Search Posts
Inspired by this thread: Any stories to share about passing notes at the table? Mine involves a wizard hanging back too far from the party in a lich's sanctum, me asking to see all the character sheets and then writing "You are dominated." on the wizard's.
Thoughts on the latest article on "Bounded Accuracy". I like the idea that low-level challenges remain somewhat challenging, and that low-level characters can take on more difficult challenges through teamwork.
I don't like the implication of hit point and damage bloat. I'm also wondering if there is a sort of elegance to the idea, in that if all AC/DC are the same, can a DM eyeball a scenario by just totalling up each sides hit points and damage to see which side is strongest? Eg. Giants vs. Town: How many guards does it take to barely equal the giants? Your thoughts?
I'd like some opinion on the following houserule I've been developing to smooth out the pace of adventures and deal with some other issues. The brainstorm I had recently was rather than trying to "fix" the 15 minute adventuring day, why not embrace it? Let characters rest, but don't break the verisimilitude by fast-forwarding the timeframe each day. Any feedback is welcome, but specifically feedback about the details of the system. Keep the following points in mind: 1) The first goal is to allow characters to continue adventuring without overpowering any single class or ability. 2) The second goal is to maintain the 3.X sensibility that the PCs should still have a requirement for magic to heal. 3) Finally, from the perspective of world-building, this rule should not allow for any strange cases of exploitation (eg. no escaping from a jail cell with 0th-level spells). THE SHORT REST A short rest is 10 minutes of uninterrupted light activity. When starting a short rest (or combined short rests), the character must specify from what they are recovering. The possible choices are: class features, spells, hit-points, or fatigue. A character may combine short rests (see below, or to recover multiple choices) but must wait at least 1 hour before taking another short rest, or extended 8 hour rest. Class Feature Recovery Any single class feature or feat with limited uses per day can be recovered with a 10-minute rest. The character must specify which feature is being recovered before resting. A character can recover multiple class features or feats by combining short rests. Spell Recovery A spellcaster can use a short rest to recover one spell (or spell slot for spontaneous casters). This spell must have a level equal to the number of combined short rests used. Eg. a 1st-level spell requires one short rest, or 10 minutes, to recover. A 3rd-level spell requires three combined short rests, or 30 minutes, to recover. The character must declare which spell or spell slot is being recovered before starting the rest. Hit-Point Recovery A character can use a short rest to recover lethal damage equal to their level + Con modifier. A DC 20 Heal check and one use of a healer's kit doubles this amount. This also restores non-lethal damage of an equal amount. Multiple combined short rests do not stack. Fatigue/Fear A short rest allows a character to recover from fatigue. A character cannot recover from exhaustion with a short rest. EXTRAS Any ideas for feats that could take advantage of this system? Another thing I am now thinking about is more powerful fighter feats that would require a short rest to recover.
Before you read on, a caveat: this does not apply to Vancian spellcasting. Spells should be powerful and rare, and I have other changes in place to reflect this. I've been bandying about the idea of changing the mechanics of any class ability that is based on "daily uses". Basically, any ability that is called out as 1/day in the class description is instead "At-will". In cases where the ability has a duration, the maximum time it can be maintained varies, but after exceeding the maximum time Constitution checks are needed to maintain the effect. Abilities with durations cannot be activated when fatigued. Finally, this borrows the concept of a "short rest". This is 1 hour of low-impact activity (no combat or spellcasting). Barbarian - Rage: Maximum duration is 1 minute. Must have a short rest to recover. Bard - Bardic Music: No other changes, the bard is already using actions to maintain the ability. Maximum duration is 1 hour (not perfect, but easy to remember). No rest to recover unless fatigued. Cleric - Turn/Rebuke Undead: Each time the ability is used, effective cleric level is reduced by 1 (only for turn checks) until a short rest. Druid - Wild Shape: X/day indicates how many forms the druid knows. Can change between those forms and normal form any number of times, unlimited duration. Monk - Stunning Fist: Each time ability is used, reduce effective character level by 1 (before dividing by half) to determine save DC, until a short rest. Paladin - Smite Evil: Standard attack to use. If the paladin smites an opponent that is not evil, they lose this ability until they can take a short rest (to pray). Any Other Ability: Reduce effective level by 1 until a short rest. Some abilities (like a ninja's invisibility are not appropriate for this system. For example, in that case, it is probably best to simply give ninjas a lesser form of Hide in Plain Sight at 1st level.
