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Thanks all for the help.


The spell states that you can make an attack along the way. I thought that meant you can use one of your attacks.
So you're all saying it does grant an extra attack?


I hope I'm putting this in the right area. If not I am sorry and any help in getting it to the right area would be appreciated... I don't use forums usually.

Anyway the question: Can a Magus use the bladed dash spell with spell combat to move 30 up to a group of enemies, make all their attacks, and get a bonus attack from the spell?

I have a player insisting this is how it works and I'm just trying to find out.

Again any help I am thankful for.


I think there comes a time in every game when the dm looks around the table and has to step aside and know his vision of a story is not going to take place, because lets face it with so many minds interpreting the surrounding world the story is bound to go differently then you expected, however I didn't think this would happen ON MY SECOND GAME DAY!!

It all started when:
The group was split up and each had experienced a different horror except for the brute who was enjoying his meal while being surrounded (unknown to him) by a group of creatures that can hypnotize with but a thought, they were able to keep themselves out of his mind and unseen but were unable to influence him because of his lucky will rolls,the most one could do was to place an illusion on him that would make him see any friend as a threat but the threat was for his mind to decide, meanwhile another character the inspector who was shooting around the room and not looking shot and killed a fellow PC. (this was tossed in because the player who owned said PC had to drop the game and said to use them for the horror scene any way I could) the inspector seeing what he did was shaken with fear and began looking for a way out, he found one and decided to see if the one with him had any guns or ammo he could use upon turning around he saw the person he had shot was now naked, moving to inspect this he found the person he had shot had bite marks on him, not caring too much about this the inspector looked around for what might have done this and then looking back saw the body was mostly eaten even though it was just a short time by his perspective,the inspector took the leg bone from the now half eaten corps and moved on down the tunnel.... no I don't know why he took it.

magic at work:
The inspector met up with the butler cultist as they were going down the hall trying to escape their personal horrors, the butler lost his other companion from last time (another player who had an appointment and couldn't make it) after walking for a while they found two doors, and the inspector had high enough perception to notice runes (to him just scribbles) inscribed on the door, the cultist upon having them pointed out to him noticed they were spells turned into traps one of alarm and one of teleportation that would take them into another part of the abbey, with this new information the cultist knew he was hopelessly lost since he had not clue how many they had gone through, the inspector just went through a door and ended up meeting the brute now sleeping off dinner. the inspector walked up and still under the hypnosis of the ones in the room with the skeletons took a bite out of the sleeping brute he doesn't remember taking the bite and the brute woke up in pain as his shoulder bled, he looked around for how did it and the illusion took effect making the inspector look like a wolf.

Thinking in character?:
upon seeing the medium sized, hungry, growling wolf, with blood dripping from its muzzle from already taking a bite out of him the brute declares he is going to ignore the wolf and just eat turkey....... the other players explain this is not a smart thing to do to which the brute points out his intelligence of 6..... a half hour later we can start again and the brute attacks the wolf which is in reality the inspector, after the first attack the inspector runs for the door and the illusion wears off.... this was supposed to be the shock moment of "oh dear I attacked my friend"..... but when the illusion wore off and the brute saw the inspector he states "I wonder if he tastes better then turkey" and tries to kill the inspector..... his attack misses but he does fail his dark powers check for attacking a friend and his alignment is no longer chaotic good.

Meanwhile:
The adventurer and the cultist who were fighting the suits of armor make it away from them easily enough and end up finding the meeting room where the brute has now forgotten about the inspector who ran away and who he almost killed, and is eating more food, the others sit down and again everyone is overly lucky with the saves and don't get dominated. The inspector after going through a teleportation door meets up with the butler and the butler patches him up, they then search a room that was marked with an alarm that the cultist scratches out first to disable the magic, the inspector is the first ever to get as high enough will save to not only see but remember the creatures that have been watching them this whole time, he is horrified and begins trying to burn the thing but it is immune to fire and the inspector manages to set the room on fire much to the creatures delight not that anyone could tell since they are faceless humanoids with long fingered hands, the butler can not keep this creature in his memory so he just thinks the inspector is crazy, as the creature taunts the inspector by doing things like teasing the butlers hair, dusting his coat, even pulling butlers gun and putting it to his head, the inspector decides enough is enough and shoots at the creature...... which is right behind the butler...... see the problem with that? so after the butler runs for his life sure he has been shot because he was shot at and he is now covered in blood from the wounded creature he can not remember he dashes through a teleportation door and meets up with the others.

