Any chance of a new campaign world sometime?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I know that Paizo probably has too much on their plate already, but I wonder if there is a chance of ever seeing another campaign world for PF? Golarion is a nice 'kitchen sink' setting, so it would be nice to see something more unique and focused... sort of like when TSR released Dark Sun. I'd love to see a campaign world with a strong meta plot like Midnight or Gemini.

A guy can dream, right?

Grand Lodge

Sounds like a great idea for 3PPs.


paizo is very much dedicated to Golarion atm. James Jacobs has stated before that they won't be doing anything new anytime soon since its so much work to put together a good campaign setting.

as for Golarion, i love it. the kitchen sink setting is nice since it makes the countries unique and gives them a different feel. the background and style of the areas may be kitchen sink, but the storylines there arent. i also love the fact that you dont have to change campaign settings to get a different feel in a game. and i think its more realistic that the world would be more diverse (and how do you really make something new when everythings been done before) and a kitchen sink really hasnt? and i got real tired of games like we've seen before where everything is "medieval europe with magic."


i will say i do look forward to the post apoc book that adamant games is putting out soon (hopefully).

and neon genesis stuff (by idr which company) looks sweet too, kinda like PF exalted.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
William Edmunds wrote:

I know that Paizo probably has too much on their plate already, but I wonder if there is a chance of ever seeing another campaign world for PF? Golarion is a nice 'kitchen sink' setting, so it would be nice to see something more unique and focused... sort of like when TSR released Dark Sun. I'd love to see a campaign world with a strong meta plot like Midnight or Gemini.

A guy can dream, right?

There's one basic problem with releasing more than one campaign world. The secondary world tends to die fairly quickly.

There is nothing stopping anyone who abides by the rules that Paizo lays out from creating their own setting that's "Pathfinder-compatible".

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Besides - the entire point of having Golarion as it is is that it is effectively multiple campaigns - all you need to do is set your campaign in the part of the world that matches what you like and you're set.

This will be even more true as they expand the world further, especially onto other continents or planets.


What does "kitchen sink" setting means?


leo1925 wrote:
What does "kitchen sink" setting means?

This means a setting where you can find everything from one cultural setting or another. It's "everything plus the kitchen sink" to use an expression. You'll find Vikings, Arabian, Oriental, and other cultures represented in the societies of Golarion.

Scarab Sages

There's always the upcoming Midgard setting by Open Design

Go to Midgard.

They've already released a Nortlands book that looks interesting.

Contributor

Golarion does what most other campaign and fantasy settings fail to do: present a realistic world with a great diversity of cultures. Rather than a single monolythic culture (like "medieval europe with magic") you have a plethora spanning the whole globe. "Kitchen sink" sounds perjorative to me. In fact, Golarion's genius is that it is a fully realized world, with many opportunities to expand to more specialized settings.

Years ago my own campaign world was set up to mimic the first century Mediterranean of the Roman Empire, with that culture butting up against analogues of ancient Parthia and post-Roman (early medieval) Britain. More distant was a Shogunate-era Japan analogue, and the southern part of the Africa analogue was actually Aztec-flavored. I also messed around with developing a fantasy world set in the equivalent of the colonial Americas circa 1500-1700AD, with distant mother countries, settlements of varying levels of development (and different relations with the native populations) and a vast unknown frontier. Golarion has (or will have) all of the above. And with the other planets in its system and the endless planes and demiplanes, there is no real reason to develop a totally new campaign setting. Over the years Paizo will be able to create anything that catches their fancy within the context of the universe they have established.


I tend to agree with the OP that Golarion is a little too generic. I think from a publisher perspective you have to make a world like that in order to fit all aspects of the system, but in doing so you have very little that makes it feel significantly different from other game worlds. Golarion does have the Aroden incident and all the mini-catastrophes (Abendego, Worldwound, etc.) that followed, but all those feel isolated and relatively unimportant if a PC is not directly involved in those happenings. It's the, "yeah I heard about them demons breaking into Sarkoris (I think that's right), but they got it contained, so what's it got to do with me," attitude that marginalizes major things like the worldwound

I say it is too generic in that it could be a post-apocalyptic setting, or a gothic horror setting, or a Arthurian setting, or a medieval Japanese setting (coming soon to a game store near you), or just about anything else, but in doing so it has nothing to set it apart that makes Golarion unique. What's the hook to draw people to Golarion?