Wow. Meet David. That short "trailer" was better than some full-length Sci-Fi. Michael Fassbender has some amazing little acting touches that really touch my neo-Luddite nerve. Fantastic work, and now I'm super-stoked for the movie.
I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere, but it bears repeating. If you like Hulk, Planet Hulk, Conan, sci-fi, or just Marvel in general then this looks to be a strong outing. Budget looks bigger and seems to capture scenes right out of the books. Hopefully it is long enough to tell all the stories from the series.
Will this fix the battlefield, perhaps not entirely, but my group feels it is a step in the right direction. Feel free to comment or criticize. 1) Spellcasting:
2) Combat: So what do you think? Is it too much at once?
Post ideas here for the all-new Fishmonger core class. A few things to keep in mind:
Thought I would post this here as a handy reference for potential GMs of this drow-themed campaign. As drow have spell resistance as a humanoid race, take note of the following: A creature with spell resistance must lower their spell resistance as a standard action in order to accept a spell cast onto them. Raising the resistance again is an automatic free action at the start of the next turn. See here. A creature casting a spell targetted on themselves is not subject to these rules. See here. Thus, a drow spellcaster may cast spells on themselves freely. Any spellcaster casting a spell on a drow (even a drow cleric casting a healing spell) must roll against spell resistance unless the target has lower their spell resistance. Side Note: Does this further demean the use of healing spells by drow?
These classes follow my Pathfinder philosophy that a prestige class should allow the combination of two or more classes (like the mystic theurge) and allow unique combinations of abilities. Classes such as the dragon disciple are discouraged as they can be accomplished by tinkering with core class features. Feel free to comment, or post your own ideas or requests! Rage Mage The rage mage combines spellcasting with the rage ability, which normally does not permit such. In addition, the class has several unique features to offer such multiclass characters.
Spoiler: Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +5, rage ability, must be able to cast 2nd level arcane or divine spells. HD: d8
Class Features
Rage Magic (Ex)
Battlecaster (Ex)
In addition, this ability grants the Eschew Materials feat as a bonus feat if he does not already possess it. Spellcasting
Spellpower Might (Su)
Rage Power (Ex)
Ragepower Magic (Su)
Arcane/Divine Fury (Su)
These rules replace the standard Weapon and Armor Proficiency rules. They give every character more customization in their armament, and allow a martial character to improve upon their ability in multiple weapons without expending valuable feats. The Weapon Focus chain, Improved Critical, and Critical Focus feats are no longer subsumed into these rules. Fighter class abilities still function with these rules. Basic Rules:
Spoiler:
First Level Characters Classes with the following core proficiencies gain the appropriate number of points when a character is first level (1HD). Limited List: 0+Int (Monk, Wizard)
No Armor: +0
A 1st level fighter with Int 14 gains 16 points. A racial ability granting weapon or armor proficiency, instead grants a +1 bonus to that weapon or armor rank(s). If the above fighter was an orc, she would receive +1 slots to both falchion and greataxe and all orc weapons. Higher Level Characters A character gains 1 proficiency point for every even number of their BAB.A character cannot raise a proficiency higher than 1/2 their BAB (rounded down) plus 1 (bonus ranks as above do not count against this limit). Weapon Proficiency Ranks:
Spoiler:
There are seven ranks of weapon proficiency: 0 ranks - Untrained:
1 rank - Proficient:
2 ranks - Focused:
3 ranks - Specialized:
4 ranks - Master:
5 ranks - Grand Master:
6 ranks - Paragon:
Armor Proficiency:
Spoiler: There are seven ranks of armor proficiency: 0 ranks - Untrained:
1 rank - Proficient:
2 ranks - Focused:
3 ranks - Specialized:
4 ranks - Master:
5 ranks - Grand Master:
6 ranks - Paragon:
Here's a warlock class I cooked up. This is very Alpha phase, so be critical (and add options if needed)! Warlock
Class Skills: Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana, religion, planes), Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth Class Features:
Spoiler:
