Zhangar wrote: Anything from Tome of Horrors should be reprinted in the module. Bestiary 2 and Bestiary 3 critters are available on Paizo's website - check out the PRD. Awesome, thanks! That gives a lot more space in the mod for more rooms and descriptions.
IejirIsk wrote:
True, if that's all you want to do, my original point was that they have a very limited formula list, which severely limits their versatility as potion makers. Its also easier to use the infusion discovery and just hand others your extracts, though the # per day is very limited.
I saw in one of Mary's previous posts that she estimated the number of Rune Giants at 34, based on the number of stasis chambers in the upper city. Has everyone been using that number? It seems reasonable, though a bit on the high side. There's 500 giants in the encampment, along with some unspecified numbers of other giants in Jotunberg and the Shalaria - but what are they all doing? I'm trying to make the city feel both epic and deserted, and haven't quite hit on the right combination yet. I can't decide if it is more like 'Escape from New York' or 'I Am Legend' - or something I haven't hit on yet. A couple things I've decided is that there must be some kind of market. Even if all that's being traded there is the contents of whatever some giants had in their bags, plus possibly things brought by the denizens of Leng, there should be some bartering and trading going on. There should also be a commissary somewhere, but I haven't figured out yet where the food is coming from.... feeding 500 or 600 giants is no easy task, so someone is producing a LOT of food, somehow. The remoteness of Xin-Shalast really works against it in terms of trade, which makes you wonder how it ever functioned as a city.
The big encounters at the beginning of Sins of the Saviors are a blast, even for the DM. I liked Fortress for the old school feel, and Sins is definitely a good challenge for a DM. Keep going! My group finally got to Spires and I'm excited to see them begin it. They may not be so excited about being stomped. :)
Sean Mahoney wrote:
I don't think there is one, really. Its clear from the module introductions and some comments here that a variable amount of time can pass inbetween mods, and even between some events in the mods. The most closely tied together are the first two, because of the one NPC that appears in both. That one, it actually requires you to separate the two out in time, so certain events can happen if your party does not take long enough finishing off the goblins. Other than that, considering there are several very long overland treks, and the possibility of post-mod work, the events are all variable and may be quite far apart. Hook Mountain Massacre and The Fortress of the Stone Giants, in particular, can be quite far apart in time, if you like, or not.
I'd really like to run this adventure with as much risk for the PC's as I think it was intended. So far, while they've had to work hard to kill Mokmurian and Kazaven, my players have not been as challenged as they should be. Any recommendations on how to make this adventure as challenging as it should be? I'm not saying it isn't challenging, mostly I'm looking for DM advice on how to fully take advantage of what's in the adventure. Maybe I'm being too easy on them or my tactics suck!
Joey Virtue wrote:
Joey, that link did not work for me, just took me to the paizo.com page. I just finished running Sins of the Saviors, and I used a lot of your suggestions. I also put 2 T. Mummies and 2 Dread Wraiths into the final encounter with Kazaven. That battle went really long, though it wasn't quite as deadly as I would have hoped. In retrospect, all of the wizards in Runeforge need more wands and scrolls of damage spells, including Fireball and Lightning Bolt. Each one typically has 2 or 3 good damage spells, then 2 or 3 more minor damage spells, and that's not enough. They also don't have enough area of effect spells (even with your changes). I'm going to look at your suggestions and really work over Khalib before they run into him and see if it helps.
Joey Virtue wrote: I made the level tougher by adding Coin Golems from one of the Goodman game suplements makes the over all level much more difficult I covered it in my changes to 6 players thread Thanks, I missed the coin golems part. I fully plan on using your Kazaven enhancements for 6 players, but I'm thinking I have to change his spells a bit too. Some area of affect stuff maybe.
