Graelsis's page

Well, It's been a while since i've been here. But i think this post is worth the response.

I agree with Kong. Magic is broken, and i'm sorry, but i didnt find a single argument (and ive read all the responses) that gives such an excellent, deep and solid point of view as Kong's.

Most of the responses here are about the money cost wich, yeah, can be a hard time if your DM dont give you the money you should have per level. Or, in the other hand, we have those arguments saying that "making magic risky goes against pathfinder basis..." well guys, that's what he's talking about, changing the basis instead of adding more and more rules to controll the, by far, most unbalanced feature in the game.

That beign said, he also told us that this is only a primitive idea of a bigger thing. I totally applause his way to expose this "alfa" version of what magic could be in pathfinder, and i totally love it. Even if i'm a cleric player.

Also, he's not even talking about making damage to the caster, but putting some REAL price to magic instead of gold. I bet you will think twice if the lightning bolt you are about to cast will cost you a week of concentration checks because you are high on mistic energy. God, WHAT A WONDERFULL IDEA WE HAVE HERE, CASTERS WILL BE THE GODS OF THE TABLE NO MORE. And of course, high level casters will develop more resistance to this "magic toxicity". It reminds me to dragonlance a bit.

All in all, i love this way of thinking out of the box. This way of working will be easier, faster, and much more rich in terms of roleplaying. I hope paizo look at this post with critic eyes and find here a way to enrich the game.

And if they dont, me myself will try to develop a way to make this work with houserules, even if it's hard. My congrats and respect, Kong, you totally nailed it.

PD: Focus on the matter we are talking about here. Going around small arguments like the commoner example will only make this post boring and will end nowhere.

Hi tall folks.

I'm here just to say that the class looks pretty cool. Also tall folk Reynolds did a very good job sketching the alchemist as a goblin folk...i mean, nobody better to blow things up, right?

"All of this is only a small sample of what the class has to offer. The alchemist is also a master of poisons (which he can craft for free each day just like other alchemical items), has easy access to a number of skills, and can act as the party's trap disabler or healer if necessary. The diversity in the class allows you to pick and choose exactly how you want to manifest your particular brand of alchemical discoveries."

This part is the best, variety is allways a good thing unless you try to do everything.

Also, talking about healers...¡¡¡¡please tall folks show us some healer powa and feats, us healers are a small group, but we are still here!!!

nogoodscallywag wrote:

Initially I didn’t like the idea of Goblins as core. However, after breathing and looking at the facts, I’ve changed my mind.

Interesting, because my gut reaction was "cool", but the more I walk away and think about it, the more I comeback convinced it will be regretted.

Just to take you "core" <>" common" line.
Are you prepared to put your personal capacity for evaluation on the line behind the idea that less than 1 in 1,000 non evil NPCs in Paizo products will be goblins?

I think your entire argument here is tied to saying that whatever homebrew you run is more important that the Paizo default setting. And that would be a pretty big mistake.

Hey'ho dear tall folk, i agree with you.

When the master creators said that goblins are the same but now are also a core race i was a bit dissapointed. Your post is a great reasume of what is happening here

"if you want to be more than just a different goblin, your DM will have to change the basis of the world game".

It's perfect!!! (even if you are a pinky it's pretty good).

I hope Paizo read all of this coments and make a change in the route. Maybe they can find a way to make gobs a bit more interesting in general rather than in particular. I mean, a gob background about how heshe became a hero could be awsome, but forcing us to make that every single time that we want a goblin character can be tedious, and also very limited if you want a "social inserted" goblin.

¡¡¡NOW VOTE ME AS YOUR NEW GOBLIN MAJOR!!!!!

The behavior I'm more concerned about (though decreasingly so as these discussions go on) is them being divas, as defined in the GameMastery guide. I'll post a relevant quote.

The diva is the center of attention, the focus of all roleplaying interactions that occur in the campaign world. Every conversation, introduction, and event is another opportunity for her to shine, while the rest of the group struggles to get a word in edgewise. No matter is too small or insignificant for her; she’s ready for the spotlight! Unfortunately, the rest of the players are bored to tears.
That's how I'm worried goblins will behave. It's actually the sheer excitement some people display at the prospect of playing goblins that makes me so worried, combined with some of the people at my gamestore group who are very excited about this either being ones who act like this already with their halflings, or ones who act kind of like this, but not enough for it to be problematic. Will it become problematic when they're playing a character who they feel would act problematically?

