Hobgoblin Commander

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I have the same feeling. And it's not because "Man, there's just so many less options in Starfinder!" My group pretty much only played out of the core book and APG for all of Pathfinder, the Starfinder Core book gives you at least the options of those 2 books. At least it LOOKS like it does.

That's the problem in my view. Starfinder is a game that LOOKS like it has a lot of choice at first glance, but once you look at it closer and take into account the small rules tweaks you realize there is actually very little choice. The options of things you could do with the Feats or Actions just aren't there, because so many of them conflict now. Let's say you used to be able to trigger 3 Feat abilities in one attack round, most likely all three of those abilities are now an exclusive attack. You can only ever do one of them. And if you can only ever do one of these 3 options at a time, the 2 that are less commonly useful will probably never be used. And if they won't be used, why take them? They are really just window dressing.

That's why it feels like the 'plate is too small'. Because even if you have a big plate, you're only ever going to use a small part of it.


CactusUnicorn wrote:
In Starfinder weapon damage does scale with character level. A level 20 character has a higher BAB so he will hit more, plus his Weapon Specialization damage is much higher.

The WEAPON damage scales with level, not the character's. The core problem being discussed, the difficulty that can be experienced getting the weapon you want at that level, is directly caused by the damage primarily being generated by the WEAPON not the CHARACTER.


EC Gamer Guy wrote:

I'm not sure why the resale value of equipment matters. If your GM is following WBL the amount your equipment is worth remains about the same regardless of whether you picked it off a corpse or sold a ton of stuff to buy it.

And yes, 10% is unrealistic but then again. Giant. Talking. Lizards!!

I have already pointed out above how even if you accept WBL and the mechanics without question, the 10% sellback damages player investment in the setting and frustrates them far more than prior systems if they haven't gotten the item they wanted. Neither of these are conducive to a healthy playerbase no matter how mechanically sound the game happens to be.


Obbu wrote:

Since weapons sell for 10% of their price, instead of 50% of their price, this opens up a lot more room for GMs to hand out better weapons, more often, but restricts people from always being able to buy the exact piece of gear they desire, all the time.

I don't see this as a bad thing, personally: it leaves room for loot to provide interesting avenues of play that you might not otherwise entertain, without breaking the economy every time the GM gives you something cool. With that said, if you're playing a custom game, it can be worth having some level of communication with GM/other players as to loot you might be specifically interested in.

It is a very bad thing is your GM runs pure random loot (which I honestly do in all other games) or purely by module like Society games, because you may not get what you want and now it takes a lot longer before you can trade that in for what you do want.


thistledown wrote:
I've found the Pilot to be far more important than the gunner. Positioning and facing are everything in ship combat.

I'm not saying the Pilot is unimportant. Just that it is incredibly boring since I'm not allowed to attempt the maneuvers that would actually be something of a challenge.


Peet wrote:

Does your ship only have one weapon?

If not, anyone can switch roles at the start of the turn to fire their own weapon instead of doing another role. There is no real effect if any of the roles are not taken. Even the pilot can take control of a gun and use the "glide" action to control the ship.

No, we have multiple weapons. However, if I'm using the Glide action that means no Evasive Maneuvers to potentially get missed (it has saved us from a hit so far) but more importantly, being far more likely to not have a good firing or receiving arc. Both ships we have fought have been faster than ours, so that's a serious consideration.

Kudaku wrote:

It sounds odd that you found space combat boring, is your crew taking advantage of all the available tactical options? Scanning to figure out the enemy ship's layout, maneuvering to claim your own firing lines while denying the enemy theirs etc? We could really use some more information here - your/their ship design, what classes are in your party and what roles they're filling etc.

Granted we've only had a few practice fights to get a feel for the system but my group has been having a blast so far, and the more I get into the system the more I see possibilities and opportunities to do fun stuff. :)

All I do in a fight is maneuver and evade. The Science officer generally sets up the scans, although we switched her to a 2nd gunner partway through last fight because using the light weapon to strip shields before hitting with the big one was wasting the targeted crit. The Engineer and Captain also are usually using one of their options each turn. So yes, I'd think we are taking advantage of the available tactical options.

pauljathome wrote:

I'm starting to find starship combat tedious although not boring (played and run more than 10 combats at this point).

The first few rounds seem fun as one basically figures out which tactics are optimal for this fight. Then one just rolls dice a lot.

The pilot makes the initiative roll so that is always exciting. And a long way from guaranteed.