To give some other examples of settings with a good hook (the OP gave a few good ones: Dark Sun, Gemini and Midnight) I think the Diamond Throne (Arcana Unearthed/Evolved) was unique and kinda cool just by taking away the human-centric view every game setting has. In that one Giants, and later dragons, were at the top, not humans. From a human perspective living in a human area nothing was greatly different, but as you get out into the world I found it more enjoyable. Scarred Lands did a great job of keeping everything that a traditional D&D game has, but threw it into a post-apocalyptic world where the gods and titans just finished a major world shaping war. The world had a unique feel, a hook, to draw you in.

Obviously despite the criticisms I have for Golarion I still support it, just look at my subscriber tags. Most of the material I transplant to a different world. I ran one AP in Golarion, and whereas my players enjoyed it, they were grateful to move on to another world when it was done. That could be my own prejudices coming through, but...

Honestly I think Golarion could be great if there was one big hook that would tie everything together, so that Brevoy felt like it was in the same world as Katapesh. If I could think of something specific I would probably be a better writer, so don't ask me what that hook should be.


Enkili wrote:

I tend to agree with the OP that Golarion is a little too generic. I think from a publisher perspective you have to make a world like that in order to fit all aspects of the system, but in doing so you have very little that makes it feel significantly different from other game worlds. Golarion does have the Aroden incident and all the mini-catastrophes (Abendego, Worldwound, etc.) that followed, but all those feel isolated and relatively unimportant if a PC is not directly involved in those happenings. It's the, "yeah I heard about them demons breaking into Sarkoris (I think that's right), but they got it contained, so what's it got to do with me," attitude that marginalizes major things like the worldwound

I say it is too generic in that it could be a post-apocalyptic setting, or a gothic horror setting, or a Arthurian setting, or a medieval Japanese setting (coming soon to a game store near you), or just about anything else, but in doing so it has nothing to set it apart that makes Golarion unique. What's the hook to draw people to Golarion?...

I Have the same felling about golarion generic setting.

Another thing that bothers me is that anti magic country in golarion, there is no rule saying how it works so if sort of fell poorly thought sometimes...


Mike Shel wrote:
Golarion does what most other campaign and fantasy settings fail to do: present a realistic world with a great diversity of cultures. Rather than a single monolythic culture (like "medieval europe with magic") you have a plethora spanning the whole globe. "Kitchen sink" sounds perjorative to me. In fact, Golarion's genius is that it is a fully realized world, with many opportunities to expand to more specialized settings.

+1


William Edmunds wrote:
I know that Paizo probably has too much on their plate already, but I wonder if there is a chance of ever seeing another campaign world for PF? Golarion is a nice 'kitchen sink' setting, so it would be nice to see something more unique and focused...

In a lot of ways, Golarion is more unique than many of those focussed settings.

And Paizo won't do two settings. They want to concentrate all of their (limited) workforce to this one.

It really is quite versatile, though: You can run all sorts of campaigns in it. All another setting, a focussed one, will give us is the ability to run one sort of campaign, in addition to the 40 we already have. It will either get 1/40 of the resources the other campaign setting so each type of campaign gets its equal share, or it gets more and the 40 existing types of campaign suffer.

Anyway, we're all running or mouths (well, fingers) here, as it's unlikely they'll be doing another setting (if you won't count the upcoming Asia flavoured book).

I think third party publishers are your bet. Especially because since they usually don't need to make as much profit to consider stuff successful, they can do more specialised, focused stuff. They can do a setting where intelligent rat people are the dominant race, there is a civil war going on between godless arcanists and pious psionicists, and the seasons have a variable length. (Anyone who wants to do that setting, be my guest).


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I would rather see Paizo focus on what they are inspired by ie Golarion. But I do think that other settings are a wonderful playground for 3PPs. In fact, there are already a handful out there that are high-quality.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I remain hopeful that Paizo will someday release a single standalone campaign setting book for one of the other planets in the solar system (the leading contender being the Darksun-esque planet whose name escapes me). If enough people ask for it, there's always a chance they'll do it (though I wouldn't expect it too soon).

Plus, from my armchair vantage point of the rpg industry and gobs of publishing knowledge I possess from having read things that were published, I think the conventional wisdom on campaign setting books should be challenged. I wouldn't want to see Paizo attempt to support two full settings at once, but I do think there is room for a done in one campaign setting - a single, stand alone core book with no supplements to speak of.