Hellow again!!! My dear best turtle friend.

You are right, and also it’s normal to worry when you are a DM in front of this situation. What i believe is happening here is…What if the world ALLOWS my player to make a LEGIT Diva?? Well, what can i say, ¡¡¡that sucks!!!

First, we Gobs are not Divas (an epic goblin guitar solo starts in the hut)

-¡DAMN IT, DAMON!

As i was saying…not EVERYONE here is a diva, of course we have Diva’s in our tribes and, of course, we all Will be annoying if we feel that the world or our environment expect us to be. As i see it, behaviour is a result of biology and interaction with our surroundings, beign it social or phisical. This is why i’m asking for a change in the gobs background that allows all of us top lay them in different ways.

Also, dont forget your are the god of gods (you call that DM), and you can make any changes you believe are good for the sake of your beautyfull world. That said, if you dont want a race that allows players to act like brainless monkeys or small Green Divas then you just need to speak with the god who wants to play a gob and tell him how the environment/social surroundings Will react if he’s nothing but a box of screams and lamelight sucking. That Will allow you to avoid that “permission for disrupting” of the race, and also will be helpfull for your god to create the character heshe wants.

Oh, and remember, my dear tall folk…there’s nothing you can do to stop the divinity of a goblin bard, even if singing in your world is forbidden!!!!! BECAUSE YOU CANT STOP THE GOB BEAT!!!

(epic choir in the background).

They dont want us here!

we're the goblin kind

treated just as pest

now in page num 5

do you think ur good?

just wait for us

goblin've came to stay

You will scream like past!!

...

The real question for all of us here is...Are elves still sweet and tasty or do we have to find another gourmet meat resorce?

I have to say i really like the speed modifications, it makes the whole environment look different. Things like "oh, an elf! people say you can almost fly when you run...is that true?" and stuff like that.

I do like the new feats system and how it improves the weight of your race history. I'm happy in general with the changes. We will send all our love dancing around a big stone and trying to hit as many seaguls as we can.

¡¡¡¡I’m back again!!!!!
Sorry for beign a bit late, i was taking a nap (long long one) and Dumb Ledore woke me up because some of you need some green answers.

So I see posts like this where people defend the Goblins in character, and I want to lay out what goes through my mind as I see it.

"This strikes me as a typical example of the kind of person who wants to play a goblin. He's being very funny and it's amusing, but how naturally can he fit these jokes into a campaign? Is he going to be derailing things to talk about fire and dogs and other Goblin things? Is this going to disrupt the tone of a dramatic campaign I'm trying to run? Am I ever going to be able to run a session including this guy that is not going to be about the fact that he is a goblin? Will anyone else be able to get a word in edgewise? Just how constant are these jokes going to be? With the kind of person who wants to make them be the same kind of person who would think to not make them for the sake of courtesy to other people?"
It should go without saying that I don't know anything about the specific person I'm replying to here, and I'm sure they're wonderful. I'm just trying to get across what my anxieties are as plainly as I possibly can. This post is funny and I like it, but I would not like to experience nothing but it for 4 hours, especially when everyone was trying to do a published module. I emphasize that I am not saying anything about this particular individual, but I do worry that the kind of person who is attracted to playing a goblin is also the kind of person who would be a diva without realizing it.
Is this still too insulting? I swear I'm trying everything I can and do not mean any offense.

¡¡¡¡NO!!! You are not beign insulting, tall folk, you are actually a really, really nice turtle (the best i’ve known). Let me answer you:

Also. Why did i say our jokes are not ment to make anyone fun? Because our behaviour have been made through years and years of bad relations with the world, wich means that if in your world THAT GOBLIN OF YOUR TEAM hasn’t felt that bad relation/people dont react crazy when they see him/her he/she should not be used to make jokes about himself/take the lamelight/love fire/hate books
Talk to your god, make the goblin PC great again. I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT TALL FOLK, I BELIEVE IN YOU.

But in the places where he's serious, he, at least to my eyes, seems to break character and stop talking like a goblin in any way. The only thing he keeps doing is using the word "gobs."

This is key, tall folk. Do you speak the same way when you are sad and when you are happy??? This¡¡¡¡¡ this is the key to understand that your vision of us, Green skins, is very limited. It’s not like you are guilty of that, i mean…it’s how the world of Golarion show us, and the main reason that Will cause your god to feel out of the Civilization (goblins are bad and crazy, and they can only be that, so when you find a serious Goblin probably is because he’s not playing his character).

