Grey_Mage's page

I believe the function of the spell is exactly what is stated and no more.

Unfortunately, I have trouble reconciling this around the rules with weaknesses.

CRB p453: If you have a weakness to something that doesn't normally deal damage, such as water, you take damage equal to the weakness value when touched or affected by it.

Hitting a werewolf with a silver coin should trigger the weakness, not because of the spell flinging a silver coin, but the interaction of the creature and its weakness with the coin.

The spells listed effects aren't an issue. The B, S, or P damage is treated normally vs immunity/resistances, and the silver weakness is triggered secondarily as untyped damage.

If allowed by your GM, please remember the projectile must be an unattended object so an extra action will be needed to interact then release the object prior to the casting if you aren't using the default pebble or such.

Errata that makes Arcane Cascade work with Starlit Span would not be totally out of bounds. We're talking about +3 damage once per round at 20th level here.

There is no once-per-round damage limitation on Arcane Cascade. Any melee strike is imbued with the extra damage. Even at +1 damage (typed by your spell) can be a game changer when interacting with a creature's weaknesses.

I think this has far more potential than described. It may be the intent to add an element of risk in these situations rather than sniping a creature's weakness multiple times a round from afar after using one spell of the right type.

No idea what the official ruling will be, but my personal ruling is that you need one hand free and probably need to have Healer's Tools somewhere on your person.

Which seems relatively non-restrictive while still throwing at least a wink and a nod to realism.

I agree with the hand free interpretation but less so about the healers kit.

The closest approximation Battle Medicine has to real life is applying a tourniquet. Although even new "high speed low drag" tourniquets require more than 2 seconds to apply and at least one hand to tighten it. (2 hands would be a vast improvement on time but not an absolute requirement but it is impossible to accomplish while someone is swinging a sword no matter how many hands are used.) Some suspension of disbelief is required in either case.

As a former combat medic I can assure you I had tourniquets at the ready but the emphasis is to always use the patient's gear first. People expecting trouble would have strips of clothing on a belt to minimize these item access troubles. Therefore, I don't think a healers kit is necessary for a once a day combat patch job.

I do look forward to clarification in any case though.

A meridian belt might assist you in your efforts. You can wear 2 extra rings and can switch to a different active ring as a Swift action which wouldn't impact your summoning shenanigans.

Grey_Mage wrote:

Thank you for the question. I don't.

However the reason why may not be what you expect. I believe the above report is flawed. Blue states/areas are naturally urban and more densely populated. The high cost of living in these areas also necessitate the need for higher minimum wages which will skew the average household income in favor of a blue area despite radically increased pricing on all items. I would be interested in similar studies based on cost of living overall.

I left a blue state for a red state and enjoy a higher standard of living despite a reduction in wealth overall.

Conservatism by nature implies saving for a rainy day. Take care of yourself and family because if something really hits the fan the government will be to busy saving itself. This trend overall reduces activity of a dollar overall, because taxation is not on wealth its on financial activity. Stashing parts of my wealth on things that's are stored away reduces activity similar to stashing money in my mattress.
Urban centers will always generate more activity.

I do think on a national level conservatism is better if we could balance our budget. At nearly 20T in debt we can't save our way out of it, but we cant ignore it either. Soon the interest alone will dwarf any other discretional spending. Reducing expense and government 10% across the board would still take about 80 years to pay our debt without inflation or economy growth. Remember when Democrats said Republicans were draconian and wanted people to die? Well that's when they tried to "SLASH" less than .5% of the budget. The sides need to have a honest conversation without name calling or ideologues.

So how is it, then, that the government is going to *balance the budget* if they are talking about a reduction in the tax rates that produce the most income for the government while increasing the rates for the production of the least effective income re-distribution for the government?

How is it then, that the government is going...

Basic Economics

This.

Also, by placing more money into the hands of the people, they spend it on things which increases the tax base as activity is taxed, not things, allowing it to gain value more than it sitting idle in the Federal bank account.

Edit: Good night. Sleep. Work. Game. Sleep. Work. Gotta Pathfinder game tomorrow night so stay classy in my absence. Offline awhile so keeps please wait in line to dog pile =)

I can't see the party abandoning him until and unless there are electoral consequences. Which means not until the 2018 midterm elections at best. Polls I think won't be enough to change their minds.