The gunners miss as often as they hit.

But yeah, until the enemy starts hitting hard the science officer and engineer rolls are pretty easy.

In one battle, the pilot often did harder maneuvers (fly by). Almost certainly because he was bored because it was a REALLY silly gamble (we basically totally outclassed the other ship and were guaranteed to win eventually. The fly by let us win quicker at the risk of us losing. A really bad gamble).

One thing that keeps combat somewhat interesting is the fact that one round of bad rolls can change things a lot. A lucky crit can change things substantially.

Right. This is closer to my main point. The Gunner clearly has a lot of interesting things going on, the rest... not so much. They help, but there isn't nearly the ever present chance of failure. Or if you do fail, you often just lose a +2 to someone else's action. Not a critical problem, unlike the lost damage of a miss causing you to fall behind the damage/repair curve.

My primary concern has been making sure I as a player position our ship in the most advantageous spot. The skill rolls are not a factor in doing this, since I only fail on a 1. I would need to be in a ship 5 tiers higher than me to be near even odds. I can totally understand your Pilot intentionally taking a riskier maneuver, if only to make things more interesting for them. I'd do it too if I were allowed. But since that maneuver requires a certain number of ranks in Piloting, you can not attempt it for quite a few levels. All the interesting maneuvers and actions are like that.


Kagerage wrote:
there has always been a sell back cost, the diff being you use to be able to make gear cheaper than you could buy it.,

Crafted gear is more durable than bought gear, so while it doesn't save you money it's still worth it to craft. And you no longer have to take a separate skill to do it, so there's no reason not to.

And the point I make in my post is that the old buyback cost was significantly higher, 5 times in most games. Your turnaround from "Things you don't want" to "Thing you want" was much faster, so the Gray and Black Market discussion never had a reason to happen beyond character concept.


Our group has gotten 2 starship combats in now, and the last one was boooooring. The first one probably would have been even more so (we had some serious advantages making the fight easy) but we didn't notice because we ere caught up learning the rules.

This is clearly in part because the Gunner is the only one with any appreciable impact or difficulty in their role and roll. The rest of us really exist to buff the gunner or debuff the enemy. At our low levels there are usually only 2 options, one clearly useful for buffing or debuffing each. Both with TNs so low that those of us actually intended to be starship crew have little to no difficulty accomplishing the tasks. (I have spent both combats rolling to see if I got a 1.) The only person who has had a failure rate other than the Gunner is our Engineer. A Soldier who expected to only be the backup, but since the Technomancer can't be on 2 consoles at once they ended up being the primary. Even they still statistically should be doing confident betting odds. (Their dice disagree apparently.)

This could easily be changed if those of us who are very good at our jobs could attempt the higher difficulty more varied actions. But we can't, because we aren't high enough level. We aren't tall enough to ride that ride. My question is... why was this design decision made? Why limit our choices artificially? If I've got the skill to pull it off, why can't I? And even if I don't, why can't I attempt a desperate gambit?


pauljathome wrote:
Metaphysician wrote:
The book outright says why you can only typically get 10%: because your a random dude providing merchandise of dubious provenance.

Note, I agree with posters above that this is all moot. The rules are what they are for game balance and totally ignore reality. And I'm fine with that.

That said, that justification is totally specious. If that were true, PCs should be able to buy stuff off random dudes providing merchandise of dubious provenance for something close to 10%. Or, at the least, go to the pawn shops and buy used items for something <50%. And, with appropriate engineering checks, be fairly sure that the item was actually functional.

realistically, ebay and craigslist should exist. Or darknet.

Yes. We had a bit of a fight about that last weekend when we finally finished the first module and had a break to sell and shop after getting back to Absalom. We all were a couple hundred short on getting the last thing we wanted, but in all cases were also over 50% of the base price. And every one of us players almost simultaneously sat up and said "Hold on... if there's a bunch of people like us out there selling used random gear at 10% of MSRP, why can't I find a used item for 50% of MSRP?"

The book sell back price is flat unbelievable with no way to also purchase the used goods. It breaks our suspension of disbelief and ruined our ability to stay engrossed in the game world for us. As one of the above posters said, "It's video game logic". And every multiplayer videogame quickly develops a player market that sells at slightly above the vendor price. The people willing to invest time in it will get better returns for their cash, or better buys, and the people who don't care can quickly go through the vendors at regular prices. There is no equivalent to that in the game as written. (Though as a house game we were able to add it easily to address our concerns.)