1 Battle caster, ritual magic +1, planar bond.
Spellcasting: Spoiler:
The warlock gains spells per day as a bard. The warlock can cast spells drawn from the wizard/sorcerer spell list. The warlock knows all spells from the list for each level of spells he can cast. A warlock does not need to prepare spells, but insteads casts spontaneously as a sorcerer does. A warlock must select one prohibited school at 1st level. The warlock does not know and cannot cast spells or use magic items for spells of this school. They may not choose conjuration as a prohibited school. In all other regards a warlock is treated as a sorcerer. Battle Caster (Ex) Spoiler:
Starting at 1st level the warlock can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor with no chance of arcane spell failure. Only spells granted from the warlock class can be cast in this manner. At 5th level the warlock can cast his arcane spells while wearing medium armor. Ritual Magic (Su) Spoiler:
Beginning at first level, the warlock can partake in ritual magic. This grants the warlock and any other arcane spellcaster he chooses within 30ft. a +1 bonus to their caster level and to Spellcraft checks. In addition, 1/day (per bonus granted by ritual magic) while using ritual magic, if the warlock sacrifices a number of hit points equal to 5 times the spell level, the warlock can apply the effect of any metamagic feat he knows without increasing the spells level or casting time. Activating ritual magic is a move action, and lasts until the warlock ceases to use a move action to maintain the effect. At 7th level the bonus granted by ritual magic increases to +2. 1/day (per bonus granted by ritual magic) the warlock can now choose to inflict 1 point of Con damage to himself to increase the save DC of his spell by bonus granted by his ritual magic. At 13th level the bonus increases to +3. 1/day (per bonus granted by ritual magic) the warlock can use a single full-round action in place of a move action. Any spells cast before the start of the warlocks next turn, by creatures affected by his ritual magic, do not count against the casters normal daily allotment of spells. At 19th level the bonus increases to +4. 1/day (per bonus granted by ritual magic) the warlock can sacrifice two spell slots during the casting of a single spell to overcome a single immunity of a single target creature or creature in the area of effect of his spell. Planar Bond (Su) Spoiler:
At first level the warlock begins his long association with the creatures of the lower planes. A warlock may not willingly associate with creatures of good alignment. In addition, the warlock must make contact with an evil outsider or organization at least once per week. If he fails to do so, the warlock loses all his class abilities except weapon and armor proficiencies and his ability to cast spells. An atonement spell is necessary to restore these abilities. Fiendish Servant (Su) Spoiler:
At 3rd level, the warlock is granted a familiar by his associates in the lower planes. He may select a creature from the wizard familiar list and apply the fiendish template, or may select an imp or quasit. This ability otherwise functions as the wizard familiar. Lineage (Su) Spoiler:
At 2nd level the warlock begins to manifest his lineage in physical form. He must select a lineage from those outlined below. At 6th level he gains a physical manifestation. At 10th level his lineage improves. At 14th level his physical manifestation improves. The caster level for all spell-like abilities is the warlock level. The save DC is 10 + 1/2 warlock level + Cha modifier. Demonic (CE): Warlock gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat The warlock may cast enlarge person 1/day as a spell-like ability.
Spell Circle (Ex) Spoiler:
At 4th level the warlock can create a summoning circle usable 1/day. Doing so requires 10 minutes of time and normal spell components. The warlock can use this circle to extend the duration of any summoning spell targeted in the circle to 24 hours. Pact (Su) Spoiler:
At 8th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the warlock gains knowledge of a pact. This is an ability useful to him in his pursuits and dealings with fiends. The warlock may select a pact from the list below: Absorb Spell: If the warlock is standing in the circle when a spell is targeted on him by another creature, the warlock is unaffected by the spell and instead gains a spell slot of equal value. This spell slot must be used within 24 hours or it disappears. Bind Fiend: Any planar binding spell cast by the warlock is treated as being affected by an inward magic circle against evil spell. In addition, the DC to escape the binding is increased by 4. Commune with Fiends: The warlock can use an active summoning circle to communicate with a fiend of his lineage. Not only does this fulfill his Planar Bond, but the warlock may also ask of the fiends a single question with a yes/no answer. This functions as a commune with diety spell. Fiendish Unity: The warlock may call upon his fiendish allies to fortify him. He gains DR 5/good for 24 hours. Fortify Spell: The warlock may use the circle to enhance any spell with a target of self. If the warlock casts such a spell while standing within the circle, the duration of the spell is increased to 24 hours. Sacrifice: The warlock can gain benefits from the death of a good creature within the circle. If the warlock is within 30ft. when this death occurs, he gains temporary hit points equal to his level which last for 24 hours or until lost.