James Jacobs wrote:
Of course! Just testing. :)
Set wrote:
If you are trying to say that its ok to adventure with LE characters because they won't act evil part of the time.... I can't see how that works. What would your LE character do in a mod where he or she doesn't gain anything, and other evil factions don't lose? In other words, if the LE character stands to gain nothing, and all that's done is benefit the greater good by helping others, I think he's going to have a bit of a problem - especially if those who benefit are the GOOD opponents of his deity. You're talking about a very limited, one time situation where evil allies with good because they don't feel like getting crushed, that's different. I just can't see that as justification for including evil characters in an organized play situation on a regular basis.I'd like to see the idea of including Cheliax as a faction reconsidered, or making the Cheliax faction good rebels against the leadership of the country.
DarkWhite wrote: I'd be willing to wait until Season 1 and the release of the Pathfinder RPG before making a call on this one. One of the goals of Pathfinder Beta was to make 1st level play less vulnerable. If the Pathfinder RPG retains one of the bonus hit points options from the Beta, +2 +2 -2 stat modifiers, Sorcerous Bloodlines and other enhancements, you might find that 1st level play is more enjoyable, and not want to skip past it in the space of one "intro mod". I'm not worried about less vulnerable - I just don't find 1st level very interesting any more, haven't for years. Those things won't make it more interesting. Note that I wasn't suggesting skipping past it in one mod - it would still take TWO mods to complete first level. Two seems to be plenty for me.
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Going back to a previous post: Joshua J. Frost wrote:
I'd modify this to say: start a second character when you hit 4th level. I'd like to see this in the future PFS rules as a recommendation for players. A person with only a 1st or 2nd level character has no choice, they can't play anything else, but once you hit 4th, making a 1st level character lets you help others get into the game. Also makes life easier for the marshal and DM. It also resolves the concern about advancing too fast - you won't if you spread the scenarios out a bit. However, I agree with some of the others that leveling from 1st to 2nd is too slow - I'd really like to see the equivalent of 'Intro mods' that are worth 2 XP. I've done first level before, lots of times, I'd like to be done with it as soon as possible. After that, advancement is fine, maybe a bit too fast after 4th.
Draco Bahamut wrote:
I know, though it is specific to a small part of the world, and that can be confusing, or not helpful for Pathfinder Society players, where the scenarios for the most part are set elsewhere. It also isn't helping infrequent or first time visitors to the Society part of the website.
Erik,
We had a good time with the scenario. I was DM'ing for a couple guys that looooove talking - so of course they had to go talk to the actors before attending the show. Lots of adlibbing about who was out sick and who was filling in for whom. Good stuff! I like the comment about more zombies, I threw in a few random ones just to keep things moving, so to speak.
Plissken wrote: Well, that's all the questions I had. Thank you everyone for your help. I look forward to starting some games. I already purchased Silent Tide. A couple of really basic questions on character creation. If you create a character today, it's based entirely on the d20 SRD and the Pathfinder Society guide, correct? The beta Pathfinder rules are not allowed yet. There will be a conversion to the Pathfinder rules in August 2009. Looking forward to playing my first pathfinder scenario at ConnCon!
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Other than the action figures, what have people used for the Storm Giants, Cloud Giants and Rune Giants in PF 6? Has anyone come up with suggestions for the harridans and other lamia-kin yet?
Gray wrote: Stuff that makes sense. Thanks guys. For some reason, I had it in my head that I'm in for a TPK if they don't figure out the order ahead of time. Not a TPK, but if they destroy a glyph that isn't the restoration glyph first, wait a day, then do another, they should have SOME way of finding out that the first glyph they destroyed is recreated. The doomsday score, however you present it, might not be enough of a clue. Maybe each time they see a glyph, give them a knowldege check, and seeing the glyph gives them some insight into the information they got from Thorn's End, which will eventually reveal the nature of each of the focus glyphs. I wouldn't let them be unlucky enough to randomly try the restoration glyph last and have to do the other 4 all over again - that would just be cruel. Unless of course they are really stupid or stubborn about it.
James Jacobs wrote:
Thanks again, James. I have to admit, like I said, I wouldn't have thought about showing the score, but after you suggested it I started thinking of some sort of item or device that would do it, and your suggestion of using the glyphs themselves would work very well. I appreciate the time and and feedback! Despite my questions, I'm really looking forward to running this AP, especially for the guy that wants to play a drow.