NEVER EVER PUT EXPLOSIVES NEAR CHILDREN:
Ok so my players are not kids considering the youngest is 14 and the one who found the room with the aged wet gunpowder is in his 40's, but still he gets the brilliant idea that since I have a room with high explosives he is going to blow the room up..... add in the inspector who now is traumatized and yes they manage to blow up a quarter of the abbey...... so yes to all those DM's out there if you think its good to put in a room for players to be careful around and not to touch because it could go BOOM and kill everyone...... don't.... just don't they will blow it up....

Facepalm:
so the abbey was now in ruins this was a good time I thought to move everyone to their secondary characters, now waking up on a beach in the past before the abbey was built, they know nothing of the other characters, and are going looking for them, they find the same cliff but up top is an area recently cleared of trees and brush and staked out for the beginnings of building a wall, this will be the abbey but they could not know that so I didn't say so. they saw smoke in the distance so most of the party ( this party consisting of a female brute named Gretta, a cultist named Netalia, a scientist named professor Ugenhind, a cultist named lucus, a cultist/scientist named erringunner, and another brute named Arkin) Lucus decided it was good to go through the woods, Erringunner who has a machine that can fly takes point keeping everyone in sight as she fly's over the trees, arkin and netalia follow lucus who then decides he doesn't want to be followed and rushes off to hide from everyone.... the professor picks up the rope from the stakes to sit down and make a trap, Gretta try's to reason with him but his will not listen so she knocks him out and follows the others, a few hours later the professor wakes up and the group is at a small town with a grand stone wall around it, the wall is 30 feet and they are all waiting outside the gates, they are informed they can either stay in the woods or they will have to be sequestered in the church for the night, netalia who pretends to be a priest says she has no problem with that the professor argues but enters anyway, lucus takes this opportunity to, step back from the group and stay outside the gates, he pulls out his book in full view of the guards on the wall and begins casting a spell, obscuring mist, but is shot almost dead for doing so..... cultist need to keep secret.... the rest of the party is told that the shots must have been a wolf getting too close to the gates as they couldn't see who was shot and had at this point given up on lucus who just seemed to want to be left alone they moved on with the seven guards.
They saw a tavern and asked for some food the guards explained they would get some at the church and went to keep walking but the professor pulled out an bomb and demanded food, every guard who had their guns out pointed them at the party, Gretta knocked the professor out again.... his bombs now confiscated they moved to the church which the guards showed there as a hidden staircase below the stone stage, also a strange door that had the lock completely encased in the door so you could only lock it or unlock it from the inside. food was delivered and everyone sealed inside the door that hey could unlock when ever they wanted but couldn't get through the stone stage, they began to settle in for the night but the professor dismantled his bed to make a gun that was spring loaded and could shoot cards because there were two decks of cards in the room. after annoying everyone trying to sleep by belting them with cards Gretta knocked him out again they spent the night quietly....
Lucus on the other hand now after patching himself up with a heal check attempted to climb the wall, it took him many tries but he managed it, he got into the guard house from there and found a light source not the least bit bothered by no guards around or the entire town pitch black he continued along outside, he saw a few houses oddly enough all with the same enclosed locks but the locking mechanism was on the outside, anyone could open it from the street but the occupants could not. he immediately found a blacksmiths shop and got a bag of coal, matches and started up the smithy to make a weapon since everything was just laying around for anyone who wanted to use it. having no crafting skills he injured himself three times but made a rather lousy knife..... he then sat down because he was very hungry and tried from all the work he had been doing and it was the middle of the night. He sat down and to stop his hunger he ate a piece of coal..... (I don't know why, it wan't my idea it was his!)not paying attention to anything but his "meal" he was attacked by the weretiger guards and killed thus gaining the template and being cursed to forever be in this town and never be able to leave or he dies for good.

