Duskblade's page

757 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.

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Shiroi wrote:
Excellent stories, both of them. I'd happily read more if you have the time to post them. Thank you for the tales, bard.

Here is my latest story:

Never Give Up, Never Surrender

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I finally finished it, and I think everyone here would enjoy reading it.

How to Raise Your Dragon

I hope you all enjoy :)

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I really do enjoy when archetypes are designed with the idea of possibly stacking with another archetype. It really allows players to add a lot of versatility, and approach a class from an entirely new angle. It's definitely a habit that I hope to see a lot more often.

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I agree. The ability for me to prove that the eidolon is an instantaneous conjuration effect just isn't there (I basically need a dev to state otherwise at this point because instantaneous duration effects cannot be dismissed...and I have no way proving that the ability to dismiss the eidolon is a separate effect that is just granted through the eidolon ability). I appreciate all the help guys, and thanks for your patience.

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Hey Mark, I have to ask: Does an eidolon function in an antimagic field? I apologize for bringing up this question if it has already been asked, but the issue has come up in my current adventure path and I'd really like to find an answer.

I've also posted this question on the forums:

In the thread I list my reasons as to why I believe the eidolon doesn't wink out of existence in an ant-magic field, but if you could help shed some light on the subject that would be great.

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Okay, this issue has come up in my current adventure path in Kingmaker, and I really need to find an answer.

Basically the argument boils down to this: does the eidolon 'wink' out of existence when it enters an antimagic field or not?

My argument is that it does not, because the eidolon is brought into existence using a 'ritual' with an instantaneous effect (I'm assuming the ritual MUST be a conjuration effect because u are literally 'summoning' a creature from another plane). Therefore, the eidolon follows the similar rules to a planar ally (basically a planar ally would NOT wink out of existence in an antimagic field because it is not tethered to the material plane by magic).

Furthermore, if you detect magic on the eidolon, from what I can tell...the eidolon would not register as a 'conjuration' effect (again, meaning that the eidolon is ACTUALLY there and not simply existing in that location because of a 'magical' effect). Therefore, if the eidolon doesn't register as 'magical' when u detect magic on can it be effected by an 'anti-magic field' if there is NO MAGIC on the eidolon?

Keep in mind that like planar ally, eidolon's are not effected by dispel magic effects (which is essentially what antimagic field does). So, if the eidolon is immune to dispel magic can antimagic field work on it?

Yes, I know the eidolon is listed as being a 'summoned creature', but it would appear that it is a summoned creature that with 'no duration' (which would then mean that the 'summoning' of this summoned creature is an instantaneous effect...which would then imply that antimagic field CANNOT effect it).

Please, any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

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Well, I'm hoping for Antipaladin archetypes as usual. Specifically archetypes that deal with trading out smite good and cruelties for other bonuses (such as gaining the barbarian 'Rage' ability along with 'Rage Powers'). Some Ninja archetypes would also be very welcome as well. about an Antipaladin archetype that trades out 'fiendish boon' for a 'Black Blade' (like the one gained from the Magus archetype). I mean, come on...who doesn't like the idea of having an evil blade with a mind of its own? Tis clearly much more practical than a silly little ring (just make sure the hobbits don't steal it) ;)

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Succubus in a grapple...the only way to die :P

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One of my favorite things about Pathfinder has always been the archetypes. I love being able to trade out certain abilities in order to give my character more flavor, power, or at the very least make them more unique. However, even after all the books paizo has released, there are still some classes that are in DESPERATE need of more archetypes (at least in my opinion): Samurai, ninja, antipaladin, sorcerer, and witch (just to name a few), and I'm sure we would all certainly love to see more archetypes included for the classes in the Advanced Class Guide as well.

So tell me everyone, what do you think? What kind of archetypes would you like to see in the future? For me, I think I'm mostly looking forward to more Antipaladin (or even paladin) archetypes. Perhaps something that can turn you into a vampire (or maybe an archetype for a wizard/sorcerer/arcanist that turns you into a lich).

Perhaps a samurai archetypes that has access to ki, or an antipaladin archetype that sacrifices smite good for barbarian Rage.

Please feel free to post some of your thoughts/suggestions as well (and who knows, maybe paizo will consider the idea of printing this book somewhere down the road).

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So, after reading some of these comments, I'm afraid I must agree: I now despise Herolab! As such, I will be sure to log it away with all the other things I despise, such as the calculator, car, cell phone, and easy-bake oven.



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Lathiira wrote:
Duskblade, I'm glad I didn't try to grapple YOUR succubus, that would be...difficult?

Difficult...or do you mean 'fun'? ;)

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Ya know, all this talk about a succubus in a grapple really has me wanting to make a succubus barbarian with the following rage powers...

No Escape (cause, ya know, we dont' want them getting away)

Swift Foot (For those with a fetish)

Savage Dirty Trick (Because one can only imagine what kind of trick this would be)

Reckless Abandon (In case she wants to get wild)

Animal Fury (For those REALLY kinky moments, and its also a prerequisite for the next rage power)

Savage Jaw (Because if a succubus isn't grappling with her mouth, she isn't doing it right)

Smasher (Because ignoring an object's 'hardness' is a VERY powerful thing)

Knockdown (Because sometimes position is key, and being on top of a prone target is a VERY dominat--er...I mean advantageous position)

Groundbreaker (Or, as I like to call it: dropping it like its hot)

Come and Get Me (Because who doesn't like a 'tease that aims to please')

Auspicious Mark (Because a tattoo on the lower back is pretty much required)

Body Bludgeon (Because I imagine a succubus would be very skilled with this)

Breathtaker (For all those 'naughty' enemies who think they can resist)

[Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that the 'extra rage powers' feat will definitely be required]

Also, the succubus must have the 'savage barbarian' archetype. After all, we cannot underestimate the benefits of 'naked courage' now can we?

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I'm honestly starting to think that we just need to rename the pummeling style feat into 'FALCON PUNCH!'

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Well, after going over some of the new features in the ACG, I finally stumbled across a little feat known as Pummeling Style. For those not aware, this is what it does...

Pummeling Style-As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit.

Now at first I was like "hey, that's cool: clustered shots for unarmed strikes". However, after crunching a few numbers, I have to admit that this feat really does have me a little concerned, particularly when it comes to the amount of damage it is capable of doing.

I recently started experimenting with the Sacred Fist warpriest archetype, and needless to say, when I was forced to figure out which combat style I needed to pick for my bonus feats, pummeling style was the first to come to mind. However, after testing out a couple of ideas (namely using things like Divine Power and Ki flurry to gain 2 additional attacks whenever I use Flurry of Blows), I discovered that my character was dishing out 9 attacks at level 20 (along with a boatload of damage as well).

When combined with Pummeling Style, the character was easily dishing out 300-400 damage in a SINGLE strike (which is almost enough to kill...well, just about ANYTHING with one single shot!). Furthermore, because the feat states that if ANY of my attack rolls are confirmed critical hits, then the damage for the ENTIRE ATTACK is also a critical hit as well.

So essentially, 300-400 damage suddenly becomes 600-800 damage...which pretty much one-shots anything in the game (for the time being, i'm assuming u can only use this feat with unarmed strikes, so a x2 crit range seems appropriate).

I guess what I'm basically asking is...doesn't this seem a little excessive? I mean, granted I love a powerful character and all, but when you are able to deal out this much kinda seems a little absurd.

Part of me is inclined to believe that this feat might get hit (or at least SHOULD get hit) with a nerf bat much like how Crane Style did, but I guess I wanted to see what other people thought first. As it stands, the fact that you are adding up damage from a +5 amulet of mighty fists, power attack (+12 for 20th level flurry), your strength modifier (which in my example was +8), and any of the other extra 1d6s from things like flaming and frost just seems a bit over the top, but if anyone feels otherwise, I'd sure like to know about it.