I don't necessarily think splintering the audience is a real risk - I doubt I'm alone in purchasing far more Paizo products than I actually use. I doubt that anyone who is currently purchasing Paizo campaign setting products would drop them for a new setting, particularly if it was a one off. I would think you'd get 3 groups of people - those who like the core setting and won't buy the new setting, those who like the core setting and will buy the new setting on top of that (and won't abandon the existing setting), and those who don't buy Paizo products/campaign settings, but may be lured in by a chance to get in on the ground floor.

The ground floor effect is something that I think is most often ignored when people discuss launching a new campaign setting. I find that if I've missed the launch of an rpg that becomes popular (e.g., Vampire back in the 90s), I will wait for the next obvious piling on point to start purchasing products (e.g., Werewolf). The new ground floor helps me embrace a new company and, over time, usually results in me branching out into other, ongoing and existing product lines.

However, all that said and even assuming it's mostly true, it doesn't seem to me that a new campaign setting is needed quite yet. The basic set will provide a new ground floor soon enough and there are still some important rule books using up hardcover slots.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Do gazetteers and adventures set on continents other than Avistan and northern Garund count as new campaign settings?

Liberty's Edge

For the purposes of this discussion, probably not.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I'd say kinda for gazetteers. In fact, they actually seems like a better vehicle than even the standalone product I mentioned - that way you could test the waters. It also seems like a great way to provide a useful slice of a larger campaign setting by having the gazetteer be for a particular city/other bite sized location. I do like that idea, but I would still like to see it go a little further afield - I really dig the solar system you guys have set up and a gazetteer about another planet (or a region on a planet) would be terrific.

I want to say that adventures don't really cut it, but, on the other hand, the Darkmoon Vale adventures did a good job establishing that corner of the world when the rest of the product line was focused on Varisia. Still, that seems more like the exception than the rule.

Liberty's Edge

I guess it really would depend on how different the other parts of the world actually are. Assuming they're radically different, sure - that could feel like an entirely different setting.

Contributor

Sebastian wrote:
I remain hopeful that Paizo will someday release a single standalone campaign setting book for one of the other planets in the solar system (the leading contender being the Darksun-esque planet whose name escapes me).

Akiton!

I'm rooting for Castrovel myself. :)


James Jacobs wrote:
Do gazetteers and adventures set on continents other than Avistan and northern Garund count as new campaign settings?

and the answer is both and yes.

but all it does is wet the whistle and it leaves people wanting more and more and more.

as to the op, maybe

Scarab Sages

I think you would be hard pressed not to find a suitable location for the type of adventure / campaign you want in the entire Golarion+ setting. Maybe some more exotic stylized settings like Darksun or Violet Dawn would be a hard fit...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would definitely prefer Paizo to detail Golarion - including other continents / planets / wierd pocket dimensions et al - as exhaustively as possible before countenancing other settings.

Back in the day I tried to support TSR / Wizards by buying up most of their campaign worlds; Greyhawk, Al-Qadim, Spelljammer, Planescape, whatever... but I always felt that if there was ONE that they concentrated on, I'd get to know it a lot more, and it would become more and more a living, breathing world that I and my players knew and cared about.

I really think another setting would be the ideal starting point for a 3PP - surely Midgard is well placed to take up the mantle here? I'll be buying into that because - again - it will be something that the publisher expends all their efforts on realising. Someone mentioned Scarred Lands, and that was another great one that benefited from not being thrown together by Wizards, and the (unnamed?) world of the Necromancer modules another. To my mind, unless you have a vast development department, each publisher - Paizo or whoever - should really concentrate their resources on one setting.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Enkili wrote:
...if a PC is not directly involved in those happenings. It's the, "yeah I heard about them demons breaking into Sarkoris (I think that's right), but they got it contained, so what's it got to do with me," attitude that marginalizes major things like the worldwound

You forget that the containment of the worldwound is only as strong as the plot. ^_~

The best part about Golarion and these 'mini-catastrophes' is that for a campaign set in the Mwangi Expanse, places like The Worldwound, the Runelord Ruins in Varisia, endless Galtian revolutions, infighting in the River Kingdoms, and even the politics of Absolom are just "that thing going on that doesn't pertain to me". Things like the Eye of Abendengo, the Gorilla King, and Shackles Pirates, however, are a *HUGE* parts of that campaign.
On the flip side, for a Paladin campaign set in the trenches of Mendev, the Eye is "that never ending hurricane thing somewhere south", meanwhile the Worldwound is threatening to burst from its containment and consume the planet.

