He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named's page

Factotum from 3.5 had Int to Attack, it was made by the boys who created Pathfinder and according to some of them could be ported over without much change (Change Piety for Channel)

Good to see another Spoony fan.

NobodysHome wrote:

So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.

So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?

Because if they use the drow noble from the bestiary they get everything for free... Stats, sla's, SR all for nothing besides race choice. Not even level adjustment.

It is the whole "why should I pay more, when I can get it for less" mentality.

That is probably the best way to say it.

While I am still liking the idea of the doppelganger Investigator//Slayer I do admit that is it a little hard to account for the CR 3 adjust.

So I was thinking of a Killoren Paladin//Swashbuckler

The reason for this is it allows Smite damage from Paladin and Killoren's Aspect of Destroyer as well as level to damage for any piercing one handed or light item.
Slashing Grace would open this up to any slashing one handed or light weapon too.

So with all threes focus on Cha, the Divine Grace ability boosting the all good saves with a high Cha, and of course the free Improved Critical at level 5, might seem like a good idea right?

A Fey Paladin of the Forest style character.
While all the listed above help with combat, Aspect of Nature gives them boosts to Knowledge Nature equal to her Hit Dice, and Aspect of the Hunter gains a +2 racial bonus to Perception and Stealth, as well as a +2 to Initiative. However, you need to pick which aspect you will be using each day. So if its a day you don't except much fighting, Nature or Hunter is pretty good fall backs, but with the combo of Level Twice to damage via Paladin/Swash you dont feel as gimped on damage output.

So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.

So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?

Because being 6 feats behind everyone else in a combat class that really does require feats to be useful. Things like Power Attack, Cleave, Furious Focus, etc things we tend to look over as Duh choices for the feats.

When your fellow Melee Party mates are Charging and PAing and are just using their feats properly they are straight up going to make any damage you deal seem minimal at best.

Your party is likely going to be getting annoyed when it takes you twice as long to kill an opponent as it is them. Your Spell-Like Abilities at level 11 are no where near as useful as a Wizard with the same spells. I mean Deeper Darkness is cool and all, and a Wizard with a wand has invested less and has the same effect.

Lets be fair and see what each trades off. Drow with the Nobility Feat line is the same CR as the Party but comes in with 6 less feats. Where the Drow Noble starts as 1 level higher then the party and the same feat progression.

What player wouldn't rather take a 1 level gimp rather in 11 levels of being gimped by no feats.

Of course this is not counting a Fighter Drow Noble who can do this by 6th level, but even they will be gimped, just not nearly as hard.

Mimicry (Ex)

A doppelganger is proficient in all weapons, armor, and shields. In addition, a doppelganger can use any spell trigger or spell completion item as if the spells were on its spell list. Its caster level is equal to its racial Hit Dice.

Detect Thoughts as an at-will is also pretty nice.

Again with the buy off CR I keep seeing its something like every three levels you reduce the CR by 1 till it reaches Half the original CR so at Level 3 and 6 I would drop two CR for a eventual CR 1/Slayer 19//Investigator 20

If we used LA Buy off levels those appear at 9, 15, 18 and would be both classes at level 20 by level 20.

I do agree and want the Assassination Talent when Slayer reaches level 10.

Also the rest of the Party is taking at least a CR 1 Template so I think if we do the every three levels, after level 6 it should even out the Party CR to 1 above our class levels in general.

Also I think a CR is dropped if I begin with NPC Wealth By level.

Now I wanted to make a Investigator Slayer Gestalt character who is basically the jack of all trades style of character. Slayer brings the cunning and killing power, while Investigator brings the skill and a bit of magic like effects.

Now since this is gestalt I am allowed some fun with the CR adjustments.
I am picking up a character who is a Doppelganger CR3/Slayer 2//Investigator 5 for a ECL of 5
I choose Slayer for the short side due to the slightly later run on Talents.

Also we are going to buy off the CR later, much like the old LA buy off, but I was told this is more semi-official but what are the levels of CR buy off?

Also the Stat Adjust is +2 to all stats (Took the Stat block and used a 15 point buy to figure it out.)

So how to best make the jack of all trades, which is why I picked up the Doppelganger due to his Mimicry abilities.

The Feral Gargun, a offshoot of the Goliath, it has 2 RHD and +2 LA.
It has a Natural Armor and Claw Attack which is handy, a +4 Str/Con +2 Dex makes them kinda scary and their -2 Int/Cha is a hit, but not much of one.

In Pathfinder, would it retain the same LA? Or just use its RHD as its level?

