The Fishmonger Design Thread


Homebrew and House Rules

Scarab Sages

Post ideas here for the all-new Fishmonger core class. A few things to keep in mind:

  • This is meant to be humourous at the suggestion of the existence of such a class. It is not meant to disparage Paizo's work on any other core classes.

  • As such, suggestions could be completely outlandish but should be appropriately balanced within the PRPG system.


  • Well, when I hear "fishmonger," I immediately get the image of a 16th century London burger, newly elevated to the aristocracy. (Since, thanks to fishmongery, my forbear was elevated to the nobility by King Henry VIII.) If noble was a prestige class, I'd want to build fishmonger as an obvious lead-in base class.

    Scarab Sages

    I'll start off with the class description:

    The smell carries down dark alleys, through crowded market streets, through the hovels of the poor and tinted glass windows of kings alike. The sickly-sweet mix of commerce and offal. This is the harbinger of the fishmonger. Though few desire to ply this trade, those that do so do it from necessity; for all the world craves fish, and who but the fishmonger will dispense it? The fishmonger is both worshipped and spat upon on any given day. When the fish arrives fresh to market, all manner of people clamber for this rich bounty. But by days end the baskets of heads, doll's eyes gaping widly, and the piles of bones and guts create a pocket of inactivity in even the busiest marketplace.
    Role: The fishmongers role in any party is two-fold. First and foremost his priority is to provide the party with fish and sea-greens, plankton and protein from the sea. When not accomplishing this goal, the fishmonger proves a deadly ally. Wielding the instruments of his trade with reckless precision, the fishmonger is just as detested and loved on the battlefield as off.


    Sea urchin shurikens? Sea urchin caltrops? Treated by the class as neither improvised nor exotic weapons.

    Contributor

    Well, as a capstone to 20 levels of this base class, I'd give the fishmonger the ability to, once a year, sell a fish that grants wishes. After all, there are likely enough deaf fishermen in the world, and fishermen who just do massive gill netting and such, that the cries of "Wait! Wait! If you let me go, I'll grant you three wishes!" must occasionally go unheard, so the magic talking fish must reasonably end up with the fishmonger.

    This ability would be something like "Speak with Dead Fish," usable at will. Of course most dead fish, when asked "Do you grant wishes?" will either answer "No" or "Huh?" Though there are other useful questions: "Are you the former familiar or sidekick of a mermaid?" "Are you the former familiar or sidekick of a sea hag?" and "Do you know the whereabouts of the Salmon of Wisdom or any other magical fish?"


    Fish also have a tendency to swallows coins, magical rings, and such. I hope this is taken into account as design moves forward.

    Scarab Sages

    I'm torn whether the class is more effective as a joke in the following ways:

    1) Played straight-up. Is really just a glorified NPC class with little combat usefulness. All class abilities would be tied to buying, gutting, and selling fish.

    2) Ridiculous. Silly abilities like being immune to stench effects, or having a stench aura, using fish-knives as weapons, etc.

    3) Somewhere in the middle.

    Scarab Sages

    Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
    Well, when I hear "fishmonger," I immediately get the image of a 16th century London burger, newly elevated to the aristocracy. (Since, thanks to fishmongery, my forbear was elevated to the nobility by King Henry VIII.) If noble was a prestige class, I'd want to build fishmonger as an obvious lead-in base class.

    I think this could be a good capstone. The speak-with-fish ability could be granted at 1st level, with the wish effect in the capstone.


    A tasty blind of one and two, for what it's worth, is my thought.

    BTW, if you weren't sufficiently entertained by my first post, maybe it helps to know that it follows the principle of "truth is stranger than fiction."


    Jal Dorak wrote:
    Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
    Well, when I hear "fishmonger," I immediately get the image of a 16th century London burger, newly elevated to the aristocracy. (Since, thanks to fishmongery, my forbear was elevated to the nobility by King Henry VIII.) If noble was a prestige class, I'd want to build fishmonger as an obvious lead-in base class.
    I think this could be a good capstone. The speak-with-fish ability could be granted at 1st level, with the wish effect in the capstone.

    Yeah, this fits with a blend/extend strategy.

    Scarab Sages

    Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
    Fish also have a tendency to swallows coins, magical rings, and such. I hope this is taken into account as design moves forward.

    Part of me also wants to go old-school, but it should really be PRPG.

    I just got a great idea for "% chance to catch fish" and "% chance for fish-treasure".

