Horus's page

Abney Park’s Airship Pirates looks interesting

Cakebread and Walton.

Cubicle 7. Scroll down.

My only disappointment with the essentials line is the lack of rituals and that they cancelled the Class compendium book, I know they've put the CC online but I like books.

Personally I'd have been happy with four more books;

Class Compendium

Heroes of Natures kingdom: the other two druids, and some more primal sub classes.

Heroes of some such kingdoms (detailing some more specialist mages, more martial & divine subclasses and whatever seemed appropriate).

Essential Magic: a book containing rituals, magic items and item creation (maybe an alchemy subsystem)

With that I'd pretty much be set.

An ongoing Monster Vault line would be nice as well, more monsters, some adventures and pogs.

Horus wrote:

Revisions? Not to content I hope.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Nah, just technicalities. The stories are all there. :)

Cool. I've been getting a great vibe from the books so far, reminds me why I used to like gaming fiction.

Horus wrote:

Any ideas as to when the new books / ePubs will be available in the UK via iBooks?

I've purchased everything up to Plague of Shadows so far and haven't been disappointed yet.

Apple has an approval process that can take anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks, and they just asked us for some revisions yesterday. We'll resubmit them as soon as we can, but I'm not sure if that restarts the clock on the approval process or not. If so, it could take another couple of weeks.

Revisions? Not to content I hope.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Any ideas as to when the new books / ePubs will be available in the UK via iBooks?

I've purchased everything up to Plague of Shadows so far and haven't been disappointed yet.

I think you would be hard pressed not to find a suitable location for the type of adventure / campaign you want in the entire Golarion+ setting. Maybe some more exotic stylized settings like Darksun or Violet Dawn would be a hard fit...

There's always the upcoming Midgard setting by Open Design

Go to Midgard.

They've already released a Nortlands book that looks interesting.

Horus wrote:

Does this book incorporate your other releases?

Or will I still find value in the other three books?

Tomorrow I'll be releasing the table of contents and giving short descriptions of each, but the short answer is, "Yes, includes the Exploration, Kingdom Building, Mass Combat, Feats, Spell, and Secret Societies PDF releases." Some of the sections saw small changes and minor cleanups while other sections got overhauls and upgrades. There is also a section of Magic Items as well.

Thanks will buy this for my Kingmaker game.

Preview week for the Book of the River Nations: Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building has begun. Today, download wallpaper for your computer monitor and see the whole cover of this beautiful book.

Does this book incorporate your other releases?

Or will I still find value in the other three books?

I would not convert Birthright to 4E. To me, Birthright was less about dungeon crawls and personal combat and more about playing the king in his court, or fighting massive wars with hundreds of troops.

You could technically run either type of campaign in Cerilia, but not utilizing the domain rules for Birthright would be such a waste!

That being said, my edition of choice for Birthright is Savage Worlds and I have been using the Hellfrost Player's Guide to make up my own conversion. I would be happy to provide the link on your site once I have more of it done.

Its a good job I don't use 4e to dungeon crawl then 8-).

As a system it's as least as effective as the original 2e mechanics.

The skill challenge system offers a unified mechanical base from which to effect both the domain turns and war actions.

Please do post re: your savage worlds game, I know others have used that system.

Horus wrote:

Come and join our group

Birthright Unconquered

A place for fans of the last and best 2e setting to review, discuss and create together

So what's the goal of the group ?

Converting Birthright to 4e ?

Not necessarily although since it's the system I use I'd like to see some posting on this.

Mostly I thought it might be a good place for fans to post reviews and opinions of the books, discuss likes and dislikes etc. And also converting to systems other than 2e/D&D. Maybe share campaign ideas and memories etc.

My delusional hope is that if we can gather everyone in one place where wotc can see they may one day resurrect the setting. Or at least some DDI article support.

Come and join our group

Birthright Unconquered

A place for fans of the last and best 2e setting to review, discuss and create together

Consider changing the assasin vine to a trap / skill challege style encounter.

Will definitely sign up for this. Roll on payday!

Paul Watson wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

This AP seems really cool. Settlers of Catan meets dnd. Anyone got wood for sheep?

Only in Scottland.

1)Scotland, one T.

2) It's Wales that has that dubious reputation. The Scots are the drunkards.