To make a goblin character we need to develop this vision, as i pointed in the first message!!!!.

Are you gonna eat that dog?

A lot of that can be chalked up to goblins only being portrayed under specific circumstances. A throwaway NPC will never have the depth of PC, or even a major NPC. You think of them in one mode because we've really only seen them in the one mode. There really hasn't been much said on goblins, culturally. Other than they like fire and trash and don't like reading. We will definitely need more for Core, and players may have to create their own goblin culture.

I like this tall folk, heshe (dont know the gender, sorry) has the vision of a good good god. You need to wake this people up from matrix Malachandra, it’s your duty as a gob friend.

-I want to eat heshe

-Shut up, Dumb Ledore.

-But i love heshe

-¡¡¡¡But heshe has books!!!
-…-
-Dumb Ledore? …

I suspect there may be some confirmation bias there.

When I read the post, I see the entire thing in character. I may be experiencing confirmation bias in a way that makes me read the whole thing in character when the author didn't intend to. In such a case, I would be false attributing positive aspects and diminishing negative aspects to better support my position.

When you read the post, you unconsciously assign the perceived negative parts to the character and the perceived positive parts to the player. You may be experiencing confirmation bias that makes you separate in character and out of character when the author didn't intend to. In such a case, you're impressing all the negatives and stripping out all the positives to better support your position.
We don't know which of us is closer to the truth until the author comes back and makes a statement about which parts of the post is in character and which parts are not.

You were right!!! I’ts all IN CHARACTER (i mean, i cant do that because i’m myself a gob god, but you know…). I was trying to show that gobs can have the same humour states than other races, the problem here is to make the right changes to our background so then people dont react crazy when they find a serious goblin.

Ehmr….Boss?

Yes, Leopold?

Book…Book rat!

Uhr?

BOOOOOOKK RAT, RAT WITH BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooookkkksssssssssss….. (water splash)

This forum is making the bunyip gain some weight…

SOOOOOOOOOOO. CONNNCLUSION?
I love you all, even if you are ugly tall folks. AND, we gobs Will need some changes if we want to play characters with more background than “someone experimented with me thats because i’m different” or “i was adopted thats because im different” or anything that ends in “i’m not a murder please give me a chance to be a PC”.
And that’s all!!!!!! I’m going back to my nap, wake me up again if you need more sweet gob love.

Finally!!!!

It's ME, GRAELSIS, YOUR BELOVED GOBLIN, TALL FOKS!!!

No wonder why our ancestors decided to eat your children, look how maddy maddy you go when the great masters allow us to enter in the adventures!!! yooooouuuuuuuuuuuu oooopppppppppprrrresiiivvvee tall folks!!!

I want to say, since things are heated up, that i'm of course joking, and everyone of you that know me or my posts also knows that i love goblins. For the beauty of the sunny sunny goddess, I even act like one in this forum when i answer the topics.

That said, i've a few things to say about this, and i would like (like most of us) to be heared about this. I also understand that we all have different points of view, but you knwo what i allways say. I LOVE YOU ALL, TALL FOLKS (who doesn't when you are so delicious?)

ok, lets go now.

1: Dear world masters/creators. I know my people can be a bit tricky some times. We like to burn things down, kill people (and dogs), eat a lot (and dogs), scream a lot (and dogs), and that stuff. For me, beign a different goblin as a exuse to be in a party is ok, but i would work a bit more in the details about how do people see gob society in the new edition. I'm aware that this is just a blog and there are a lot of details to be revealed, but please, change a bit the situation of the gobs, just enough to make it more attractive rather than "you are different, but people will still try to hunt you down in every city untill you are famous for beign different". Even if that is ok, it seems like the only way to play a gob.

2: Dear world and adventures in general. YES, WE ARE NOW IN DA HOOD, AND WHE'VE COME TO STAY, YO PINKY'S. So...so...sorry, you know, the race. Nah, talking serious now; I can understand that making goblins a core race without any change is hard, even harder if you think that gobs are mostly evil and destructors and the background of the gob characters seem to be focused in just one thing. Maybe we can put our effort in asking for background improvements (i've seen a few awsome suggestions here) instead of fighting for the gobs to dissapear again in the monster manual as the pest they are now.