The point of Golarion (and, indeed Pathfinder in general) is OPTIONS. Their goal is to provide hooks... not for players, but GMs, who take what's been published, and then decide what would make a good story and run with it. You can run an entire campaign in Hermea, without your PCs ever leaving the island. Or you could travel the breadth of the universe to distant planets, uncovering unspeakable horrors. Its your choice, and its your player's story.

Dark Archive

Liz Courts wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
I remain hopeful that Paizo will someday release a single standalone campaign setting book for one of the other planets in the solar system (the leading contender being the Darksun-esque planet whose name escapes me).

Akiton!

I'm rooting for Castrovel myself. :)

Both! ;)


gbonehead wrote:

Besides - the entire point of having Golarion as it is is that it is effectively multiple campaigns - all you need to do is set your campaign in the part of the world that matches what you like and you're set.

+1

Contributor

Sebastian wrote:
I remain hopeful that Paizo will someday release a single standalone campaign setting book for one of the other planets in the solar system (the leading contender being the Darksun-esque planet whose name escapes me). If enough people ask for it, there's always a chance they'll do it (though I wouldn't expect it too soon)

While I of course can't speak to the potential existence of any already-written books that haven't yet been officially solicited or otherwise announced in an official capacity, please allow me to insert a conspiratorial wink here.

Spoiler:

~_0

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Great. That's no help at all. Why'd you even come here to post if you didn't have anything to say.

Ohhhhhhhhh...wait...I get it...

Spoiler:

HOODY F~+@ING HOO TRUE BELIEVERS!

The Exchange

Akiton and Castrovel both deserve their own campaign setting books (or World Guides!) Doesn't Castrovel have psionics? I think Vudra fans would also buy the Castrovel books if they end up having psionics in them.

Dark Archive

Andrew Betts wrote:
Sounds like a great idea for 3PPs.

+1.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How about a publication that's set in Golarion but earlier in the timeline? I personally think that would be sorta cool.

My 2 CP.

Dark Archive

ronaldsf wrote:

How about a publication that's set in Golarion but earlier in the timeline? I personally think that would be sorta cool.

My 2 CP.

IIRC, James Jacobs answered that question, which was basically no.


Jeremiziah wrote:
I guess it really would depend on how different the other parts of the world actually are. Assuming they're radically different, sure - that could feel like an entirely different setting.

Maybe...but not too different. If there was a continent on Golarion that was like Midnight and another continent that was like Dragonmech and another continent that was like modern-day Earth, that would strike me as silly (IMO).

For instance, I thought the continent full of dragons in Eberron was pushing it, although I liked the psionic continent and the continent full of savage giants.


gbonehead wrote:
Besides - the entire point of having Golarion as it is is that it is effectively multiple campaigns - all you need to do is set your campaign in the part of the world that matches what you like and you're set.

Exactly so. In fact, it's probably the only reason why I continue to buy Paizo's APs and modules - they're so easy to fit into my campaign world because of Paizo's chosen campaign setting design methodology.

(Well, other than the wretched Jade Regent, which I'm passing on.)

Overly-focused campaign worlds bore me.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Arnwyn wrote:
(Well, other than the wretched Jade Regent, which I'm passing on.)

Woah! You can see the future?

Tell me, when will del Toro's adaptation of "At the Mountains of Madness" finally make it out to theaters? :-P

Wait... that implies that I agree that Jade Regent is gonna be wretched! You must be deluded by an intrusive parallel world future! BEWARE!

More seriously... until it's out, try not to make unfounded claims about whether or not an AP or anything is "wretched." Once it's out and if you've looked at it... blast away.

Unless, of course, your primary intent is to distress and annoy me (since I've been trying to get Jade Regent off the ground for 3 years or so now... ever since Pathfinder #1...), in which case carry on. You're off to a great start! :-)


Or ya know James it could be he finds the theme wretched and totally uninteresting. Even reading it won't do much good if he has zero interest in it at all.

Liberty's Edge

You can please all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can never please all the people all the time.

Contributor

No no, Jacobs, you're misreading Arnwyn's post. "Wretched" is like "wicked" and "sick." All the kids are saying it these days, as in:

"Dude, did you hear that band that opened for Cattle Decapitation last night? They had four drummers and no other instruments. Totally wretched!"

