Herald of the Vile's page

Cloudkill doesn't affect each creature individually, as mentioned before, a Swarm is a single creature. It may be made up of many creatures but you are fighting it not the 1,000 component pieces. Cloudkill, in the example provided, would whittle down the Con of the swarm until at con 0 the swarm dies. This is why attributes are included in the pre statted swarms.

It says it kills creatures whose HD is lower than 3...

Assume a Crab Swarm, which is a 7 HD creature... But individually the crabs can't be more than 3 HD...

The wording on Cloudkill specifies creatures that are in it, a swarm is made up of individual creatures... So how would this be ruled?

By RAW, no. A Cloudkill cannot auto kill a 7 HD anything. The Swarm lives by virtue of being a 7 HD creature in of itself. Now Game Masters are free to adjust the rules as they see fit or even flavor the effects of the Cloudkill on the swarm as killing hundreds of the crabs so that the caster knows his spell is having an effect. If you are the GM then feel free to take the suggestions everyone has submitted under advisement.

Caderyn wrote:

The relevant rules text for healing of nonlethal damage from the CRB definition of non lethal damage, as regeneration is an Extraordinary ability that cures hitpoint damage it removes an equal amount of non lethal damage

"Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage."

I get how healing nonlethal damage works in general, but considering regeneration specifically states it does not heal "Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration" then would that not include nonlethal damage? Or is nonlethal damage still considered hit point damage?

nonlethal damage is still damage, it's just tracked differently because it is supposed to be easier to knock someone out than it is to kill them. Of course, who feather punches their foes.

All that caveat in Regeneratioj means is that the ability can't be used to get rid of other status effects, durational spells that effect the target, ability damage/drain, or negative levels.

Hope that helps.

-Jon

Hey all,
I am looking to add more players to my weekly thurday evening table top game. My group play it is a primarily centered around roleplay and npc/pc interactions with the world generating the plot-points rather than me the GM leading you along by the nose. We generally play between the hours of 6:30pm-Midnight, if anyone is interested I can supply you with further information but the other players have requested that i interview all would be players.

-Jon
Email: jonmit89@gmail.com

So long as he doesn't care about controlling them and being ripped apart by his own mob.

As for multiplying multipliers, given that there is precident in other aspects of the game the question of 'x2+x2=x3' is supported. Just like how I found out that I can't have a spell storing gun multiply my Force Palm damage by the same x4 crit multipler of the gun.

Animating undead is pretty cut and dry except for that small issue of calculating equivalent HD as per Conduction Animations. Currently employing it for one of my recurring 'villians' who unsurprisingly for a guy with 40 hp, never fights the group head on.

-Herald of the Vile

No but the Catch off guard feat eliminates the -4 penalty all together.

Correct anyone with catch off guard is essentially 'Improvised Weapon Proficiency' and would negate the normal penalty, though it still doesn't enable you to change the object from a 'tool' into a 'weapon' it simply makes it so that you've used unorthodoxed items before and have since specialized in there use. It's masterwork tool benefit doesn't become a masterwork weapon.

Poison as it works doesn't function very well in a game where a character levels as things like Arsenic which is a commonly feared poison in the real world ends up being a sore stomach and iratable bowls in Pathfinder & 3.5. Overall it's never been covered very well in either versions of the game though Pathfinder has simplified the process a bit and made it an 'out of the box' ability that anyone can potentially use.

I've made my suggestions as I've done in my past games and asaide for poisoning a Bungbear Antipaladin army, no one uses them not even our drow. My NPC alchemist loves being poisoned, he's an Apothecary and hands out 'Remove Disease' vials of his own blood. When he did shoot for making poison I have him shoot for dc 10+modifier toxin and accept that sometimes my moonshine gets a little watery.

If you're serious about using poisons, I would say sit down and take a look at the chart with your dm and convince him to work with you on it, worse comes to worse he'll make you pay a paltry ammount when measured over the course of your adventuring career.