WHY ME!?:
The game ended there with the rest of the party waking up and being greeted by the now happy guards who will be glad to show them around town as long as the sun is up..... at which point I would have ended there but the professor wanted to state he is going to craft.... and I quote.... a butt gun.... hopefully he will forget about it by next week.... more after Saturday if the game doesn't blow up that is


lol thank you, I love Scooby Doo and the gang, I was pleasantly surprised when my group all split up without any prodding. made it so much easier to set the mood


oh final note. Everyone said they had a lot of fun and the one who had wanted more money complimented me on running a good game and getting creepy right :D


before game started:
I decided to make it a game where people had multiple characters, 3 to be exact and this way I could split them up later and use their other characters against them in the horror scenes also it gives me a quick way if someone dies to just continue the game since most things will be all in there heads for the first part of the game. I did all home brew classes since I wanted it to be low magic, the only trouble came about when I set the gold at 900 to outfit all three characters because they were buying passage to a new world on a ship, well one player figured out a way to exploit the rules and get there all on his own with his family only so he demanded his LV 3 gold back, he was upset that I told him he had to follow the game plot like everyone else and could not be starting with more gold. other then that the start went off without a hitch, I put them all on three different ships, the one player on his own since he figured out how to get there on his own, and everyone else was split 4 on one, 3 on another.

On the ship:
I allowed one magic class called a cultist in my game it has very limited spells but is a very powerful class if you play it right, they tend to blend into other society but some have been found sill the existence of magic is not known and most think these cultist are just crazy, however people being people will always think "what if?" So when the ships had become becalmed in the middle of the ocean and hadn't moved for over two weeks with an ever present mist that could not be explained and all compasses spinning out of control instead of pointing north rumor turned into a cultist hunt, it was great a scramble for each member of the family who was a cultist to hide their book, while the others were ransacking the rooms. One player got very clever and being hidden marked an npcs coat with arcane mark it glowed so to most this was a HORRIBLE thing! The npc was quickly beat down and as that happened a storm kicked up out of nowhere and everyone had to make a reflex save, most failed and got tossed from the boats, the ones still on there tried to grab the wheel, but not knowing what they were doing, managed to crash ship 1 into ship 3. They sank, presumed dead. Ship 2 was having better luck until the first horrifying thing happened, a short gimps of a great old one (just had to), everyone made a fear check and was mesmerized by the sight letting their ship just get tossed about all but 2 characters both from the same player who had been making very good rolls up until this point. One of his characters rolled a nat 20 meaning they could keep focused and act the other one rolled a nat 1 failing the fear check and going to a horror check his check resulted in him loosing grip with reality and going into a primal rage, this caused him to jump over board and try to attack the great old one. his other character tried to save him and both were swept out to sea. separation success!

The Abbey:
After the separation I had everyone roll a D3 to see what character they would be starting the game with, with the promise of being able to find the others later. They all woke up on a beach and were lucky to find their starting equipment being weapon, ammunition, armor, but no food or water. They spotted an Abbey up on a cliff which none found odd even though I told them where they were going was uninhabited with no buildings, so blindly they walked up thinking their family members would be there. they were able to find tracks but when the tracks entered the front gate of the Abbey they all split into different directions. (I had figured I would have to coax them into splitting up with a lot of logic since no one wants to split the party but....) They didn't even once question the action and split up into groups of 2, 3, and 1 alone, and went in different directions. (some times the party does what you want?) so now I had 4 groups to work with. they rolled initiative to see who I spent time with first and things played out.

the front door:
the group of two going into the front door consisted of a human, ranged class I called the adventurer, and a halfling cultist butler. they were searching the halls, the butler for his kids, and the adventurer for his sister and friend, they came into a large room with a bunch of barrels, opening one up it was filled with a horrible stench that caused them to be sick, looking inside the thing making the stench was an odd red and blue ball of stuff, they couldn't figure out what it was, like string but soaking wet and dripping an odd red liquid, as they tried to examine it the center split showing a huge eye, (they eye cast a fear aura and each had to make a saving throw, it was a weak creature but the butler failed and had to run away) the adventurer followed the butler into the full nest of these things and they opened up fire with shot guns as they continued to run the butler under the effects of a fear aura the adventurer just scared.

