Fortenbras's page

It would be cool to see a PHB2 that has 7 completely different races and 11 wholly new classes.

It'd be a good format for introducing Psionic stuff too. Perhaps a PHB dedicated to playing on one of the other planets in the Golarion system?

It's not a bad idea but honestly something like that may be best done by a third party publisher (or you, yourself).

Anyone remember the Book of Lairs from 2nd edition? I'd like something like that for PF....some simple quick and dirty monster encounters.

Fortenbras wrote:

What he said....too simplistic to make it a feat. It should exist as a spell or in the case of more advanced/intelligent undead, exist as a roleplaying exercise. i.e. so you want to make a mummy to guard a treasure horde....well first you have to travel to the sands of time for a sample of dust of whatever and then have the bandages blessed by the priests Amon-whathisface then this that and the other thing.

Except it's not that right now, either. Right now you cast Create Undead with a corpse and some brackish water. As Kirth pointed out, its really as complex as you want it to be, and a feat gives better ability to specify interesting pre-requisites.

For skellies and zombies, a simple casting and raising them out of the ground is fine though...I was speaking more of the intelligent kind. Just dono about the feat thing though, it just seems so mechanical...

Ross Byers wrote:

Larry, I do find it interesting that the things you are worried about a Craft Undead feat doing are exactly the things I think are wrong with the current system.

I just find the creation of undead as the result of a spell easier to accept than as the result of a feat. Spells imply magic occurs, which I believe is necessary to create undead.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work as a feat, just that a single feat that applies to all undead is too simplistic an approach. Earlier, you mentioned that multiple feats would lead to Necromancers' inability to choose other feats. I think multiple feats would do the opposite, by giving the Necromancer feats to strive for as he reaches higher levels. Imagine the talk around the table: "When I get to 9th level, I'll be able to create incorporeal undead!"

What he said....too simplistic to make it a feat. It should exist as a spell or in the case of more advanced/intelligent undead, exist as a roleplaying exercise. i.e. so you want to make a mummy to guard a treasure horde....well first you have to travel to the sands of time for a sample of dust of whatever and then have the bandages blessed by the priests Amon-whathisface then this that and the other thing.

Something like that should be more then a dice roll and some money.

Don't know,

the more I read and think about it, maybe the processes is best left as-is.

The issue of intelligent undead is...well, an issue. (in that you should not be able to just MAKE them)

And, I'm sorry but animate dead or at least the ability to accesses negative material and infuse it in a dead body MUST be a requirement. It's just gotta be there somehow...

houstonderek wrote:

and, um, i've been playing going on 30 years. when do i get to cast real spells???

So all told, to get 9th level spells, you need 10 kills and 45 converts! Tell me that does not make D&D evil.[/sarcasm]

Way too much work....most roleplayers are way too lazy for that :)

This looks like it's functionally the same as the old Create Undead spell, except without the level requirements.

Also, I'm not sure why you say 'arcane casters as well'. My version of the feat required Spell Focus OR channel negative, not both. Necromancers are just expected to prove it with a feat choice.

Undead are also really cheap compared to constructs. Since you ignore the HD cap, a necromancer can create an army of a thousand skeletons for 50,000 gp. Or the cost of about five flesh golems. I think the HD cap should stick around for this reason.

Isn't that the whole point of being an evil Necromancer? To create an army of undead...

Anyhow, I like the feat more with the Animate Dead as a prereq...it explains the ability to infuse with negative material. Honestly I'm not sure on cost however, that might be able to be handled in Role Playing....it's possible that a necro could get all his skeletons for free, for example, by going to the site of an ancient battle field....this wouldn't cost him anything other then travel time.

Limiting the creation of 50k undead however should also be done by RP means....logistically, what is a character going to do with that many undead? Where would he house them? How would he keep them out of sight of the local goody-goody paladin etc? The player who's hoping to create an undead army could find himself the plot object of a bad sci-fi channel movie...

