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breithauptclan wrote:

If you were wearing a Bracelet of Dashing you might still benefit from the +1 item bonus to Acrobatics checks (unless that is one of the stats of the polymorph form that you used) because that is a permanent function of the gear. But you wouldn't be able to use the activated ability to gain a +10 bonus to your speed.

I agree up to here.

breithauptclan wrote:

The argument against allowing the Striking runes is because the battle form polymorph spells list out the damage that they deal. And it scales with level already. So adding additional damage dice on top of the already appropriate damage that the form is dealing is quite a bit too much.

Your logic diverges here. Striking runes affect the number of weapon damage dice. Handwraps of Mighty Blows extend weapon damage dice to unarmed attacks not just weapons. But the number of damage dice for an attack is one of the specifics of each battle form spell. So it is not allowed to be changed.

Additional Damage is something else. It would be nice if it was properly defined in the rules but as far as I can tell runes like Flaming and Shocking will work on Handwraps even in wild shape forms.

breithauptclan wrote:

Also it becomes rather strange to calculate. The Striking runes are put on weapons that only deal one die of damage to begin with. What does a Striking rune do when applied to an attack that does 3d6 damage?

Agreed it becomes undefined as they have carefully limited other options to single dice. It would require a GM call if this was the case.

I've been reading up on this in the new player core and here is a read on it that I don't think I've seen before.

Now, Striking rune specifically says increases weapon damage dice from 1 to 2. So anything already doing 2 weapon dice (regardless of if its 2d4 or 3d8) would be unaffected by a striking rune. But, for instance a Deinonychus tail or T-rex Bite would indeed be affected since they are abilities with a single weapon damage die. Of course, as soon as this is heightened, this would no longer apply. I would also say this makes sense, because a T-rex has the deadly d12 trait, which is modifiable by striking runes.

This would also mean that since Speed is an ability instead of a special statistic, it could be modified by items that enhance that.

Just another quick comment to say I am a big fan of all of this and can't wait to grab myself a copy

Can we get a change log of what is being removed and added?

Part of me wonders why they don't follow up with an answer to this question at the end of the day. I know that they don't have all the time in the world to be replying to rules questions, but in the cases where there is no consensus, and threads like this always spiral out of control, it makes me wonder if that same lack of consensus applies to them as well.

At this point, I'm unsure if we'll ever see a response from them on this subject, which is a major feelsbad.

I am glad that we can talk plainly about it and share our personal views and such. But, I really wish there was a "Summon the Devs to save us" button somewhere.

Personally, I'm glad people feel so strongly about the game, and do the research for their perspectives. It makes me appreciate the game that much more. It just stinks when we're not able to come to a consensus.

Absolutely Aw3Som3-117, I've seen so many threads on this with arguing back and forth (angry angry arguing in some cases). After spending an entire week tweeting and retweeting at Devs on twitter with zero response, and even more posts on Reddit and the like, I've sorta hit the wall with the thing and just want an answer once and for all.

Hello!

I spent all last week trying to get an answer on twitter for this question, so I'm going to try one last attempt here.

The question is pretty much this:

Can we get clarification on how abilities that do "Additional Damage" such as:
- Rage Instincts
- Weapon Specialization
- Sneak Attack/Precision Damage
- Elemental Runes
- etc

How would these abilities work with Polymorph Battle forms like Wild Shape, Animal Form, Dragon Shape, etc? I'm not talking about the special versions from things like the Barbarian feat that clarifies you can use your own damage, and the like, but from a default perspective?

Mark Seifter clarified Here that these effects are not Damage Bonuses, but in fact additional damage. Which leaves them in a grey area when it comes to calculating damage.

If we can get official Paizo response to this, you'll not only resolve dozens of threads of concerns (whichever way it lands), but I will also donate 20 bucks to the charity Game to Grow that Paizo had on their blog last week.

Since its may the 4th, I'll end with "Help us Devs, you're our only hope"

Just making it last longer is an option, especially if it only works on the eidolon. I dont even know if it would stack with the Bard's inspire now that I think about it, which makes it even worse.

So, having it last 2 rounds (much like how the Magus' spell strike works) would be pretty nice.

I just think it'd be nice to have something that makes it more 'feel good' than just throwing an action into the grinder every round.

Spellcasting as a summoner is very limited at the moment, but I think they could really benefit from some additional options that focus on the bond between summoner and magical creature.

The biggest complaint I've had so far is that casting spells in combat usually means you lose out on combat actions for the eidolon, which lets you drag behind, and means usually you dont necessarily get to boost eidolon.

Because of that, I think along the same line as Act Together with tandem action, there should be an ability to cast buff spells in a shorter length of time, and/or prolong the use of that boost/reinforce cantrip just like a Bard can.