Now granted, in my example I'm assuming that every attack hits, but even if we allow for miss-chance and all, the numbers still strike me as a little on the ridiculous side (but again, if anyone feels differently, feel free to post). In my opinion, the feat would be more balanced if a critical hit only applied to a single damage roll (so basically if you rolled 30 damage on a crit and you already had 100 damage from previous attacks, the crit would only add 60 to the total...making it 160 damage...rather than doubling the entire amount to 260 damage).

But again, that's just me.

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I would still argue that both abilities are meant to work exactly the same. The way I read is like this...

If the bonded creature’s hit points are reduced to –5 or fewer (as in, if the bonded creature hit points are reduced by -5 damage or more) then this ability activates.

Its fuzzy English, I know, but that seems to be the intent in my opinion (especially since they are basing it off of the life link oracle revelation).

Also, keep in mind that -6 is 'fewer' then -5 (which is why I contend that the intent of this ability is to function exactly like the revelation).

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Does the game need polishing? Sure. Are some of the older classes showing their age? Yes. Can the rules be simplified? Absolutely.

While I will contend that the game is flawed in some small aspects, I do believe that the overall quality is still very good. I know a lot of people would like to do away with alignment restrictions, and I personally would like to see that as well. Also, I think many of us can agree that some of the monsters in the bestiary kinda need a power boost to keep up with the growing power creep.

That being said, the system is still very solid. Oh sure, we could probably do away with a few of the useless class skills ( we really need profession, perform, or knowledge nobility), and also clean up a few of the more 'difficult to define' spells, but aside from a few tweaks, do we really need an overhaul yet?

I don't really think so.

Now granted, when Pathfinder 2.0 does come out, I will happily start buying the books. Honestly though, I'm kinda hoping Pathfinder Unchained starts polishing up a few of the problems.

Either way, I have confidence in the staff at Paizo, and I hope they continue to give us even more of this wonderful game we love.

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I swear you all are doing it wrong...

Philter of Love + Syringe Spear = Seduction in a can.

I like to call it the 'Cupid Solution' (and yes, that phrase is totally copyrighted, lol). After all, why waste time seducing when magic can do it for ya ;)

Just remeber kids, a succubus isn't the only one who can 'work her magic' to get what she wants :P All it really takes is one little potion and a stick with a needle.

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Hey everyone. While I'm not sure if a thread like this exists yet or not, I kinda felt compelled to start one anyway. Basically the goal of this particular thread is to showcase some really neat tricks that players have pulled off during their Pathfinder games. I'm not really asking for anyting game-breaking or cheesey, although if you'd like to list those things, that's perfectly fine as well. All I'm asking for is just some cool ideas/discoveries/or interactions that you guys have utilized during some of your campaigns.

And so, with that in mind, allow me to start:

Philter of Love + Syringe Spear = Instant lovey dovey

Rod of Security = Immortality in a can

Iressistable Dance + Quickened Icy Prison = Popsicle Express

Fate's Favored + Stone of Good Luck = Winning

Ablative Barrier + Mummification = Free DR without having DR

Like I said before, feel free to jot down whatever you like: maybe you've discovered a cool item that very few people use, or perhaps you've found a great interaction between two particular spells. Whatever it might be, go ahead and list it, for I'm sure their are many in the community (myself included) who are eager to hear about some of the coolest pathfinder tricks that can be found inside the game. Thanks again.

**Please note, things like bribing the GM with Candy and Beer does NOT qualify as a Pathfinder Trick...just sayin' ;)

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Alright, I figure I might as well cheat and approach this subject from a different perspective: if you guys want the rogue to work, just be a Wyrwood.


Well because a Wyrwood is basically immune to all the rogue's weaknesses (construct traits will kinda do that for ya). Furthermore, the rogue's abilities compliment the Wyrwood a great deal (with evasion pretty much making the Wyrwood virtually immune to most kinds of magic attacks the require a save).

In addition, the lack of a constitution score makes the rogue less MAD, and even helps to give the rogue a HUGE boost in hit points (if you took the favored class bonus on top of the toughness feat, you would basically have 22 hit points level 1).

And finally, to top it all off, you are also small: benefits for stealth, extra accuracy, the whole nine yards.

Of course, if anyone wants to 'theory-craft' about how to make the rogue better, then the answer is actually a lot more simpler then you think...

Just make it easier for the rogue to make his opponents flat-footed.

For example, if their were rogue feats that said something like "whenever a rogue with this talent makes an attack of opportunity or charges, her opponent is considered flat-footed". Or you could also go with something like "whenever a rogue with this talent confirms a critical hit, she may also apply sneak attack damage if she hasn't already done so."

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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I often enjoy seeing all the threads that discuss theory-crafting and class balance issues, and so in honor of all those 'informative' threads, I give you this masterpiece:

Class Balancing Episode 1 - Getting Past the Trap!

THE SCENARIO - After making your perception checks, you discover that the hallway in front of you is most definitely trapped (oh no's!). What do you do?

Druid: *contemplates sending her animal companion down the hall first(animal cruelty at its finest), but instead decides to take 10 minutes to figure out which creature she'd like to wildshape into*

Rogue: *"Don't worry guys, I got this!" she says, while all the while thinking Evasion level 2 for the win!*

Fighter: *looks at silly rogue fiddling with the trap...and then happily proceeds to step down the hall thumping his armor LIKE A MAN!* "Come at me bro!"

Barbarian: *quickly remembers (despite her constant need to SMASH) that she has damage reduction...and then promptly proceeds to walk down the hall before yelling back at the group to "BE A MAN" as she sways her shapely hips*

Oracle: *babbles incoherently, walks into a wall, casts her freakin protection spell (with no verbal components no less) and walks forward with confidence...cure spells at the ready (while still managing to look hot as hell with her 17 charisma)*

Cleric: *grumbles in frustration as she glares at the rest of the group before screaming "I AM NOT A BAND-AID!"*

Gunslinger: *stands there practicing her 'quick draw' technique, praying to God that the bloody gun won't misfire...again!*

Summoner: *summons OP Eidolon and says "Hey bro! We found a trap!" then points down the hall saying "You first!"...obviously completely aware of the fact that his immortal Eidolon will be just fine*

Paladin: *Volunteers to step forward first, clearly feeling confident that his God will protect him (and if God screws up, lay on hands and Divine Grace for the win!)*

Antipaladin: *watches as half the group willingly steps forward into the obviously dangerous trap thinking 'Wow, this is going to be easier than I thought'*

Monk: *has enough common sense to simply sit on the floor and wait for the rogue and/or ninja to disable the trap*

Inquisitor: *watches in amazement as some members of the group walk forward into the trap, while other members try to disable it, as the rest just wait around to see who's left standing when the smoke finally clears*

Bard: *plays his banjo while singing his heart out, moonwalking down the hall without a single care in the world*

Sorcerer: *casts fly upon herself and struts down the hall (yes, she struts in the air), while looking back at the wizard with a confident little smile "Real God's don't need spellbooks"*

Wizard: *grumbles to himself and casts Unseen Servant saying "Run down the hall as fast as you can, and make sure to touch as many things as possible!*

[Unseen Servant]: *Gets secretly excited (despite being mindless) about groping the oracle, sorcerer, and smoking hot barbarian*

Witch: *holds her familiar close and prays that none of these stupid idiots end up getting it killed again*

Magus: *gets fed up and casts dimension door, transporting himself to the other end of the hall (wasted level 4 spell...check...separated himself from the party...check...still potentially activating the trap despite all his efforts...double yeah, high intelligence score for the win)

Ninja: *mysteriously utters "I'm Batman" before vanishing from sight*

Cavalier: *continues to feel sad that he couldn't take his pony into yet another dungeon*

Samurai: *also feels bad about not having his pony, but at least he still has his trusty old Katana*

Alchemist: *takes a moment to look at his crazily deformed body, with his four human arms, bat-like wings, and large slimy tentacle, thinking the entire time "My God...what have I done"....and a mid-life crisis quickly ensues*

Ranger: *Looks down the hall, then at the rest of the group, before 'wisely' and 'politely' motioning them forward "After you"*

So, as you can tell, every class is useless ;).