Fixed.

Then why is the joke "Why do Scotsmen wear kilts? So the sheep won't hear zippers."

It appears to be a cross cultural celtic joke, as a Welshman I've heard a million and one versions of the same tired joke. Welsh, Irish, Scottish and even Cornish (I'm not even sure they have a sheep farming tradition).

Mmm, Whitethrone......that'll fit nicely, thanks Paizo Genius guys!

Koldoon wrote:

I'm thinking about starting an online 4e game with the pathfinder setting. I'd prefer to do one of the pathfinder APs, but I am unsure which one would work best, both in terms of ease of conversion and for running in an online setting.

Any suggestions?

- Ashavan

Someone (name escapes me at the moment) is doing a 4E conversion of Rise of the Runelords and even has a blog page for it. There should be a thread in this forum about it.

Scott Betts, you can find it here Tales from the Rusty Dragon.

It's a very good adaptation, makes me sorry I've already run the body of this campaign in 3.5, oh well.

Scott frequents these boards quite a bit and I'm sure he'll respond to any queries you have.

I'm currently in the early stages of a setting project (one of my many projects :)) for my own pleasure and I was considering an idea. Before revealing my grand idea in any detail I was wondering if you fine people could comment on the effects of;

Merging the fey and primal concepts?

Essentially the Feywild becomes the Primalwild, the primal spirits are fey in origin etc. I stress however that this is not just a mix and match idea but a true mergence, losing and adding ideas as required.

Any pitfalls mechanically or storywise?

Horus wrote:

these boards are treated as a laughing stock of rabid anti-4Eism on other boards

That's okay, other boards are treated as a laughing stock of rabid pro-4eism. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Arguable but a valid point, but it's worth reiterating that these boards are set aside to discuss 4E.

Horus wrote:

You don't have to agree with Wotc and it's PDF approach but can't we just let it drop now? It has been discussed to death, or at least move it to a more appropriate board.

Flag the thread and request it be moved, then. We can't do it ourselves.

Good idea. Thanks.

***Moderators please note I'm not flagging myself as insulting or abusive just the thread. Couldn't see any other way to do it. And just to clarify no one has been particularly unpleasant or rude/abusive but this thread has run it's course and is not far from becoming an argument***

Horus wrote:

I advocated decent moderation during the height of the flame wars and stand by that opinion, these boards are treated as a laughing stock of rabid anti-4Eism on other boards, a far cry from the respect and community from when I first started lurking here.

Did you just insult those of us who dislike 4e?[/sarcasm]

It depends! Are you a rabid anti-4Eist who only posts here to say how much he dislikes the game and the people who play it? If yes I suppose I inadvertently did.

Considering the other boards mentioned are (probably) places where consumers caught up in an abusive relationship with WotC tend to reside, I'm okay with that.

Wotc, yes. Also Enworld, RPGnet, Goodmans, The Piazza etc. A few others that are diehard grognard sites equally disdainful of anything beyond 1e (as is their right) but laughing at those who have nothing better to do than waste their time spewing vitriol on boards that are clearly labelled for the game they espouse to dislike. Each of those sites have fans for & against 4E, but the one of the few things they agree on is how laughable these boards have become thanks to ZERO moderation.

And as far as community goes around here, if you pay close attention you will notice that fans of 4e who voice their like of the system go unmolested.

So fans of the game, posting on boards set aside for discussion of that game go unmolested?? I don't believe it?? And it's not completely true, how many discussions are derailed or even started by those with no interest in the game, [sarcasm]only their POV that the evil & satanic Wotc must be stopped and this blasphemy they call a game erased from existence.[/sarcasm]

Those righteous defenders of the almighty god WotC that insist on showing the infidels the error of their heathen ways on the other hand...

Hmm, fans on a secton of the messageboards about a game they like jumping to the defence of the company making it.......it's just unbeleivable! FFS what do you expect? It's like going to one of those gun shows the americans have or an NRA meeting and shouting "down with GUNS!!"

mouthymerc wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Saying that I won't buy 4e, that I think it's crap, and that wizards has lost all credibility does not violate any of this.

I see. I'm not buying what you're saying, I think your opinions are crap, and you have no credibility with me. Glad to know that's okay.