Dance of Ruin wrote:
That seems like an excellent idea. Maybe a series of medium to high (DC 25) knowledge arcana or religion checks will give them the feeling that the moment of no return is approaching fast. No specifics, just a sense that forces are moving quickly towards the end. It obviously been designed so that no warnings will come from gods or other forces.
James Jacobs wrote:
My memory of mod 17 must be fuzzy, I don't remember it specifying that much detail on the working of the glyphs or the timeline, just some generic information about how Allevrah has the info, is now a drow, and she knows enough to invoke them. I guess I was looking for something more along the lines of a roleplaying method, rather than giving them the Doomsday score. That seems too meta-gamish for me. I never would have thought of just openly sharing that, same goes for the similiar scoring methods in the earlier mods.
James Jacobs wrote:
AHH! <sound of players running screaming> You said the evil word 'math'! That will create the necessary sense of fear and terror! I agree, a hard time line is very difficult to pull off, as it really puts the time line in the hands of the players, unless you've calculated it perfectly, or manipulate events shamelessly. So, given what I remember of the path, the PC's do not know this much detail about the workings of the glyphs, so they don't know why it takes this long. Would it be reasonable to say that what they learned from the information at Thorn's End would include some hints that the moons need to be in just the right phases, and that such an event is coming soon? Other possibilities might include some prophet or seer giving them a warning in Kyonin, even if they were told previously there would be no warnings.
One weak point I've found with this AP, and that's how the group gets a sense of impending doom, and how to work it into the adventure. How are they supposed to know, after Devil's Elbow, that the drow can pull of a world ending collision? If they can, why haven't they? I know this is difficult to do, but somehow the PC's need to experience that they are in a race against time - and they will die if they fail. That being said, they need some kind of sign or portent that they better move fast, and cooperate with the elves in finding out what they need to know.
Can anyone expand on what the timing is in this adventure? I realize that by using the 'Doomsday score', the idea is to make the scenario independent of a time frame, but I think that robs the scenario of its sense of urgency.
Joey Virtue wrote:
Yes, I did, thank you, and its been very helpful, unfortunately I found it after I ran Mokmurian. I figured some additional advice would be helpful, after someone asked for more ideas.
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Thank you Greg, glad to hear your thoughts on it. I think what I'm going to do is introduce the altitude problems in Sins of the Saviors, (the trip to and including Rimeskull) so they get the idea they will need to buy items for the later expedition, rather than having to teleport out of Xin Shalast. I can try, at least, sometimes hints just pass on by. I checked, and the items you mentioned are NOT included in Sins, so I was considering a cache of those too, which should be significant to the players. Maybe a handy haversack with a couple of necklaces of adaptation will make them wonder about what's coming in the future.
One thing I think all the arcane casters suffer from is the limitation of SRD spells only. Particularly, the orb spells from Complete Arcane. If you use them in your campaign, consider swapping out a few magic missiles for the Lesser Orbs (or non-offensive spells) and the full power orbs at 4th level. Empowered lesser orbs are quite effective. The sonic orb is a good choice, as its hard to defend against. Improved Mage Armor is also good. Also - particularly for Mokmurian, give him some sort of ally, whether summoned, or just a guardian in his quarters. The one on 6 battle is very one-sided.
I have a question about the location of the Spires. The text says it is in the 'death zone', and it is also mentioned that within the various buildings, air is maintained. How do the inhabitants get from building to building? I realize that isn't much of an issue NOW, but it would have been in the past. How does anyone get from the lower city to the Spires without serious problems? There's also a reference to dragons in the past with Necklaces of Adaptation, but none of the NPC's I checked have one, nor an equivalent item. Also, how am I supposed to get my players (qualified or not) to take the Altitude Affinity feat, which appears to be nearly mandatory to complete the mod? Most don't qualify for it, and even if they did, how do they know they'll need it? At this rate, they'll climb to the lower city, then be stuck because they all come down with altitude sickness. There's no useful items in Runeforge or Jorgenfist, that I recall, if there are, please correct me.