I haven't seen this idea brought up before, but it makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, I think that the basic vanilla animate dead (they're tastier than you'd think!) is still worth having as a spell working just as it does now, for creating zombies and skeletons. Sure a human zombie isn't much of a threat at 9th level, but a troll skeleton or some other monster animated undead isn't too bad.

The craft undead feat would be a lot better though than the create (greater) undead spells.

I have to disagree with Craft Undead as a feat but it goes to how your DM/World sees undead. Having them be a craft almost denotes that they are some sort of Golem, which they are not. It is a corpse reainimated by dark magic. A corpse reainimated by lighting or some sort of quasi-science would be a flesh golem.

Simply having the feat, IMO, would do you no good in creating undead unless you have some way to infuse them with negative material.

Tarren Dei wrote:

Set wrote:

Ixancoatl wrote:

I think country music listeners had a higher than average rate at the time.

Well that's hardly a shocker! Have you listened to some of that stuff?

"My dawg done died, my wife left me for another man, my car broke down and the bank took my house, I think I'll have another beer."

Yee-haw.

I listen to country while I play D&D. Does one help cancel the other out?

No, country influence is overwhelming ;)

Little Trivia by the way, mazes and monsters TV movie was Tom Hanks first big gig.

Unless a company adopts the GSL for a product line, then that line is forever after barred from returning to OGL territory.

which is why none of them are going for it, they don't want the control over their stuff...

Dungeon Crawl Classics #39 from Goodman Games is a DM Screen and contains a short adventure as well. It's printed on VERY heavy cardboard with some great tables, I highly suggest it.

I've been experimenting with some other player races and was wondering if anyone else has done so in Pathfinder and what they came up with. Specifically I made up a Goblin Ranger last night. I kept him pretty much the same as in the SRD MM but I did change the dex bonus to +4 to even out his abilities.

I've also allowed my current players to use any +1 LA races as standard races in PF as they do seem to be about equal to the core PF races at this point.

Just wondering if anyone had any comments/experience with this?

KaeYoss wrote:

Saurstalk wrote:

You are a TEASE.

They all are. I think they've taken courses for it or something.

It turns out it's easy to be a tease when you only have general knowledge. As in this case—I honestly have no idea what parts of the Book of Experimental Might have been added to the PFRPG beta, but I know at least *something* has been.

So, to sum up, my "tease" lesson is this: "Know more than the person you're talking to knows, but not as much as the person you're talking to *wants* to know."

You've made my day friend :) I'm hoping/assuming that it is most likely the Breather/Grace system that may be included, it would fit in like a Lego block just nicely....

So I was strolling around ENWorld when I fell across this thread discussing the 4E playtest (and including the names of all 4E playtesters, so go check and let us know if you know one of 'em!) when I saw none other than Mike Mearls popped up to say hi. And one of his observations struck me as pretty interesting (it's here if you'd like to see it yourself)

Responding to a question as to why he [Mearls] did not chime in when seeing 4E bashed with what he knew to be untruths ...

Mike Mearls wrote:

Garnfellow, this is pretty much why. Playtesting and a few other topics just turn into mindless, recursive arguments that have no resolution. I can't refer to the rules text and say, "Look, this is what the game does."

In some cases, people *want* to believe the worst for a variety of reasons, and arguing with them on anything is a complete waste of time.

The most eye opening thing about the entire 4e process was how many people are what I call ideologues when it comes to D&D. The end result - whether the game is fun, interesting, and enjoyable - plays a distant second in their minds to the structure of the rules. The process, be it multiclassing, monster hit dice, or whatever, is more important than the end result of that process.

In other words, they'd rather use THAC0 than base attack bonus, because THAC0 is the right way to do things, even if it is slower, less extensible, and one of several idiosyncratic task resolution systems in the game. THAC0 has inherent value, by virtue of being THAC0, over other ways of doing things.

I've apparently had the same experiences as him with this whole 4E release (I remember the furor going from 2E to 3E, but was not quite to internet oriented, so missed most of the fun).