Issue 1: Casting Buffs is too punishing
Before a combat, such as the start of the day, etc, you could preemptively 'store' a spell inside of your eidolon and pre-cast it. Then, during combat (or even while rolling initiative with a penalty to your roll), you could take an action to 'call forth' the buff spell with a single action.

So, at the start of a day, the beast eidolon summoner decides he wants to cast barkskin on his pet for later. So, during his morning routine, or a 10 minute break, he stores the spell. Then, during combat, he uses an action to finish the cast on his pet.

To make better use of the summoner's primary stat, perhaps you can store a number of spells in your eidolon equal to your CHA mod (which could in theory allow for you to store spells from wands/staves/etc)
-----
Issue 2: Boost Eidolon... boost eidolon boost...
Bards have a similar issue with their inspire courage. But, they can use lingering song as a focus power. I think Summoners need the same thing, but just like I think lingering song is a crutch because it costs too much (focus and roll with chance of failure), I think it should cost a focus, to last X rounds, and not get replaced by reinforce, or vice versa.

Example: Summoner casts Boost and spends a focus point to allow it to linger. This allows it to last for 1 minute (or 3 rounds, etc), and remains in effect even if someone uses Reinforce Eidolon instead. Alternatively, they could do the same for reinforce, and then continue to use Boost normally.

This is true, but the problem is that usually that damage from weakness is a fixed amount and doesnt go up over time, so assuming that 1 becomes 6 or 11 damage (in best case scenarios), you can effectively get that bonus damage 1 time a round, vs the breath weapon, which can hit multiple targets for 1d6 (and potentially extra from weakness), which then goes up to 2d6, 3... etc. The compounding effect of the damage dice going up, and the potential for weaknesses (and resistance I guess) sorta balances out when you factor in the 1d4 recharge.

But that 6 or 11 never changes, and most of the time it is just 1 damage. It should go up over time at the very least. Perhaps 1 per damage die or go up at the rate of barbarian damage increases.

At least its better than the beast which only gets a cool thing at lv 17, which nobody will ever see in normal gameplay.

From what I can see, the Dragon really seems to be the best option for damage output. It having breath weapon opens up a ton of utility and extra damage the other types can't bring to the table. Otherwise, Ghost is probably runner up with a reaction for an extra attack

That is fair. I think it still feels like a feat tax to use a shuriken, when you should be able to do that by default. It feels overly nit-picky.

I will throw the new APG shooting star stance into the hat. It has the exact same verbiage as Monastic Weaponry (and has it as a prerequisite), but a Shuriken is already a monk weapon, so Monastic Weaponry should already apply. But now its a Stance and an extra feat for no value.

For the most part, the Changes are looking great. Can't wait to use them.

However, I still can't help but feel the Cleric got beat on hard with the nerf to channel energy. Thats a huge hit that forces them to be way more MAD than before. Not a fan of this direction at all.

I'd rather re-add Bolstering to out of combat healing than nerf them that hard. Healing is super important in combat, and there are plenty of better ways to solve the out of combat healing dilemma.

Like many are saying, I like the removal of the resonance pool and turning it into ambiguous slots for items.

I also like the concept of Focus points, but combining it with Spell points is just a bad plan, and even more so combining it with Charisma.

You'd instead be better off combining Hero Points into Focus Points and having this small pool become a more flexible Hero Point system that allows you to juice your items and actions a bit extra.

This way you don't have to re-balance all the class abilities and stuff, nor items, and can make them that 'little bit extra' that GMs can choose to use to pump the game's excitement a bit by feeding out to the players.

It also makes earning them by doing cool stuff more engaging.

Will we be able to get copies of the Iconics that you featured in the playtest games?

If I want to pre-order the Jungles of Despair Case and this, when will this be available?

Top 5 in no particular order:

1. Monk of the Four Winds (Elemental Fist is a vital versatility option for monks to have flavor beyond stunning fist)

2. Crossblooded Sorcerer (Gives everyone more customization both in abilities and backstory/heritage.)

3. Swarm Master Druid (Anything that gives Druids more unique options out of the gate makes them that much more interesting. It also allows for smaller creatures to be more viable if people don't want hulking beasts following them around all the time.)

4. Winged Marauder Alchemist (Animal companions for other classes is always good, and this allows alchemists to fill a ranged niche easier. Make it for all races and give us some better bird options for both medium and small characters)

5. Incarnate Paladin (Was never in Pathfinder specifically, but you guys made it in the August 2003 issue of Dragon Magazine pg 53. It was a true neutral paladin of the balance of nature/elements and it was really cool flavor.)

Little sad the water elemental is gone, that was going to be the main reason I was getting this pack. Will it appear elsewhere later?