I agree. Consider his base though... the polls didn't underestimate them, they ignored them or stifled them into silence or lying because arguing wasn't worth the inevitable response of being called racist, privileged, ignorant, or deplorable.

There is to much outrage among the left. No one cares because they hear leftist hatred every single day. It simply ceases to have any impact on the average Trump supporter. My point being if there ever is something legitimate no one will care because Democrats have been calling for his impeachment since the day he assumed office.

The readied action prevails. Provoking an AOO is a separate issue from the readied action.

Yes the trigger action may be a Swift action, but the readied action still occurs before it by RAW and the initiative is modified accordingly.

Swift actions may take very little time but you had someone waiting for exactly that triggering event.

Technically the magus was acting with evil intent and would have pinged as positive on the Detect Evil radar... So...

Serously, no. Evil is always selfish, either directly or indirectly. I seeno selfish actions here.

Were the Palidans behavior lawful? Less clear depending on the scenario but lethal damage in and of itself is not evil.

You don't learn it as a bonus. If you get access to it normally.... No worries.

_Ozy_ wrote:

KISS, mirror image copies your appearance. If your appearance is outlined with a faerie fire effect, mirror image copies that.

Much simpler than your long list of rather odd ad-hoc reasoning.

Faerie Fire doesn't affect your appearance. it surrounds it. The words are "surrounds" and "Outlines"(290)

if you want to disagree, please argue using the rules first

Fire shield does the same, but I guess that isn't compatible with MI either. Weird how this isn't mentioned anywhere how these spells are incompatible under 2HD logic.

It's interesting you bring up Occum's Razor.

Since you rezzed a 2 year thread simply to chide people as incorrect(years later), then rely on emotional logic while asking others not to do the same, keep saying the same things and labelling those who disagree with you as "fan boi".

Occums Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is the most plausible, that you are not here to have an honest discussion.

Mirror image is perfectly capable of copying the faerie fire because it is a burst effect. The subjects within the area are affected (that means the effect is on them and not the area itself, therefore MI has no trouble replicating in order to do its trick).

Light and figments:

Can I cast a figment on a lit light bulb to make it appear off? Yes. But the room is still illuminated so...

Can I use a figment to make a corner lamp in the same room to appear on? Yes. But the room isn't illuminated anymore or less than previously.

But won't the shadows change direction? Yes, but it is included in the magic to make it appear as it should.

Does this change the locations a rogue could hide in if shadows are different? No. That would be an effect.

What about looking under the couch/behind the TV, doesn't the change in shadow allow me to look for my remote control? You would think so, but no. This is an effect.

How do we deal with this obvious paradox? Fortunately the game has a solution, a will save to detect and understand these errors.

This is the basis for me saying it can replicate candlelight well enough to continue to confound the melee attacker as light isn't generated by the figment but it doesn't have to the the moving images don't stay still long enough to study to that degree (no will save)

As far as mirror images inhabiting the same space it makes sense because they are all super imposed on each other and moving through one another reacting to stimuli.

We know that spell casting is loud and obvious with smoke and energy moving, forget faerie fire, if mirror image can't handle replicating light without altering local conditions it would be easy to determine who the caster is as soon as a spell is cast.

Or we can allow spells to work as outlined.

C4M3R0N wrote:

2 Hit die wrote:

@ C4M3R0N - "I Feel"?

Don't use "Feel" to debate. Use "logic" "Reason"

Earlier you tried to say you could believe in a figments light and that is enough for it to read by. Too much "Feel"

Try referencing based on what is written in the book not "I feel". Its more rewarding to get to the truth that way.

"I feel" is good for feelings, for romance for socialising. Im not putting it down - it has its place - but not in forum debates as it leads to errant reasoning.

Hahaha errant reasoning... Says the person incorrectly quoting the rules.

Figment wrote:

A figment spell creates a false sensation...Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can...

I'd say it's clear that perceiving light is a false sensation.

And you seem to be stuck on the second bolded part. Nowhere here nor after here does it even say that light is one of the effects that they fail to produce like other illusions can. Not even in the part I didn't quote.
The first line of figments make it clear how it works. It creates a false sensation.
To answer your question of if you can read a book by a figment of a bonfire, well what spell was used to cast illusory figment bonfire? Cause that really is the deciding factor here.

