra Wild Talent only allowing talents at 2 levels below your max hurts alot in the 4-8 range. The main reason why I went with fire at 1st level is so that I would have an AoE attack before level 8.
With Supercharge if you spend a full round + move charging do you get -4 or -5 on the next blast?
The only feat I really needed for this build was Weapon Finesse. I went with Boar Style because it seemed like fun and stacking the shakened condition on top of the burning infusion's -2 to saves is pretty nasty. If anyone can find a better use for my feats let me know.
Monk's Robes are pretty cool for this build because they bump up the unarmed damage from 1d3 to 1d8.
I don't really know how the DCs work for abilities. What spell level are they?
Looking at that clip the spear dodge could be done with the mythic ability mirror dodge and the rest by the dimensional line of feats. One way to build this would be Slayer 12/Horizon Walker 3/Trickster MR 3 taking mirror dodge, dimensional agility, dimensional assault and dimensional savant. With Horizon Walker you can grab dimension door 3+wis per day at level 9 and start with the dimensional feats.

I built this character for PFS - maybe you can get some ideas from it:
Human Slayer 6/Monk (Master of Many Styles, Sacred Mountain) 2/ Fighter (Weapon Master) 4
Traits: Blade of Mercy, Bruising Intellect
FCB: Slayer to get an extra trick at level 6
Slayer 1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Slayer 2: [Ranger Style: Two Weapon Fighting]
Slayer 3: Enforcer
Slayer 4: [Combat Trick: Quick Draw], +1 Dex
Slayer 5: Perfect Style
Slayer 6: [Ranger Style: Improved Two Weapon Fighting], [Weapon Focus:Dagger]
Monk 1: Dazzling Display, [Unfolding Wind Rush]
Monk 2: [Unfolding Wind Strike], [Toughness], +1 Str
Fighter 1: Rapid Shot, [Shatter Defenses]
Fighter 2: [Improved Critical: Dagger]
Fighter 3: Double Slice
Fighter 4: [Weapon Specialization: Dagger], +1 Wis
Str: 15 -> 18
Dex: 17 -> 22
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 13 -> 14
Cha: 7
HP: 110
AC: 26
Saves: 16/16/10
Attack (melee): +3 adamantine dagger +24/+24/+19/+14 (1d4+15/17-20), +1 cruel mithral dagger +22/+17 (1d4+13/17-20) + 2d6 sneak attack
Attack (ranged): +3 adamantine dagger +25/+25/+25/+25/+20/+20/+15 (1d4+16/17-20) + 2d6 sneak attack
(attacks assume studied target)
Equipment:
(15000) Headband of Ninjitsu
(15000) Gloves of Duelling
(5000) Blinkback Belt
(2000) Ring of Protection +1
(4000) Cloak of Resistance +2
(2000) Amulet of Natural Armor +1
(12000) Boots of Speed
(21000) +3 Adamantine Dagger
(8500) +1 Cruel Mithral Dagger
(800) Cracked Magenta Ioun Stone (+2 to Intimidate)
(4000) Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 to hit)
(8000) Pale Blue Ioun Stone (+2 dex)
(8000) Deep Red Ioun Stone (+2 str)
(4000) +2 Mithral Chain Shirt
Total: 109k
I have been toying with making an archer eldritch knight:
Human Fighter 1/Transmuter Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 6
F) PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
W) Spell Focus
W) Arcane Strike
W)
W) Deadly Aim
W) Extend Spell
EK) Weapon Focus, Improved Initiative
EK)
EK) Manyshot
EK)
EK) Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical
EK)
I wonder how much of an issue DR will be now that clustered shots is not allowed.
How would this spell interact with Manyshot?
Imbicatus wrote: Regardless, you'd be better off with True Strike. Most of the same effects of making sure one attack hits, It also ignores concealment, it can be used on other things than ranged attacks, and is only a first level spell. It was the critical + touch AC that made me pause. A critical hit with a bow is essentially two extra attacks a round though I guess that just brings me back up to the zen archer level. It's too bad that this doesn't combo with the Eldritch Knight capstone due to the swift action bottleneck (though it would be funny to also use Borrowed Time).
I was considering making an eldritch archer build for a home campaign (Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/Wizard 4 since early entry is not allowed) when I came across the Named Bullet spell. With Quicken Spell and Spell Perfection you could full attack with one of those attacks ignoring concealment, hitting touch within 30 feet, adding CL to damage and is automatically a critical threat - assuming you can identify the targets type and overcome spell resistance. Is this too powerful at 15th level?