    Could work it as:

    Bounty of the Sea
    Once per week, when the fishmonger attempts a Profession [fishmonger] check he may consult the following chart to determine the results:

    DC 10 - Rare catch. +10gp this week.
    DC 20 - Sell it to the wizard. Gain Eschew Materials feat for one party member for the week.
    DC 40 - Fat loot. Roll random treasure on the minor items table.
    {Chart incomplete}

    Obviously like the Bards Performance, the Profession skill will be integral to this build.

    RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

    You're going about this all wrong.

    If I'm not mistaken, "fishmonger" was Medieval slang that was equivalent to the modern "pimp." So the fishmonger class should clearly have nothing to do with fish and everything to do with pimping.


    Jal Dorak wrote:


    1) Played straight-up. Is really just a glorified NPC class with little combat usefulness. All class abilities would be tied to buying, gutting, and selling fish.

    This please.


    Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
    Well, as a capstone to 20 levels of this base class, I'd give the fishmonger the ability to, once a year, sell a fish that grants wishes. After all, there are likely enough deaf fishermen in the world, and fishermen who just do massive gill netting and such, that the cries of "Wait! Wait! If you let me go, I'll grant you three wishes!" must occasionally go unheard, so the magic talking fish must reasonably end up with the fishmonger.

    Magic Fish


    Boomarang fish, a la Lew Zealand, would make a nice exotic weapon. However, shouldn't we broaden the scope a little here with a "-monger" class, capable of supporting any of a party's mongering needs? Fishmongering could be just one of the many available talent trees for this class, which could also build junkmongers, rumormongers, meatmongers and fleshmongers, among others...


    Epic Meepo wrote:

    You're going about this all wrong.

    If I'm not mistaken, "fishmonger" was Medieval slang that was equivalent to the modern "pimp." So the fishmonger class should clearly have nothing to do with fish and everything to do with pimping.

    Even given the secondary usage, the Medieval Fishmongers companies/guilds were all about the fishing...of fish...the kind that live under water.


    Naturally, an Aura of Fear only affecting aquatic creatures may be appropraite. We are talking about the dreaded fishmonger, killer of innocent fishes, and likely a bed-time story reminding little fishy children to behave themselves...or he'll come get you!.

    Plus, it should definately have catfolk and tibbet substitution levels.

    Scarab Sages

    I love the ideas, keep 'em coming I'm looking at all suggestions seriously...

    Especially love the idea of having a magic fish animal companion, even if you are not in an aquatic environment (this is where the speak with dead fish comes in)!

    Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012

    I think a fishmonger could have a "ranged fish strike" ability, similar to the monk's unarmed strike ability. The fishmonger can only use it when throwing a fish weighing at least 5 pounds.

    Alternatively, the fishmonger can employ a "fish slap" which does 1d3 damage plus sneak attack damage (progression would be one step behind a rogue's).

    Dark Archive

    Something should be done regarding the stench and sense of social unease that surrounds such a person. Abilities like a troglodytes stench might suit the effects, or perhaps a weaker variation on stinking cloud, centered on the fishmonger himself (perhaps sickening those in adjacent squares, unless they have spent 24 hours 'getting used to' the stench, while nauseating only those who enter his square, either in the course of attacking him, or those whom he deliberately grapples). The effects would be doubled on elves, bards and aristocrats, and in systems that involve social rankings or status levels, the fishmonger might find his very presence 'socially damaging' to those of higher status! A logical capstone along these lines would be the dreaded 'kiss of death,' where a fishmonger embraces a member of a higher social ranking as a comrade in full sight of his peers, causing his station to plummet like a paralyzed falcon, and causing any Aristocrat levels to be replaced immediately with Fishmonger levels, as no other social group will have him...

    Some fish products are quite deadly, and a fishmonger might have special abilities related to the exotic venom of dishes like fugu. His fish hook or filetting knife might carry the toxins of the jellyfish, lionfish or pufferfish.

    Fish are also famous for producing oils, which could be used for lighting, insulation from cold and lubricants. Using such products, a fishmonger might have a form of piscine alchemy, that he can use to make his clothing more resistant to cold, produce sunrods (using phosphorescent sea life?) or even duplicate the effects of a limited grease spell.

    Contributor

    When he ascends to the gentry, he needs to get a codpiece. And there should be some power associated with this.


    You mean like an immunity to critical hits?

    Scarab Sages

    Here's a rough idea of the class abilities (not in order):

    1) Talking magic fish companion
    2) Auras (stench, protection vs fish, fear vs fish)
    3) Poison application
    4) Speak with dead fish
    5) Sneak attack vs. aquatic subtype (favored enemy?)
    6) Special attacks with certain weapons (hook+grapple, knife+gut)
    7) Add any aquatic language (aboleth for example) to bonus languages
    8) % to recover loot from fish
    9) Nobility capstone (codpiece included)
    10) Class Limitations: Requires material components and Profession skill

    Personally I feel this class should be like the Barbarian and have the exception for hit points: d4!