Yeah, I noticed that too. This was a problem I had playing my Commando in Star Wars Galaxies way back when. They were one of the few ammo based classes, at least 3x as expensive to run as the other combat classes. We noticed it quickly with a Bombard soldier in the group, though in play it hasn't mattered much since we've been able to loot enough grenades.

I would say 5 per box is probably an ok adjustment. 10 per may actually make them too cheap. But they definitely need something.


I think it definitely can be Overcharged. I might be missremembering, but I think the Diaspora Sniper Rifle has lower base damage than the Shirren Eyes, so they probably expected this. The Mechanic would be most effective assisting the shooter though I think. Though if no other shooter is on the team, then it may be worth the Feat costs.


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I recently got a large amount of PDFs thanks to the Humble Bundle. I am wondering if there is a way to batch download files from it like other PDFs retailers I've dealt with. I haven't figured out a way if there is, so far it seems to be prepping and then sending each file individually. I have to click on each title and then wait a couple seconds (or more in the case of the main books).

In particular the Season 4 of PFS adventures, which is all I want that I haven't downloaded at this point, is going to be a pain to get 1 by 1. I figured there'd be a way to get the whole season even if there isn't a way to make your own ZIP batch.


The cliffhanger should never have been there.

1st: It's a terrible disservice to the players who picked up and played this module as soon as it came out. Now their characters are scene-locked until the next module (about a month for some) rather than being able to move on to 3rd party or homebrew content.

Not an issue for our group, we just finished it this weekend and should have the PDF at least of part 2 by next session.

2nd: It leaves no room to bring in new characters to replace the fallen from the last big fights. Our group did relatively well, only 1 fatality. That's too be expected with this tough of a boss. I've seen multiple groups only make it out with 1 survivor, and to be honest we were pretty close to that point. 2 of our survivors were in low HP and could easily have been taken out the next round.

Now this understaffed group is going to be thrown immediately into a combat using an unfamiliar ship?


I would assume Sky Jockey still adds the 10 feet to Jump Jets in either direction, the same as it adds to any other piece of equipment that gives you flight.

Sky Jockey does not suddenly make the technology you are using better. A hovercar with speed 60 still has the same max speed as before technically. A Sky Jokey knows how to get more out of that equipment than a normal user. Think of it as a normal user not getting the physical max performance, and a Sky Jokey gets closer to that theoretical limit.

It could be that they simply are more efficient in their movements, so they have less wasted time and energy getting from point to point. Or it could be that they are more comfortable keeping that gear running right on the redline while a normal user would back off.


Depends on what Spells you select. Some of them are still incredibly useful even at max level.

Overcharge weapon can only be used once per day, but it's a big boost to damage for that one shot, even at level 20. Wisp Ally is the ultimate Boss Fight ability IMO.


My read is that it would be either case #3 or 4. I'm leaning towards 3, but I could be pretty easily convinced to allow 4 as a GM.


MagicA wrote:

So then, it seems really the only people who benefit from deadly aim are Operatives using Trick Attack, but even then without having a Full BAB, taking a -2 is a bit of a risk

As it stands, it seems that if deadly aim gave more damage in return it would be more worth it.

Personally I would make it a bonus equal to half Character Level. Basically let Small Arms and Operative Weapon users take a -2 to equal the damage bonus larger weapons get from Specialization. It also helps Unwieldy weapons stay viable, though I haven't done the math on that.


Jürgen Hubert wrote:
I wonder if there are going to be any changes to Stamina Points. I mean, undead technically don't have any stamina to speak of...

"The power of the stars sustains me!"


kjrohl wrote:

Since needler ammo is darts and acid dart ammo is darts, can acid dart acid be loaded in needler needles? If so, how much damage would they do?

Also, the base needler damage is 1d4 but the description also says it is a favorite of medics, so are there special darts that deliver medicines that don't do any damage?

Finally, pg 225 says serums can be imbibed or trickled down the throat and pg 190 under darts it says darts can be used to deliver healing serums...I assume injection works. Right?

The injection is what's doing the 1d4 damage as I understand it.


One of our group does some home rebinding, mostly due to trying to keep up old and hard to find 1st edition D&D or Unseen BattleTech books. If we've tried our own repairs, will that keep us out of the replacement option? All 4 of our group's books have failed, but we've only trialed a repair on his so far.


If you want to do something scenario or homebrew specific not covered by one of the other special maneuvers, just assign the specific target some cover rating representing how difficult it would be to hit it.