Of course it isn't okay. Haven't you been reading the posts by Arcmagik and Scott Betts? How dare you go against their ideals of how this forum should be run.

You should leave immediately.

Yes if you don't hate Wotc or 4E and can't understand why you are not permitted to discuss the game/products you enjoy in a civil and positive environment you should leave. That is what a vocal minority want after all.

I think that giving KotS away as a free download is a great idea but one they need to build on.

I'd produce a different adventure quarterly specifically aimed at new roleplayers, including hints and tips for running the game, playing NPC's and other stuff ;-).

I like that WotC are working on their core fan base first but really want them to wean people from computer games to a more imaginative hobby.

***I like computer games but I've yet to come across one that has the flexibility or creative potential of a well run RPG***

This is a great book, for the first time since 2nd edition I want to pay a summoner. Combined with a few conjuring rituals for greater utility/duration (building elementals I'm looking at you) I'll be one happy chappy.

I'm coping the original Jraynack post here (hopefully he won't mind), link to Enworld post at the bottom.

"One of the things we discussed when preparing to publish Adventurer's Guide to Cthonia is two things:

"How can we get it to grow?" and "How can we get the fans involved to make it a living, breathing, every-changing world?"

First, we are developing a strategy for other publishers to get involved, but it is still in the infant stages.

However, for you fans of the new setting, we want to produce a fan netbook focusing on the region of Cthonia. The fans write the material, send it to us, and we produce it (artwork, editing, and the like) and make it FREE to everyone else.

Here are a few rules:
The material you submit must be your own (no copying and pasting from other 4E products) and must follow the GSL (primarily, no copying WotC 4E material or even portions of their material).
And, whatever you send to us will belong to us (the main reason is to maintain our Product Identity). However, be rest assured, whatever you send us it will go in the FREE netbook and not in any of our other products, unless those products are also free.

So if you are game, we are looking for the following for the Cthonia netbook:
New Commands - remember, though similar to rituals, they are less fantastic (as in magical) then rituals.
New Bloodline and Infernal powers
New Feudal Obligations
Interesting NPCs and Cthonian location sites
And mini-adventures or unique encounters that fit the theme of the setting.

So there you have it. Tell us what you think by posting here or at our hosted forums at www.aleapublishing.com.

You may also send your concerns and stuff for the netbook at APGnetbook (at) comcast (dot) net. This address will eventually change after we update our site."

Link: Original post

The PDF issue shouldn't be on the 4E boards in the first place. It has no direct bearing on the game and should be restricted to whatever general board is appropriate.

I would like to think this board is a place for people to discuss 4E including valid and constructive criticism or even opinion (as long as it's expressed as such), not WOTC business practices. Sadly many of the anti-4E/Wotc posters have taken to using it as a personal soapbox.

I advocated decent moderation during the height of the flame wars and stand by that opinion, these boards are treated as a laughing stock of rabid anti-4Eism on other boards, a far cry from the respect and community from when I first started lurking here.

You don't have to agree with Wotc and it's PDF approach but can't we just let it drop now? It has been discussed to death, or at least move it to a more appropriate board.

Unless it suits people otherwise.

Pointless topic of conversation.

And now for an adventure

Link: Three Days Until Dawn.

And a synopsis: This adventure takes place in the region featured in Adventurer's Guide to Cthonia.

Iago the Black, a vampire, returns to his childhood home, Drusholden, to lay claim as its lord. Arrogant and proud, he searches for the tomb of his adversary, Lord Arthur Dunclin, the young knight that drove Iago from Drusholden two hundred years ago. Until he can find the tomb and sleep for three nights to make it his personal gravesite, Iago remains weakened.

In Three Days Until Dawn, characters must lift the undead siege of Drusholden, find the tomb that lies within the Faerie Realm, and destroy Iago before he regains his strength.

This product provides Players and Game Masters with the following for thrilling play:

* An adventure designed for 4th-5th level characters set in the exciting Feudal Lords Campaign SettingTM

* Well-designed encounters, interesting NPCs, and memorable villains

* Great three-dimensional maps

* New skill challenges and more

Although designed for the Feudal Lords Campaign SettingTM, this product easily adapts into your favorite campaign or adventures

Haven't noticed anyone mentioning this yet.

Bought the other day and it's a great product, check it out.