How can you use the false sensation of light to read a book? that is nonsense. Your own reasoning - its in the subjects head because they believe it. How can they then read a real book that with that light?

It says on page 210 figments "CANNOT PRODUCE REAL EFFECTS"

Light is real!!!!!
OMG

they can't read in darkness but there is already an in game mechanic for this. Disbelief. In a world of magic when things are out of sort magic would be suspect but not automatic proof of illusions.

In reference to my earlier comment I was dismissing the merits of your arguments as casually as you treated others earlier in this thread.

We are on these threads as equals. Our opinions may help others rectify corner cases. Our arguments must carry their own weight without being dismissed as "incorrect" or juvenile or ignorant.

In retrospect I should have clarified my satire better. Although I believe your 2HD interpretation is incorrect I appreciate the disagreement as it furthered my understanding of my own viewpoint. I will attempt a lengthy post now I am able to access my desktop.

This is a discussion, not a debate. Say your peace and move on. It is perfectly acceptable to differ in opinion without making inferences about other people's abilities.

However, it is disingenuous to request citations while making emotional arguments yourself (MI needs more counters).

Dispel magic is always popular.

Summon monster 2+. (1d3 eagles can result in alot of attacks that only need to miss by 5 or less, since mage typically don't have high ac this isn't a major concern).

Closing your eyes and blind fighting
AOEs to ignore the images
Lots of attacks bringing actual use to less optimal builds with 2WF and Flurry of Misses...

FF isn't needed to counter MI. It's only designed to buy the caster some breathing room for a couple rounds.

Figments don't create light but they can create the sensation of perceiving something.

Even faerie fire can only cast light equal to a candle. (No distance/5' low light). All images are moving in the same 5' area, therefore you can't triangulate the true outlined target since there isn't enough data to go off of.

A figment can create a fiery torch. It won't create light.

The light radius for a torch is 15/30. The light radius for two torches occupying the same square is still 15/30. If one is a figment, the untrained eye shouldn't be able to tell them apart unless a figment can't replicate shadows or play with the light at hand basically rendering all illusionary magic worthless.

Fortunately. Magic works in Pathfinder without real world physics interactions because it's magic. And it works. As the spell describes.

CRB FAQ: Items as Spells: Does using a potion, scroll, staff, or wand count as "casting a spell" for purposes of feats and special abilities like Augment Summoning, Spell Focus, an evoker's ability to do extra damage with evocation spells, bloodline abilities, and so on?
No. Unless they specifically state otherwise, feats and abilities that modify spells you cast only affect actual spellcasting, not using magic items that emulate spellcasting or work like spellcasting.

Round 1 - bad guy casts mirror image and gets attacked by an archer who manages to rid 1 image (4 remaining) but does strike the mage with his second arrow.

Fighter declares he attacks the mage because he can see the arrow.

Sorry mirror images duplicates effects, including faerie fire on the images. There are no concerns with targeting as mirror image is handling that, not the FF.

There are no concerns with light level as all the "candles" are inside the same square and provide the same light area whether there is 1 candle or 8. The visual effect is the same.

Mirror image wins.

Celestial Servant: "Goddess, I bring good tidings."

Goddess: "What is it?"

CS: "The vanquishing of the arch-demon has begun. Even now, one of your faithful has invoked your name to purge his realm of the abyssal infection."

G: "Ah yes. I see it now. I have always prided myself in that Paladin. I remember the day he was brought before the clergy and tested. He is an innovator and always coming up with new strategies to combat the darkness."

CS: "Yes, about that..."

G: "I have given him my blessing so that he may be a beacon in these dark times. A shining light among the twilight draws believers into the fold like moths to a flame. As long as he brings my justice and light into the world all is forgiven. These things bring hope and inspiration to all that behold it."

CS: "He is attempting to channel your glory into magic to defeat the beast."

G: "Interesting, which of my divine spell gifts is he using? I don't feel anything..."

CS: "Magic Missile..."

G: "He must have been accessing unsanctioned knowledge, and drawing upon one of my brethren for support. I can't say I approve, but the ends may well justify the means. I wonder which one?"