Hope you all enjoyed, and feel free to post comments or your own versions if you like.

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The reason I say War Sight counters deafness is because being deaf affects your ability to perceive danger (and thus also hurts your initiative). With War Sight, it no longer matters if you can perceive danger or not, since you can always act in a surprise round regardless of whether you perceived the enemies or not (plus, it helps with the initiative issue as well).

I guess the issue I'm having is that if you are allowed to 'act' in a surprise round, doesn't that essentially suggest that you are 'aware' that a surprise round is taking place? If so, wouldn't that mean that you are automatically 'awakened' if a surprise round occurs?

Again, I would chalk it up to a 'sixth sense' or 'battle-sense' that goes beyond normal senses, allowing you to perceive danger even though you would not normally perceive it (hence the example of being asleep).

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Helm of the Mammoth Lord - Grants you a gore attack (which is primary)
Ring of Rat Fangs - Grants you a bite attack (again primary)
Wyvern Cloak - Expensive, but grants you a sting attack (primary as well)
Tentacle Cloak - Gives you two secondary natural attacks

There are also some 'fleshcrafting potions' that can give you some secondary natural attacks for a permanent penalty, although I wouldn't recommend using them. Essentially the above magic items are your best (and probably the least cheesiest) bet to acquire more natural attacks. In truth, natural attacks only really shine on something like a ninja, rogue, alchemist, etc. If you already have a Full BAB, you probably don't need them (just go ahead and stick with two-handing a weapon, unless you REALLY wanna have the natural attack flavor).

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Vest of Stable Mutation - 20000gp
This leather vest is fitted with a number of pockets that are useful
for storing the ingredients necessary for alchemical tinkering.
The main ability of this vest, however, is to lessen the debilitating
effects of an alchemist’s mutagen. While under the effect of any
type of mutagen, the wearer takes no penalty to mental ability
scores from that mutagen.

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In honor of my wonderful obsession with natural attacks, I decided to go ahead and post my build for making an incredible Mr. Hyde Alchemist. The entire point of this setup is to take advantage of the incredible amount of accuracy that primary natural attacks provide, as well showing everyone how to properly balance out a great melee-based alchemist.

Now, to start things off, I would first like to point out what type of archetypes I recommend when using this build. In my personal opinion, the Vivisectionist and Internal Alchemist archetypes are probably the best way to go, though I understand why some of you might be attracted to the Beastmorph archetype.

The truth is though, aside from gaining pounce, the beastmorph archetype really doesn't provide you with any other spectacular benefits (at least in my opinion). Oh sure, you can gain a lot of neat benefits when you drink your mutagen, like flying and such, but there are a lot of other easy ways of obtaining those same abilities. All in all, I really do think the beastmorph archetype is HIGHLY overrated, but that doesn't mean you can't use it if you don't want to.

Anyways, now that we have established the type of archetypes we're using, lets try and figure out what type of race we should select. Now again, there are a lot of good options for the alchemist, but in my humble opinion, I seriously would encourage one of the following races...

Human (I would recommend selecting the 'dual talent' racial trait)

Each of the above races are very well suited for becoming powerful melee-based alchemists. However, I personally find myself favoring the Hobgoblin more than any of the others, and my reason for this is very simple: a hobgoblin alchemist can pretty much fill all the roles of a rogue. Because goblinoids gain 'stealth' as a class skill, and because a hobgoblin gets an incredible +4 to stealth, I find that the hobgoblin alchemist makes a great substitute for the 'skill monkey' of the party.

Furthermore, the hobgoblin provides a nice boost in stats without ever penalizing any of your ability scores. All in all, I'd say it is an incredible choice for an alchemist, and the added benefit of speaking goblin and having darkvision is just the icing on the cake. Of course, I won't deny that a human with 'dual talent' could probably have better stats, but I still think a hobgoblin is a better choice.

Once we have selected our race, its time to go ahead and get our stats out of the way. Again, assuming we have a 15 point buy in (and that we have selected hobgoblin as our race) our stats should probably look something like this...

STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 7

These are pretty solid stats given our race and class, with a nice good mixture of offensive and defensive capabilities. Charisma is obviously useless to us, so there isn't any real reason to try and maintain it.

From here, its time to start selecting our feats, traits, discoveries, and magic items. My recommendations for all of them are as follows...

1. Toughness
3. Power Attack
5. Extra Discovery: Infusion
7. Extra Discovery: Healing Touch
9. Extra Discovery: Preserve Organs
11. Extra Discovery: Vestigial Arms
13. Extra Discovery: Vestigial Arms
15. Extra Discovery: Extend Potion
17. Extra Discovery: Eternal Potion
19. Combat Reflexes

Indomitable Faith

2. Feral Mutagen
4. Spontaneous Healing
6. Wings
8. Combine Extracts
10. Mummification
12. Greater Mutagen
14. Tentacle
16. Grand Mutagen
18. Improved Initiative
20. True Mutagen/Preserve Organs/Preserve Organs

Useful Magic Items
Cloak of Resistance
Helm of the Mammoth Lord
Amulet of Mighty Fists
Vest of Stable Mutation
Belt of Physical Perfection
Demon Talons (x2)
Headband of Vast Intellect
Ring of Evasion

Alright, before we continue, I imagine that I probably need to do a little bit of explaining, particularly in regards to using the vestigial arms and tentacle discovery.

There has been an ongoing debate about whether or not a player can actually use these 'additional limbs' to make natural attacks or not. Now, from what I have gathered (and debated about) in many other threads is the following: both the tentacle discovery and vestigial arms can be used in place of attacks you could normally make. In other words, if you have a BAB of +11, you are allowed to make 3 attacks. Therefore, in order to use 2 vestigial arms and the tentacle discovery, you must have the required BAB in order to make an attack with all 3 of them.

Anyway, the only reason I bring this up is because I'll need to explain how my alchemist is able to end up with 6 primary natural attacks and 1 secondary natural attack.

For starters, the Feral Mutagen discovery grants the alchemist 3 primary natural attacks (2 claws and 1 bite). However, if you take the vestigial arm discoveries, you can also use 'demon talons' to basically 'cut off' your vestigial arms and replace them with 'claw attacks' as well (if your GM won't allow demon talons, just go ahead and use Talons of Leng instead...although I will warn you that the talons of leng are much worse and more expensive when compared to buying 2 demon talons).

When you add in the secondary natural attack provided by the tentacle discovery along with the 'gore attack' gained from Helm of the Mammoth Lord, you now have a grand total of 7 natural attacks (in other words, you basically have more attacks than an alchemist who uses two-weapon fighting AND you hit more accurately than most other players because you are mostly using primary natural attacks).

Of course, when you add in your ability to deliver sneak attacks, along with the versatility of your extracts and discoveries, you can basically take on the role of the 'melee-meat shield' as well. Speaking of extracts, allow me to show you all a list of recommended formulas...

Level 1
Cure Light Wounds/Enlarge Person/Shield/Identify/Blend/Disguise Self

Level 2
Ablative Barrier/Invisibility/Barkskin/Lesser Restoration/Alchemical Allocation

Level 3
Thorn Body/Haste/Displacement/Heroism

Level 4
Fluid Form/Greater False Life/Freedom of Movement/Echolocation

Level 5
Delayed Consumption/Overland Flight

Level 6
Statue/Twin Form/Giant Form I/Heal

The main reason I like this build so much is because not only are you able to act as a serious threat in combat, but you can also support your party and fill many essential roles as well. Disabling traps, buffing the party, acting as the scout, and being able to absorb an absurd amount of punishment while still dishing out very reliable and powerful damage is extremely appealing on so many levels.

