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Roll a d20 and add bonuses instead of starting at 10. Every now and then spells will have awesomely high save DCs and now and again awfully easy to beat DCs.


I think they should be 1d4. Commoners are d4 arent' they? I see no reason a wizard should be tougher then an oridnary man until he or she gains levels and lots of spells.


I don't see a problem with the 19th level fighter, 1st level wiz being a weak spell caster- he might be a 20th level character but he really is just a 1st level spell caster.

Now if the fellow was a cleric 10, wiz 10 I'd agree they seem a bit weak for a character with 20 levels worth of spell casting power.


Save or Die just isn't much fun. For the player or for the DM. It feels sudden and arbitray and life is like that enogh of the time that it's no fun in fantasy.

Now Save or Die Slowly can be a heck of a lot of fun. It provides continuing drama, the doomed characetr gets a chance to die with his boots on or run off wimperign into the night.

Take this scenario-

A band of warrirors led by a would-be-king is deep in a dungeon complex and thewould-be-kinggets in a duel with a witchqueen that dominates her people. She is uing a posion dagger and gets in a lucky hit, thewould-be-kingmisses his save and dies.

that is a lot much less fun then-

A band of warriroslead by a would-be-king is deep in a dungeon complex and the would-be king gets in a duel with a witchqueen that dominates her people. She is uing a posion dagger and gets in a lucky hit, the would be king misses his save and lops off slays the witchqueen. tehw band escapes the dungeon to a nearby village. Over the next day the would-be-king slowly weakens but does not let that overcome him and he fights alongside his band of warriors aagainst the final retributive asault of the withcqueens people, the would-be-king endures the battle and takes his last breath standing in victory alongside his brothers and the people they defended.

Posion or death mechanics that kill slowly provide the chance for more dynamic and exciting story telling.
I've been playing with an option latley where poisons moslty do damage every round for 10 or 20 rounds/minutes/hours (depending on the poison), and the posioned characters certainly get a lot of attention from the other players. Far more then they would if they failed a save, got their body looted and left propped up in a corner somewhere in a dungeon. they'll seek healign and curing, they'll want revenge, they'll certainly treat that situation much more seriosuly then somethign they can shrug off after loosign a few points becaseu it's comign again.
Death effects can work in a similar manner infliciting a negative level each round/minute/whatever until the character is dead.

Say no to "Save or Die", say yes to "Save or Die Slowly".


scry and all such divinatiosn could have their effects mitigated but not rendered useless by allowing a saving throw. In the area of effect of a divination spell, make a will save and go unnoticed or even worse (for the caster) notice the spell.


hogarth wrote:


I think the idea is that a fight against an appropriate creature at level 1 should be similar in terms of how it runs to a fight against an appropriate creature at level 20. Whereas in 3.5 edition, a level 1 fight runs roughly like:

"Wizard casts Sleep, fighter performs coup de grace; if wizard is out of Sleep spells, wizard does nothing while fighter attacks."

And at level 20, a fight runs more like:

"Wizard casts various buff spells on himself and on fighter, then fighter tries to look busy while wizard casts spells."

At level 1...what happend to the cantrips, which have telling effect at level 1 and the bonus spell the caster almost certainly has. How about that crossbow or darts the spell caster is packing for times he has run out of spells?

At level 20, why is the fighter just standing there trying to look busy? She's a killing machine with some sweet magic items that has just been buffed up by her friend the wizard.

There are far wider range of playing stlyes and tactics offered in FRP than weak artillery with jr tank and later soon to be retired tank accompanying tac-nuke armed artillery.


Core rule Races and Classes

Original D&D: races- Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Human; Classes- Fighter, Cleric,Magic-User

BECMI D&D Classes: Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Cleric,Cleric(Druid), Fighter, Magic User, Thief

AD&D races; Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Gnome, Human; Classes: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Monk, Assassin, Cleric, Druid, Magic-User, Illusionist. (Bard-optional).

2e: races- Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Half-Elf, Gnome, Human ; classes- Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Rogue, Bard, Cleric, Cleric(druid), Mage, Mage(Illusuionist)


hogarth wrote:


As a previous poster put it: If you like rolling for hit points, why don't you roll for skill points, number of spell slots, number of feats, etc. as well?

If you roll ability score you are rolling number of skill points and number of spell slots thanks to ability modifiers.


An appendix with Monsters with class levesl done chart style similar to the npcs in the 3e DMG would be cool.


It's a game dice are a fun parts of games. My current camapign has a 2nd level fighter with more hp then a 6th level one, oh well the 6th level fighter just isn't tough.


3.0 worked just fine. Let's have some fantasy weapons built for little folks and big folk and leave themedium weapons as they are. Needle swords and Petal blades for the pixies, kneeaxe for a gnome, skullcrack hammers for ogres, stuff like that. Evocative, fun and not contrary to real world definitions.


Greaver Blade wrote:


Discipline (Con)
Discipline is a measure of how much self control you have, and your ability to maintain yourself in stressful situations.

Couldn't a WILL save do that?