His example is funny because on these very boards I've seen some wax nostalgic over THAC0. Is it missing something from the past? Fear of...

I think both Mike and the OP have it wrong here. Most of the people I've seen posting here about PF have already tried 4th and decided that they did not like it. There is plenty of 4th ed materials out there if you look for it and there is certainly enough to play through a 1st level adventure, which I and my group have done. We, and yes that was all of the people in my group ranges from ages of 16 to 38, did not like it. None of us thought 4th was particularly fun, although it did have some fun elements.

The fact is that the fun elements that are in 4th could have been included into 3.5 without making the game like a MMORPG, which is what 4th feels like. Those of us here I think feel that PF is, at least, on it's way to finding that balance between the new elements and keeping what worked from 3.5

My vote goes for the max hit points and adding the con score...gives even the lowly 8 con person a fighting chance but gives fighter types a bit extra as their con will be higher anyhow so it keeps balace.

I don't care for the racial bounus....not all dwarves are created equal for example....why does a wussy 8 con dwarf wizzy (clearly he spent no time working his body) get 6 bonus hp when a elf who got out and jogged once and a while gets lower?

tdewitt274 wrote:

I'm actually curious how Paizo is going to get around this.

For the most part it's really a done deal because 90+ percent of Pathfinder's market is going to be us stubborn Luddites who are holding out against the change to 4.0.

I'm not sure it's just us old Curmudgeons....from what I'm hearing there are a lot of current D+D players who are not liking how 4.0 is turning out. The fact that this many companies are jumping ship from 4.0 and sticking with 3.5 or their own version of it is a testament to that. The fact that Paizo is going that route is a big deal.

For nostalgia sake I like dice rolling but the point-buy system is just much more fair and can be done before the players get to the game, so they are ready and you don't have to watch them roll.

Todd Johnson wrote:

If your planetouched dies, as an outsider, there is NOTHING short of a wish or True Resurrection that will bring them back.

Monster Manual (3.5), p.312, left column, Native Subtype.

Also the SRD wrote:

A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

Actually leaving them as Outsider might help to balance the race a bit more, if they can't be raised that is.

Todd Johnson wrote:

If your planetouched dies, as an outsider, there is NOTHING short of a wish or True Resurrection that will bring them back. In fact, as it stands now in the PRPG spell list, there isn't even an option for them. As wish's effect conforms now to a standard Resurrection, and there IS no 9th level True Resurrection on the spell list.

Native Outsiders can be raised normally. Asimar and Tieflings qualify. Most planetouched in fact are native outsiders. It's the extraplanar subtype that's a bit more dicey, but the spell compendium (which is not OGL, I know) did introuduce a raise spell just for them.

I use the FR Planetouched in my own campaign as a LA0 race and I think it works out rather well. I agree however that I think they could now be added back in as a player race as listed in the SRD Monster Manual. I agree they are pretty much equal to the PF Core races.

Bumping up the core races solves a huge swath of the problem as many of the "non-core" races people want to play are LA +1. But there are still those others that are problematic. I use Minotaurs in my own campaign as a standard race as well as Ogers and that can cause some problems. Right now I'm using the Savage Species method but that doesn't solve all the problems.

I love the minor magical abilities for the rogue. Ever since Basic D&D, the rogue has always been capable of eventually mastering a small amount of magical skill. I see these new abilities as merely reinforcing that possibility.

And I really like that it's now possible to play a jack-of-all-trades who isn't focused on music (though the Factotum already fills that spot nicely).

I have to agree, I like the added talents for the rogue I just wished they would do things like this for other classes so that it allowed you to customize more.

The new 4th ed introduced in D&D an idea for characters to heal themselves a bit without the need of a Cleric or potions/wands, etc.. This is a concept with witch I have toyed a while at my game table in different forms: Characters making Con tests to heal a little bit after battle, Fortitude saves, Heal skill checks, some magical energy that heals them once in a while, etc...