Link: Adventurer's Guide to Cthonia

Mamma Mia is the best selling DVD of all time in the UK. Just goes to show that numbers don't equal quality. ;)

Hey I like Mamma Mia!! LOL

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Horus wrote:

I agree with the poster(s) who highlighted that many of the difficulties people have with the AP's rises from lazy DM'ing.

It's not necessarily the DM that's lazy. Many of the difficulties of 3.x at higher levels (around 9th-12th and up, depending on the people involved) are caused by poor preparation by either the DM or the players. You can have a well prepared DM, but if each player (or even just one or two) takes 5+ minutes to decide what to do and/or calculate the effects each round (because they need to constantly look things up), then play will suffer. If players fail to come up with plans and use teamwork, then they significantly increase the risk of character death and TPKs.

Basically, higher level games demand higher levels of investment from the entire group for successful play. If everybody doesn't make that investment, the game will become increasingly frustrating.

And how is this a difficulty of just 3.x? This is a problem in EVERY rpg out there. The higher the level, the more options, abilities, spells, equipment, etc. *edited for civility*

I have played several different rpgs and the problem persists when players/and or Dm don't come to the table prepared. To insist that its a "difficulty of 3.x" is fairly asinine.

How about calming down? Since we're discussing a 3.x AP my comment was a criticism of the edition we were discussing not a genre wide comparison. Would you like me to compare it to Rolemaster of WHFRP? Just because MANY systems suffer from this doesn't make it any less a problem in 3.X, and I stand by the statement that a prepared DM can alleviate or eliminate this issue.

Reading the PHB2 I feel that a lot of the Invokers flavour is in it's mechanics & selection of prayers and not it's actual description, which is a little weird.

I normally play (When I play) pretty normal characters but I rolled up a drow(dhampyr) Invoker of the Raven Queen for fun.

LOL

If any of my player brought that concept to the table....

It's strange but I can't think of any setting which I can't convert.

I have pages of notes for Al-Qadim and Birthright and I am confident that I could run those settings with the full feel and flavour of my players 2e days.

If your close minded and hidebound then yes you'll hit brick walls.....GO AROUND.

Gods but gamers are meant to be a creative and imaginative bunch.

Rule #1: Remove can't from your vocabulary.
Rule #2: Be flexible in your approach.

A problem or situation is only as difficult as you make it.

My only exception to the above is that I wouldn't convert an existing game, not because I can't but because if I'm already enjoying it why change the formula/feel.

Paizo AP's certainly caused me to switch to 4E.

HOWEVER not because of any fault with them but rather I felt that the fantastic stories they told were better using the 4E mechanic.

If you like I liked the chassis but wanted a better engine.

I agree with the poster(s) who highlighted that many of the difficulties people have with the AP's rises from lazy DM'ing. There is something entirely too lazy about gamers today, they expect their adventures to be plug and play and I think any DM worth his salt will be agog at this concept.

The best adventures mould themselves to suit the PC's not the other way around.

Just my two pennies worth.

Whilst I can't be bothered with the clones I was tempted to run a few BD&D or 1E games as a return to nostalgia.

Hmm, C&C doesn't float my boat and after reading it I see no reason to buy OSRIC (I own the source material/inspiration) but of the two I'm glad OSRIC is out there, it's a great way for those who haven't had the opportunity to go old school to try something remarkably similar.

Personally I'd recommend finding in the following order;

- 1E (If you can find it go with the original)
- OSRIC (A worthy substitute if money and/or time stop you from going with 1E)
- C&C (I don't like this personally but a lot of people do so it must be worth a look)

Nice one OP, I've found this thread interesting an informative. Never would have gone back and given those two games a second look without it.

I think you could get a lot of inspiration from the 2e adventure modules <insert class> challenge I & II. They followed a similar theme to that which I believe you to be espousing.

Any solo adventure has to avoid generica, attempts to match one adventure to all roles are doomed to failiure.

As you stated highlight the strengths and weaknesses of the class the module is designed for, unless your designing the next Tomb of Horrors that is 8-).

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

...Now some of Grimcleavers problems was probably in the set up, sounds like lots of game time was used in just moving - don't even put the minitures on the map until at least some of them are in range of each other, and some of it may have been in expectations, the uber skirmishes I have run did take a long time full sessions, sometimes two, if your not down for that then it does not work, but its not in the model itself. Table Top RPGs adapt themselves to this kind of wargame like scenario very well.