Ross Byers wrote:
(If you don't believe me, try holding a piece of two-inch PVC pipe in any type of grip. Then try a one-inch piece of pipe. To a halfling, a human-sized grip would feel like the 2-inch pipe.

I can easily imagine a 2 inch diameter grip, I've used polearms in recreasionist and LARP combat and they often can be 1.5 to 2 inches in diameter at the grip. the handle diamter had no impact on ability to wield the weapons, how much they wobbled if they got long was a problem and the traction on the grip had the hugest impact.

My son is 2/3 my height and about 1/3 my weight, he has no trouble gripping my bastard sword, he just isn't strong enough to wield it.

At 10 or so my father started teaching my brother and I how to use knives and tomahawks in fighting, adult sized weapons in that range weren't' an issue for us.


Spiritwalker wrote:

Yes but a huge spear in Arcana Evolved (3.0) would be sized for a giant to wield. 2 handed weapon and all that.

When the PC find or buy weapons they are still sized for a given wielder size, there is even a spell in the rule set whose hole function is to make the (small)short sword into the appropriate hilt and balance for a non small charterer to use as the equivalent weapon.

The hafling is not going to pick up the human's longsword and start two-handing it (without a penalty) unless the weapon gets sized to match him.

That makes no sense in the multi-racial world usually portayed by modern D&D print campaigns. The races are everywhere, certainly halflings and humans. A halfling fighter is profficient with simple and martial weapons, the longsword is a common martial weapon used by humans, is see no reason at all that halfling fighters wouldn't be trained to heft these suckers in a two handed grip.


see wrote:
JDJarvis wrote:

Ex: A rapier is a one handed sword intended for thrusting attacks about 2.5 centimeters wide at the base, a meter long and weighing in at about a kg. Change that to 18" long and it isn't a rapier anymore.

Okay. So, what's your suggestion for the name of a weapon with the same proportions as a rapier, scaled for someone who is three feet high? And what makes that name any more sensible than "Small rapier"?

A needlblade. A pixie sword. A thrornblade. I'd love to see more evocative fantastical names and avoid such description nullifiers as small greatsword and tiny maul.


see wrote:
JDJarvis wrote:
Tiny Greatsword? Small longspear? doesn't anyone see the problem there?
The sleeves on a long-sleeved shirt for a three-year-old might only be as long as the sleeves on a short-sleeved shirt for me, but that doesn't make the kid's shirt a short-sleeved shirt; it's a tiny long-sleeved shirt.

Clothing is defiend by how it looks and fits it's wearer and the conditions it's inteded to be worn in. Weapons aren't a fashion accessory.(well not all of them)

Ex: A rapier is a one handed sword intended for thrusting attacks about 2.5 centimeters wide at the base, a meter long and weighing in at about a kg. Change that to 18" long and it isn't a rapier anymore.


Thraxus wrote:

The only wierdness I have run into with the 3.5 weapon system, which 3.0 prevented, was small reach weapons. When a two handed weapon is defined as being the same size category as the user, that makes a small longspear about 4 feet in overall length and a medium longspear around 8 feet. I can see the medium longspear having reach, but I have a hard time accepting the small longspear as a reach weapon.

Other than that, the 3.5 system does work rather well.

Edit: That is one other bit of wierdness in 3.5. The cost of a small weapon is the same as a medium weapon. Smaller weapons and armor should have a price discount.

Frankly I think the3.5 method is daft when it comes to specific weapons.

Tiny Greatsword? Small longspear? doesn't anyone see the problem there?

Broader category weapons I'd have no issue with.
Tiny axe, small axe, medium axe, large axe, huge axe ...no problem.


Pete Apple wrote:
JDJarvis wrote:


Why not just place a bunch of 1hp kobolds instead of worrying about a minion template?

The primary reason is that this breaks down once you get to higher levels. 1hp kobolds have AC and Attack bonuses that are meaningless to a character of that level. The kobold will only ever hit on a natural 20 and the players know that.

So it's not just "minions" it's "level appropriate minions" that would be interesting. Minions that might actually get a shot in before they're killed. It's more of a cinematic flare for the game really.

And, by the way, I don't see it needing to be a part of Pathfinder. Might be interesting as an optional rule written up on the boards here or something.

maybe a "gang-up bonus". If a defender is flanked at the start of the round all attackers starting the round adjacent to the attacker add the total # of attackers to hit rolls. Maybe only the first attacker shoudl hit for hp damage all the rest inflict subdual damage. This would allow for characters to possibly surive wading in against 50 orcs and get saved by buddies if one wanted such action.

I also admit I don't get higher level minions that go poof in 1 hit, if they are higher level...they shoudln't go "poof" in one hit all too often.


Quijenoth wrote:

I know its close to the release of Alpha 3 but having read the minions excerpt on the wizards site I think this is well worth bringing into the pathfinder alpha test ASAP so we can see if it actually works to improve on the game.

My initial thoughts are that unlike the 4e version minions should be made backwards compatable via a minion template. simply put if you have an existing encounter with 4 kobolds and a 3rd level kobold sorcerer by turning the 4 kobolds into minions you would increase the number by a X (probably 1 +1 per 5 CR or some other funky table) so an existing encounter would become 8 kobolds and a 3rd level sorcerer.