I have a very similar character in PFS right now:
Human Slayer 6/Monk (Master of Many Styles, Sacred Mountain) 2/ Fighter (Weapon Master) 4
Traits: Blade of Mercy, Brusing Intellect
FCB: Slayer to get an extra trick at level 6
Slayer 1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Slayer 2: [Ranger Style: Two Weapon Fighting]
Slayer 3: Enforcer
Slayer 4: [Combat Trick: Quick Draw], +1 Dex
Slayer 5: Perfect Style
Slayer 6: [Ranger Style: Improved Two Weapon Fighting], [Weapon Focus:Dagger]
Monk 1: Dazzling Display, [Unfolding Wind Rush]
Monk 2: [Unfolding Wind Strike], [Toughness], +1 Str
Fighter 1: Rapid Shot, [Shatter Defenses]
Fighter 2: [Improved Critical: Dagger]
Fighter 3: Double Slice
Fighter 4: [Weapon Specialization: Dagger], +1 Wis
Str: 15 -> 18
Dex: 17 -> 22
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 13 -> 14
Cha: 7
HP: 110
AC: 26
Saves: 16/16/10
Attack (melee): +3 adamantine dagger +24/+24/+19/+14 (1d4+15/17-20), +1 cruel mithral dagger +22/+17 (1d4+13/17-20) + 2d6 sneak attack
Attack (ranged): +3 adamantine dagger +25/+25/+25/+25/+20/+20/+15 (1d4+16/17-20) + 2d6 sneak attack
(attacks assume studied target)
Equipment:
(15000) Headband of Ninjitsu
(15000) Gloves of Duelling
(5000) Blinkback Belt
(2000) Ring of Protection +1
(4000) Cloak of Resistance +2
(2000) Amulet of Natural Armor +1
(12000) Boots of Speed
(21000) +3 Adamantine Dagger
(8500) +1 Cruel Mithral Dagger
(800) Cracked Magenta Ioun Stone (+2 to Intimidate)
(4000) Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 to hit)
(8000) Pale Blue Ioun Stone (+2 dex)
(8000) Deep Red Ioun Stone (+2 str)
(4000) +2 Mithral Chain Shirt
Total: 109k
I have always wanted to play a mobile dagger throwing Sczarni character and with Unfolding Wind Rush it is now somewhat more viable than before. The prereqs for Unfolding Wind Rush are steep so we bypass them with a MoMS dip. In combat expect to move around with Unfolding Wind Rush looking for a flank. When such an opportunity arises, enter melee for a round to activate shatter defences (via enforcer + blade of mercy). From there you can use Unfolding Wind Rush to leave melee (the enemy is flatfooted to you so it probably can't AOO you) and you can keep sneak attacking that enemy with shatter defenses.
You want Unfolding Wind Rush. You could grab both Perfect Style and Unfolding Wind rush with a 2 level dip into Master of Many Styles
plaidwandering wrote: using the numbers from Mark and Jason's posts:
if you average the list of CR 11 critters above it works out to 66% chance to hit(I counted the dragons with their mage amror on, since it is hour/level)
66% chance at 7d6+ 4 + con? (33.5 avg at 20 con, 45 empowered), plus a considerable list of DRs you cannot get around
average dpr for a single empowered ranged blast 28, melee with an iterative at -25% odds to hit, hitting the DR twice, can't empower it, average DPR 31
that's frankly awful
and you had to take 48 unhealable damage to get it to that point
What is your average AC at CR 11? According to this and this the average AC at CR 11 is 26. I agree with your average DPR number - the damage needs to be increased significantly.
Tels wrote: Probably comes from people not wanting to require Fuel the Burn in order to hit. If you didn't max FtB, your chance to hit drops substantially, which is a big deal because people don't want to have to require dropping their HP by (level*ftb cap) in order to hit.
Is your intention to make the Kineticist as accurate as the Rogue? Because that's where he currently stands as FtB roughly equals that of the Rogue's weapon enhancement bonus.
Does the rogue have an issue hitting? If a rogue doesn't have Power Attack or TWF it seems like they can hit just fine (and do no damage but thats a seperate issue). Maybe I need to go read that rogue build thread again...
Mark Seifter wrote: menacing aomf Thats pretty clever... Next time I have a melee character that is in need of an amulet I know what to buy
A quick test at level 17:
12 BAB + 5 FtB + 9 dex (18 start + 4 levels + 6 item) = +26 to hit before extras (WF, PBS etc.)
CR 16 to CR 19 averages AC 31 to AC 35 which means a hit chance of 80% to 60% which is in line with the level 12 test. With some simple items/feats you can achieve 90%+ accuracy.