Foe of Good (Su) Spoiler:
At 9th level and 17th level the warlock gains a special ability when combating good foes, selected from the following: Final Death: Any good outsider slain by warlock must make a Will save (DC 10 + Warlock's level) or be permanently destroyed. Bane of Good: The warlock gains +2 weapon damage against any creature with the good subtype, including creatures with a good aura. Corrupt Soul: The warlock gains the ability to detect good at will, and an evil aura. The warlock's alignment becomes evil. This functions as the cleric ability. Resist Temptation: The warlock gains a +4 bonus to saving throws against the special abilities, spell-like abilities or spells of creatures with the good subtype.
Inverse Ritual (Su) Spoiler:
At 10th level the warlock can choose to inverse his ritual magic. Each round he activates or maintains ritual magic, he can choose to apply his bonus instead as a penalty to the caster level and spellcraft checks of any spellcasters within 30 feet. He cannot use this ability in conjunction with his other ritual magic abilities. Final Bond (Ex) Spoiler: The warlocks type changes to outsider and he gains any subtypes of his chosen lineage. He gains the following abilities based on his lineage: Demonic: The warlock gains immunity to fire and electricity and resistance to acid 10 and cold 10, and is wreathed in flames dealing 6d6 damage on contact. The warlock gains permanent true seeing.
Rakshasa: The warlock gains SR of 30.
Rather than post around the various PbP boards, I'm giving everybody a heads up in one place. After relaxing and enjoying the holidays, I am adjusting to a new lifestyle and job over the coming weeks. I'm still on the boards, but will be less frequent during weekdays (at least until the summer). This may affect my ability to participate in some PbP, if you DM such a game and want to work out something here, this is the best place to do so as I won't be able to peruse everything. I will continue to run my Red Hand of Doom campaign, which will restart by next week.
Please cancel my current subscriptions to: 1) Pathfinder Chronicles
This is partly an economic reason, but in order to help Paizo out, here is some feedback for each above that also influenced my decision: 1) I'm more willing to pick and choose titles from this subscription as needed. 2) I haven't had the time to have a campaign in Golarion requiring this information...yet. 3) I have a huge backlog, so more titles are just sitting on the shelf. Also, to clarify, I want to KEEP my Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription. I love them.
So in conjunction with the vocabulary thread, this is a thread to discuss spoken language and little oddities that amuse, anger, or confuse. I was watching "Eragon" today, and while Eragon is having a conversation that goes something like this: Dragon: "We are strongest when we are together."
Now, that emphasis brings a totally different connotation to the line. What the actor (and director) should have gone with was "We can't be TOGETHER until I am as strong as you."
The Universalist ability to mimic a metamagic feat X/day without increasing the spell level causes some very disturbing issues, especially at mid-levels of play. For example, in my playtest a Level 11 Wizard can freely use 1/day a maximized disintegrate spell. Not a huge issue? Well, normally this wouldn't be available until 17th level. So a non-optimized wizard blasting monsters with a paltry +10 Fortitude save generally means they take 132 points of damage. It especially is bad for non-Con creatures. Encounters end pretty quickly and it encourages resting to recover this awesome ability. At 19th level you're looking at 3/day maximized anything. I haven't seen it applied to other metamagic, but I am curious: do other people find the elimination of spell level limits creating wonking blips?
So this is my biggest gripe about Pathfinder so far, and I wanted some reaction. I personally am finding the rogue talents too comparable to feats, which means the rogue becomes a fighter with slightly less BAB. Although the fighter got some improvement, it seems the rogue became all sorts of useful with increased sneak attack opportunity and the talents. Now, I do love that I can build an NPC without a prestige class (in my Ruins of Greyhawk game I rebuilt a Thief Acrobat as a much deadlier single-class rogue, with the same abilities). However, unless the feats get a major boost in usefulness I am envisioning the rogue/fighter multiclass continuing to be commonplace.