The door on the left:
the next group of 2 consisted of another adventurer and cultist team were searching one of the doors to the left, as they walked down the halls they saw that all the torches were lit but the cobwebs and dust was piling up, this was odd, odder still was the room they found themselves in after, ringed around by suits of full-plate armor it had a central table with 18 chairs around it, it was set as if for dinner but every plate was covered in dust and webbing, the only thing that looks like it had been touched were the candles still burning, dripping their wax on the fine table but seeming to have been replaced recently, they searched around the room for a while then found a suit of armor that was walking around, thinking they had found a guard they questioned it. "what are you doing here" it asked, they explained they needed to find their families, the adventurer his two wives, and the cultist his two adopted brothers. The armor didn't care and ordered them out, the cultist ran for the door and made it out, the adventurer tried to talk more and was attacked, he then turned for the door but it was too late, another suit of armor had moved to the door blocking his way, he shot it with his two pistols knocking the helmet off and showing that there was nothing underneath. Seeing this from outside the cultist threw caution to the wind and cast a spell shrinking the armor, inside the adventurer didn't see who or what cast the spell but he did see the spell take effect. Seeing a headless empty armor attacking him was one thing seeing MAGIC in action he had to make a fear check. He is now fully frightened and has to run away.

The fancy door:
I described one door on the right as being very fancy, three people took the bait on this one, they looked around a few rooms finding nothing but empty space until they found a stair case leading downstairs, again all torches lit in the Abbey, down the steps they heard a little girl crying off in the distance, though none of them had any kids in their family they figured this could lead them to some clues and rushed off besides its a kid. finding a large room they see the little girl on her knees, hunched over, her face buried in her hands crying as her brown hair cascaded down to cover her face. They didn't look at anything else and went up putting their hands on her shoulders to console the poor child, at the faintest touch she fell over, the crying stopped as the clatter of bones on stone echoed around the room and the skull of a child looked blankly up at them out of empty sockets, now rolling perception they see the room is filled with bodies in different forms of decay but most old and rotted to nothing but bones, rats scurry here and there, and a few snakes have made homes in the skulls. one player an inspector takes out his gun and just starts shooting randomly screaming, I figured I didn't need a roll for him since he was fully in the scene, the brawler tried to calm him as the scientist heard scraping of stone on stone, (this was the player who wanted more money)he rushed out the door that closed behind him sealing the others inside, he then took out an admanti drill and said he was dismantling the wall, I told him things had shifted oddly and it didn't look like the wall he had seen coming in but he kept at it so two hours later he finds a hall to his left and finds out he had been tunneling into one of the load bearing walls and his friends are not there, he has moved without moving it seems and the crying started up again, he followed it with his shot gun ready. but not before pocketing the sconces for a bit of selling later.

The door on the right:
the last player a brawler took a door all by himself on the right of the building and found a store room for wine finely aged and tasty, then he found the store room for potatoes, carrots, and other vegetables and he had a short snack before moving on and finding the main dining room where a lavish meal has been set for any who want it complete with two full turkeys and all the fixings, he made himself a nice sandwich and then went off to find the others, going down a hall he finds the scientist who was tunneling now on the first floor again somehow without having gone up any steps. the brawler brings him back to the room and offers him food but all he does is take a turkey leg and leave to find the others examining it with fear and suspicion. (a few players are giving me grief for giving this player the nicest set of rooms but I ran out of time for the night, he is actually in the worst room he can be in but has made his saves so far and can enjoy it)

and that was the first night so far, hope you enjoy and again please comment! If I spelled anything wrong I'm sorry. I'm dyslexic and spell phonetically.


since everyone was so kind in offering advice on how to run a horror game right on my other post I thought I would post my game as it goes on and see what you all think of it, again if I shouldn't do this tell me and Ill delete it but until then hope you enjoy and please feel free to comment :)


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3.5 Loyalist wrote:
Haladir wrote:
Check out the D&D 3.5 book Heroes of Horror. While I'm not a fan of some of the mechanical stuff they include (e.g. the "taint" rules), it does have a whole lot of excellent advice on running a horror-focused fantasy game.
Yeah, taint is a bit dodgy (and lo there were many taint jokes). No one likes their character to be disfigured for just entering the dungeon area.

yes I had a DM attempt the taint rules and when he was describing it he mentioned the new spell we could add at 3rd level "Remove taint" we spent the next hour or so coming up with jokes and little mimes for that spell, situations, and puns. I'm not sure when it became too much for the DM I just remember looking up and he had left.


EWHM wrote:

Yeah I'd probably make zombies something like this:

St 12 Dx 8 Damage d6+1 Mv 20 HP+12
Not staggered like the typical zombie but still slower than normal.
Can do a double move but can not run.
DR 10/holy or magic
Disease effect, as zombie rot in the beastiary, but with accelerated onset (checks are per hour rather than per day and no number of checks is sufficient to cure the disease--magical cures only), only checked if target reduced to half hit points or less.