Anyways, if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to make a post and I'll try to address them whenever I can. Thanks again :P

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Yeah...I gotta say...scariest thing in the game is this sucker right here...

Big Daddy Evil

Nothing in the world is more scary than a colossal-sized shark with red eyes THAT CAN FRIGGIN FLY!!!

Just imagine swimming in the ocean and then suddenly spotting this sucker coming right at you.

It would be time to panic I think.

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Ah...the this day, I have to say that the funniest character I ever made was my Lawful Good Paladin in a party full of evil characters.

Wanna know how he worked?

He basically was on a quest to redeem all of the party members and make them see the error of their ways. However, the worst part about this goal was how he went about achieving it.

For example....

A wizard who cuts off the fingers of his enemies during interrogation and feeds them to his badger familiar.

(My Paladin would be like: "Ah, I fear you must suffer for the error of your allies need your do not be afraid...your pain is for a noble go on...break his thumb...I'm sure he will talk then.")

An alchemist who enjoys poisoning and setting his victims on fire and experiments on survivors.

(My Paladin would be like: "We must all make sacrifices in the name of science...but thankfully they will be in a better place soon.")

A rogue who slits the throats of any captive once they stop being useful

(My Paladin: "His purpose has been fulfilled, for truly the Gods will grant him mercy.")

A Rogue that organizes a gang of street urchins into a thieves and assassin's guild

(My Paladin: "Such a noble deed, giving the orphans and strays a sense of purpose...well done!")

A wizard who traps a bunch of guards behind a stone wall and suffocates them to death with Cloudkill.


A barbarian who slaughtered his way through a regiment of the king's guard to free an imprisoned party member.

(My Paladin: "Tis their own fault really. After all, when an elephant charges at you at full speed, the sensible thing to do is to step out of the way.")

A ninja who moonlighted as an assassin.

(My Paladin: "Everyone needs a hobby.")

A nobleman bard who betrayed his entire race to slavery to earn himself a place of power in the new government (Although arguably this was to avoid genocide)

(My Paladin: "I am certain his guilt must haunt him every night...and I shall pray that he finds the courage to forgive himself.")

A summoner constantly in the company of demons.

(My Paladin: "Sometimes it is important to keep a leash on evil." *as my paladin smiles and looks around at his 'vile' party members* )

A wizard who used stone shape to wrap a sleeping guard's head in rock with a tiny hole for air, starving him to death.

(My Paladin: "Truly that guard has payed for his sins.")

(Not my character, but a good friend) A Vampire Sorcerer that dominated a guard in a dungeon and used him as our personal monkey boy/trapfinder.

(My Paladin: "I am certain that the guard will feel very gratified knowing that he is helping to save the lives of myself and my allies.")

A fighter that bought a goblin slave.

(My Paladin: "Goblins might be nasty, ugly, and stupid creatures...but I'm sure he's happy on the inside.")


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...honestly...I'm actually starting to question if I am even allowed to use unarmed strikes in combination with natural attacks at all.

That's not what the rules say (obviously), but from what is being suggested...if I use my claws as natural unarmed strikes won't work because I have somehow exceeded a two-weapon fighting baseline that I never even knew existed.

Truth be told, unarmed fighting and 'natural weapons' have always been a little under-powered when compared to other things, and I figured that the only way to actually keep up with the damage output of other classes was to find clever ways of 'legally' adding more natural weapons and unarmed strikes together.

That way, you can actually get some decent millage out of that 'overpriced' amulet of mighty fists.

Like, if you can stack two-weapon fighting with unarmed strikes ON TOP of natural weapons...then the amulet actually starts to give you back some pretty decent value.

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Not trying to sound rude or anything, but the way the discovery is written (per RAW) the devs are clearly wrong (I've yet to see a 'definitive' answer anyway from any of the devs regarding this issue, which is another reason why I am bringing it back up again).

I find it amazing how everyone keeps wanting to go back to the whole 'does not give the alchemist any extra attacks' bit when that actually has nothing to do with natural attacks.

Let me ask anyone, when has a 'natural attack' EVER been considered an 'extra attack'?

Lets think about this for a second: does Feral Mutagen give you 'extra' claw attacks and an 'extra' bite attack? Nope. In fact, you'll be surprised to learn that whenever any text refers to a 'natural attack', that natural attack is NEVER referred to as an 'extra' attack.

In other words, it is an attack that can be made as part of your 'normal attack routine'.

Now HASTE, on the other hand, specifically grants an 'extra attack' per the description of the spell.

Therefore, the most basic explanation is this...

A 'natural attack' does NOT equal an 'extra attack'.

Since this holds true, there is NO REASON to think that the 'tentacle attack' behaves any differently from a normal secondary natural attack.

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DrDeth wrote:

Me: James, clarify one thing for me: Alchemist:

Feral Mutagen- gains two claws- but at the cost of using a weapon in those appendages?
Tentacles- can use them INSTEAD OF a weapon attack, not in addition to?
Vestigial Limb- same question?
In other words, as I read it, none of these things give you extra attacks, (well Feral does give a extra Bite attack) just more choices of what attacks to make, things to do?
Jame Jacobs: “Yes. They're supposed to be a choice. Use the claws/tentacles or use a weapon. All monsters with claws and tentacles have to make that choice.”

Pretty clear to me. On you regular hand you get the choice of weapons or claws. Not both. Do you get extra attacks from claws if you have no vestigial arms? No (TWF aside, of course). Thus on vestigial arm, since you can’t get any extra attacks if they wield weapons, why do you get extra attacks if they have claws? What part of “The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round,” is unclear?

Ahem, lets try to put the record straight again (love these debates):

Vestigial Arm - does it grant extra attacks...nope...says so in the description.

Feral Mutagen - does it grant 2 claw attacks...yep...says so in the description.

Are Vestigial Arms legal targets for Feral Mutagen...yep...your vestigial arms are both perfectly legal targets.

Can you make attacks with your claws...yep...because your vestigial arms are now considered CLAWS...not vestigial arms.

As I've stated before, natural attacks are not considered extra attacks anyway, and I find it immensely funny how a lot of people want to say that the 'tentacle' discovery doesn't grant you a natural attack as well.

After all, the 'tentacle' discovery says that it doesn't grant you any additional clearly allows you to make a 'tentacle attack'.

By definition (per RAW) a 'tentacle attack' is a secondary natural attack.

Nothing in the description of the 'tentacle' discovery states otherwise.

As mentioned in previous threads, the entire clause of the whole 'grants no extra attacks' is ONLY there to clarify that having these extra limbs does NOT grant you any increased actions to your BAB.

For example, if you can normally make 2 attacks from your BAB, having a 'tentacle' or 'vestigial arm' does not allow you to add a third attack via your BAB (basically, it doesn't grant you any 'extra' iterative strikes). However, in the case of the tentacle discovery, you CAN use it to make a secondary natural attack (again, per RAW), since natural attacks are NOT limited or controlled by your BAB (in other words, it doesn't use iterative attacks).

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I've attempted this sort of build numerous times, and I have to admit, I've always found the feat investment to be far to harsh for what you are getting.

Again, this is why I normally encourage anyone attempting a 'tooth and nail' build to REALLY consider using unarmed strikes instead.

Two-weapon fighting combined with a couple of natural attacks can net you a huge number of attacks with a greater degree of both accuracy and damage.

You should take a look at my "Making Mr. Hyde" and "Feral Barbarian" threads. In both cases, I am easily gaining gaining 10 attacks on a full round action.