When you fight creatures so many CR's below you the numbers start not to matter, and you don't really get XP. In short those archers don't warrant XP for that dragon or anyone past 10th level most likely.

Those arrows also have to confirm so we have 100 archers. 5 will crit. 1 will confirm. Even that will be eaten up by the dragon's CR. The archers lose in Pathfinder. I will also add the popular media does not translate to Pathfinder well so even if the archers had a real chance at winning in the movie it would not matter. Now using the volley rules from Complete Battle(?) would have been a better option, but PF does not have that option. Archers are also the best damage dealers in PF.

I understand what you are trying to do though, but I don't think aid another is the right mechanic for it. It does not fir fluff-wise or mechanics wise to me. Maybe two an archer can fire a "distracting" arrow, but the chances of success are better if he just full attacks unless you have minions supporting a real threat, and the minions are unlikely to hit anyway.

Arrow Volley, Complete Warrior Supplement, is the one that 'works' mechanically. You give up your composite quailty to make an area of effect attack that ignores cover and concealment (that's not from a canapy/roof) and the creatures must make a dc 15 reflex save to dodge. Meanwhile your Archer Squad Leader makes one attack roll for the group. That's alright but really.... 1 arrrow filling a 5ft square and a static dc. At least with the useage and limitations on the ranged aid, I could at least hit the same square.

I bring it up because I am in a more 'human' setting where you won't see anyone full attack unless they're a monk or utiziling two-weapon fighting. Aid Another becomes a useful tactic.

-Herald of the Vile

Agreed, its was pay for the original cost of materials, set your target dc, and if you make it great if you fail buy more supplies. There's no definitive 'When creating poisons the dc of the crafting check is equal to the fortitude dc to overcome its effects, you must also spend 'x' gold pieces on raw materials in order to make your poison. So what it really comes down to is a matter of GM preference. Also note that there are no con poisons that function in rounds; hence mentioning it as an option for why you would use poison.

Poison, Disease, etc are all GM weapons; the average party members will be devastated by these but the plethora of monsters in an unisolated campaign will laugh at your futile attempts to weaken them. Just like casting spells with a will save is also laughable.

-Herald of the Vile

The way I envision aid another is that you are not really trying to hit the target, but by hitting an AC of 10 you appear threatening enough to make it look legit. If you are going to shoot arrows at someone you might as well go for a real hit. Melee attacks have feints which can represent an aid another, and therefore work in the game since you are not really attack. Ranged attacks don't to my knowledge have any feints. If you shoot it is for real.

I did leave off the part about actually firing my ammunition didn't I? Going back to the Dragon example: 100 cr 1/2 archers verses an Elder Wyrm Red. Now playing the numbers game, the Adult Red Dragon can expect to be hit by 5 arrows routinely, and will reduce them to cinders with a few passes of his breath weapon. Red Wyrm just defeated a CR equivalent of 40-50 without an serious harm, after all unconfirmable crits can't pen its DR.

If the's 100 archers had banded together and fought effectively, they could have have potentially landed 1-11 arrows per round and potentially crit the dragon, potentially surviving the seige or driving the creature off. Experience split between all 100 of them and they're still level 1 warriors.

Which scenario would you rather be in?

-Jon

I find the 5% additional cost for +1 DC to be hugely broken. Also, It's much easier to ramp up a skill check than a saving throw...

Poison is crud in fantasy games, it always will be just like diseases are laughable. The 5% is just an example. There's no neat and pretty cannon way of determining the cost per point of dc. My simple rule concerning it is "don't bother with it, you can't sell it and unless you've got a 1d3 con poison with a frequency measured in rounds or an Alchemist poisoning others is ineffective and sad.

Now 5% may seem broken given how expensive most poisons are it's actually quite a bit unless you're in a game where you have money to blow on anything that catches your fancy.

My take on it:

In melee you can block incoming attacks, and attack the opponent so it dodging several weapons, and that makes sense in real life. That represents the bonus to AC, and the bonus to attack rolls.