So pretty hard to deal with using guns, assuming that we rate a really good rifle at 2d6 (like a greatsword), most rifles at d10, and most pistols at d6 or d8. You can full attack with most modern firearms and reload with a move action. If you've got a rapid reload feat, you can do it as a free action.

you might want to check out amethyst it goes well with pathfinder and has some fun rules regarding magic and gun interaction


EWHM wrote:

Faylon,

I'd probably actually give them 3 or 4, not just one extra character. So a character might be an engineer, with a wife, an old Army buddy, and two teenaged kids. They'd also have some less closely affiliated NPCs that they gave a damn about. I'd probably set it in an alternate America, so there'd be tons of guns and lots of vehicles. There'd be a military response obviously (The M1A2, for instance, has hardness 30 on the front with a 10d6 main armament---that's d20 modern if I recollect). Stuff like nuclear weapons, which will probably get used, would be treated like ritual sorcery over a broad area. There might even be nukes used not so much to kill the undead or demons but rather to preemptively kill potential carriers.

interesting idea


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I thank you all for your help, I have devoted the day to rewriting my game idea, looking over everything presented here, and it is coming together very well, now the only thing I have to work on is class restrictions, time frame, and back story for races, I figure humans, elves, half elves, and half orcs, maybe add in halflings but for the races that are not human I want to give them some kind of stigma when it comes to dealing with the more prevalent race ie humans and halflings, such as orcs I have figured out, a full blooded orc will be almost baseline animal intelligence so breeding with one is looked upon by civilized society as just wrong, any suggestions for elves?


EWHM wrote:

One scenario that's been clawing at the inside of my skull for a while is this one:

Modern technology---set on an alternate Earth very very close to our own in arrangement, culture, etc, probably somewhere 1950-2000.
Players all start as 3rd level experts with a pretty generous stat array, probably 16, 16, 14, 12, 12, 10. They also get several tightly affiliated NPCs with somewhat less generous arrays, probably 14, 14, 12, 12, 10, 10--these NPCs are things like spouses, children, best friends, etc. They may be 2nd level experts, one may be a 2nd level warrior.

The premise is that the alignment of the stars suppressing magic on this world has shifted (think Shadowrun--Earthdawn) to allow a lot more magic. However it has also shifted in a profoundly negative direction---negative as in the negative material plane, undead, and so forth. The undead won't be constrained by the usual gentleman's agreement, and the demon prince of the undead wants to turn the world into his private playground. PCs will be able to replace one npc class level with a pc class level any time they advance, in addition to gaining a level. Mortality is expected to be very high. Affiliated NPCs can be used to replace fallen PCs, and will have their stats upgraded with the PC template. Getting any sort of magic will be pretty tricky, probably mostly self-researched (Players may find that some really old magical tomes actually work if the mana level is high enough). Damage reduction values, AC, and defenses on a lot of monsters and undead are going to be increased while reducing their damage output somewhat to give a bit more of a horror feel. CR and such things are tossed out the window. The miniseries could end by the conjunction ending, by some sort of planar seal being effected, by total extermination, or a number of other ways.

very interesting sounds like something I wouldn't mind playing in, I like the twist of giving them pretty much a second character, and for the two above this I have all said books almost everything from 3.5 including THE book of evil.


3.5 Loyalist wrote:
Mike Franke wrote:

I have run a few horror campaigns/games and I think the following are useful:

1. atmosphere: take more time with descriptions, especially what the PC's get from their senses. Sight is great but sound and taste and touch are important for horror. It is cold and clammy, there is water driping or wind screaming, etc.

2. Horror is about vulnerability. Fight hard to make the PC's feel vulnerable. Throw out the idea of appropriately leveled encounters. Make the PC's run early on in the campaign. The PC's need to feel like they could die at any minute. Without fear of death there can be no horror.

3. Play up the PC's limitations. Take away things they take for granted.

a. The PC's are used to healing frequently. Create profane areas where positive energy is greatly reduced. They cast cure critical and get ...1d8 healing...they chanel positive energy and get ...nothing...They try to turn undead and nada ..etc.

b. limit their senses ... darkness that can't be seen through plus creatures with life sense or tremor sense, etc. can be terrifying. The key is make the PC's feel vulnerable!

c. level draining, abilty draing etc. are great to make PC's afraid especially at low to mid levels.

d. Give them people to protect. This makes them feel heroic but also limits their options. I call these people dead weight.