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So, in my never-ending quest to show off just how cool combining natural attacks with unarmed strikes can be, I decided to go ahead and make another post regarding the ever-so-popular Mr. Hyde build. Now, as far as making the build work, it's important to understand what type of alchemist archetypes the character should take in order to get the most effectiveness out of his class. Of course, most of you might suggest (and for obviously good reasons) the combination of beastmorph and vivisectionist alchemist. However, what I am about to suggest mighty seem a bit crazy, but after a lot of examination and play-testing, I have come to this conclusion...

The beastmorph alchemist is HIGHLY overrated.

The only thing (and yes, I mean ONLY thing) appealing about the beastmorph archetype is the fact that you can eventually obtain pounce by level 10. Other than that, the class really doesn't offer any substantial benefits beyond a few slight improvements to your mutagens.

In my experience, I have personally found the Vivisectionist and Internal Alchemist combination to be much more satisfying for both flavor and play, especially since the two of them compliment each other very well.

Now again, I want to stress that this build is entirely based around the 'unarmed striking' and 'natural attack' combination in order to maximize it's overall efficiency. So, with that being said, allow to give you all the least of feats and discoveries that enhance this progression...

1. Improved Unarmed Strike, Toughness
3. Power Attack
5. Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Double Slice
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11. Extra Discovery: Spontaneous Healing
13. Extra Discovery: Healing Touch
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
17. Extra Discovery: Eternal Potion
19. Two-Weapon Rend

2. Feral Mutagen
4. Preserve Organs
6. Wings
8. Combine Extracts
10. Mummification
12. Greater Mutagen
14. Extend Potion
16. Grand Mutagen
18. (Whatever you want)
20. True Mutagen/Preserve Organs/Preserve Organs

The goal of the above build is to try and maximize both your offensive and defensive capabilities, while still being able to function in battle without having to always rely upon your mutagen (though granted, it is still important to have your mutagen on hand at all times if you can manage it).

On a side note, I would 'strongly' recommend that EVERYONE spend the time to learn the 'Eternal Potion' discovery, for it is by far one of the most powerful discoveries that an Alchemist can learn. I mean, just imagine if there was a feat that said 'You are constantly under the effects of haste'. Like...seriously...almost every character would get that feat...and that's pretty much what Eternal Potion does.

However, while an 'Eternal Potion of Haste' is certainly a good choice for the Mr. Hyde build, I would honestly encourage players to select the 'Eternal Potion of Good Hope' instead. I mean, getting a constant +2 morale bonus to just about EVERY is a really sweet deal, and its made even better if you get a +4 Courageous Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Granted, while I know you'll have to wait until level 16 or 17 to pull this off, getting a constant +4 moral bonus to pretty much EVERYTHING is a pretty darn sweet deal.

Aside from discoveries and feats, selecting the proper extracts can also really help to redefine your build as well. Here are a few of my personal suggestions...

Enlarge Person
Thorn Body
Ablative Barrier
Greater False Life (More HP is ALWAYS good)
Fluid Form
Greater Invisibility
Delayed Consumption
Giant Form 1 (always pick a Troll)
Statue (Can be very creative in the right hands)
Twin Form

If your DM allows you to buy potions of high caster level (such as 20th level Greater Magic Fang) then Alchemical Allocation is also a good choice as well. Keep in mind though, that many GMs might simply rule that you can only buy potions of minimum caster level (which essentially gimps the alchemical allocation extract pretty hard). Still, this isn't to say that it isn't without its uses, it just won't be as crazily effective.

Anyways, I hope you all enjoyed the thread. Feel free to post comments and opinions as you like.

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Alright, because I am so in love with making a character who specializes in 'unarmed strikes' (and yes, that includes natural attacks), I decided to go ahead and post my advice for constructing a very effective 'unarmed' Barbarian. I will try my best to explain in detail the progress of the barbarian, as well as provide excellent equipment choices and an analysis of the appropriate rage powers. And so, with that being said, let us start with the feats first...

Feats (FYI, this progress assumes that you are human)
1. Power Attack, Raging Vitality
3. Improved Unarmed Strike
5. Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Double Slice
11. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
13. Raging Brutality
15. Two-Weapon Rend
17. Hammer the Gap (When making 10 attacks, this feat just pays for itself)
19. Toughness (Or Desperate Battler if you REALLY want more damage).

To start things off, I'd like to explain why I feel that a human is the perfect race for this sort of build: 1) You REALLY need the extra feat. Believe it or not, making an unarmed striking two-weapon fighting barbarian REALLY does require a large feat investment, and being a human can also give you plenty of versatility when powering up your attributes. 2) The favored class option for a human barbarian is EXTREMELY powerful, as it really does power up your Superstitious bonus.

Now then, lets move on to your rage powers...

Rage Powers
2. Beast Totem, Lesser
4. Superstition
6. Reckless Abandon
8. Beast Totem
10. Beast Totem, Greater
12. Ghost Rager
14. Witch Hunter
16. (Whatever you like)
18. (Whatever you like)
20. (Whatever you like)

Typically speaking, I would normally encourage anyone to go with the Invulnerable Rager archetype, as I personally find it to be one of the strongest archetypes a barbarian can choose. That being said, I'm sure many of you are wondering "Why didn't I add 'Come and Get Me' rage power" to the list of rage powers we could choose from. Well, in my experience, when building the 'unarmed striker' barbarian, the Come and Get Me rage power really doesn't help as much.

The trick about the unarmed striker is that it typically won't hit nearly as hard as the classic 'two-handed' barbarian (who is more than likely workin' the crit as well). However, while our individual strikes don't hit as hard, the sheer number of our attacks more than makes up for that (especially when combined with the right items).

Now, for items, here are a few of them that I would recommend...

+1 Brawling armor (any light armor will do, but you should typically choose something that can hold your Dex. I basically go with Haramaki personally) - For a mere 4,153 gp, you can get a powerful +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with unarmed strikes, which is obviously very powerful.

+3 Courageous Furious Amulet of Mighty Fists (yea, i know, late game item...but you can still buy a Furious Amulet of Mighty Fists for fairly cheap) - Basically when you rage, you get a +5 enchancement bonus to all your unarmed strikes and natural attacks (which helps to overcome DR...and don't you DARE say that it doesn', and you also get huge boosts from your moral bonuses as well.

Monk's Robes - I won't lie, this item is kinda optional. I mean, upgrading your 1d3 to a 1d8 is pretty sweet, but variable damage really isn't all that important. Still, if you have the spare gold, I'd probably buy it.

Ring of Rat Fangs - You need all the natural attacks you can get, and while I realize that you could probably just take the Animal Fury rage power, buying the item (in my opinion) seems a lot more convenient since it frees up room for other rage power options at lower levels.

Ring of Evasion - Your Dex should be huge (especially from Superstition), so you should almost NEVER fail a reflex save.

Now, as far as the build is concerned, your initial 5 levels will start out somewhat basic. Essentially, you wanna go ahead and grab a two-handed weapon level 1 (probably with some spears for good ranged attacks as well). When you reach level 2 and obtain your claw attacks, you can basically just drop your two-handed weapon and fight with your claws whenever you rage. By level 3, you can continue to use your two-handed weapon, but now you have the option of adding your 'unarmed strikes' with your claws whenever you activate rage. By level 5, you should be strictly sticking to your unarmed strikes from this point onward.

The reason I like this build so much is because nothing is wasted: every aspect of the barbarian's rage powers are used to the fullest with this sort of setup, and ironically enough, it actually proves to be very effective. The best part though is that with the Superstition bonus, combined with the favored class option, Courageous bonus, and Ghost Rager basically almost become immune to casters:

You will almost never fail a save, and I'm fairly certain that a caster will never hit your touch AC either.