In the game if you are in melee you are lucky to not get shot by an arrow. That is what the penalties on range attacks represent for shooting into melee, and also the soft cover to AC, so being able to help the archer would be hard to do.

I think you can help an archer's AC if you stand beside him, but there is no realistic way to be able to help him hit the target with the idea in mind that the archer is taking wind direction and speed, not shooting his friends, and other variables into place. by trying to help you might make things worse.

Understandable but given that if it were to be opened to ranged attacks, you would have the archers taking Range penalties atop the -4 penalty for shooting into melee, which would compensate for that 'difficulty' in imagining an aid. Really it comes down to a difference in training and tactics where one force might find it effective to set up Seige Lines an avoidable pattern of arrows onto a battlefield while another decides that firing upon the man with the feathered helm is more effective. Obviously the game at core similates this by making an attack roll and hoping for the 20 but that same result can be achieved by Aiding Another and still make your trained Archer units feel effective.

The argument against it is that it's difficult to imagine, well take the classical example from the Hobbit's final chapters where they are trying to bring down the dragon by placing an arrow in the weak spot of it's armor. In my mind that's an perfect example of an aid another, even with the limitations to adjacent archers assuming all my comrades succeed I could end up with a +18atk allowing me to potentially hit that dragon and on the event of a 20, I just might be able to confirm the critical hit. Thereby completing this scene effectively.

-Herald of the Vile

Ok, how would I determine the cost of a raw material then if I am making a custom poison?

For example, if I perhaps wanted to make a poison with a dc 25 fort than knocks you out or puts you to sleep?
I wouldn't know where to start for a base material cost nor know how this affects the price with the high dc. No reference material is a pain ><

I may have the specific names wrong, but if you're looking for the a toxin whose effect is unconciousness the game has 3 if I am not mistaken. Drow Poison (Injury), Burnt Othur Fumes (Inhalent) and Blue Whinnis (Ingested). I would simply pick which ever one has your preferred mode of conveyance and then look at the gp to buy the 'standard' market version of the poison. Then determine the cost to craft and then increase it's cost by 5% for the additional supplies.

My example may not be correct but:

Drow Poison, Injury dc 12, Cure 1 save, Initial Unconciousness, Secondary Unconciosness 1d3 hours. Costs 90gp to buy at the market. I decide to make my own and see if I can make it a dc 25 dose as well. The materials normally cost me 45gp plus since i'm trying to make a strong batch I bought 162gp (base plus 9gp/+1dc). At the end of the four hours it takes me to make my poison, I make my check and voila. I go and knock out the Hulking Barmaid.

A lot of effort but I didn't have to resort to a nonlethal Flamestrike to do it.

-Jon

This is not a rules question but a discussion about the 'Aid Another' in combat mechanic. I was looking it over and wasn't very surprised to find that in cannon it only works for adjacent allies engaged in melee but I wonder why it shouldn't work for ranged attacks as well. Given that it is an attack roll verses an AC 10 target, why can't my 3x3 block of archers rain arrows down upon a target and use their coordinated efforts to place at least 1 arrow in the target?

Now I understand that the mechanic states it doesn't work this way but I was wondering why the game as built devalues ranged combat to the point where it's uneffective en masse unless you utilize the Arrow Volley, deal from 3.5's Complete Warrior.

Was looking at this, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison#TOC-How-does-poiso n-work

and it states these are example poisons and a poison I make has a dc equal to the fortitude save I want it to have. However I do not see anywhere on how to determine the cost. I even checked the source links at the bottom of the page and still doesn't have any info.
Can anyone help me with this?

Unfortunately there is no dc to gp calculation that I was able to determine, as I rule it in my game the poisons materials are wasted if you don't make the dc you set for yourself. Which makes it an attempt to create a stronger dose of poison. This doesn't change the base cost of the poison, it instead reflects that it was your characters alchemical prowess that led to the enhanced poison.

There is also the 'accidental' approach where your character left the toxin to stew to long and the dc is sporatic calling for the character to roll and take the result as the dc.