3: You dont know what a green kiss is, until you have try a goblin kiss.

GOBLIN SUGGESTIONS:

¡I have one!

¡Me too!

¡Shut up Richard, nobody likes your suggestions!

¡EVERYBODY LIKES MY SUGGESTIONS!

¡NOT SINCE YOU KILLED THE BOSS WITH THE LAST ONE, RICHARD!

Sorry for that, hard to contain the guys. Me myself have one suggestion for a new way to understand gobs; look, goblins have been long time despised and hated for the rest of Golarion, that's true. There have been now more than 15 AP's where the adventure's have fight against great evil.

What if, in the last adventure of pathfinder first edition, one goblin decides to change his destiny and joins the group of the official team in the battle?.

That gob doesnt need to be the greatest hero of all times, nor the lamelight focus, he just need three things; land, power and goblins. Maybe that gob can fight a greater evil just to turn himself in the biggest warlord of all times and then, with all that power, create with time, patiente and influence the core race you want to add in the game, a new race of goblins raised under the flag of a hero that believed in a possible change, in a new way of growing as an entire race, instead of just surviving fight after fight.

I think that may allow you to introduce a new type of goblin without the need of changing all the race. Of course there would be evil gobs, of course there would be still dangerous tribes, but there would also be the chance of fighting for a new socciety, for your beloved and your friends, for your family and, maybe, just maybe, for a moment when the people of golarion see you as a shinning beacon of hope, good, and prosperity for everyone.

And all of that without needing to say you are the only one different, but the result of years of effort, training, and the dream of one single goblin.

OOOOOR WE CAN ALL DANCE AROUND AN ALIEN STONE TO TURN INTELLIGENT.

YEAHHH EYAAAAHHH YEAAAAHHHEYEYAAAHH

YEAAAHAHHEYAAHHH

Sigh*...gobs.

Parts 3 and 4 are now live!

You can grab it HERE

Dear Jason "important tallfolk"

I have Heard the podcasts and i have to say i'm proud that we gobs are now a playable race.

The goblin community salutes you and we promise that we wont be eating too much ugly dogs.

Also, we want you to kill the goblin of the party, he's a disgrace to our magnificent race.

Hi tall folk, maybe i can help.

First of all, a couple here have just said about talking to your friend. That should be your first option like..."hey man, i was planning to play a necromancer and you knew it, could you please play something that wont try to kill me if i turn some undeads?"

Your second choice is just to play it. Take animate dead and just use it like it's a normal thing for you. If the paladin rages on just tell him that's the way you use magic. Maybe you can stick to the neutral alignement if you use the undeads only for good purposses (the goal justify the means). And if he tries to stop you just stop the game and show your cards. "i was playing a necromancer and you decided to play a paladin, i think you should adapt him so then we all can play what we want".

If avoiding that spell is not that terrible for you, then focus in other necromancy spells, wich are a lot, or speak to your DM to see if you can create an alternative version of animate dead that uses a different sort of energy. Maybe animating corpses with good energy and say that there are redeeming souls trying to earn a place in heavens? i dont know, just let your imagination fly

Here are the first and second level wizard scrolls that I can think of off the top of my head (since that's the highest level of spells I know you can cast) :

Protection from Evil (You'll be glad you made this when you need it)
Invisibility (never know when you might need it)
See Invisibility (preparing see invisibility every day is painful at the low levels, since you won't usually use it)
Glitterdust (When you see something invisible, you often want to share its location with everyone else)

I'm sure other people can think of more.

EDIT

I often leave tabs open to reply to later. This causes me to post after people have already invalidated everything I was going to say.

For me what counts is the fact that you tried to help me, so thanks a lot lad!

Pathfinder Society has the disturbing tendencies to throw incorporeal undead at level 1 characters, toss swarms at said characters, throw fliers at the party, send invisible monsters after the party and have you run into creatures with deeper darkness.

Which is also possible in a certain scenario which is labeled level 1-5.

We will not talk about Grabby monsters or the incident involving black tentacles. There was also a succubus somewhere around...

Remove fear tends to be more useful then remove sickness.

I'm taking your list.

I'm copying your list.

I'm printing your list.

I'm putting your list into my caster's agenda.

I'm telling my familiar (a bat) how awsome this list is.

I'm sending you a mental hugh.