Mark Seifter wrote: Jason Robbs wrote: Artanthos wrote: Jason Robbs wrote: Mark Seifter wrote: So guys, I've been playtesting in the 11-14 range with a geokineticist who explicitly did not take kinetic form, nor rare metal infusion, nor magnetic, nor any odd accuracy boosters from other books like bracers of falcon's aim, reckless shot, etc. I am maxing feel the burn. I'm pretty much having no trouble hitting. When I switch-hit into melee, even my iteratives are usually hitting except against solo boss types. Can someone who was missing with a geo (or other kineticist who had no touch choices) walk me through the AC of the enemies they were fighting again? Does your geokinetist (at level 12) have something like 9 (bab) + 4 (FtB) + 6 (dex) = +19 to hit? Vs a random selection of CR 11-13 enemies: I will say that at 11th level, my strength based geokineticist has +21/+13 to-hit with his Kinetic Blade. Simple level progression would put this to +24/+16 at 13th level.
10 BAB + 9 STR +4 FTB +1 WF = +24 Yeah it looks like I was too conservative (used base 18 dex, +3 levels, +2 from belt for 23 => +6). Regardless my point stands - the kineticist doesn't have problems hitting at level 12 even with a more conservative build and assuming that you max feel the burn. So I'm wondering, then, where the strong sentiment that it does is coming from? I think everyone more-or-less agreed its accuracy was fine at lower levels, before it starts falling more behind in BAB. And my playtests back my own math. Plus you and I were pretty conservative, Jason. So what all were the people fighting when they kept missing all the time? Or did they roll super-terribly all the time? Its the kineticist + FtB = rogue + magic weapon analogy (with the implication that the rogue has a hard time hitting so the kineticist must have that problem too). If you replaced the kineticist with a rogue in my above example the rogue would have the same percentages which goes to prove that the hit chance isn't the problem.

Artanthos wrote: Jason Robbs wrote: Mark Seifter wrote: So guys, I've been playtesting in the 11-14 range with a geokineticist who explicitly did not take kinetic form, nor rare metal infusion, nor magnetic, nor any odd accuracy boosters from other books like bracers of falcon's aim, reckless shot, etc. I am maxing feel the burn. I'm pretty much having no trouble hitting. When I switch-hit into melee, even my iteratives are usually hitting except against solo boss types. Can someone who was missing with a geo (or other kineticist who had no touch choices) walk me through the AC of the enemies they were fighting again? Does your geokinetist (at level 12) have something like 9 (bab) + 4 (FtB) + 6 (dex) = +19 to hit? Vs a random selection of CR 11-13 enemies: I will say that at 11th level, my strength based geokineticist has +21/+13 to-hit with his Kinetic Blade. Simple level progression would put this to +24/+16 at 13th level.
10 BAB + 9 STR +4 FTB +1 WF = +24 Yeah it looks like I was too conservative (used base 18 dex, +3 levels, +2 from belt for 23 => +6). Regardless my point stands - the kineticist doesn't have problems hitting at level 12 even with a more conservative build and assuming that you max feel the burn.