CS: "Erhm, he is using a wand..."

G: "WHAT? What glory is there in such a battle? This means my divine authority can be foiled by a simple level one spell, assuming the spell can even penetrate the spell resistance of the dark beasts... The entire purpose is to overcome the resistances... The smite is to let them know there is no misshapen form, imagined or real, that can protect their evil hearts from my fury; there is no place darkness can hide that my light cannot find."

<grumbles>

"There is no challenge here. Nothing to bring out his inner reserves combining his faith and righteousness."

CS: "Truly, I doubt we will draw in converts with tales of such a victory. I think he intends to auto-hit the beast safely behind the cover provided by his more robust comrades. He has constantly argued to the collective clergy this is allowed because it is less formidable than his brethren using your chosen weapon; he is quite charismatic you know."

G: "Sigh... Please bring me some wine, I must relax and contemplate"

CS: "Some cheese as well?"

G: "No, I think I've had enough cheese for one day"

It's one attack. All missiles are launched simultaneously, so multiple smite evil damage via this route is ruled out IMHO.

why bother though? just throw a hand full of nails and get smite damage on all of them. Use a shotgun and put smite on each bird shot. Or simply rule it's one attack and you get smite once.

Unfortunately there isn't enough to go on because a lot of the flavoring on how magic happens is campaign specific.

Ideas...

1) wish. seems like easy way out.

2) Binding an outsider that works for the deity of magic that cuts off the mages
rivals by altering the individuals access to magic. Think like blackmailing a dirty cop to make fictitious tickets or something.

As a plot device the player could even get his power back, if he can contact,or bind the outsiders boss but without spellcasting... good luck.

3) Irreparable hand damage that prevents fine motor skills required for spell casting but not enough to interfere with swordplay.

You can charge them the price of a scroll and a donation. Since not many NPC clerics reach 5+ to be able to remove X status effect.

Just explain it is the church's copy and thier heroism and pocketbook make it available to them.

No one would spend 300+gp on a filthy commoner with a disease but the PCs are special.

Agreed, or play up the bring me your sick and lame angle.

There should be office hours when the clergy tends to the sick. The pcs should be in line with the commoners to give the impression that the full complement of the clergy magic must be spread out amongst the faithful rather than waiting for an adventurer to come along.

Donations are required, and it will be more if they aren't active parishoners of that faith in that town.

Since churches are the emergency room my vote means:

Triage diseases using heal skills in the morning. Admission for long term care during the day. Casting magic (non-emergent) only happens at night before rest.

The clergy needs to retain spell slots to spontaneously heal for those emergent cases, otherwise there will be riots when the clergy can't heal little Susie who fell down a well because they burned their divine magic healing a bunch of out of towners for a few gold.

Thank you for your response. I think you missed my point regarding your character. Its perfectly legal. That is separate from the bodyguard/PO interaction.

You are passionate in your belief and I appreciate that. However, your responses to others lead me to believe you will argue your point to a GM to the point of someone taking it personal. You have the advantage of researching 1 subject in advance to debate it catching the GM unprepared for a corner case. This in no way proves your point, as a matter of fact it could be construed as bullying (even if unintended), especially with a new GM.

I further disagree your opinion is binding to PFS GMs as THEY are the arbitrator of the rules, minus a clarifying FAQ.

For what it's worth, I have clicked FAQ as well.

If a character uses a Swift Action on his/her turn, can a second Swift action be readied through "Readying an Action"?

Background:
-Multiple swift actions can't be taken on a characters turn, but the readying an action section says the turn is over after preparing the action. The second swift action therefore comes after the original turn bypassing this restriction.

-Readying an action uses a standard action, but allows a character to prepare a standard, move, swift, or free action to be taken later. Does the readied action change the type of action being readied from its original form (i.e. its a readied action, not a swift action allowing it to bypass the 1 swift action / turn limit allowing potential for a 3rd swift on the users next turn?

-Can a character ready an action he/she isn't ready/able to do when preparing the action? (Can a PC ready a swift action after they have already used one this turn.) The penalty for not being able to take the action when the trigger occurs is clear, but can they even prepare something they can't be prepared to do "in the moment"?