Best thing you can do is role play it in character. Be the penny pinching finger waggler everyone expects and act accordingly. Once they require your services and you refuse on grounds of prior payment not received, they'll put up or shut up. Besides, asking one player to shoulder the whole burden of itemized wealth requirements (wands, scrolls, etc.) seems fairly selfish of THEM.

And that's not even touching on crafting wondrous items, something they're quite certainly going to want you to provide to them.

Well yeah, sadly i'm not allowed to take that feat (DM said it wasnt fit for the campaign and i accepted it).

I cant do as you said. Not because i dont want to, but because the answer will probably be: "ok, go f&@~ yourself, we will find another caster" (we are in an evil campaing). Also even in a good aligned campaign the result would be the same, what we talk off-rol is also made inrol normaly.

With my teammates you cannot say "my way or the highway", and i dont really want it neither. Also, i'm not mad because they dont want to pay me, i just dont do that scrolls and keep walking happily.

My problem here is that they are repeating this during the weekend like a way to disturb me, pointing that my way of viewing this is ridiculous and a nonsense and that really, REALLY, piss me off. So i came here to know if i'm really beign selfish and i need to change my mind or i just need to send them to f***ck a cow and understand that their point of view is not the only one.

I think your intentions are good, but, yeah, a bit selfish. You are asking for an extra portion of the treasure, after all.

Should the fighter get more than everyone else so she can buy a better sword? After all, she's using it to attack all of the party's enemies.

Should the cleric get more than everyone else so she can buy wands of restoration? After all, he's using it to benefit the whole group.

Should the bard get more than everyone else so she can buy a masterwork lyre? After all, a better performance helps everyone.

By saying that you want a larger share of treasure to help the group, you are implying (unintentionally, it seems) that every other party member is spending their money exclusively on selfish items.

You get your even share of the loot and spend it how you see fit.

Maybe i didntn write it correctly. I'm not asking for more money to me, i'm asking for money of we all so we can craft items like that only in the case that the item is usable for all the party.

For example. I can cast bull's strengh over the barbarian, but making a bull's strengh for "emergencys" or for some unespected situation cost me 75 gold pieces. I dont think its selfish to ask the barbarian "hey dude, do you want to go 50-50? this can make me help you in an emergency and it will not hit my pocket so hard.

Basically what you are pointing is that i'm asking for more to do the same that my mates do with the same amount of gold, and that's incorrect. If you find me asking for gold to, dont know, buying a pearl of power, an armour, or money for reading and adding more spells to my book then yeah, you can compare my situations with the one you pointed.

If i have to compare what you exposed to similar situations, it would be like that same warrior says "hey guys, i made armour for all of you, them cost me 500 gp". Answer: "ok bud, thanks, but thats your job since you can do it so...thanks for the free armours".

Scrolls are not something i have to use because my class need to, scrolls are an extra, right? Also yeah, i wouldn't expect the cleric to buy that wand on his own just because he's the one that heals the group. He can do that with his normal spells, taking a wand is an extra that cost money, its not like a bard who takes a better ukelele, its more like a bard that takes "brew potion" as a feat and starts brewing. He need extra money.

Well...i finally undestand the point of this gentlemen here.

For all the others of you, i will write this so your low comprehension capabilitys dont feel overwhelmed by the pressure.

This guy just rolled a natural 1 in diplomacy and it all ended up like this.

The monk did the same with a jump

Compare both situations and you would see how possible and convenient his movement as a DM was.

My repects.

Hellow everyone!!

I dont know if somebody has done this yet, because i didnt read all the messages in this forum. That said im going to answer you from my point of view.

- Basic rules, core Rulebook: Slow Fall (Ex): At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm’s reach of a wall can use it to slow his descent. When first gaining this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is.

The question here is: Was the monk too far from the wall due to that critical failure? If the answer is "yes", then he could not benefit from his aptitude even if he wanted to.

However, if the answer is "no, he was close enough but i still blocked that skill", then i think you nerfed your player because you wanted him to suffer due to that 1 in the dice, even if his class allowed him to land safely in a worse case scenario.

I dont want to make it seem that i'm judging you, actually, i know beign the DM also means beign under a lot of preassure and, sometimes, in our effort of making our players feel the pain for their mistakes or, at least, make the dungeon appear dangerous, we can commit some small mistakes.