Mark Seifter wrote: So guys, I've been playtesting in the 11-14 range with a geokineticist who explicitly did not take kinetic form, nor rare metal infusion, nor magnetic, nor any odd accuracy boosters from other books like bracers of falcon's aim, reckless shot, etc. I am maxing feel the burn. I'm pretty much having no trouble hitting. When I switch-hit into melee, even my iteratives are usually hitting except against solo boss types. Can someone who was missing with a geo (or other kineticist who had no touch choices) walk me through the AC of the enemies they were fighting again? Does your geokinetist (at level 12) have something like 9 (bab) + 4 (FtB) + 6 (dex) = +19 to hit? Vs a random selection of CR 11-13 enemies:
CR 11 Adult Black Dragon: AC 28 (32 after mage armor) => 60% (40%) hit chance, has DR 5/magic (which you bypass)
CR 11 Ash Giant: AC 25 => 75% hit chance, no DR
CR 11 Mute Hag: AC 24 => 80% hit chance, has DR 10/cold iron and magic
CR 11 Moon-Beast: AC 25 => 75% hit chance, has DR 10/piercing or slashing (which you bypass)
CR 11 Elder Water Elemental: AC 24 => 80% hit chance, has DR 10/-
CR 12 Adult Green Dragon: AC 27 (31 after shield) => 65% (45%) hit chance, has DR 5/magic (which you bypass)
CR 12 Clockwork Golem: AC 26 => 70% hit chance, has DR 10/adamantine
CR 12 Lich: AC 23 (27 after shield) => 85% (65%), has DR 15/bludgeoning and magic (which you bypass)
CR 12 Coloxus Demon: AC 26 => 70% hit chance, has DR 10/good
CR 13 Alraune: AC 27 => 65% hit chance, no DR
CR 13 Ghaele Azata: AC 28 => 60% hit chance, DR 10/cold iron and evil
CR 13 Thanadaemon: AC 27 => 65% hit chance, DR 10/good
CR 13 Iron Golem: AC 28 => 60% hit chance, DR 15/adamantine
CR 13 Adult Void Dragon: AC 29 (33 with mage armor) => 55% (35%), has DR 5/magic (which you bypass)
Looks like you should expect somewhere between 80% to 60% hit chance (with iteratives being 25% lower). Roughly half of the creatures in this sample have DR that you can't bypass (at lvl 12 you should do 6d6+11 so ~32 damage, which means DR 5 lowers your output to around 82% and DR 10 lowers it to around 68%).
After doing this exercise I think that the kineticists to hit at level 12 is in line with what I would expect. Just by adding Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus you can increase the hit percentage to 90 - 70%, which seems reasonable to me. The real problem that I see is the lack of damage. VS the elder water elemental it would take ~7 rounds to kill it. Even with empower it would take ~4 rounds. And that is a CR 11 monster! Either the kineticist needs more damage or more utility at higher levels (hopefully both)
EDIT: Forgot that FtB adds damage as well. The average damage increases to 36.
The kineticist seems to work really well with the conductive weapon property. For example you could use a blast that targets regular AC with a conductive pistol to make it target touch instead. With a musket and far-reaching sight you could actually build a viable sniper! Quick build:
Human Musket Master 3/Kineticist 9 taking Vital Strike, Deadly Aim and Bullseye Shot and using a +1 conductive double barrelled musket has approximately +16 vs touch for 2x(2d12+7) + 5d6+10 for 70ish damage per round without burn. If you use a blast that does physical damage then DR should only apply once to the gun + blast damage and you ignore SR/energy resistances. Using a composite blast that does all physical (i.e. metal blast, sandstorm blast) the DPR goes up to around 90.
Mergy wrote: I'll point out again that all of these builds show strength and charisma at 7. There are no rewards for a kineticist having a strength or charisma score that hasn't been dumped into the ground, especially because UMD is such an easy skill to run off Intelligence instead.
If you give kinetic blade automatically and allow strength to impact its damage, we may see some bruiser kineticists come out to play.
I was trying to make a bull rush focused build but you are right - strength has no real use on a kineticist. I am having a very difficult time making anything other than a water kineticist that uses cold blast for offense and depends on dex + shroud of water for defense. I like your strength to blade damage and the intelligence to hit on blasts suggestions - it would hopefully promote varied builds.
Mark Seifter wrote: I think the DC for slick should be 21, not 27. It's a 1st-level power, so 11 + Con modifier unless you have something else I'm missing. Right - only defense and blast wild arcana have an effective spell level for 1/2 kinesist level

The defensive possibilites with this class are insane!
Bruno the Human Water Kineticist 12
Traits: Pragmatic Activator, ???
K) [Wild Talent: Slick], Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
K) [WT: Extended Range]
K) Toughness
K) [WT: Kinetic Cover]
K) [Infusion Specialization: Form], Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
K) [WT: Entangling Infusion]
K) [WT: Extra Element (Earth)], Extra Wild Talent: Expanded Defense
K) [WT: Impale], [IS: Substance]
K) Iron Will
K) [WT: Kinetic Form]
K) [IS: Form], Extra Wild Talent: Spark of Life
K) [WT: Ride the Blast]
HP: 219 (with 24 nonlethal)
AC: 34 (DR 6/adamantine)
Saves: 20/14/10
atk: cold blast +14 touch (6d6+6)
entangling impale cold blast +17 touch (6d6+9 plus entangle [DC 27]) (1 burn)
Str: 7
Dex: 16 (18)
Con: 19 (28) -> 32 with Elemental Body II
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 7
Equipment
(36000) Belt of Con +6
(8000) Deep Red Ioun Stone (+2 dex)
(10000) Chain Shirt +3
(9000) Cloak of Resistance +3
(2000) Ring of Protection +1
(2000) Amulet of Natural Armor +1
(5000) Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
(5000) Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (+1 insight AC)
(2000) Handy Haversack
(750) Wand of True Strike
Total: 79000
Bruno starts every day using Shroud of Water as a shield bonus (+4 AC) and uses Flesh of Stone to gain DR 6/adamantine. Bruno also uses Kinetic Form with 2 burn to take the form of a medium water elemental (+4 Con, +5 natural AC). In combat Bruno either uses Slick to trip or disarm (DC 22 Reflex) or uses entangling impale cold blast to hinder a group of enemies for 1 burn (or 0 burn if a move action is used to steady). If Bruno has time he casts True Strike with his wand (+21 UMD) and then uses Maximized Mud Blast (+37 for 99 damage) for 2 burn with the move action to steady.