I mean I dont know what it is, is it a bandolier of bolts?

That is an interesting race, I think the frenzy aspect is a nice touch. But I am not sure I like the idea of them being kind of stupid. Though I do enjoy the fluff of that race.

Also d20 Wookie has a similar build as that.

Why would you be bitter about Chewbacca?
Also a Bandolier of Quarrels I am not familiar with it

Those stats are monster stats. A PC race version of the sasquatch would not have those stats, because those are stats after ability adjustments and such.

Given their stat array, their racial boost would probably be to Str/Con, and a penalty to Int.

Build a custom race for them, it shouldn't be too hard.

+2 Str/Con, -2 Int. Gains Woodland Stride and +2 Natural Armor as bonuses, Pungency as a downside. Darkvision, Low-Light Vision, and Scent.

Specialized ability scores (1 RP), +2 Natural Armor (4 RP), Darkvision (2 RP), Low-Light Vision (1 RP), Scent (4 RP). That stuff's easy. Come sout to a 12 RP, reasonable.

Woodland Stride and Pungency are hard to quantify. I'd tack Woodland Stride at 4 RP and Pungency at -1 RP, for a total of 15 RP, or thereabouts.

Maybe slightly more buff than the average race, but reasonable.

That is a very well rounded race build, I may use it as a base for the character with a little alteration.

I will point out even monsters must follow the ability adjustment progression of PCs so there is likely only a +1 adjustment from the 3 RHD and it has no gear save for the club and rock as weapons. So those are its base stats, given that it is a 8 foot tall giant ape most of its state as reasonable, the Str is just jacked really high, but compared to humans thats actually reasonable. A RL Chimp is dozens of times stronger then your average human. Even the strongest human on earth RL is far weaker then the average chimp or gorilla.

Could you just play a Vanara? Then you'd have none of your questions above to worry about.

Sasquatch does not have a tail nor do they have a thin coat of fur. I mean look at where they lived.

Having 6 HD at level 5 seems odd to me. But doable.

And yeah I kinda agree with ya, because a +12 is insanely high on Str a +4 on both Dex and Con too. If I rolled or bought anything up to 14 on any of the physical stats would make me very powerful.

A 18 in Str would be a 30... at Start.

I will talk to her in the morning. But what about his Racial Hit Dice?

Sasquatch
But that is perhaps a little too much. Though I do like the Woodland Stride ability, the ability score boosts are far to much to consider for a PC.

From what I can see its CR is 2, but it possesses 3 Racial Hit Dice (d8 which is not bad) So it could not start before level 4 with class levels right?

I was considering doing a conversion of the Goliath from 3.5 but refluff and retool it. Change its mountain abilities for the woodland stride ability, and make it playable at level one. Reducing the Str boost from +12 to +4 should be something.

My game I would play this in is at level 5, so I could in theory place this race as it is but that +12 Str seems like it might be too much. I mean I know 3 RHD in exchange for the insane str boost is fair but well what do you all think?

Well I do believe that was why Bardbarians were a thing before, they cover every base and are quite good. Skalds lose Reflex saves for some weird reason

Rage Powers Lesser Elemental Blood and Lesser Elemental Rage allows for electric weapon damage. The other forms of those powers grant many of the same things as the elemental bloodline, save the last power.

Hmm the Bloodrager does show some promise. The elemental bloodline power is what you used right?

So the race is Half-Giant
It is a Gestalt Build
Warpriest // Barbarian
Forgepriest and the Titan Mauler

Here is the ability scores we are given to use (All of the players get these scores)
Starting gold is 10,500 GP

What should I do for feats, items, ect.
Two Traits
I can pick up to 2 Drawbacks to gain a further 2 traits.

Any help would be good.

Sacred Fist 1/Monk X with Guided Amulet of Mighty Fist actually is a very focused Wis character. Wis to AC twice (along with a +2 bonus up to a max of +10 by level 20) Wis to Attack and Damage, Wis to Ki Pool, etc.

NOTE: I know the AC Twice is still under discussion but I am saying if you follow that logic it still works.

PDT?

I just mean it does not say that you must make the choose, just that you must after hitting with an attack. It does basically make sure you only deal average or higher, which is kinda cool.

But the argument could be made that of course it says When you hit, otherwise there is no possible chance to roll the damage roll. That is just showing it happens after a successful hit.

But I mean it does not add a line like "Before rolling damage you may choose to deal average damage (rounded down)" or something of that type. It says you may choose, but it does not say when is my point.

Measured Response (Combat)

You believe that a conservative but consistent response guarantees success.

Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +1, worshiper of a good deity.
Benefit(s): When you hit an opponent with a melee or ranged weapon attack, you may choose to deal average damage (rounded down), as if you had rolled exactly the average amount on the damage die or dice. You add your damage bonuses and penalties as normal.

^ ^ ^
It does not say when you get to choose to deal average damage. So in practice couldn't you choose this after you roll damage? So if you roll well then cool, but roll crap you can choose to deal the average damage.

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wrote:

Lemmy wrote:

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wrote:

AndIMustMask wrote:

I thought sacred fists advantage was in that it can actually hit things with its fists without days of poring over book after book looking for boosts that arent either prohibitiveley expensive (aomf specifically), secretly trap options (bodywraps of mighty strikes), or specifically barred from monks (lookin at you brawling enchant--seriously, what the hell paizo).

Effective full bab + on-tap self buffs to further that is a huge swing in its favor vs the monk. That theyre not contractually obligated to stand still (flurry) on a class lauded for its mobility (fast movement, ki powers to boost that, abundant step, etc.) for this bonus is also a boon.

Tldr: i think SF is regarded as superior due to actually having a focus, and the means to accomplish it.

Amulet of Mighty Fists

A +1 AoMF is only 6,000 GP Is that all that expensive?

4000gp, actually... But it occupies a item slot (so no Amulet of Natural Armor :/) and can only be enhanced up to +5 (unlike a normal weapon's limit of +10).

And considering Monks can use FoB to basically TWF with a single weapon, there's no reason for the AoMF to cost twice as much as an weapon.

The AoMF is a decent deal for Druids and Animal Companions, but an awful deal for Monks... That's how poorly designed this it is.

Sorry i meant to say Agile or Guided Amulet of Mighty Fists (you know the ones that allow Dex or Wis to damage?)

Those are also 4000 gold, same as any other +1 equivalent quality.

Ah ok, doing my math wrong then. But adding Agile or Guided if allowed is a pretty nice option to reduce MAD as guided makes it Wis to Attack and Defense, Agile lets you do damage, Weapon Finesse would help with the hit.

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wrote:

AndIMustMask wrote:

I thought sacred fists advantage was in that it can actually hit things with its fists without days of poring over book after book looking for boosts that arent either prohibitiveley expensive (aomf specifically), secretly trap options (bodywraps of mighty strikes), or specifically barred from monks (lookin at you brawling enchant--seriously, what the hell paizo).

Effective full bab + on-tap self buffs to further that is a huge swing in its favor vs the monk. That theyre not contractually obligated to stand still (flurry) on a class lauded for its mobility (fast movement, ki powers to boost that, abundant step, etc.) for this bonus is also a boon.

Tldr: i think SF is regarded as superior due to actually having a focus, and the means to accomplish it.

Amulet of Mighty Fists

A +1 AoMF is only 6,000 GP Is that all that expensive?

4000gp, actually... But it occupies a item slot (so no Amulet of Natural Armor :/) and can only be enhanced up to +5 (unlike a normal weapon's limit of +10).

And considering Monks can use FoB to basically TWF with a single weapon, there's no reason for the AoMF to cost twice as much as an weapon.

The AoMF is a decent deal for Druids and Animal Companions, but an awful deal for Monks... That's how poorly designed this it is.

Sorry i meant to say Agile or Guided Amulet of Mighty Fists (you know the ones that allow Dex or Wis to damage?)

I thought sacred fists advantage was in that it can actually hit things with its fists without days of poring over book after book looking for boosts that arent either prohibitiveley expensive (aomf specifically), secretly trap options (bodywraps of mighty strikes), or specifically barred from monks (lookin at you brawling enchant--seriously, what the hell paizo).

Effective full bab + on-tap self buffs to further that is a huge swing in its favor vs the monk. That theyre not contractually obligated to stand still (flurry) on a class lauded for its mobility (fast movement, ki powers to boost that, abundant step, etc.) for this bonus is also a boon.

Tldr: i think SF is regarded as superior due to actually having a focus, and the means to accomplish it.

Amulet of Mighty Fists

Now the Centaur I see in ARG and the SRD does not mention any RHD in its description.

Centaur

Ok so I was considering playing a Centaur character
But I am not sure what class would be best for this character idea. Cavalier seemed like a good idea if they count as their own mount but I am not sure about that. Anyone got ideas?

I think it would be 9. Because Quad has Large as a Prereq so 7+2

Its rolled into the 2 RP for Quad

Ok, I wish we could get a Dev from Dreamscarred to post but that is unlikely. Thanks.