In this case i think the answer is right in front of you, just a little bit of reading will give you the answer for your question

In the other hand, i'm going to say that you didnt describe the situation. I could imagine a campaign with critical failures in skills, and i also like to imagine the monk jumping, slipping in the landing, hitting his head and just falling down due to the momentary unsconciounes...just like in movies, and everyone looking down like "bruh, wasnt him supposed to be the best in this, cant wait to see the cavalier jumping"

Gold rule: the DM is law.

Just try to make the game fun to everyone and it will be ok.

EDIT: I just read what you wrote about reach and adjacents squares...Well, i'm afraid that in this game the answer is "yup", andjacent squares means you can reach something if your reach is 5'

You should not enter in that kind of discussion here, because that kind of basic rule is just too Deep in the game to be changed. Your player could say to you that an enemy cant grapple him because he's just in the corner of his 5' square so that enemy with the lance cant move enough his arm to reach him and make a grapple check.

When you have to "force" your point of view just to explain something normally its because you are not right, and indeed i think you are not, in that case.

This threat seems to be very active, thats pretty good!!

I lived a situation the other day that i want to tell to you, because i think it can be usefull.

I have been feeling bad about my group for a while. My problem? I was letting them discuss some of my decitions, believing that maybe if i explained to them some situations they will feel more valuated and all that stuff...

That was a mistake, our sessions turned in a "stop the game to talk about what we dont like" thing, and that was making me feel so bad about beeing their DM.
So i talked to them from heart to heart and they told me something pretty impressive. They didnt know about my feelings, they thougth that my bad humour or bad responses in the fights was something related to my girlfriend or something similar. Also, the didnt percieve the destroying critics they were doing to me. Sentences like "this make no sense at all we are in Narnia" or "I dont believe this NPC should act like this, this is stupid" for them was just comments, but for me that kind of expressions were realy hurting.

What i mean here is...you cant read your friend's minds, you need to talk to them, maybe that playing style is something they use because it make them feel secure and comfortable, maybe they are a bit shy to roleplay a character like if they were actors...dont know, it can be anything.

Dont bother about "how the game should be", the best thing of role playing is that you can make it however you want it to be! Your characters can be peasants with dreams of honor, valor and glory, or they can be goblins fighting just to live another day!. This is why this game is so damn great, because the only barrier to it is our imagination.

So, forget about all the comments here that tell you how the game should be, they are all for definition wrong, because we are not here to talk about something written in the books, are we? no, we are here to help you, to give you the tips or keys so you can have fun with your friends.

Seriously, man, talk to them, i'm sure you will find that treassure you are looking for.

It is i, the voice of goblin knowledge, listen to me.

Talk.to.your.friend.

Yeah, your friend. Is your DM also your friend? then just talk to him as you would do with any other issue you could have with him. If you are accostumed to say "hey dude, please, can you stop beign a DICK? then just say it to him.

Second.

I've plenty of friends, but i just play with a bunch, and there are a few friends i never call to play in my AP's, just because we cant stay in the same table without arguing, some people just dont have the same motivations to play this game.

If we focus in the things you have said, it seems that your friend likes to be, you know, the winner, and for me thats a very bad point of view when you are mastering a game. Actually, i never confront my players, or feel bad when they defeat an enemy with ease, i just feel bad when they are not having fun, or when i'm not having fun.

So, talk to him, and if he says "this is the way i like to DM" and you just dont like it, look for another group and enjoy the game.

Graelsis wrote:

I would never be a paladin in a game like that, i'll probably call the guards of the first big town we visit just to imprison my party, that kind of attitude only make it worse time to time

So what you're saying is we should go tell the guards about the paladin consorting with evil humanoids and how he was trying to lead them back into town when we stopped them... What town is going to imprison us for killing goblins that were going to be coming there? ;)

Its just a matter of time that you apply that same sismtem to someone that do not deserve the DEATH SENTENCE you want to apply to him.

Even those goblin dont deserved it, being evil is not something you should punish with death. Of course that is my opinion.

And for the record, i was talking about a group that act like you exposed, not to the specific situation we had here. Also, if you think that bluffing one of your party members just to kill folks you dislike or to break his moral believes when he's not looking is something you can do during the campaing without consecuences...then i think you are pretty wrong.

Also, as i said, thats only my opinion. And i would like to remember i'm talking about how a GOOD ALIGNED character should act.