Thoughts?

Why not just place a bunch of 1hp kobolds instead of worrying about a minion template?


Anry wrote:

Honestly, more often you find psionics in sci-fi not fantasy......

Actually thinking about it, there was a pair of threads that were requesting an extra race and Pathfinder specific classes, a psionic race and core psionic classes would probably be the way to go.

Soon as psionics turn up in sci-fi its stops being sci-fi and is now science fantasy.

A psionic race and core psionic class would be a good idea.


Kirth Gersen wrote:


Handle Animal + Ride is a no-brainer. Why they were ever separate is beyond me.

Because you don't ride every animal.


tracking spells withotu chaning the game at all:

Get a piece of graph paper. Write the spell name on it, next to the spell name circle a number of boxes equal to the duration of the spell. Each time one of those time units it up, cross off a box.

Repeat with each spell until you fill up the sheet.

changing the game:

everytime you cast a spell with duration you have to make a spellcraft roll vs 10+spell level + number of spells maintainedx 3.

Roll a 1- all the spells end next round, including the one you just cast.
Miss the roll - your oldest spell ends.
Make the roll- all your spells keep working.


Have a saving throw on detect and divination spells if they involve a being. The save can either be for no effect or for the target to notice the detector/snoop/scryer is "looking" at them.


I like the confriming roll it adds tension and excitement to combat. It also aloows a players choices in tactics and charcter design to have an impact on the outcome of a critical roll, a straight 20 does not.


hmmm...action points to move a little fatser. More then one combat feat a round. max out a die on a damage roll. maybe.


the combat chain does read sort of like katas in martial arts. step A to Step B to Step C. If you know the kata the other guy is using and he isn't very flexible you can avoid or counter blows much more easily. It ads a layer of system mastery/player skill to the game.

"oh no he's power attacking, don't get to close to him."

you can put in those cheesie lines "Your Gorgon Fist shall be of no avail against my Wind Step...ahahahahaah"

players may be able to anticipate the next move, not a bad thing at all.


"use rope" is nifty in a micromanaged campaign. But it isn't really necessary all by itself. Survival skill would server well for most wilderness related rope uses. The climb skill can be assigned rope use for tricky wall scaling (why wouldn't it?). And setting grappling hooks in place is certainly in the domain of a hit roll.

A feat... "Knots and Lines", +2 to all hit rolls and skill checks involving rope.


I don't like theft wrapping together picking purses and opening locks. While they are both skills that use nimble fingers they are both very different skills. I've seen enough crime movies to see there is dramatic utility in having the skills separate; in hundreds of stories specialists who can open safes or pick locks are important to the story. Picking pockets requires a degree of subterfuge that picking a lock just doesn't require. There are different classes of criminals in the real world that specialize in either skill as well.


all buff spells-
Have all buff spells assign flat scores. Not uncapped additions. So Strength of the bear (or whatever) would give one a STR of 20, strength equal to or greater then that already, well then it doesn't work (can't be munchkined into an attack spell). Higher level buffs, higher scores but always the same scores for each spell.

divinations-
have all divination spells allow everyone in the area of effect a saving throw to notice, "we are being watched". It's a good dramatic device and it alters the impact of divination/buff/teleport.


I like it. Other then +20 to hit and a lot of HP, fighters get dull at high levels. Level 19 and the fellow can turn blows with a specific type of armor for 10 points of DR not overwhelming and one does have to be level 19. Wreck that armor or shield and those DR are gone, the barbarian wil be doing fine in comparisson.


why not a maneuver skill?

It can be balance, climb, swim, (run?) and fly all built into one.


keep skill points.

Let folks pile on the skill points if they wish.

Get rid of the cap on cross-classed skills (keep them costing 2pts a rank however).

Let folsk break the current limits on class skill sif they want to pay double.

It's fun to have a fellow who is greta at only one or two things or simply fair at a bunch of stuff.


I don't know if any new HP roll up methods are needed. hitdice + con bonus work fine.

If turning is giving healing surges, healign will be easier (at least in adventures with lot's of undead).

Maybe a simple second wind rule or wound bandaging rule that gives folks 1d6+level after a fight if they have long enough to pause (10 minute rest or a healing/first aid check once after a fight ). I really don't think folks have too few HP, but given the abstract nature of HP it really shouldn't be too hard to get some of them back.


I think the energy surge for turning and rebuking is nifty idea. Not sure about the undead fleeing, unless they are smart enough to relaize they could be toast if they get a second wave of positive energy. that has always been an annoying part of trun undead for me as DM.

Maybe just freezing in awe?


I like the idea of applying but one combat feat a round. It stops the..."wait a minute, i actually hit , i forgot to apply feat X when i told yuo my hit roll" or "No i still have 35 Hp, those 12 points i took from the hobgoblin didn't happen becasue i have feat N, i just forgot to mention it before". If players want advanatges they have to pay attention and use the charcetrs abilities, they have to learn to play better.

As for the "chains" where feat X has to be used before feat Y , i'm not to sure on that, have to see it in play.

Gender

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Can rub stomach and pat head at same time

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Centered

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