Does anyone one know the point system for the Half-Giant that was released by dreamscarred press? I would love to get a hold of that and find what the cost would be for Powerful Build would be really great to me. I was thinking 6-8 points.

Would it say if they where immune to Critical strikes? Because most things say if they are immune to stunning it implies a lot.

Also Ghoran BBEG is gonna be a pain in the backside to kill off. Just had the Bad Guy spawn a Seed and hide it away somewhere, have a thrall take the seed and plant it at a secret Garden etc.

The party comes to fight him, he is a level down but they fight him and have a good battle and then kill him and he come sback in like 2-12 days.

Kata Master Monk Archetype
Panache

At 1st level, a kata master gains the swashbuckler's panache class ability. At the start of each day, a kata master gains a number of panache points equal to her Charisma bonus (minimum 1). Her panache goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than his Charisma bonus (minimum 1). A kata master gains the swashbuckler's derring-do and opportune parry and riposte deeds. A kata master can use an unarmed strike or monk special weapon in place of a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon for granted swashbuckler class features and deeds.
This ability replaces stunning fist.

Now granted could mean granted from the Panache Class feature or granted from Swashbuckler period. Making all of the Swashbuckler deeds applicable to the unarmed strike.

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wrote:

I do believe so.

Well true, but if you focus on something that crits easily, such as a Rapier, Kukri, scimitar. Take Improved Critical and you will be criting more often then not. Yes this would be at level 11 but at that point your attacking 8 times at a +6/+6/+6/+6/+1/+1/+/+1 and criting at 15-20.

And that is not counting enchanted weapons.

Actually, by level 11 you should get the third iterative as I'm assuming you would go with a martial class rather than monk with this concept. Also, your secondary attacks don't get iteratives as I just read the multiweapon fighting feat (treats just like two-weapon fighting) so you'll need to take the improved and greater feats to get more attacks.

So at 11th, it would be.

+9/+9/+9/+9/+4/-1

At 6th, it would be
+4/+4/+4/+4/-1

True a full BAB class like Brawler. As I said. You get to treat your attacks like Two Weapon fighting, except you get a total of 3 off hands rather then the normal 1. (This is a special rule due to the special case). As far as Multiweapon, it replaces Two-Weapon Fighting, and it is mostly only useful to reduce the penalties of taking off hand attacks. -6/-10 is the normal for primary and off hand. Of course the Kasatha would be -6/-10/-10/-10 for all four attacks. With Multi weapon it becomes as listed above. Two weapon would make it -2/-2/-10/-10 for all four punches.

Well yes it is, I was looking for general ideas for it. And I want to see just how powerful I can make it. So I can scale it down a bit if it is too much.

Not saying that are not a very nice Race.

But what could we do with them to make them very very good.

I do believe so.

Well true, but if you focus on something that crits easily, such as a Rapier, Kukri, scimitar. Take Improved Critical and you will be criting more often then not. Yes this would be at level 11 but at that point your attacking 8 times at a +6/+6/+6/+6/+1/+1/+/+1 and criting at 15-20.

And that is not counting enchanted weapons.

Ghoran
They do count as Plants so
Traits: A plant creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

Low-light vision.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep effects, and stunning.
Proficient with its natural weapons only.
Not proficient with armor.
Plants breathe and eat, but do not sleep.

What classes, feats, gear, ect would be perfect for making the most optimized character?

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wrote:

I do have a question

What is better?
Flurry of Blows
Or a Four Armed attack (Attacking four times)

Also.. how would that work at 6/1 BAB?

I really have no idea how 4 armed attacks would work because that's usually a monster quality. Do they count as natural? I think the only way you can attack with each arm is if they're natural weapons and count as secondary attacks which is a -5 penalty without feats. If you wield weapons, then you only get your normal amount of attacks.

Kasatha have four arms, they are playable, they get one primary hand and 3 off hands. Also taking the Multiweapon Fighting feat reduces their penalties from -6/-10/-10/-10 which is what they would start at. Dropping it to -4/-4/-4/-4. Of course if allowed to use Light these reduce to -2/-2/-2/-2 with unarmed.

Now if you get all four attacks at level 1 (Which it implies you do) when you get to the BAB of 6/1 do you get four attacks using the 6 as the base number, and then another four with the 1 as the base number before penalties?

If this is the case should you ever even Flurry?

I do have a question
What is better?
Flurry of Blows
Or a Four Armed attack (Attacking four times)

Also.. how would that work at 6/1 BAB?