No, it wouldn't be grounds for falling, because he wouldn't use poison. He'd help his friend make an informed decision about his medical options, thanks to the fact he has ranks in Heal because why wouldn't he? Of course he will spend time in prayer with his deity, asking for guidance, as he considers all of the options available. That would be the lawful good thing to do. He knows that wolfsbane is a potential cure, but that it is a poison with risks associated with it. With his heal check and some asking around, he also probably knows that wolfsbane costs about 500gp, while a... etc etc

Best, response, ever.

Now i want to be a paladin. Sir, you really made the difference in this post. Excelent thoughts, beautifull answer and, truth be told, fantastic role playing point of view.

As PCs, we know that none of the townsfolk have been injured in the goblin raids, just that food and livestock have been stolen. And I'm pretty sure the goblin was telling the truth when he told us that they only raided because they were hungry (tbh at this point I can't remember if any of us failed or passed our sense motive checks... lol Maybe my DM or some of the other players can chime in here if they remember).

As far as the sincerity of their surrender, we're playing the Pathfinder beginner box wherein I think the goblins are supposed to try and broker some kind of truce with the PCs. The dragon invaded their home and they want him gone... enemy of my enemy kind of situation I think.

And, in all honesty, my DM is probably just making them "good" because this whole scenario is not going in the direction he was expecting. So as far as some kind of groundwork for good goblins... no idea lol

I'll give a twist to this situation, so maybe you and your fellows can see why this situation or the sincerity of the goblins are far from being a solid part of your decitions.

"You are tied, a group of evil people raided you, you have already lost 2 members of your party, and your actual captors are talking about killing you all or not killing you al while you cant defend yourself. One of them say "lets kill them, they are vermin" and so on, they conclude that you are not worthy of mercy.

All you did, and you have told them, was to raid a town because you were starving, but it doesnt matter since the people in front of you doesnt seem to have any relation with that townfolks"

-"But i'm telling the truth!"- you scream to the evil party.

-"We dont care, you are good aligned, so you deserve this"-

If you think this situation is something that will happen with an evildoer, then you should think deep and calm about the fact that you were the ones who did this, just because the alignement of someone that wasnt your opponent. They even asked you for help.

Ashbury137 wrote:

but what if the goblins in question have only raided the town for food and their surrender was sincere?

How would the party know if it was? Have you set up a world where non-evil goblins live? Is it a known factor in the world? If not, it's a pretty big leap of faith that THESE goblin are an exception to the norm.

So it's NOT that they are sincere but does the party have a realistic reason for thinking they are. Have you set the groundwork for them to think it's possible?

This, this kind of point of view is the problem here.

"how should i know this goblin was different?"

So you basicaly are saying that you can sly them, no matter the way you do it, just because the book say they are used to do evil things. You dont even need to make some investigations, because that race use to be bad, so...even if i'm the hero here i'm going to sly you and nothing will change.

This kind of argument is pretty obsolete for me. However, i'm an experienced DM not only in D&D but in human and vampire, so i'm accostumed to make my players think twice before they shot, or they will face the psicological consecuences, but i think pathfinder is a good setting to play as a real hero.

Ok, now i'm talking serious, because it seems that nobody cared about what i said because of the comic tone i used.

You really have a big problem here. Your problem is that you are being evil with evil creatures. I will write it again, you are being EVIL with evil creatures.

Even if your enemy is a monster and you want to be good aligned or, at least, dont act like an evildoer would do, you must keep on the good side of the history here.
There's no excuse to someone that takes prissioners and sly them while they are defenseless, even if they are assasins, its not your job to judge them if you are not playing that kind of scenario.

I'm talking about good aligned players here, i dont care about your neutral wizard, for me it seems that he's just a neutral evil disguised player. "Kill that vermin while they cant defend themselfs" yeah, that sound evil enough for me.

What i'm saying is that the alignement of your enemy doesnt matter when you are talking about doing something good or bad, if you kill a murderer, you are still killing, and if you are doing it for a greater good, you are a murderer for a greater good. That goblin could be good aligned and nothing would change the fact that they raided a town, right? well, the same applys for you.

It really pissed me of when my players act like this and pretend they are the good people of the history. Heroes are made by sacrifice, just as batman oath to avoid killing, even if that keeps him fighting over and over, or captain america when he had to turn into an outlaw because he believed his friend was innocent. Heroes do whatever is correct, whatever is good, whatever is need to be done because is the right thingn to do, even if that cost them to take some goblins to justice, or to believe they can redeem themselves and turn into usefull folks.