Some notes:
- I am having a difficult time building a kineticist that does not start with water + slick. The flexibility at level 1 is so much better than any other element.
- Building on the previous point - there are not enough level 1 wild talents. I am sure this will be solved in the final release.
- This build can use a total of 10 burn without issue. If you wanted to go crazy you could boost the DR by 6 for 6 burn and the AC by 2 for 2 burn - you would still have 99 HP after nonlethal. I prefer to spend the 8 burn to use maximized mud blast 4 times a day.
- This class is too strong defensively. For most classes it is a serious challenge to get 30+ AC by level 12 - the kineticist can get that without really trying.
- Like all the other posters I think that this class has too low to hit with non touch attack blasts. The only way to make mud blast hit is to use true strike the round before. This also contributes to the feeling that you have to start with water.
- You could make a very scary DR focused build with Flesh of Stone and the Stalwart line of feats. Maybe a dip into MoMS for Crane Style?
Can you use multiple infusions on the same blast (i.e. an entangling kinetic blade or a range pushing blast)? I think you should be at least able to combine a substance infusion with a form infusion.
I think the accuracy problem is twofold: It makes combat pretty swingy and it can make players feel useless when their dice are against them. To solve the first issue I think that there should be a way to boost to hit when you need it (with burn of course). To solve the second problem you need a way for a player to feel like they are contributing. Maybe a non-touch attack could do something when it misses? For example we could use the alchemist splash rules and have a 6d6+6 blast do 12 damage? That way at least you feel like you haven't wasted a turn.

Insain Dragoon wrote: Jason Robbs wrote: Insain Dragoon wrote: @Jason
Note: This is not a knock on your build, it's awesome and take full advantage of your system mastery
How do you think the class holds up in a non-magic mart scenario? Say an adventure path with randomly rolled loot in shops and random/pre-written loot drops? I think it would do fantastic with suboptimal gear. Even completely naked you have (10 + 5 dex + 6 shield + 5 NA from elemental body) 26 AC and saves of 12/13/6 - grab some mage armor, fix the will save and you are good to go. The low attack bonus will hurt so you will have to stick to touch attacks (+14 to hit vs AC of 27ish) I think we've reached a pretty similar conclusion on something.
The touch based Blasts are really very appealing because of the relatively low Attack bonus.
Maybe we could get an ability that "leaches enhancement bonus" from an obtained weapon? Like we use the weapon as a conduit to enhance our Blasts? All that is really needed is some extra wild arcana that give bonuses to hit:
- Lightning gets +1 to hit every 2 levels vs metal armor/creatures.
- Aether blast vs a creature allows any non-aether blast over the next round to roll 2d20 pick highest.
- maybe add a metakinesis that increases attack?
Insain Dragoon wrote: @Jason
Note: This is not a knock on your build, it's awesome and take full advantage of your system mastery
How do you think the class holds up in a non-magic mart scenario? Say an adventure path with randomly rolled loot in shops and random/pre-written loot drops?
I think it would do fantastic with suboptimal gear. Even completely naked you have (10 + 5 dex + 6 shield + 5 NA from elemental body) 26 AC and saves of 12/13/6 - grab some mage armor, fix the will save and you are good to go. The low attack bonus will hurt so you will have to stick to touch attacks (+14 to hit vs AC of 27ish)
Mark Seifter wrote: Jason Robbs wrote: This is my favourite class from the playtest - truely unique. Nice work Mark!
I theorycrafted the following build. I built it quick so there might be some problems with it (using PFS rules)
Jason, awesome build! There's a lot of similarities in build to the (currently 5th level) Eram in my Skull and Shackles game. You did such a great job, I even don't feel a need to post Eram any more. If you get a chance to playtest Jack at all, I'd be thrilled to hear feedback in the other subforum (that goes for people other than Jason who want to give the character a spin).