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Recently finished the last couple of Planet Stories books. The Dark World was interesting, though too short, I really would have liked to read something about what happened after Ganelon was defeated. I really did like Swordsman of Mars! Also recently went back into the archives and re-read the first two books in Donaldson's Gap series, which gets a lot better after book 1. Just finished His Majesty's Dragon, which was decent, but I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
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Erik Mona wrote:
Please keep them in mind, I'd love to see them re-released, with better cover art on the last few.
Azzy wrote:
No, I'm just not explaining myself well. You're absolutely right, they don't, you can invent characters for graphic novels just like regular novels. However, if you want to create buzz about the campaign world, it would help if there was a tie-in, and I don't think the iconics are strong enough. A great comic/graphic novel would create buzz for Golarion, but I think it works better the other way around. Take someone or something from the campaign world that people are already interested in, expand on it in a graphic novel, and you get both more interest in the campaign world, and people who were interested in the campaign world will jump on the fiction. To me, the iconics are stat blocks, and I can't even remember their names. If the authors had chosen to include the Runelords iconics in Crimson Throne as NPC's, I'd remember them, and be more interested. People who didn't buy the Runelords series won't have heard of them.
James Jacobs wrote:
Thanks James, good stuff. You're right, its possible! Unfortunately, I've run into the other kind of paladins - the ones that are more NG than LG, and aren't disruptive at all, because they aren't really paladins...
Blue_eyed_paladin wrote:
This one bugged me too - would a paladin, or any other LG character actually accept working at the Goblin? Not sure they would, which immediately puts the party at odds with each other. I really have a problem with modules that can't (or shouldn't) be played by a Good alignment.
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Funny!! Thanks for the explanation. I know you didn't mean it that way, but I couldn't help make the mental connection. I doubt too many other folks did (except big Steelers fans) so its cool.
Azzy wrote:
Actually, since I'm not aware of a comic with either of those characters, I was thinking of some of the Greyhawk NPC's, who were famous as part of the setting, and some of the famous NPC's of FR. But you made my point, those characters appeared in print as part of a story before they appeared elsewhere.
Just one addendum, the name 'Lymas Smeed' struck a bad note with me. Since there's currently a 'Limas Sweed' in the real world sports news at the moment, its way too much of a coincidence, unless the real Mr. Sweed is a fan and told someone they could borrow his name. Something else to watch for, please!
Here's two scenarios that might help: low Int, high Wis, Cha ? (not really relevant) A cleric with a wand that does something they don't normally use on a daily basis, say Searing Light. At the end of a tough combat, when he hadn't used the wand, and the party tactician asks why, the answer is 'I always forget I have that darn thing.'. He's wise, uses his spells properly, but sometimes forgets things that aren't right under his nose or part of his routine. If someone reminds him, he'll blast away. high Int, low Wis, Cha? (not relevant)
wrote: I think the Iconics are very strong characters. Which ones? The ones from Rise of the Runelords, or Second Darkness, or Crimson Throne? Aren't there 3 sets? Some of them have decent backstory, but because they've never done anything or appeared in novels, they won't instantly generate interest like well known NPC's from more established settings. This is one of the problems with a setting with no significant NPC's, there's no memorable personalities.
If its a graphic novel yes, manga, no. The problem I see, is that it has to have both a strong setting (which I think you have) and strong characters/NPCs... which we don't have yet. Not to mention technical details like good artwork and writing. I used to love the old AD&D and Forgotten Realms comics.
[quote=] The reason I am in favor of them is the removal of the varying math round to round. I am in favor of a set amount regardless (hence my suggestions). Anything that removes the "Hmmmm...not sure how much this round..." indecisiveness, spontaneous math, and metagaming to figure out exactly how much to PA without a chance to miss is a good step in my book. I have to admit, in my game with relatively new players, power attack causes more delay than anything else when it comes to combat. That, and the requirement that you have to tell the DM what the power attack number is every round. If the goal is to simplify and speed up combat, the changes are good. On the other hand, I've never been a fan of making D&D 'simpler', so it was fine the way it was.
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