Also, he plans to pass on his copies to his friends, so they can enjoy them as well.

Thanks, A-dawg! We love you too, bro!


I like Golarion but it already suffers from what I call "The Glorantha Syndrome". Much like Glorantha, if Golarion is something you've followed since the beginning, it's not much trouble. But if you're just coming to Golarion for the first time it's tremedously overwhelming. Information is spread out over so much material that even finding where a certain piece of information lies can be a challenge. Not to mention the monstrous buy-in cost to obtain the information can be a big turn off to a lot of people.

SJ


Sir Jolt wrote:
I like Golarion but it already suffers from what I call "The Glorantha Syndrome". Much like Glorantha, if Golarion is something you've followed since the beginning, it's not much trouble. But if you're just coming to Golarion for the first time it's tremedously overwhelming. Information is spread out over so much material that even finding where a certain piece of information lies can be a challenge. Not to mention the monstrous buy-in cost to obtain the information can be a big turn off to a lot of people.

Actually I think the Inner Sea World Guide covers most of the basic information on the campaign setting for a relatively low cost (if you just get the PDF). Yes you can branch out and get more specific information on various regions, but none of that information is really necessary if you aren't using that regional setting. You don't have to buy everything. Although just one AP with the associated setting book, that usually comes out, would run around $140, but that's months of entertainment. Still cheaper than cable TV.

It's really not much different from the Pathfinder RPG. You can just pick up the Corebook and Bestiary, but if you want to branch out into other areas there's the Advanced Player's Guide and the "Ultimate" books.

Also, much of the Campaign setting stuff is freely available at Pathfinder Wiki. Just Google it, or someone else can post the link.

On the other hand it might just be that my gaming budget is unreasonably high....maybe I'm crazy. Is there some kind of support group?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Hmm, not sure jumping out of Golarion is actually needed. Perhaps a portal or something would do the trick.

Oh wait, is that the same thing?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I for one would buy a book on the other worlds in Golarion's solar system. Even if it was "only" 64-96 pages.

Contributor

Zuxius wrote:
Hmm, not sure jumping out of Golarion is actually needed. Perhaps a portal or something would do the trick.

Maybe if we fire the orange portal trigger when Castrovel is closest, and the blue portal on the wall over there...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Take the blue portal and stay in Golarion. Take the Red portal and see just how far down the rabbit hole goes.


James Jacobs wrote:

Woah! You can see the future?

More seriously... until it's out, try not to make unfounded claims about whether or not an AP or anything is "wretched." Once it's out and if you've looked at it... blast away.

Unless, of course, your primary intent is to distress and annoy me (since I've been trying to get Jade Regent off the ground for 3 years or so now... ever since Pathfinder #1...), in which case carry on. You're off to a great start! :-)

Rather, I think you're just going to have to accept that I have absolutely zero interest in Jade Regent and the type of campaign it is (which has been very well articulated - by you, in fact), that it does not meet my gaming needs at all, and that I am negatively predisposed to it.

Sorry, but that's the way things go sometimes - not all APs are for all people [though up to this point you were batting 100% from me!]. And for me, the campaign design behind Jade Regent truly is 'wretched' (I have more adjectives if you want - they aren't better, though). For the topic of Jade Regent, I suggest my posts are not the best ones to respond to (in fact, they need no response at all). I do feel badly, however, that Jade Regent of all things is the one you have spent an apparently large amount of time and effort to get off the ground. Blech!

But, hey! Look at the bright side - I might actually buy the last 3 books once the campaign finally gets to a more focused/single area.

[And the answer to when "At the Mountains of Madness" will finally make it out to theaters: Never. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.]

Jon Brazer Enterprises

*Whistles to himself*

*checks wrist, no watch on wrist*

*looks at cell phone*

It's still May. Not time yet for the dragon to speak.

*the dragon goes back to its computer to do some more writing*

Dark Archive

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

*Whistles to himself*

*checks wrist, no watch on wrist*

*looks at cell phone*

It's still May. Not time yet for the dragon to speak.

*the dragon goes back to its computer to do some more writing*

Okay, I'll bite (not too hard):

Stop teasing! What's your new campaign world!?!


joela wrote:

Okay, I'll bite (not too hard):

Stop teasing! What's your new campaign world!?!

I'll second that request.

Liberty's Edge

If it's what I *think* it is, then I know ... but I'm not telling! :)

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