Okay, so I just got the idea for a delightfully silly, light-hearted play-by-post. Here is the outline: 1) You must have over 1,000 posts to join. 2) I will have final say as the GM, but when I ask, a poster can act as the storyteller, in a nod to Ars Magica. 3) You can use any system, but your character must be (or be based on) your primary posting alias. Please make your character recognizable as you; we will basically be playing our messageboard selves. 4) The rules will be very loose. Interpretation and creativity will prevail. Justification of your actions is the primary way to achieve them. Invisible Castle can be used if you need too. 5) This will be absurd. 6) Post your desire to participate here. I will gauge the demand when determining when to start the game. That's about it. I might come up with more stuff as it occurs to me. 
All those who have been assimilated, report under your new identity and be recognized. Resistance is futile.
I know it is late, but for posterity and the chance Jason has a look, this idea evolved out of a good discussion on this thread. Essentially, fighters gain free weapon and armor enhancements in conjunction with Training, which frees up resources, reduces the need for Ye Olde Huge Magick Shoppes, gives them unique abilities, and ties everything into existing systems. Would something similar to the Paladin's Imbue ability work here? Instead of adding a plus to his attacks with weapon training or armour training, the Fighter could be treated as if his weapon or armour had a certain magic property (such as fortfication) due to his skill making it work as an extraordinary ability. Obviously, the list would have to be careful as I can't think up how flaming could be added like that.I'd rather have a reworking of base assumptions. Fighters need to spend X amount on magic gear, specifically weapons and armor. If they got that stuff for free at certain levels......then they'd be even more dependent on items (magic), and less reliable on their own (as fighters). It's a possible solution, but not one that sits well with me. No, sir; no thanks. That's a bit more of what I had in mind. Even providing a list, a la Favored Enemy, as to what Fighters can add. You can add any ability that is equal to or less than the bonus granted by your armor or weapon training (repectively, and in addition to those bonuses still being conveyed). A weapon or armor enhanced in this way may not exceed the normal limits of total enhancement bonus. For all purposesany qualified weapon or armor is considered to possess the property while wielded by the fighter. A fighter may change their enhancements every time they gain the relevant armor or weapon training. These enhancements can only be applied to mwk armor or weapons (this circumvents the normal rule of applying enhancements only to magic armor and weapons). The List:
Spoiler:
Armor: fortification (+1, +3, +5) slick (+2, +3, +4) silent moves (+2, +3, +4) shadow (+2, +3, +4) invulnerability Shields (if included in armor training)
Weapons:
For example, a 20th level fighter could have +5 heavy fortification full plate (but only pay for the +5) and a +5 wounding rapier of speed (but only pay for the +5). Because these are magical modifiers, they mostly stack with the benefits of the fighters feats. It also gives them more gp resources for other stuff, while allowing them to do cool things with their weapons.
This came up a while back in the Alpha and I promised to repost. Essentially, my group was discussing referring to Channel Energy when I came upon an idea for the elemental domains. The four energy domains (acid=earth, cold=water, electricity=air, fire=fire) currently grant a touch attack that deals elemental damage. In the interests of disclosure, I'm not a fan of this mechanic, but it could stay with no problem. What my group would be keen on is allowing a cleric with one of these domains to Channel Energy as their element. In other words, an Air cleric could unleash a burst of electricity. Like the other channeling, they can leave themselves out of the damage and can use Selective Channeling to omit their allies. Unlike positive/negative channel, it would allow a Reflex save instead of a Will save. It's a minor change, could even be a feat. But something worth doing to provide a bit of flavour to Channel and domains at the same time. Thoughts?
From my Ruins of Greyhawk playtest. With some added inspiration from Red Hand of Doom PbP. Spoiler:
The first battle was against the returned Swordwraiths in the War Wagon. Seeing they had returned and knowing how the battle went, the cleric cast hide from undead which got the party into position, and then started the battle with a positive channel - the CR 7 swordwraiths had a 40% chance to make their saves against a level 9 cleric, which seemed reasonable. The cleric player announced how much more fun the new turning mechanic was after using it in combat and for healing. The battle posed no threat, with only the war wagon dealing damage to the PCs. Overall Result: The channel positive is good. Not too good, but worth using in some situations. Definitely improves the overall ability of the group to continue the adventuring day and allow the cleric to cast something other than cure spells. Job well done! Spoiler:
The dretches stepped back, trying an ineffective scare on the fighter. Then the evil clerics appeared, having cast invisibility on themselves. Stepping up with a 5ft step, 3 clerics (2 CR 4 and 1 CR 8). Both CR 4 clerics hit with their greatswords, having +15 to hit the fighters flat-footed AC, one scoring a critical. The CR 8 cleric had a +20/+15 attack, only hitting once. In one round the fighter lost half his stoneskin and half his hit points - he retreats.