Note: Brought this over from another thread to generate attention and responses as the last thread had multiple topics and poorly worded title for the conversation.

He said 11 would pass a 10' span.

He also said clearing a 12' pit would fail if the acrobatics result was 11. So there is ammo for both sides.

Seriously though, the CRB states a 10' long jump is dc 10. If the gm says 11, no problem, as he can make circumstantial modifiers anyway.

If a GM jacks up the dc by 5, because my heroic figure isn't intelligent enough to jump from the edge of the pit and instead jumps 2.5 feet early and must exceed the far edge by another 2.5' to avoid falling in... I would seriously question the choices in my life leading to this.

I would also follow that individual all night to ensure he was walking in 5' increments every time he left the table.

A 10' span is dc 10. You will need 15' movement available to occupy the far side.

Edit: Sarcasm included for effect only. Nefreet I appreciate your wisdom on the forums, but your interpretation here is outside established dc's in the CRB based simply on a fixation on squares. Squares are a necessary mechanic but we shouldn't be chained by them. This results in a poorer game as heroic characters are reduced to bumbling idiots. The increase of 5 is too much outside RAW in any case. It is literally the difference between swinging a +5 sword like Excalibur and a rusty sword to hit an opponent.

This came up about a week ago in my game. The rider was hit by a wolf with the built in trip.

My initial thought was to rule the rider was knocked prone, but still in saddle if the mount moves. Basically he's hanging from the saddle, requiring a move to reorient himself or he continues to suffer the prone penalties.

After quick deliberation, we went with an opposed ride check to avoid which he succeeded due to his military saddle adjustment.

In retrospect, there is nothing prohibiting a sitting person being knocked prone so I think my initial reaction was the correct one as it doesn't interfere with Unseat feat territory, or Grant immunity to trip. If you do rule it dismounts, then ride checks to land on feet come up which didn't make sense either.

I consider it a quasi-evil act, even if cast from a wand. Maybe not enough to cause a fall from the grace of one's deity (depending on the deity), but there certainly should be repercussions.

Example: Cleric of Sarenrae UMD's a wand of IH to save a party member, or maybe to save his "big" healing spells for the next encounter.

Later that night the gods get together for a game of "Nobles and Savages" (Nobody likes Asmodeus because he will only play Nobles... the big baby). Asmodeus gives ole Sarenrae some friendly pointed jabs. "Hey Sar, you call yourself the Goddess of Healing? Weeeellll, one of your clerics (or Paladins) turned to me for healing power earlier today... Oh don't worry. It was my pleasure that part of my divine power could save one of your's. Oh, No need to repay me, I'll just jot this down for posterity's sake should the situation be reversed someday."

Understandably, this miffs Sarenrae. The next time the cleric prays for spells, he gets a full complement of CLW, CSW, and Cure Moderate Wounds. The cleric doesn't invoke his diety's wrath or cause an alignment change, but he should get a message he is skating on thin ice, nor should he find himself with a lack of healing spells in the near future...

As a GM you have other ways to equalize the situation short of alignment changes and atonement spells.

A door is obviously not a wall. If I try to sunder a thick wooden door and the GM declares if has stone hardness because it's part of the wall there's a problem. It's a separate object and a this is a legitimate, colorful use of the spell that obviously works both ways as any chance of surprise by either side is gone. I can imagine the Barbarian who held his turn in order to attack the 1st thing through the door (I doubt he has spell craft to ID the effect, and the party wizard/cleric are about to announce the spell, but simply decide otherwise seeing the Barb charge =) Ahhh, good times...

As for the gem question, invisibility is only dropped when the object is used for an attack. The Magic Jar attempt would qualify, but simply being thrown over a wall would not. I was going to say you might need See Invisibility, but line of sight is not a prerequisite to enter the gem so I see no problems at all with this approach other than you may attempt to dominate a stray dog, or the street urchin, rather than Guard_NPC_027 since you don't know whats on the other side of the wall at all.

Grey_Mage wrote:

WBL are guidelines. If a player mentioned them to me, he wouldn't be invited back.

Seems a tad hostile. Depends what you mean by mention.

"God GM get your act together and give us some WBL loot" -- OK response understood

"Are we going to get WBL gear this campaign?"
GM: "Get back munchkin!"