If you are not willing to do that sacrife, or you decide to take the easiest path just because its easier and you dont believe in changing, then you are not the hero of this history, and you dont need to be, this game is about adventuring. But please, dont play like you have exuses to be evil, or to do simething that's not right just because of the situation, because thats not correct, evil acts are evil, no matter the situation that forced you to do it, you still did it.

Now, with that in mind, i think you should understand better what your paladin has to do. Of course this is just my oppinion, but in that case, i wont allow anyone in my party to sly a surrendered enemy, even if i have to defend them against you, because there's no excuse for cruelty when you are a paladin, there's no room for "slightly evil acts", and of course, there's no room to consider an enemy something worthless just because his, her, or it alignement

So, how would you handle these Goblins?

WU..WU...WUUTT???? Hold there a min!!!!

First, we goblins are not THAT evil, ok? we are just SO HUNGRY ALL THE TIME. Have you even tried to live with a hunger like that? i can even eat 3 times my weight!!

Second, that was OUR CAVE, and you, "heroes" came here to kill Igor and Paolo and then tie the rest of us just to argue about the ethics of not killing your prissioners!! Come on!! this is why we allways eat your children, if you have the chance to grow you became weirrrrrrdddddd.

Third; VERMIN??? HAVE YOU SEEN YOUR FACE????

fourth; i like that dwarf beard, its just like a brown cloud...and i like clouds, Paolo used to like them too.

fifth: Dind't we say something about a DRAGON? i mean...you people are weird.

Oh, and just to end this chitty tall folk nonsense chat...yes, we are evil, no, you should not feel bad about killing us in normal situations but if you are in doubt, just think from other perspective.

Would you think that we are evil if we tie someone up and then we kill him?

If the answer is yes, then you are evil too...WELCOME TO THE PARTY

this is why us goblins never write our ideas, how did you tall folks end up talking about Asmodeus paladins? didnt you have enough with the poison dirty dorty piggy issue?

paladins are meh none of their abilities even justify needing to be locked to a single alignment and there are several other classes that are way more powerful then a paladin and not as gibed by restrictions

Meh?...OH¡¡¡ Most Epic Hero!!!

damn tall folk!!, you really are a tricky one, i like you¡

I completed DMing my RotRL campaign on Tuesday 22/08/17. It took us 6 years, involved 11 deaths and the party earned 95 levels in total. I've lost count of the number of grey hairs the Dms shed!

Anyway to Commemorate this achievement and because none of my players ever will I present; The Hero's of Sand-point!

Cody - 18th level Barbarian, Ex Human Male now Enlarged Gnome
Kaliban - 18th level Fighter, Dwarven Male, through and through
Mabb - 4th level Cleric of Pharasma/4th level Mage/10th level Mystic Thurge, Ancient Human Female
Lanedorm - 18th level Rogue, Elven male, now Halfling dreaming of been an elf once again
Mogash - 18th Level Druid, Halfling! Summoner of T-Rex's that become confused all too often
And finally: Lynx - 18th level Lynx, the lynx

Thanks Paizo best Campaign Ever! Until the next one...

My congrats, i'm actually starting this campaingn with my group. It seems it will be an epic, long, and unforgetable journey!!

Goblins killed, goblins bited (L)

My dog had to be put down two days ago and I wanted to make her in Pathfinder as a way to memorialize her.

I wanted to make her a blink dog companion with magus levels using this feat, but everything I've seen about it is that it's a bad feat. Are there any changes that could be made to it to make it more balanced? This would be used in a three person party, so it would be alright if it was a bit strong, but I would prefer something that is balanced for a normal party so it could be used in the future as well.

Any suggestions?

I dont know very much about these rules, i just wanted to give you my condolences, i,m very sorry for your lost, i,m sure she was a great friend.

Also, if you ask me, i would use her as a powerfull NPC, like an old druid companion, one who can speak and its the guardian of some fantastic and ancient forest.

Hellow everyone!

i just want to thank you all for your advices and participation. taking a few ideas from you and some from myself ive developed a sistem to avoid this exploit of the squares system.

thank you, sincerely, even to those who dont think as i do, because from your point ive taken some thoughts too.

goblins chew and goblins bite!