Anyway, I hope this post was insightful, and feel free to leave comments if you like. Thanks again for reading, and take care :)

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Glad we're still finding humor in this ;)

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To my knowledge, the best 'unarmed striker' in the game is probably the Barbarian (maybe summoner synthesist...and alchemist also has a chance of competing as well).

A barbarian has his rage, raging brutality (which is purely sick), gets natural attacks through rage powers, gets better saves then the fighter (and arguably better saves then the monk if built correctly), AND has pounce.

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Just figured I'd help to point out a neat little trick for the lonely barbarians out there. Now, to start things off, you'll need to get these properties on your weapon:

Furious + Courageous

After that, get the weapon's 'enhancement bonus' to a +4 (which would be +6 when you rage).

Now, according to Courageous, half of your weapons enhancement bonus gets added on to all of your moral bonuses.

Therefore, since Rage (and the Superstition rage power), all give moral bonuses...this is basically what you're looking at:

An additional +3 moral bonus to Strength, Constitution, and saves vs. spells (or just a +3 moral bonus to Will saves if you don't have Superstitious).

And then, if you REALLY wanna abuse your weapon, get the Desperate Battler feat.

Desperate Battler - When no ally is within 10 feet of you and you are not receiving benefits from the aid another action, you gain a +1 morale bonus on melee attack and damage rolls.

Your weapon would thus give you an additional +3 moral bonus to your attack and damage rolls (equaling a +4 moral bonus to hit and damage just from this single feat).

pretty cool no? ;)

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Headband of Ariel Agility +6 (81,000gp) - it's pretty expensive, but it does give you constant fly (which compared to Wings of Flying at 54,000, this is actually a pretty decent buy).

Cap of the Free Thinker (12,000 gp) - note sure if this was mentioned yet, but rolling twice for saves is always good (and anything that calls for a will save is more than likely mind-effecting).

Headband of Fortune's Favor (7,700gp) - Adds a constant luck bonus to saves (never really a bad investment).

Gauntlets of Skill at Arms (30,000gp) - not sure if this is worth it, but these gauntlets do two things: 1) gives you exotic weapon proficiency for elven weapons, or 2) give you a constant competence bonus to hit and damage.

Cloak of Fangs (2,800gp) - grants a resistance bonus and a nice extra attack. (probably not worth the price, but still not terrible)

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Alrighty, after looking over the fighter, I realized that making an unarmed striker would actually be very fun and easy. However, out of all the archetypes that I could choose from, the Lore Warden stood out the most. Why? Because the benefits are absolutely amazing!

1) Your CMB and CMD get outrageously high.
2) You actually get an enormous number of class skills.
3) More skill points mean you can do more from a roleplay perspective.
4) I will always welcome Combat Expertise over Bravery (especially since you can now easily qualify for a lot of good feats).

My basic gear will look something like this...

Monk's Robe
Mithral Breastplate (with Brawling property)
Dueling Gloves
Feather Step Slippers
Spectral Shroud

As you can see, I'm sort of optimizing for damage, and my feats will also be going into Two-weapon fighting and unarmed strikes. I've considered taking Combat Reflexes combined with Viscous Stomp and Greater Trip (provoking 2 attacks of opportunity on a successful trip, which is just plane nuts). I also want to add as many natural attacks to this build as possible (which is one reason why I haven't decided on the race yet).

Also, I'm looking for any items (aside from headband of intelligence of course) or feats that can give me more skill points or benefit my knowledge rolls.

And finally, if someone has a link to a Lore Warden guide or something, that would be great. :) Any help is always appreciated, and thanks again.

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Okay, after looking through the threads, I decided to go ahead and figure out if Wisdom should even be considered as an essential Monk Stat. Now, in order to start this off, we first need to consider what all that the Wisdom stat provides to the monk (excluding bonuses to skills and increases to Will saves of course). In addition, I will also explore the pros and cons of wearing armor. Therefore, let us begin...

Pathfinder SRD wrote:
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

Okay, so if you wear armor or use a shield, this is what you lose:

1) Wisdom to AC and the bonus AC gained through level progression. (This isn't really a problem for several reasons: a) In the long run, AC won't really matter. b) if you wear armor or use a shield, you can EASILY make up for this loss of AC. and c) armor and shields can provide you with many more benefits, but we'll get to that in a bit).

2) Fast Movement. (This ability is actually useful, but in the long run, not really an issue. If you want more speed, Boots of Striding and Springing, anything that lets you fly, or even the haste spell can all compensate for this loss)

3) Flurry of Blows. (Basically a weird version of TWF with some bonuses to hit. Again, this is not really an issue, depending upon how you are building your monk. With the right feats, the loss of this ability can be easily replaced)

Okay, so now we have established what you lose by wearing armor, lets try and understand what you GAIN by it instead. Of course, before you ask, I realize that a monk is not proficient with any sort of armor. However, when you really think about it, the lack of proficiency is only detrimental IF the armor has an armor check penalty.

Therefore, if you eliminate the armor check penalty, there are NO penalties for wearing armor (aside from the ones mentioned above). Now, the obvious question is this: how do you reduce or eliminate armor check penalties? Well, here is just a small list of possibilities that I was able to find...

1) The 'Comfort' armor property (+5,000 gp) - reduces ACP by 1.

2) Mithral Armor - reduces ACP by 3 (and raise Max Dex of armor by 2).

3) Armor Expert trait - reduces ACP by 1

I'm sure there are other methods as well, but the monk should have access to all of the mentioned abilities above, which essentially totals to a -4 for the armor check penalty. In addition, Mithral also makes any medium armor made of metal count as 'light' armor. Thus, at the end of the day, we can conclude this...

A monk is perfectly capable of wearing medium mithral armor without incurring any penalty to attacks, skills, speed, etc, so long as he can reduce the armor check penalty to zero.

Surprisingly enough, almost all medium armor can be reduced to 0 armor check penalty using the above mentioned methods. However, I'm sure someone is going to say "what if I have a high dexterity? Won't I miss out on increasing my AC through dexterity if I wear armor?"

To that I say...take a look at Celestial Armor: max dex of +8 with a -2 armor check penalty. Just slap on your armor expert trait with the comfort property (or arguably just make it mithral) and presto! Your armor will afford you all the Dex you need.

Then again, if you are STILL able to get your dexterity higher than that, just get a haramaki and call it a day.

Anyways, now that we have established the use for armor, let us take a look at a monk who uses shields. As before, the same restrictions apply, so if you reduce the ACP to zero, you take no penalty. With shields, this is actually very easy - just make them all mithral. Doing so allows a monk to wield ANY shield (except tower shields) without a problem.

Now, some of you might be thinking: "how can I two-weapon fight with a shield in my hand?" The answer is easy - if you're using unarmed strikes, just use your feet. This allows you to wield a buckler or a shield in your hand without penalty while still utilizing two-weapon fighting. Pretty neat trick right? ;)

The next step in this process is figuring out what type of properties to put on your armor/shield (which is very important considering that you gave up quiet a bit to get this stuff in the first place). For shields, I seriously recommend getting Heavy Fortification (honestly, there really isn't any other property that is better than this...75% chance to ignore crits and sneak attacks is just too good). As for armor, just get the 'brawling' property and then customize your armor in any way you like (honestly, there aren't that many useful '+' properties in pathfinder in my opinion, but if you have access to the magic item compendium from 3.5, there are a lot of good options there).

With the inclusion of enhancement bonuses, combined with a high enough dex, your AC should be relatively equal (if not higher) then the AC granted by a Wisdom based monk with no armor (of course, bracers of armor can change that). Still, lets take a moment and look at some math...

+7 AC from wisdom (36,000 gp from wisdom headband) +7 AC from dexterity (36,000 gp from dex belt) and +8 AC from bracers (64,000 gp) = 22 AC

then we have...