I think that's probably accurate. I think there were two culprits for this. One is that in tactical combat, positioning is such a key element. There's a lot to be gained in war from getting terrain on your side or duping your foe into movements that expose a flank or spread out units so someone on the end can get hit hard before the rest of the army can get over to help. You want your archers somewhere advantageous where they can soften units for your heavy hitters to get a solid advantage when they go toe to toe with them. That sort of thing. It seems like starting the battle within striking distance of each other removes a lot of the reason for wargaming it out, wouldn't it?

The other main element that blew the setup was minis and map limitations. I have a fair collection of minis, but that said once you winnow it down to just feywild and undead stuff--it just ain't a war's worth. For a real battle you'd need just gobs of minis on each side with tons of duplicates to make military units out of. I mean you're looking at hundreds of guys on each side probably? Banks of archers, cavalry flankers, light infantry, heavy infantry--or the equivalents in units of 10-50 a unit maybe? Good luck me ever having that kind of minis collection.

Time was an issue too. We have about three hours to game since it's a store venue (unlike our leisurely 6-7 hour home games.) That said, in our regular narrative based games we're able to blaze through three or four big battles per...

I tend to favour the Heroes of Battle Book approach to only focusing on the PC's. The battle itself is really just background scenery.

To be honest these are the sort of roll-play books I loathe. I'll get it since my accursed OCD requires I collect all the official 4e books printed as well as Goodman.

However rather than waste time and resource on this book why not pull out a ToEE or Falcons Trilogy, a Night in the Underdark adventure/campaign.

I know I'll be able to mine it for info and probably make use of the maps/monsters (if any new) but I am disappointed.

I've been playing with Mass Effect as a SWSE cross-over. I'm hoping not to re-invent the wheel. As such, I'm hoping someone can streamline my efforts by sharing with me their own work . . . or links to sites that have answers to my questions. Thanks.

1. Vessels. Are there any stats for the Normandy? The Mako?

2. Species. Regarding the species of Mass Effect, has someone assessed a species equivalent in the Star Wars universe, or otherwise devised stats?

3. Biotics. The way I see them - they are a "cheat" for non-Force users to use the Force. I'm trying to assess how to develop them accordingly. (Also, I am debating on whether Asari are force sensitive, or just immune to the negative effects of Biotics.)

4. Weapons and Armor. I know that Mass Effect designed them differently. I'm debating on whether to just skip over this facet, or otherwise dig in and develop, per the SWSE system, a reasonably balanced translation. Anyone beat me to it?

I considered doing this with Alternity, but alas so many projects yet so little time.

You may eant to post on some boards with heavier saga traffic if you need a hand.

terraleon wrote:

Bonus For 3rd Edition: If Halls is commissioned for 3rd Edition play, this project will also include a 48-page Zobeck Gazetteer ...

Bonus For 4th Edition: If commissioned for 4th Edition play, this project will also include a 48-page Delver's and Flyer's Gazetteer...

Why do the different editions get different Gazetteers?

From the sound of it most of the content of the Gazes will be fluff (so edition agnostic), and where there is crunch presumably it can be designed for either edition.

Zobeck has been published using 3e rules, using 4e (GSL) would mean that Wolfgang could no longer produce Zobeck that way. Since the majority of the product and the fans for it are 3e that would be counterproductive. Or so I believe.

C'mon 4e fans!

If your on this board I know your a fan of quality adventures and with the sudden surge in 4e patrons your membership might just be the one that turns this project towards that 4e light.

Join now whilst your vote counts and get some great insight into the design process for the latest incarnation of the worlds 1st RPG. 8-)

This Open Design is on fire! Commission was target for End of February but it's looking more like End of January. If you are on the fence, jump in! For as little as $25 you can be a part of D&D history: Wolfgang is one of only major players out there still writing OGL material for us 3.5 fans. Vote with your dollars and get a phenomenal adventure with some insights into the esoteric craft of development and design (the other D&D).

What DitheringFool said!! LOL

This is scooting ahead and 3e or 4e I'm looking forward to this. If your looking for a high quality 3e adventure then join now and beat us 4e guys to the finishing post, and we're making a bit of a comeback so don't delay.