From there the fight becomes one between spellcasters, with the cleric and sorcerer (now active) using their best spells, including cone of cold, to lay waste to the clerics as the fighter engaged the naga. The group was satisfied with this fight, having at last met a decent challenge. I had fun using the CR 8 clerics rebuking to damage the entire party a few times, even though it wasn't the best option. Not often you can yell "Iuz will take your life!" and really mean it. Overall: This was an interesting battle as it involved both evil and good clerics. The evil turning was a treat as a DM, although my negative-channel player in RHoD has had little luck with his damage as of yet (the positive-channeler has saved some bacon though). I am thinking that adding Cha bonus to the damage healed/dealt would be a nice low-level boost to the power. I also fervantly hope that elemental channeling can become an option - the elemental domains should allow the cleric to create an optional burst of elemental energy. As a DM I found the new domains to be a pain for two reasons: 1. It gives a cleric many more special options. This both increases the size of the statblock and creates more rules searching depending on the domain. 2. It creates an odd compatability issue. Although most domain powers match the domain spells in 3.5, they are granted at even levels in PRPG. Meaning a 3rd level character is short one spell from his 3.5 counterpart. Considering this could be something dramatic like invisibility in the above example, that radically changes the tactics available to 3.5 versions of clerics. A final note on domains: several of the domain powers saw little to no use, being slightly underpowered for the action required (in some cases, I ran 8 clerics with the same domains and never used it once). These were, in no particular order: Trickery (copycat), Evil (align weapon). The following domain base powers, on consideration of the PC, appear too useful: Artifice, Evil, Healing, Magic. My biggest concern is that many domain powers are unclear if they allow a saving throw. This is especially true for the Evil and Chaos domain powers, which inflict heavy penalties with a melee touch attack. Spoiler:
Today the brave adventurers left the confines of their refuge bottle only to find themselves in a trap set by the cultists of Iuz.
Facing 5 level 6 clerics (and on round 3 a mohrg) turned into an interesting battle. Several clerics used rebuking, while others healed the damage dealt to party members by such attempts. The party fighter turned the General's (see earlier post) own tactics against his troops by sundering two holy symbols per round. Overall it was a fairly decent fight for 2 level 10 characters. But then the mohrg arrived. As the fighter tried to move to sunder another holy symbol, he incurred an attack of opportunity, which the mohrg used to paralyze him. Rolling a 2 on his save, the party cleric had to use up his remove paralysis to free him. The next turn was the mohrgs, again paralyzing the fighter as he fumbled his save. This fight was relevant for 2 reasons. First it showed that Turn Undead is no longer an instant win for the cleric, which is good. Second, it showed the clerics array of spells becomes much more relevant when they are not healing all the time. This does a good job at balancing the power loss from Turn while providing a more interesting class.
This is a thread for discussions, debates, and brainstorming for presentation in the Compendium Thread. This thread is free game; please use this space to avoid cluttering up the Compendium thread with anything other than presentation.
I'll start off with an example: Combat Maneuvers with Weapons
So feel free to rant here about bad days. This isn't meant to disparage truly bad days, more for those who just had an unexpected setback or frustrating event. So I get out from supply teaching, and my car breaks down. Then when I get home with the tow truck, I realize I left my $80 conducting baton at the school. There's a write off of a day.