+9 armor (22,400 gp from Celestial Chainmail) +7 AC from dexterity (36,000 gp from dex belt) + 6 shield (25,000 gp for enhancement bonus) = 22 AC

Statistically, it is actually CHEAPER to increase your AC through armor.

Again, this is all assuming that you actually care about your AC to begin with, because as we all know, AC kinda becomes less important as you progress in level. However, given the benefits that armor and shields can give you, I would still say that Monk AC is kinda sub-par.

At this point, I would now make the argument that Wisdom should also be considered a 'dump stat' for the monk, and my reason for saying this is simple: the only thing that wisdom controls (aside from the Monk AC) is the effectiveness of your stunning fist, quivering palm, and the amount of Ki points in your Ki Pool (there are a few other things too, but the mentioned abilities are primarily the main the ones).

I would first like to point out that there are many archetypes that eliminate these abilities to begin with (in fact, there are even some archetypes that eliminate flurry, fast movement, and monk AC as well). However, even so, there are still a few things that you need to keep in mind...

1) You will still get Ki points based on your monk level (granted, it's not a lot, but to be honest, it really wasn't a whole lot to begin with anyway...and their are archetypes that let you regain Ki in a lot of easy ways)

2) i have rarely seen ANYONE use quivering palm to begin with, and while it is a neat 'death attack', its usefulness is somewhat limited (in my opinion).

3) Stunning fist is limited in its uses per day, and is mainly used to disable things with a low fortitude save. It's not a bad ability, and it does have uses, but I wouldn't consider it a vital skill.

Therefore, if your goal is to make the 'unarmed monk' who basically beats face all day, then wisdom really should be dropped as a dump stat. In fact, if you decide to go ahead and wear armor, you could even make a monk who is basically a fighter (not sure why you would go this route and not just go fighter, but meh, to each his own).

Then again, if you wanted to just go straight fighter, you could always just use this combination...

Brawling armor + Monk's Robes + weapon training (natural) + all those crazy feats that increase damage = .....yea...a fighter is hands down a better unarmed striker than the monk.

I suppose this just means that people should really just look at the monk as a supportive class if nothing else. If you take it for the 'unarmed strike damage'....well, you're just gonna get outdone. I guess the roll of the monk is to provide some sort of 'martial class battlefield control' where you focus on particular targets and disable them....but as I said, if you're looking for raw damage, just go fighter.

Either way, having a monk with armor is perfectly viable, and in the end, you don't lose anything all that important (especially when you eliminate some of those abilities by using various archetypes). Anyway, I hope this post was able to help. Take care everyone, and thanks again for reading. :)

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I was a bit confused by this, so I was hoping someone could clear it up for me...

Upon casting this spell, you keep your relative form, but you and your equipment become composed entirely of dust. While in this dust form, you take no penalties for squeezing, and can move through spaces as if you were a creature three size categories smaller without penalty. You are also considered incorporeal, though any nonmagical attack you make deals half damage (50%). Magic attacks are unaffected, and you can still use your magic items and other equipment as normal. If the duration ends in a square that your normal space cannot occupy, you take 3d6 damage and are shunted to the nearest open space that you can normally occupy.

Okay, from what I can tell, you don't lose any of your gear (unlike most polymorph spells, or spells that turn you 'incorporeal') but what I'm not sure about is this...

Do you keep your natural AC, or do you gain the deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier?

Do your attacks now ignore natural armor, shields, and armor just like incorporeal attacks do?

Do you get to move silently and not be heard with Perception checks like other incorporeal?

Since incoporeal creatures have no strength score, do you use your dexterity modifier for melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB like other incorporeal?

I'm assuming you still take half-damage from non-ghost touch weapons, but is this correct?

Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks again.

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I'm not sure if this trick has been pointed out yet, but I figured I might as well share with everyone since it's something that I found 'immensely' gratifying. However, before I explain the combo, I'll first introduce the tools to show everyone how it works...

First we look at 'mummification', a 10th level alchemist discovery.

Pathfinder SRD wrote:
Mummification- The alchemist has mastered preserving flesh and applied this knowledge to his own body, turning himself into an undead-like creature. After learning this discovery, the alchemist must perform a 30-day regimen of a special diet, rigorous exercise, and drinking a mildly poisonous alchemical tea. At the end of this regimen, he falls unconscious for 24 hours, then awakens as a “living mummy.” The alchemist’s type does not change, but he becomes immune to cold, nonlethal damage, paralysis, and sleep.

And then we look at a '2nd level' alchemist extract known as Ablative Barrier.

Pathfinder SRD wrote:
Ablative Barrier- Invisible layers of solid force surround and protect the target, granting that target a +2 armor bonus to AC. Additionally, the first 5 points of lethal damage the target takes from each attack are converted into nonlethal damage. Against attacks that already deal nonlethal damage, the target gains DR 5/—. Once this spell has converted 5 points of damage to nonlethal damage per caster level (maximum 50 points), the spell is discharged.

I've highlighted the important parts, but basically here is the trick: Ablative Barrier lasts for hours per level, which means by 10th level (when you get mummification) you can ignore up to 50 points of lethal damage, and it doesn't even count as damage reduction.

....holy crap.

Also, if you add things like Spontaneous Healing, along with any form of DR, or maybe the Greater False Life just one hard fellow to kill. :)

It's just a cool way to get DR 5/- without 'actually' having DR (all for only a 2nd level extract)

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I'm actually surprised the guide didn't list Stalwart and Improved Stalwart as potential feats for the barbarian.

If my math is right, if you are a 12th level Invulnerable rager (DR 6/- using Combat Expertise with Improved Stalwart (+ DR 8/-, and also have taken Improved Damage Reduction 3 times (+ DR 3/-), you now have...

DR 17/- at level 12 when raging and using combat expertise.

Add in Ring of Shield Friend?

That Dragon of yours is BARELY scratching you ;)

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Alright, so I've been attempting to condense the skill list for Pathfinder a bit and this is new set of skills is what I've constructed thus far:

Acrobatics – Balance, Tumble, Jump
Athletics – Climb, Swim
Bluff – Same
Craft – Same
Diplomacy – Same
Disable Device – Same
Disguise – Same
Escape Artist – Same
Intimidate– Same
Knowledge Arcana – same
Knowledge Dungeoneering – same
Knowledge Engineering – same
Knowledge Local – same
Knowledge Anatomy – heal, torture, poison cure, etc
Knowledge History – includes knowledge nobility
Knowledge Nature – same
Knowledge Planes – same
Knowledge Religion – same
Linguistics –same
Perception – same
Perform – same
Profession – same
Ride – same
Sense Motive – same
Spellcraft – same
Stealth – same (but improvements to using it in combat)
Survival – includes knowledge geography
Use Magic Device – Same

I was curious if anyone could help me condense or expand this list any further. Some things I've been thinking about eliminating are profession, craft, perform, disguise (and make it part of bluff), and maybe even knowledge history. Again, all help is appreciated.

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Well, continuing with my revision list, I've also gotten the chance to finish up the Rogue class as well. Again, for anyone who hasn't viewed my "Barbarian Revised*" thread, my goal is to basically expand class features while still giving the player an enormous amount of customization while still staying true to the theme of the class.

Now then, as man of you might know, the rogue has been in a desperate need for a revision, and I honestly believe that I have finally found the formula for making it a fun and balanced class. Again, all comments, critiques, and suggestions are welcomed. Also, it is important to think of these revised classes as combinations of all almost all the arch-types. Therefore, the rogue has basically been given elements from the bard, ninja, and assassin classes (I know this might not sit well with some of you, but please review the class before making any hasty judgments). Thanks again.