Shrug. The GM bears the weight of the campaign world on his shoulders. The GM places far more investment in his/her world than players who explore it.

Players are welcome to vote with their feet, but do not complain about loot. Encounters are balanced accordingly.

A discussion about long terms plans are one thing, but breaking out a WBL chart is another matter entirely as it implies entitlement vice trust in the GMs ability.

The most memorable campaigns are with characters that grew in
unexpected directions based on the challenges and tools available. My favorite is the elf who wished for fire resistant skin because he was tired of getting fireballed by the mage and fire cleric .

At the end he was a reptilian elven rogue with a blood drinking axe.

Note: the axe was not his chosen weapon but grew into it.

WBL are guidelines. If a player mentioned them to me, he wouldn't be invited back.Sit back and enjoy the ride and help me tell the story of your characters.

Scars of the Third Crusade comes to mind.

If its not on chronicle, Inventory sheet, or character sheet, it doesn't exist.

If they declare they have an item that boosts a save, they should be able to provide documentation. I wouldn't take their sheets because that can be considered accusatory, but they won't get the benefit of the item unless they can prove it.

How often would they be doing this? I'd be bored as hell if my one and only trick was hopping away like a coward all combat.

Let me summarize the effects:

"Dex Monkey Trap finder" enters a room first when initiative begins. He wins and immediately readies action (standard and 5' step).

BBEG charges and DMTF interrupts with a readied attack and 5' step. BBEG can no longer attack DMTF because he used a charge (full round action specifically barring 5' step) and DMTF is now 10' away.

Other 5 party members are buffing and ranged shooting minions.

Next round DMTF does the same thing. BBEG 5' steps forward to full round attack, but DMTF again standard attacks and backs up 5'. BBEG sighs and takes another 5' step changing his 5' step into a movement action, so he only gets a standard attack this round.

Buffed party cleans up minions and starts wailing into BBEG.

Summary:
After two rounds of combat BBEG got 1 attack (a standard) while 2 standards have connected vs him. His minions are gone and now he faces 6 buffed opponents.

Some here simply call this tactics. I call it a substandard combat due to abuse of weak game mechanics resulting in a lackluster gaming experience by players who weren't threatened even by the climactic end encounter.

And the real issue? This tactic requires no skill or feats. Its understandable if the Crane Style Monk jumps out there to hold off the BBEG, but a peasant or lvl 1 familiar could have tanked the BBEG for at least 2 rounds with this method. Substitute in an Animal Companion or other disposal HP asset and you have effectively broken the game as there is no risk whatsoever against tanky-type bosses.

EpicFail page two I said I will go with a flicker...that was me owning up and moving on. Now I am just posting because despite it being stupid I feel the need to defend myself, even though I doubt any of you are better or worse than me....different I am sure. The player as he gave up the character said he would do this one day.

This has NOTHING to do with the scenario...but I had to rush this out since the paladin was intend on changing characters as he didn't like playing LG in a CG/LN type party. So I jammed it into the game as I was running out of time to throw it into RP with the paladin. That said I thought I might have been harsh with the paladin, so I came here to get opinions from people more used to dm'ing LG.

Nutshell.....again I don't feel I need to say this as it doesn't change the scenario at all. But if you feel the need to understand...there. it also allowed me to bring his next character a cleric in and have the group indebted to him right away.

Understand the angst isn't against you directly. It's just this apparent vendetta against Paladins has played out daily on these threads since I've started reading them.

I do feel you lost control of your players, but lets face it, sometimes I'd rather herd cats than players. A major conflict happened that could have cost you players (I've seen it over less). At the end of the day its a game. If the players are happy, that all that matters (nobody cares about the GM's happiness anyway...)

As an outside observer, I suspect the Paladin was influenced to abandon the character because his current one was "broken". Regardless, the party has shed blood with this individual and should have an emotional connection. Please consider rolling the character as an NPC into your story line later. Maybe seeing the Paladin as a depressed drunkard (play up the grief bit, this should not be comic relief) and then later in a redemption story where he gets his mojo/groove back and give him a place of honor in the kings guard or something.

You made a judgement call. It went badly, but the reverse could have easily been true and even if you went total defensive a crit could have had your barbarian pushing daisies.