4. Create effects that are creepy but don't necessarily affect mechanics. A PC's hair starts falling out. Don't expain why. Weird fungus begins to grow on a PC's skin. No real effect ... for now...etc. A PC just can't get enough raw meat, etc. Remove disease works or doesn't...your choice, or perhaps the weird stuff just comes back after a time.

Remember, horror is about fear and all powerfull PC's generally aren't afraid. Make them afraid...and then let them overcome it and be heros!

Good advice, but I would suggest run a low or near no magic game (at least for the players). If they can blast it, it won't be horror. If they have to flee...

so what would you suggest for classes?


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Hama wrote:
Faylon fang wrote:
yes I love the NPC classes and would love doing a game with them but I know my group they were angry when I said no gunslinger lol
They got angry over that? Very mature people you game with there...

lol they are mostly teens and new to the game, you know how it is you hear a new game is starting you decide to show up and try it first time ever, you have spent the last two weeks looking up classes and decide "hey this one looks cool" learn all about it then get there and find out 4 others have decided to play the same thing, you talk it over, decide to be a team and then the DM shows up with the class restrictions and that class is on the list. Its disappointing


MrSin wrote:
Faylon fang wrote:
yes I love the NPC classes and would love doing a game with them but I know my group they were angry when I said no gunslinger lol
You may want to run another game. Considered it?

well I don't plan on npc classes for this game.


Digitalelf wrote:

I'd add that you never refer to or describe monsters by their name in the books...

For example, when describing an encounter with hobgoblins:

2nd edition AD&D Monstrous Compendium Ravenloft Appendix wrote:
Each of these foul-looking creatures towers above even the tallest member of your band. Although humanoid, these brutes are clearly not men. Their skin is dark and mottled, and their cold eyes gleam with barely-restrained bloodlust. The taunt muscles of their hulking bodies ripple as they move toward you...

As for starting level, I usually just have characters start at 1st level, unless I am running a specific one-shot that requires a higher level...

Something that I have always wanted to try with a horror themed PF game is to have the players roll up characters using only the NPC classes (and letting them multi-class into the PC classes later on during the campaign)...

yes I love the NPC classes and would love doing a game with them but I know my group they were angry when I said no gunslinger lol


Mike Franke wrote:

1. You can make the people family or friends, or church leaders, or nobles, etc. any connection you think your players might care about...or do it old school and let them know that they will be rewarded with treasure or xp for every person saved or even better penalized for every person not saved.

2. This is one of the great problems with Pathfinder. It is designed for heroic gaming not horror. The whole idea that encounters will be appropriately balanced is anathema to a good horror game. Try talking to your players and expalining to them that some encounters will not be balanced and that they will need to play smart. If that does not work you may need to beat it out of them aka let them die a few times. If this still does not work maybe horror is not for them.

Perhaps an opening TPK with the party saved by a traveling priest or some such. This NPC can then deliver your message for you. I know many people don't like this approach but your players need to understand that the world is dangerous. The concept of heros get dead around here is important for horror.

hmmm.... something to think about, again thank you for the help, you have some very good ideas.

any suggestions on starting level, or class restrictions?


Mike Franke wrote:

I have run a few horror campaigns/games and I think the following are useful:

1. atmosphere: take more time with descriptions, especially what the PC's get from their senses. Sight is great but sound and taste and touch are important for horror. It is cold and clammy, there is water driping or wind screaming, etc.

2. Horror is about vulnerability. Fight hard to make the PC's feel vulnerable. Throw out the idea of appropriately leveled encounters. Make the PC's run early on in the campaign. The PC's need to feel like they could die at any minute. Without fear of death there can be no horror.

3. Play up the PC's limitations. Take away things they take for granted.

a. The PC's are used to healing frequently. Create profane areas where positive energy is greatly reduced. They cast cure critical and get ...1d8 healing...they chanel positive energy and get ...nothing...They try to turn undead and nada ..etc.

b. limit their senses ... darkness that can't be seen through plus creatures with life sense or tremor sense, etc. can be terrifying. The key is make the PC's feel vulnerable!

c. level draining, abilty draing etc. are great to make PC's afraid especially at low to mid levels.

d. Give them people to protect. This makes them feel heroic but also limits their options. I call these people dead weight.