How does this work if ya go in and it goes 4e or 3e and you have no interest in that system?

You get a refund.

Arcmagik wrote:

There are still other boards at Paizo? HOLY CRAP! *surprised* Oh well, I don't venture off these 4e boards anyways.

LOL

I meant at other sites altogether.

See if you wandered around you could find out more about goodies like the open design project.

Another appeal to Paizo's 4e fans to sign up for this whilst the chance is there. We're all on these boards because we love quality adventures and this is a chance to see one crafted and to have a quality 4e adventure ready to play. Rather than having to convert the excellent Pathfinder products, but also a great learning exercise in how to construct 4e encounters and apply that to our Pathfinder games.

There are still other boards at Paizo? HOLY CRAP! *surprised* Oh well, I don't venture off these 4e boards anyways.

LOL

I meant at other sites altogether.

See if you wandered around you could find out more about goodies like the open design project.

I'm looking forward to the Heroes Handbook: Eladrin.

Goodman Games

Hey, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

It reminded me to cross post to some other boards so definitely not a waste of time 8-).

Now to just rob my dad's savings. Hmmm.

LOL

This back and fore argument over who's edition is better is pathetic.

Just enjoy your respective games.

Your not going to convince one another and this hostility is getting a little childish.

My opinion - best mechanics 4E, best flavour/fluff 2E. I seem to like the even numbers.

Does my opinion somehow invalidate yours? No, so why bicker?

Even given my current financial dire straits I'd consider this for a subscription.

As one of the children wanting candy, all I can say is - This is why we can't have nice things. :(

Sadly true. Except as the parent (DM) isn't it our job to ultimately shape our children's (Players) behaviour, not the teachers (Wotc/Paizo)?

OK off the weird analogy. I fail to understand this adversarial almost one upmanship approach between many DM's and their players.

I discuss with my group the rules and resources available and/or appropriate to each game before playing.

They know if I say this isn't available or this is banned it's ultimately done with the goal of making the game/story more enjoyable for them.

Essentially they want the candy, but understand it might ruin their dinner

Burrito Al Pastor wrote:

What would stop Wizards from terminating the Dungeons and Dragons product line? The same thing that would stop Paizo from terminating the Pathfinder product line: a profit.

Please note that the point of my post was canceling a line with no prior warning, not canceling a non profitable line. Players of DDM were given a roadmap of future products and events almost a year into the future only days prior to the cancellation of the line.

Sometimes the decision happens that way. Ultimately someone up the chain of command makes a decision that the blearily unaware soldiers have no ideas coming.

There is a good business reason for this, market value. Any time a company cancels a line or makes a cut (or surprisingly sometimes announcing an expansion) market price tends to drop. You keep these things quiet to avoid a spiral or rampant speculation.

Similar thing just happened where I work, a business partner just ended a long profitable and amicable relationship. The team handling the account is literally packing it up the next day.

A lot of the Golarion fluff seems to lend itself extremely well to a 4e conversion. We already have gnomes as having a fey origin in 4e and the diabolic empire of Cheliax seems like a perfect place for tiefling characters to originate from. Besides, both the 4e assumed setting and Golarion give Asmodeus godhood.

Other than that, there are obviously some 4eisms which won't translate as well into Golarion. You'll have to come up with a way to differentiate elves and eladrin within Golarion. Also, if you want to go by 4e core you'll probably have to find a place for dragonborn.

Other than that, I see nothing in Golarion being inherently opposed to the assumptions of 4e. Just go for it.

See as DM I have no problem saying it's not allowed, and my mature somewhat cool players are easy with that. They know that I only restrict options to present them with a better story.

That said whilst I haven't given dragonborn any great thought yet is there any reason Eladrin can't simply remain Elves? A little retcon goes a long way, just remove Eladrin and Dragonborn and insert Gnome and 1/2 orc once PHBII is out if your comfortable using the new races.

It's funny I just spent the past few months converting Birthright to 4E and now after rereading my Pathfinder stuff have decided Golarion 4E it is lol.

Paizo just couldn't help themselves, they had to come up with a setting that I actually love more than my birthright.

Now if we can just get a semi-decent GSL we can hopefully cajole Paizo into doing a 4E Pathfinder players guide.