The fighter became an NPC while dominated, you killed a NPC.

Although posters on both sides are correct, it all comes back to your judgement. If it were me I would've done the same. Although not required to strike back, a raging barbarian can't use int skills so even if he were well versed in arcana, he wouldn't be able to use it to ID the effect.

If you ended your rage you would have been even more helpless with a dangerous adversary adjacent to you.

If you attempted a combat maneuver, you may have incurred an AOO (depending on feats) that killed you in your round leaving other softer members vulnerable on the fighters next turn...

It seems to have had an emotional impact. In a RP game, that's a good thing. Sorry to hear about your friend.

The evil doers on Golarion are actually pretty stupid. After all, apparently all you need to do is put a NO TRESPASSING sign up. No Paladin can invade your lair no matter what you are doing unless he gets an invitation.

Not that I believe this, but I'm just following the arguments of some people in this thread to their logical conclusion.

Is anyone doing some kind of knowledge check to know about the Necrotic Polyp?

My player scored astronomically on a knowledge check but since it was a unique creature I was less sure how to proceed.

I winged it by saying "he remembered reading an old text by a necromancer that theorized using/creating a regenerating creature to feed undead endlessly. Although, you are not sure if he ever succeeded, you strongly suspect it would look something like this if he had."

After the ghoul fight I gave them some supplemental information as they had a chance to examine it, but I roleplayed it into the investigation rather than free knowledge for a creature they definitely never encountered before.

I am curious how others handled this.

Accepting a mission will never cause a fall. Ex: The Paladin accepts a quest to bring the Venture Captain the head of a local Lawful Good priest. The Paladin accepts. Does he fall? No. The Paladin simply brings the head (still attached to the body, very much alive, and unharmed) to the VC. Just because you see no possible course of action for a Paladin to act within his faith doesn't mean there aren't any. Give them a chance to role play.

As others have stated before:
Only EVIL acts cause instant fall and dis-ownership by his/her deity. An unlawful act doesn't but the Paladin may receive a reprimand. Until enough acts have caused an alignment shift to non LG, there aren't penalties. In home-brew I might suspend some abilities until the Paladin reflects on his mistakes as a lesser fall, but I wouldn't in PFS.

As much as I hate to say it, you may not be ready to adjudicate a game with questionable legalities associated with Paladins of mixed faiths you aren't familiar with.

Yes, you have rule 0 (GM's right) at your disposal, but using it to override rule 1 (Have fun) is seldom advised.

Unfortunately, your misconception is among the most common possible regarding Paladins and I commend you in seeking out advice on the forum before sitting at the table.

Good luck. Let us know how it turned out.

Alignment is basically a mechanic for spells and abilities.

Someone who is 100% Lawful Good is probably worse than someone who is Chaotic Evil.

They really are exactly the same, except that the Lawful Good, claims divine right, while the Chaotic Evil claims well nothing not even that they did it.

I'm thinking maybe I need to do some research on the most vile code of conduct in history and base a paladin on that, and then totally justify why I am slaughtering everything. All I need is to start with a convert to my religion or die, now I can kill everyone with impunity and be just as bad as any chaotic evil, maybe even worse.

in other words : do not fret about alignment it is just a mechanic for spells, everything else is justifiable.

Why does everything have to be absolute? You must be the MOST LAWFUL and the MOST GOOD. What is wrong with using laws to ensure the most good is done for the most people?

Throwing my 2 coppers into the fray:

Before we tackle a difficult alignment like Lawful Good, lets start with a simple alignment True Neutral.

A True Neutral character can be obsessed with "balance" and take active means to ensure this "balance". It can also be a Laissez faire person who prefers to let nature maintain that balance knowing that despite local variance, things always return to balance. End result, even with the simplest alignment, there are multiple ways to role play it. In this instance they are polar opposites.

Simply put, there are multiple paths that lead to any alignment to include LG. Which does the character emphasize more? The Lawful or the Good? Which is the goal, and which are the means to achieve it?

I ran this yesterday.

To play up the eerie atmosphere I used small printouts with a dozen different versions of shadows moving, walls appearing to vibrate until they touch it, light levels fluctuating, and so on. I spread them around liberally but focused these more on the high perception characters and those actively searching (basically, the paranoid types) to let them explain to the party what they saw.