4. Create effects that are creepy but don't necessarily affect mechanics. A PC's hair starts falling out. Don't expain why. Weird fungus begins to grow on a PC's skin. No real effect ... for now...etc. A PC just can't get enough raw meat, etc. Remove disease works or doesn't...your choice, or perhaps the weird stuff just comes back after a time.

Remember, horror is about fear and all powerfull PC's generally aren't afraid. Make them afraid...and then let them overcome it and be heros!

Thank you. I will work on my narative for the atmosphere and really sell it, I like the ideas for vulnerability in fights and cutting down healing to show just how scary the encounter can be, there are just two problems that really I can not figure out how to fix

1. I am currently running a game and gave the group a large group of people to take care of, they are doing it but in the sense of “dear gods get these people away from me” they don’t really care if they make it or not they just know I will frown on it if they outright let them die. So how do you really get the players to CARE about the people.

2. Running away almost never happens in the group I’m with, seriously I could have them lv 1 and fully describe thulium destroying a city and they would run INTO the battle.

I know they would enjoy the change of pace if I really could scare them and then give them a chance, even just a glimmer of hope to fight back, they would feel like hero's but its getting them there?


Hama wrote:

Well, first of all, shock horror translates horribly to tabletop. No things jumping out.

Go for psychology. Tension buildup should be your friend. Mess with their minds.

Everything should be darker, bleaker and more terrible.

And the most important thing don't overdo anything because if you do, it will just become hammy

You should also visit this TVTropes page about horror and read up on horror tropes. Its a lifesaver.

thank you for the link!

I fully agree the jumping out thing doesn't work, that is one reason I am asking for help had a friend dm a game and the whole time he tried to have things just jump out hoping we would be scared, because we were playing in modern after he did this the tenth time I got sensor upgrades so I could just tell him "oh enough I have radar


I am looking for any good advice for starting and running a successful horror game, it is something I have always wanted to try my hand at but I know my group is much more into horror then I am and so are very desensitized to anything I would fine scary in a setting, I have the rules for will saves, I have 3.5 hero’s of horror, Ravenloft, book of evil, book of the dead, and pathfinders rule of fear to pull from but just the general in running it and making my players care about their characters going insane and or dying.
thank you for any help.


this seems like an over powered template the way my friends are interpreting it so I would like some help in understanding it.

we are currently running a template friendly game so the question is this when you become a werewolf and become a cr 2 creature because the entry of the werewolf lists it cr 2 with 2 levels of fighter does the mean you take the cr and adjust it giving the human form the extra levels and forgetting the +1 from the template or is it meant to be a +1 template and thus not extra class levels gained thank you


thank you glad you liked it.


sorry I should have said handle animal since thats what he was using my bad. and it can understand languages it just cant speak


what about handle animal?


I used the straight dcs from the book it is possible. it was just a surprise he stayed alive. and thank you it was a blast


well I posted about a powerful player and talked it out so that was taken care of they got to level 20 and I put them up against the final boss. I was worried they would have trouble but the gnome looked around on his own and found the tarrasque by himself it attacked and almost killed him so he healed himself and talked to it using diplomacy after three turns of talking to it and rolling high enough to beat the dc the little gnome druid almost died twice but managed to make the dc and he made the thing all the way up to helpful. so he now has a tarrasque friend. just want to see what you all think personally I'm impressed he looked at it and said "im going to talk to it."


oh lol sorry.


Anomander wrote:

I must say that your Avatar is also a very handsome looking one.

It always makes me think of the Tiste Andi from the Malazan books by steven erikson.

whos avatar are you talking about? if mine thank you... sorry for being oblivious im tired


I will get the math for later its past 2 here, maybe it was something pulled over my eyes ill have to check.