Ok so I wanted to make a Kasatha who is going to start as a enemy, and then later join the group as my PC (We Round Robin the DM job around the table so DMPCs only last as long as you are DM.)

Kasatha as the class
Monk and Sacred Fist on one side and I was thinking perhaps Swashbuckler on the other side. This gives good HD d10, full bab, good reflex, and sword options as well as nice tricks via deeds.

Monk gives AC and a Bonus feat (Pummeling Style)
Sacred fist gives AC and of course Spells.

Now if I added a template
Say the Simple Template: Advanced
Or the Half-Celestial Template

How could this work.
I imagined it as CR 1/Monk 1/Sacred Fist 3//Swashbuckler 5 (For a level five build)

Is this correct?

Also what weapon to focus on? Light One-Handed Spinal Sword does 1d6 x3 and can add a DC +1 to when its poisoned and its their native weapon.

Or should I do Scimitar or Bastard Sword (Four Arms after all)

Well I was curious if I used the Advanced Template on a creature such as a small time bad guy who is gonna become a reoccurring creature, as a former rival of one of the players.

If I give him advanced template on top of his rolls, and so forth is it work having him reappear later?

Ok lets say I played him as a PC. He is a level 5 character (Gestalt Game) how many levels of his should be occupied by the Template? What if his RP is higher then 20? Does that add another level?

Well here is the build idea

Kasatha (Four Armed Creature)
+2 to Dex and Wis
+2 Dodge Bonus

+4 to Con and Fort saves against fatigue, exhaustion, and other ill effects from running, forced marches, starvation, thirst, and hot or cold environments.

I have 2 18s.
So a 20 in Dex and 22 Wis(+2 from Headband) making their AC 10+2+5+12+2=31.

Would it be wise to take a Druid Class Dipping into Monk and Sacred Fist for the Wis to AC bonuses that will scale? I mean it loses 1 spell off level 8 and 2 spells off level 9 and you never get Wild Shape at will. But you do get it 8/per day which is still heck of a lot.

You also get Blessings, bonus feats, a handful of cleric casting.

Ok so the way me and my crew do this is Round Robin Campaign design. I will either select a module path or stand alone module and then after mine is done I will trade off with another and my DMPC becomes a regular PC so we all try to make our characters well balanced for falling back or leading the charge.

I am homebrewing a campaign currently though starting at level 5. Because its just me and two others we tend to Gestalt alot to add an increase in our power output (Again we normally do modules and some are ment to be with a few more people or expect the stock Mage, Cleric, Fighter, and Rogue party set up)

Well I was gonna run a Kasatha Monk 2(Kata Master of Many Styles)/Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 3//Barbarian (Serene Barbarian) 5

And focus solely on Unarmed Combat.

But my one friend wants to use Guns, advanced guns like revolvers and so forth, so I think he will be good with a ranged or semi ranged build but I want to be sure I am not overwhelming his character because of my four attacks (Four arms)

The other is likely going to play a Swashbuckler and something else. (She tends to favor healers or rogues).

My game starts with the two of them as bought bodyguards for a caravan of merchants crossing a very large desert where the Kasatha hold control over several of the Oasis' and must barter and trade with them to allow you to stop and rest there as well as buy supplies off them left by other travelers (A little different then the Kasatah from the book I know). Very honor bound and the guy leading the merchants is a bit of a mouthy jerk who might get them into trouble. This is also were the DMPC gets deployed, as a guide to the end of the desert at the very least.

But is this idea of an unarmed fighter throwing 4 attacks at level 5, too much? Now with 10500 I can buy a lot of gear, including a Agile (or Guided) Amulet of Mighty Fist. And a Corresponding Belt or Headband for most of my gold. But like I said I want him to be valid later on, but not too powerful right now.

Well the base I was going to use was Monk 2/ Sacred Fist x
Using only Unarmed strikes as his weapons. Given he has four hands, he is doing more attacks without flurry then he is with flurry.

Also given that TwF allows you that second attack on a standard attack not a full attack you could in theory at least make all four attacks each round, with the proper penalties of course. So four armed monk throwing out four punches each round is cool.

Yes the Example Kasatha is a monk and it does not state he gets multiple attacks in his combat section, though it does state up his unarmed attack it doesn't proclude multiple attacks. Remember, this is a Monk and the person writing it up likely wrote it as a monk class (Focused on Flurry). This could be a simple oversight, this does not prohibit multiarm fighting.

I've never read a description of the Multi-armed trait. Where do you find it? What book is it in? Can somebody link to it?

Advanced Race Guide has the trait for your Race Builder. Bestiary 4 has a few that has multiple arms.