Here is an index of tables that readers might find helpful, softcover or pdf! First, a list of Tables by Table Number and Page Number:
Spoiler:
Table Index: Table 2-1: Ability Score Costs, page 5
Tables by Category and Subject:
Spoiler: Table Index: Character Creation and Levels
Classes
Skills
Feats
Equipment
Movement
Combat
Spells
Encounters
Dungeons
Magic Items
This could fall under the "Open Comments" portion, but I felt obligated to mention this now to give Jason time to digest. A good deal of exploits of 3.5 comes from multiclassing combinations that provide serious advantages over single classes (slightly reduced BAB for huge saves and tons of class features? Sold!). I was thinking today about how my original D&D group misinterpreted multiclassing when 3rd Edition came out, when it was a new D&D system. Okay, so here is how our group originally misinterpreted, in a good way, multiclassing when 3rd Edition came out: We never had problems with multiclassing until we started using the rules "the right way". Example: Gorg the 4th Level will be built two ways in each system. First, under the 3.5 rules as a single-class barbarian, second as a 3.5 barbarian/ranger/druid. Then, under my groups "incorrect" rules as a single-class barbarian, and again as a barbarian/ranger/druid. 3.5 Mechanics
Spoiler:
Gorg, Barbarian 4: BAB +4; Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +1; fast movement, illiteracy, uncanny dodge, trap sense +1, rage 2/day. Gorg, Barbarian 2/Ranger 1/Druid 1:
Gorg trades +1 BAB for net +5 saves and a whack of class features, it gets more out of whack with more classes and higher levels. Proposed Pathfinder Mechanics
Spoiler:
Gorg, Barbarian 4: Unchanged from above. Gorg, Barbarian 2/Ranger 1/Druid 1:
Gorg trades +2 BAB for net -2 saves and a whack of class features, adding more classes does not improve his BAB or Saves any faster. I'd love to hear from Jason on the potential for this. Obviously it requires some work recalculating BAB and saves, but it is all based off the highest level class so there is really only one calculation (reduce numbers by the difference between one version and the new version). And given the advances with CMB and Turning subsystems, I do believe that the lingering abuse of Multiclassing could use an overhaul.
Okay, so here is how our group originally misinterpreted, in a good way, multiclassing when 3rd Edition came out: We never had problems with multiclassing until we started using the rules "the right way". Example: Gorg the 4th Level will be built two ways in each system. First, under the 3.5 rules as a single-class barbarian, second as a 3.5 barbarian/ranger/druid. Then, under my groups "incorrect" rules as a single-class barbarian, and again as a barbarian/ranger/druid. 3.5 Mechanics Gorg, Barbarian 4:
Gorg, Barbarian 2/Ranger 1/Druid 1:
Gorg trades +1 BAB for net +5 saves and a whack of class features, it gets more out of whack with more classes and higher levels. Incorrect Mechanics Gorg, Barbarian 4: Unchanged from above. Gorg, Barbarian 2/Ranger 1/Druid 1:
Gorg trades +2 BAB for net -2 saves and a whack of class features, adding more classes does not improve his BAB or Saves any faster. We found this incredibly fair for the single-classed players. And easy to convert - just take the total saves from the highest level class and rebuild the saving throws. I thought of this when reading recent criticisms of 3rd Edition, and I honestly think it goes a long way to preventing certain abuses of the system. Who wants to play a Fighter 2/Duskblade 1/Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Wilder 1/Barbarian 1 when you have a grand total of +2 BAB and Fort +3? There are advantages, but also huge downsides. That is why I like it. Comments?
Not a complaint, but more a question for my own benefit. What is Paizo's policy regarding damaged or worn products. I recently received my copy of "Ghostwalk", and one corner was crushed. I am not dissatisfied, and I realize this is inevitable with long deliveries. I am just curious IF Paizo usually does something or not.
From my Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk playtest thread: Valis: NG male human rog3/ftr7 (at time of death)
Spoiler:
hp 104 Init +2; Senses Perception +20 Languages: Common, Elven, Dwarven, Thieves' Cant AC 30, touch 15, flat-footed 28
Melee +2 adamantine shatterspike +19/+14 (1d8+10/17-20)
SA Sneak attack +2d6, armor training +2, weapon training (heavy blades +1)
Equipment: +2 chain shirt, +2 destana, +2 adamantine heavy shield, +2 adamantine shatterspike, cloak of resistance +3, ring of protection +2, amulet of natural armor +1, lens of detection, belt of strength +4, gloves of dexterity +2 and constitution +2, stone of good luck, statue of the silver raven, mwk composite longbow (+3 Str), 20 arrows, mwk thieves' tools, 50ft. silk rope, rations x5, small mirror, sun rod x5, tindertwig, alchemist's fire x2, crowbar, sledgehammer Keep in mind this is from the Player's sheet, so it may contain errors. Now for the feedback: Spoiler:
Seems to be making his life too easy. Purchasing a +2 shatterspike adamantine longsword and taking Improved Sunder and Defensive Training his PC has +23 to Sunder attempts and a defensive CMB of 33 (along with an AC of 30). With the exception of other fighters of his level, it is very difficult to resist his Sunder attempts unless I ensure NPCs have Defensive Training (and/or Improved Sunder). I mention this here because fighters are most likely to have this strategy available.