I personally have never played either, but I have seen both done to the point of broken. from what I can tell you are not wrong but given the right spells, items, and feats an arcane caster can out do any member in the party except the healer. there are spells to help him find traps as well as if not better then a rogue, out shoot the ranger in both accuracy and damage, and go toe to toe with the fighter. I would have to get my hands on the character sheet but its not that hard of a spell list and only about three feats.


thank you all for your advice. First of all I would like to say I did talk to them all and we have come to the conclusion of starting a new game but if any are interested I will answer a few questions. the house rules were simple pathfinder only all classes, core races only, standard rolled stats, and money is based off of profession. I let them sell there services to gain money this got them some cool things and allowed the player to make her own magical items a few items later and taking a level of monk got her an ac above 50 and all stats above 40. I checked the math and yes it is well within the rules to gain stats that high if done right. as for being a new DM I have DMed for only two years my players have played for almost as many years as I have been alive. side note to Ravingdork I am by no means dumb. it is a bit cliche but a good main villain will study and prepare. again thank you all for the help and hope you all have a good day.


well that section of the game is over and done with. everyone had fun and the player came up with something I let slide because it was interesting and funny. shaped the stone into big marbles that tripped the creature charging them. big marbles because it was a gargantuan creature


Please help. one player has figured out within the rules I set to make it almost impossible for me to send anything at the party that is within there level to defeat. if I send a creature or puzzle or group this one player is so powerful the thing wouldn't even be a threat. frankly she doesn't even need the rest of the party. so I have set things up to make it more difficult on her to take her down to the rest of the parties level so to speak. this is upsetting the player. problems are as follows.

wizards ability to teleport out of any danger
intelligence so high character can beat any dc out there for knowledge even more then the bard
and an ac so high I almost need to send a god to be able to hit

my solutions
a cave set up with Forbidance
augmented dcs on spells and what not to make it a challenge
and creatures with very high base attack bonuses.

the complaint. "why are you only targeting me?"
my thoughts is I have to or should I just put my game back down to regular rules and let her cake walk everything?


thank you both very much. my game is today and I'm glad I am not the only one having trouble with this spell seeing how many I had to sift through to just find my question again lol. so now that I know the dimensions there is no way they can make a wall big enough to stop the oncoming attack I will take the added ac into account since I do like creativity.


ok problem is I have a group with two rules lawyers who won't agree on anything Im about ready to take there books away and just tell them my word is law. however Im not that mean. yet. so question to the good people here can shape stone be used to take the stone from a cave and turn it into a wall there by blocking the oncoming attack and making my encounter useless? ps this will severely hurt the party if it works. thank you for your help


I would like the thread http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5e15?Raven-Sun to be removed, please and thank you.


Thank you all for your help. After careful study of each system I find I'm more suited for Darksun. And like the rules found in athas.org except one. The defiling magic. I'm not sure if I should add to the dc like suggested. Go back to 2nd eddition and have it memorizing spells or have it be when they cast spells it does different things and potentialy hurts other players. What are your thoughts and any fun ideas for what defling could do to just make the party hate the wizard


One of my friends made something like this for me and the total price came out to 15,000gp for me because it was use-activated, allowed me to have endless shuriken that I could throw as many times as I was allowed per turn (which at the time was three when spending a ki point)

*edit: I forgot, they were also enchanted with 1d6 fire damage.
Also...I'm not the actual owner of this account, just the girlfriend that is too lazy to log out and in again...


Thank you all for the information. As for what I'm trying to accomplish: to fix my lack of knowledge. When I was discussing my new game idea and mentioned, what I thought was an original idea of having intelligent insectoids, my three veteran players highfived and shouted "Thri Kreen!" sheepishly I had to ask what that was. This led to a long conversation. Then I started talking about the feel of the game and how races interact with eachother mentioning again I thought an original idea of having different races being xenophobic and having them very superstisious of magic. To which I got the question "Wait are we in darksun or Ravenloft?" I've been researching since, but I know those three know far more then I do because they have played since 2nd edition. I like both settings but would be horrible with fear checks. My players are far too decensitized for me to scare them. The struggle of both worlds are appealing, one to stay alive one to stay sane, I'm unsure where to go from here.


I am a DM with but a few games under my belt so I ask the good people of these message boards if I have a good idea or a horrible one. Ravenloft and Darksun. Two very different worlds but with one thing in common. The fearful thrill that runs down every players spine when they hear their character is going there. What I propose is a new world for my players that is a meshing of the two. The limited races but occational wierd outsider showing up of Ravenloft with the slave owning savage and often evil denizens of darksun. an intense fear and hatred of arcane magic. The defiler rules. Outsider ratings, dark powers, limited living lands, and a dying sun that is truly dark giving only low light in mid day. Comments are appreciated. Thank you.