    I'd like to get more so I have a larger base to work with. Some of these abilities could be combined, or are one-shot deals so to go with something at every level we need more things.

    I'm also considering adding a spell progression (very limited) which would include the turn into fish line of spells.


    I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the use of unique fishingline powers (similar to sorcerer bloodlines) based on where in the world your family is from and where ply your trade ala a Norwegian fishingline giving you a benefit to Cod related skill and fishing checks...


    I suggest armor proficiency with padded and leather armor (maybe they could get light armor prof if you could figure out why he would have a chain apron). Weapon proficiency meat cleaver, gaff hook, and net. A fishmonger is treated as having two-weapon fighting when wielding 2 meat cleavers (so he can chop his fish faster).

    On the silly side, perhaps he gets special effects to his cleaver after having gutted a fish, like atropine coated blade, after gutting fugu fish?

    Scarab Sages

    Some butchers wear a chainmail analogue, so giving them chain shirts with Light Armor wouldn't be unreasonable.

    But they should lose class features if they wear anything heavier - after all, how can you catch, chop, and sell fish in full plate?


    Perhaps the leadership feat for free? Most tradesmen take on apprentices.

    Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

    A massive bonus to Bluff when lying about the size of the last fish they caught. Or any time they say "I swear it was thiiiisssss big!"

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

    Spite Fisherman (Ex): Once per day, a fishmonger can call out to the powers of public embarrassment to aid him in his struggle against chiseling fishermen. As a swift action, the fishmonger chooses one target within sight to spite. If this target is in possession of freshly-caught fish, the fishmonger adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his intimidate checks and adds his fishmonger level to all perception checks to determine whether bystanders notice the commotion he is causing. If the target of spite fisherman is an outsider with the water subtype, or any creature of the aquatic subtype, the bonus to perception checks increases to 2 points per level the fishmonger possesses. Regardless of the target, spite fisherman attacks automatically cause the attitude of any who notice the event to drop by one step toward both the target and the fishmonger for one hour.


    Alive, Alive-O! (Su): Once per day, a fishmonger of 3rd level or higher may affect a bushel of cockles and mussels to allow them to breathe air. This functions similarly to a water breathing spell cast as a cleric of the fishmonger's level, except it allows water-breathing creatures to breathe air, and affects only shellfish with fewer hit dice than the fishmonger.


    It's a big one!: Give the fish monger an ability to catch fish bigger than normal. It could easily be a scalable ability, so that a 20th elvel fishmonger could be reelin' in a leviathan.

    The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

    Nero24200 wrote:
    It's a big one!: Give the fish monger an ability to catch fish bigger than normal. It could easily be a scalable ability, so that a 20th elvel fishmonger could be reelin' in a leviathan.

    LOL! SCALE-able???

    Scarab Sages

    Jal Dorak wrote:

    Some butchers wear a chainmail analogue, so giving them chain shirts with Light Armor wouldn't be unreasonable.

    But they should lose class features if they wear anything heavier - after all, how can you catch, chop, and sell fish in full plate?

    They should definitely be proficient in scale-mail, surely?

    Scarab Sages

    Jump the Shark: At 10th level (ie, when most campaign series are running out of steam), the fishmonger becomes tempted to show off in ever more implausible stunts, to attract a dwindling audience.

    As an immediate action, he may avoid a charge by an aquatic creature, by succeeding a Reflex save vs DC 10 + half creature's Hit Die + creature's Dex mod.

    If successful, this move takes him to the nearest edge of the creature's charge corridor, but only if this distance is no greater than his current move rate. If the charger has movement left, it continues on the same path, and may attack another target in its path, if it succeeds at a Spot check against them.


    If you are looking for Monk like abilities I recommend Monty Pythons fish slapping.

    Scarab Sages

    I'll probably add to Jump the Shark so that it allows the Fishmonger to jump any aquatic creature without limits on the height of the jump and without provoking an attack of opportunity. If he succeeds, all allies who witness the event gain some stupid bonus, like +2 on Will saves but -2 on all Intelligence based checks for 24 hours (being dumber for having seen it).

    RPG Superstar 2012

    For spells, might I suggest a variant to Heroes' Feast which gives a bonus to saves against poison or disease, because of the omega 3 in the feast. Perhaps a Summon School spell, which brings forth a school of nibbling fish. Animal Messenger, Baleful Polymorph, Quench, and Water Breathing are also good existing spell candidates.

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