The players were so freaked out they were doing perception checks every 5'. After the second room they were so ingrained with people seeing things that never panned out, they completely ignored the one I gave to the only character to spot something amiss in the water in the third room.

So the lead character got surprised by the leech, even though the second person saw ripples moving in the water. He never bothered to mention to the party he saw something coming, even after the encounter. He thought he was seeing things again =)

They had a great time, as did I. Vey good scenario.

Andrew Christian wrote:

David Bowles wrote:

Advise, sure. Force? I don't think that's within the powers of the GM.

If the table is playing sub-tier 4-5, then the pregen needs to be the level 4 pregen.

There is absolutely no precedence that indicates you can choose to play an out of sub-tier pregen except in the 5-6, 8-9 or 10-11 sub-tier.

The pregen is part of the subtier calculation, so there is no "out of subtier" pregen. The pregen, to me, is chosen before subtier is calculated. The pregen can legally play the scenario or they can not. The end result sub-tier is irrelevant. The GM has no say in player sub-tier manipulation.

There is no precedence of a GM telling a player which legal PC they can use. Except passive refusing to hand out a pregen, which can be solved by the player bringing their own.

I don't understand why so many GMs even care about this if the players at the table don't care. I've never seen a group willing to tier up because of a pregen, anyway. It's always been a case of selecting the highest pregen that won't end up tiering them up. But this is another reason that I never use pregens and I encourage other players to never use them as well.

I agree with your logic, but disagree with the conclusion.

Playing a character grossly out of power with the party destroys the experience.

Ex. I played a 1-7 scenario where the APL was 2 until a 7th lvl character arrived and bumped it up to the next tier. None of the other characters could enter melee and expect to live more than a round at best. We all played 2nd fiddle to the 7th level character who walked us through the scenario.

Although the GM did a fine job, it was a lackluster experience for the rest of us. Note: this did not involve a pre-gen but the effects are the same...except with a pre-gen its avoidable.

This is a game, and it should be fun. I applaud any GM who cares enough to make it so for the players. Pre-gens should be the same level as the party.

Low magic campaigns are my preferred version to GM.

I like magic to mean something. I don't give out +2 swords. I give out the "Arvos Defender" - a Longsword with the Arvos family crest. Local superstition credited it with the safe return of its family members from several war zones in the past 4 generations - at least until they find it on a dead body...
(only I know its +2 or maybe +1 w/ +1 Deflection AC) They just know its higher quality than most other blades.

Basically: I arm my characters well but all items have flavoring rather than being cookie cutters right out of a book.

#1 Rule for players having fun in my book? Keep 'em guessing.

Unfortunately, this leads for more tracking on my part so fewer items helps me adjudicate combat. That being said, as the campaign progresses they are more well armed than most armies. I have found they tend to value their items more so than other campaigns.

I don't limit casters, as adventurers are always the exception to the rule. Finding other mages to steal spells from may be problematic though...

As a new GM to pathfinder, I have many concerns with this approach:

(Although I may come across with a restrictive mindset, its in the interest of understanding the rules)

1) How can the unseen servant manipulate something it doesn't have possession of?

Spinning a barrel is certainly within its level of knowhow, but how is it supposed to spin each barrel in each of your hands as you are in combat. Combat entails movement within your 5' space and you aren't staying perfectly still. Even if you fire all 12 shots at the same target, the opponent is moving within their 5' area so your barrels are moving.

Ex: Can an unseen servant clean a blade in use by its master in melee after every time it is bloodied?

Ex: Can an unseen servant coat a blade in use by its master with poison after every strike?

I don't see how the rule set allows manipulation of devices under other peoples control in combat, otherwise I'll ask my servant spin the barrel of the opponents firearm the other direction (if at close range) so they keep firing with a used barrel after the first shot.

2) You are also asking the unseen servant to load the weapon. As it has no proficiency with firearms it will increase the misfire chance by 4. Since it doesn't benefit from your feats it would take a while for it to reload 6 (or 12 barrels)

"an early firearm has multiple barrels, each barrel must be loaded separately. It is a standard action to load each barrel of a one-handed early firearm."