If he wants, he wades into battle and Sunders everything, knowing that the cleric's mending spell will fix some of the treasure he might destroy. These two factors really combine poorly and have ended some combats very quickly. Even if an enemy has 2-3 weapons, he can simply sunder each one in turn. Spoiler:
Is even more of a target to remove him from the battle. In this particular battle, he was subject to hold person and summarily executed by a dwarf lieutenant with a waraxe. Bravery had little impact on gameplay - fear effects were not common. It's a nice addition, but relatively little value. Spoiler:
Granted, not everything is an NPC with weapons, but looking ahead through the adventure, I notice quite a few monsters with low ACs and to-hit. Again, I reiterate, it is nice that the fighter has a good AC effectively making them not worry about low-level combatants (very much feels like 2nd Edition), I am finding that creatures around 2 levels lower than the Fighter often require a natural 20 to hit.
For example, 6 hobgoblin ranger/rogues had no chance to hit the party fighter, even with flanking. Aid another boosted their hit chance to 19-20, but barely dealing enough to bypass stoneskin. The hobgoblin master, CR 7 ranger/fighter, needed an 18 to hit with flank, 16 with aid another. His damage could bypass the stoneskin, but only with luck. Second example, Flesh Golem wielding a +2 flaming longsword. After a helpful haste from the party sorcerer, the CR 8 golem had to roll an 18 to hit the party fighter. The party fighter, equipped with an adamantine longsword, easily dispatched the golem. I have come to the conclusion that until the monsters are released, they need major tweaking as some CRs are off in regards to to-hit and AC.
My initial suggestion is to have armor training apply to either melee or ranged attacks (possibly with an increase in value, say +1). This would give enemies more options for combating the fighter, and support the ranged/melee outlook the player chooses for their character. Spoiler:
I am noticing something as a DM. Almost every NPC the party encounters has extra hp from this and toughness. This essentially negates the benefit of the fighter's Weapon Training. Spoiler:
Are spaced out enough that a multiclass character does not experience much benefit unless they commit to fighter levels (based on Stillguar (an NPC clr9/ftr6), who was an effective combatant but not much moreso than if he had remained as a cleric). Most of the time he was either a 9th level cleric, or about a 12th level fighter. Had he been all of one (15th level cleric or 15th level fighter) the fight would have been much more deadly. I see this as a good thing, as it means the new fighter class is not unbalancing multiclass characters. Spoiler:
Amply prepared for the PCs. The PCs healed up, and cast stoneskin on the cleric and sorcerer but not the fighter, who had about 40 points remaining. I retooled the General (CR 10 human fighter) to face the PCs using only Pathfinder rules, which meant replacing some feats. Tyraniss the blue dragon was left untouched at CR 8. The fighter charged in again, getting pinned between Tyraniss and the General, who began chipping away at his hp and stoneskin. The dragon used breath weapon on the spellcasters, or full attack to keep the fighter occupied. The fight only lasted 6 rounds, but it was action-packed. Even after the dragon fell, the General held his own, sundering (damaging) the clerics armor, the fighters armor, and even (in the best twist) the cleric's holy symbol! The General fell following several vampiric touch spells from the sorcerer, and hasted full attacks from the fighter.
Now, for interest, here is the satisfying CR 10 General, Pathfinder-style:
In summary, the fighter seems to have become so reliant on AC and attacks as to make very little chance of failure in these areas, especially against low level opponents. This seriously affects the CR system, as the cut-off is around 10 levels difference, but the fighter is unaffected by around 2-3 levels. Except, of course, for saving throws, the player agreed with me that they deserve some kind of mettle-like ability to shrug off effects. Mobility has been helped by CMB somewhat, but could also use improvement. Finally, my biggest complaint in relation to fighters. Compared to rogues, they now get the same amount of bonus "combat feats" (minus 1st level feat), because the rogue can select combat feats (or better abilities) as their talents. I find this extremely unfair to the fighter, who gets feats as a primary class feature, yet the rogue matches them step for step at 2nd level and beyond.
|