Anyway, I thought this improved my gaming a lot, it actually gave the character a lot more of a "battle-hard-hero-struggling-to-go-on" look; taking a time to catch a breath and tending to the fresh wounds after a strenuous battle; or just getting themselves motivated, inspired to go on again (and in that way a little HP back), or just a magical energy in the place that healed them once in a while; all that made the game flow much more briskly. They didn't have to stop the course of game only coz one of them got hit too badly, and since they went on for longer, it made the sorcerer plan a lot more on its spells.

So, personally, from my playtesting, I´d really like to see Paizo add something like that to their Pathfinder RPG, it would make me consider it a lot better. Second Winds, Heal checks, Con tests, Fort checks, Action Points, etc... whatever sounds better, that can be discussed. The point is that the ability for characters to heal up a bit by themselves should be in the game in some way... at least for me...

Monte Cooks Book of Experimental Might also uses a system similar to 4th but more attuned to 3.5. It's actually a 2 part system, making use of something called Grace points, which divide up your hit points into grace and actual health points. It then gives you the option durning a turn to take a break and recover your grace points and thereby heal.

Just wondering if there has been any dev chat on Level Adjustment? I truely hate LA and I know I'm not alone. I plead with the Pathfinder Devs to use something else for "more advanced player races." Sure you can just simply disallow them but we all know that's not going to happen, there needs to be rules set up for it and I believe they need to be in the Player's Guide.

Someone is going to want to play a drow at least so something needs to be set up. My personal ideas....either 1) A monster class system similar to what was in Monteys UA/UE or what was in the 3.0 Savage Species. I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of those systems either but at least they are better then LA. The other option is 2) simply de-power the races and somehow make them equal to the base races.

Now, it looks like PF has already helped with this by upping the power of the base races. In fact I think you could almost make a drow right now that is equal to the base elf.

Just wondering what others thoughts are and if the Dev's hve posted anything on this yet?

*nods*

He definitely hasn't played the game yet. Take a look at those schools, even a non-schooled wizard gets an ability.

Last 2 sessions we were having to take breaks because the fighter in the group needed more healing then could be expended via Turn Healing. Wizard in the group was the last person to ever complain about resting, he was only using his spells on the tougher guys, not the fodder.

Thanks for the update, if that is the case then like I said I think the rules have a big chance to take over as the base Fantasy RPG. I don't necessarly think that Clerics need a blast power but they do need something that they can do every round. The idea is to not have certain classes be bored durning the round. Cleric/Druids should not be just healbots.

The Energy Channeling helps and so does the Sorc's choice of Bloodline but there are still issues witht he 5-minute workday that need to be solved. Maybe I'm missing it but I don't see anything yet for the Wiz (and to a lesser extent the cleric)that gives them an "every round" basic magic attack. IMO this is a must to fix 3.5, do that however and I think Paizo is on their way to creating THE base d20 RPG system, replacing D+D 4th...

I have to say that I very much like the Talent System introduced for the Rouge but why can't we do these for every class. It would be akin to the Discipline system that Monte Cook did for his Book of Exp Might. Would be very helpful in allowing a customization for each class and help eliminate the 5 minute workday. Just eliminate the powers that classes get and transform them into Talents that people can then choose to take...Simple...

sort of a side to the full thread here. does anyone know of anyone selling indevidual cards. i know there a lot of pleople who like to buy cases of boosters? i didnt see anything on ebay

I would have to agree that a singles market or at least a trading post is sorely needed.

I just find this item card thing bizarre. I keep a list of items and their locations on a piece of paper. I just don't get it.

Can someone explain the appeal? Is my failure to appreciate it related to my age?

I don't think it's age, I'm 37 and I love them. Got to be play style I'm thinking. Or a history with CCGs, don't know, not sure.

Does anyone do any Item Card trading here.

I need a Greatsword and a Warhammer and I've got a bunch of stuff to trade.

let me know