@Filler feats--maybe go grab some extra wild talents with the feat in the 2dn post of this thread! I was sticking to PFS so no extra wild talents (at least not yet). I just realized that you can't use Spray with Cold Blast so I switched Spray to Kinetic Form. Does Kinetic Form last all day? The AC + CON boost seems crazy.

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This is my favourite class from the playtest - truely unique. Nice work Mark!
I theorycrafted the following build. I built it quick so there might be some problems with it (using PFS rules)
Jack the Human Water Kineticist
1) [Wild Arcana: Slick], Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2) [WT: Extra Range]
3) Improved Initiative
4) [WT: Kinetic Blade]
5) [Infusion Specialization: Form], Weapon Finesse
6) [WT: Kinetic Whip]
7) [WT: Expanded Element (Aether)], Combat Reflexes
8) [WT: Expanded Defense], [IS: Form]
9) Toughness
10)[WT: Spark of Life]
11)[IS: Form], Iron Will
12)[WT: Kinetic Form]
HP: 171 + 12 (with 48 nonlethal)
AC: 38
Saves: 16/18/9 (20/23/13 with greater heroism)
atk: ice blast +18 (+22) touch (6d6+3)
telekinetic blast +18 (+22) (6d6+12)
kinetic whip +17/+12 (+21/+16) touch (6d6+2)
kinetic whip +17/+12 (+21/+16) (6d6+11)
Str: 7
Dex: 19 (25)
Con: 17 (20) -> 24 with Elemental Body II
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
Equipment:
(16000) Belt of Dex +4
(8000) Pink Rhomboid Sphere Ioun Stone (+2 con)
(11100) Mithral Chain Shirt +3
(4000) Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 atk)
(9000) Cloak of Resistance +3
(2000) Ring of Protection +1
(2000) Amulet of Natural Armor +1
(5000) Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
(5000) Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (+1 insight AC)
(30000) Boots of the Battle Herald (30 rounds of greater heroism)
(2000) Handy Haversack
Total: 98k
At the start of the day Jack activates Force Ward (+12 temporary HP) and Shroud of Water (with 2 burn for a total +6 shield AC). He then activates Kinetic Form with 2 burn to turn into a medium Water Elemental. In combat Jack is a switch hitter, using ice blast at range and then kinetic whip up close. Jack can also mix things up with Slick (i.e. grease) and Spark of Life (to summon a Large Water Elemental). In a pinch Jack can empower (1 burn) or maximize (2 burn) to make his kinetic whip hurt ( +25/+20 for 9d6+21 or 51 damage per hit).
After building this I have a couple thoughts:
- This build has a good power progression. At level 1 you can either blast or grease. By 8 you can use Kinetic Whip for free and have Weapon Finesse. By 12 you get more flexibility with an AoE and summoning.
- This build doesn't really need many feats outside of PBS, Precise Shot and Weapon Finesse. With more time I would replace the rest of the "filler" feats with something that would give more combat flexibility. Maybe some sort of intimidate option? Or Whirlwind Attack? If Vital Strike works with Kinetic Whip then that is the obvious choice (actually Vital strike shouldn't stack - imagine VS + Empower or Maximize!). I could also see grabbing Wild Arcana a bunch to add more options - I didn't since I am sticking to PFS rules.
- This feels like a wizard build by being very SAD, having very low gear requirements and one save that really needs to be shored up. All that gear gets you on a Kineticist is defence (AC/Saves) and stat bumps.
- Grab every attack bonus you can. This class seems tailor made for the Boots of the Battle Herald - no swift actions and a need for more attack and saves. Missing out on Boots of Speed hurts but +4 attack is far more important. Does the greater heroism temporary HP stack with Force Shield? Actually how does the Boots of the Battle Herald give temporary HP - is it refreshed every round?
- Before burn this build has amazing defense outside of the Will save. I estimate that you could use an extra 3 burn before getting in trouble (giving you a total of 99 HP after temporary hp/nonlethal)
- Since I specialized in form infusions I stayed away from composite blasts and substance infusions since the majority of them cost burn every time. I feel like if I need to nova I can use metakinesis.
- With the human bonus and 12 int you have 4 skill points per level. This isn't terrible but with poor mental stats and no extra out of combat utility this build will fall short in social situations.
Anyways I think that this is a great first step for the class. Let me know if I made any glaring errors.
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