As for pricing that's a difficult thing without a comparable guideline to look at to draw a conclusion. Similar prices per increase of modifier would be 100gp (in case of the comp bow) or 10,000 (+1 dc on a magic item). I would say that since poisons aren't a practical thing overall that having a player pay an increased price for a decent poison is rather trivial, especially after the Master Alchemist feat.

Though if you want a decent answer: each face on a d20 is equal to 5%, increasing or decreasing a dc is altering the chances of success by 5%, therefore given that you're trying to increase the dc of a poison by 'x' ammount the player should spend 5% more in raw materials for every point the base dc increases.

-Jon

I don't think maximized damage is a bad option. However, I find it unlikely that someone would be able to actually drink some acidic fluid completely. Most likely the character would gag, stop drinking and spit it out. That being the cae, a regular damage roll would be in order. If the character was trying to commit suicide and forced it down, then perhaps the maximum damage or instant death would come into play, depending on how vile the acid was.

I can understand that logic but RAW would say that once an item is consumed it is gone forever hence believing it to be a maximized damage roll but as this is a rather off the wall use for acid I can see in your characterization allowing for a reflex save upon ingestion to similate the 'spitting out' reaction.

And treating it as a Coup de Grace is what I had ended up treating it when it occured a few games ago. The player had succeeded on a grapple and with the flask of acid he had on hand, forced it down the villains throat. Very evil, but what else can you expect from an assassin?

-Herald of the Vile

@Herald

That's faulty logic. A MW Katana is still a MW Katana, even if it's wielded by someone who is not proficient with it. So the person wilding it would have a +1 (MW) and a -4 (NonProf) for an overall -3 to their melee attack. Same as someone picking up a +4 Katana would have an effective 0 using the weapon if they were non-proficient.

The answer is still 'no' to the OP, but for a different reason. A MW item is not a MW weapon. The price of a MW on a weapon is +300gp, on an item it's usually +50 or +100gp.

Now, you could theoretically have your MW rolling pin (+2 baking) also be a MW club (+1 to hit), but you'd have to pay both MW costs.

Unfortunately, your solution isn't in the rules. I also believe you misunderstood what I said in my original response. Essentially: A masterwork tool is not a masterwork weapon, therefore when you attack with it you don't get a +1 on attacks to mitigate the -4 penalty for using an Improvised weapon. Until such a time as there is an errata saying otherwise, the two are not the same.

-Herald

This is less of a rules question and more of a 'what if' scenario but in the rules being hit with acid is covered, the damage is in the item/effects statistics, and immersion in acid is covered. What I would like to hear thoughts on is what the general consent on what should happen when an individual drinks acid.

As I see it, there are three schools of thought:

1) The acid attack is maximized dealing full damage to the drinker. (Rather lame)

2) Consuming acid is the same as immersing yourself in it. (Ouch.)

3) The character has to make a fortitude save or die. (Dc 15 or dc 20?)

Thoughts?

Yes; weather like terrain penalties compound making it very difficult to your career Archers to set up effective seige lines in the midst of a hurricane which any archer worth his salt would tell you is just plain silly to have him do.
-Herald of the Vile

No, unfortunately the rules for improvised weapons state, as I recall, 'when using an item for any other purpose than for what it is designed, such as in combat, you take a -4 penalty on attacks with the item.' Meaning, that in order for your 'masterwork tool' to be equivalent to a Masterwork Rolling Pin (Club), it would have to be a special acception to the rule. Summary: masterwork tools are not masterwork weapons or items, the benefits they gain for their masterwork 'archetype' are detailed in their descriptions.
-Herald of the Vile.

Strickly speaking, Salabrian, you are looking for an exotic weapon that has t
he agile quality; I suggest you ask your gm about adding your example to the game, most gms won't argue with the expenditure of a feat for a nifty trick. But by the letter of the rules as they exist currently, all such effects detailed as magic items are magic items and will always be magic items, otherwise they would cost less and professions would matter in every game.
-Herald of the Vile