Hit Die: d8

Average BAB

Fort Saves: Poor
Reflex Saves: Good
Will Saves: Poor

Class Skills: The rogue’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, kama, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. They are proficient with light armor but not with shields.

Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue's attack deals extra damage (called "precision damage") anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Trapfinding: A rogue adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Rogue Talent: As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains one rogue talent and gains an additional rogue talent for every 2 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. Unless otherwise stated, a rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once. Talents marked with an asterisk add effects to a rogue's sneak attack. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made. The following are the list of talents a rogue can select:

Bleeding Attack* (Ex): A rogue with this trick can cause living opponents to bleed by hitting them with a sneak attack. This attack causes the target to take 1 additional point of damage each round for each die of the rogue’s sneak attack (e.g., 4d6 equals 4 points of bleed). Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleed damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleed damage bypasses any DR the creature might possess.

Crafty (Ex): Once per day, the rogue can roll two dice while making a Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Sense Motive check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the check. A rogue can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 rogue levels she possesses.

Ghost Step (Su): As a swift action, a rogue with this talent can pass through walls as if she were a ghost. Until the end of her turn, she can pass through a wall or other surface that is up to 5 feet thick per level as if she were incorporeal. This talent can only be used three times per day. A rogue must be at least 12th level before selecting this talent.

Crippling Strike* (Ex): A rogue with this talent can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. A rogue must be at least 10th level before selecting this talent. Combat Trick: A rogue that selects this talent gains a bonus combat feat. A rogue can select this talent up to three times.

Startling Strike* (Ex): When a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, the target is shaken and cannot take a 5-foot step for one round.

Expert Movement (Ex): When making jump checks, the rogue is always considered to have a running start. Also, when the rogue uses Acrobatics to move at full speed through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity, the DC of the Acrobatics check does not increase by 10. And finally, a rogue with this talent can move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty.

A Touch of Rage (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to enter a rage-like state for 6 rounds a day as a free action. While in this state, a rogue gains a +2 moral bonus on attack and damage rolls and a +2 moral bonus on Will saves. Like a barbarian, a rogue cannot use this talent while fatigued or exhausted, although she still retains the ability to use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skill, and can also use any ability that requires patience or concentration (in essence, she functions normally). A rogue can end this rage as a free action. Upon exiting this rage, the rogue is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in rage.

Ground Crawler (Ex): While prone, a rogue with this ability can move at half speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. A rogue with this talent can take a 5-foot step while crawling. In addition, a rogue can also stand up from a prone position as a free action. This still provokes attacks of opportunity for standing up while threatened by a foe.

Opportunist (Ex): Once per round, the rogue can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as an attack of opportunity for that round. Even a rogue with the Combat Reflexes feat can't use the opportunist ability more than once per round.

Resiliency (Ex): Once per day, the rogue can roll two dice while making an Acrobatics, Climb, Sleight of Hand, or Swim check, and take the better result. She must choose to use this talent before making the check. A rogue can use this ability one additional time per day for every 5 rogue levels she possesses.

Shadow Clone (Su): As a standard action, a rogue can create 1d4 shadowy duplicates of herself that conceal her true location. This ability functions as mirror image, using the rogue’s level as her caster level. This talent can only be used three times per day. In addition, when a rogue uses this talent and is at least 10th level or higher, she can create an addition 1d4 duplicates.

Slow Reactions* (Ex): When a rogue with this talent deals sneak attack damage to a creature, her target is entangled and cannot make attacks of opportunity for 1 round.

Sudden Disguise (Su): As a swift action, a rogue can change her appearance for 1 minute per level. This ability functions as disguise self. This talent can only be used three times per day. In addition, when a rogue uses this talent and is at least 10th level or higher, the duration of this talent increases to 10 minutes per level rather than 1 minute per level.

Vanishing Trick (Su): As a swift action, a rogue can disappear for 1 round per level. This ability functions as invisibility, and can only be used three times per day. In addition, when a rogue uses this talent and is at least 10th level or higher, she is treated as if she were under the effects of greater invisibility instead.

Unbound Steps (Su): Whenever a rogue with this talent uses the light steps class feature, she can walk on air, rising or descending as she desires. She must end her move on a solid surface. A rogue must be at least 10th level before selecting this talent.

Expert Accuracy (Ex): A rogue with this talent uses d8s to roll sneak attack damage instead of d6s. A rogue must be at least 12th level before selecting this talent.

Dispelling Attack* (Su): Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a rogue with this ability are affected by a targeted dispel magic, targeting the lowest-level spell effect active on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. A rogue must be at least 12th level before selecting this talent.

Defensive Roll (Ex): With this talent, the rogue can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. When a rogue would take damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability) she can attempt to roll with the blow to reduce the damage. To use this ability, the rogue must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the rogue's evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll. A rogue can use this ability three per day, and must be at least 10th level before selecting this talent.

Offensive Defense* (Ex): When a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, the rogue gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each sneak attack die rolled for one round. This dodge bonus only applies against the creature the rogue sneak attacked, and the dodge bonus does not stack with itself.

Deadly Range (Ex): A rogue with this talent increases the range at which she can apply her sneak attack damage by 5 feet. This range increases by 5 feet for every 3 levels after 3rd.

Silencing strike* (Ex): A rogue with this talent uses her sneak attack to injure an enemy’s throat. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks cannot speak or vocalize for 1 round.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A rogue with this talent can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a rogue can hide herself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

Poison Expert (Ex): A rogue with this talent can apply poison to a weapon as a move action, instead of a standard action, and cannot accidentally poison herself when applying poison to a weapon. In addition, when a rogue uses this talent and is at least 10th level or higher, she can apply two doses of poison to a weapon at once. These can be separate poisons, in which case they both affect the target individually, or two doses of the same toxin, in which case the poisons’ frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC increases by +2. This talent is an exception to the rule that injury poisons can only be delivered one dose at a time.

Slippery Mind (Ex): A rogue with this talent can, as an immediate action, reroll a failed Will save. This talent must be used after the first save is attempted, but before the results are revealed by the GM. The rogue must take the second result, even if it is worse. A rogue must be at least 12th level before selecting this talent.

Improved Evasion (Ex): A rogue with this talent takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, and henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Limited Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Once the spell has been selected, it cannot be changed. Prerequisites: INT 11.

Magic Adept (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 2nd-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 12 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Once the spell has been selected, it cannot be changed. Prerequisites: INT 12, Limited Magic.

Gifted Magician (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 3rd-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 13 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Once the spell has been selected, it cannot be changed. Prerequisites: INT 13, Magic Adept.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her. If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Light Steps (Ex): At 6th level, a rogue learns to move while barely touching the surface underneath her. As a full-round action, she can move up to twice her speed, ignoring difficult terrain. While moving in this way, any surface will support her, no matter how much she weighs. This allows her to move across water, lava, or even the thinnest tree branches. She must end her move on a surface that can support her normally. She cannot move across air in this way, nor can she walk up walls or other vertical surfaces. When moving in this way, she does not take damage from surfaces or hazards that react to being touched, such as lava or caltrops, nor does she need to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling on slippery or rough surfaces. Finally, when using light steps, the rogue ignores any mechanical traps that use a location-based trigger.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked. This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Jack of All Trades (Ex): At 12th level, a rogue can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. At 15th level, a rogue considers all skills to be class skills. At 18th level, a rogue can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed.

Master Strike (Ex): At 16th level, a rogue can spend 1 round to study an enemy as a standard action. On the following round, if the rogue makes a sneak attack against that enemy, that enemy must make a Fortitude save (DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue’s level + the rogue’s Intelligence modifier) or suffer one of the following effects of the rogue’s choice:

• The target is put to sleep for 1d4 hours.
• The target is paralyzed for 2d6 rounds.
• The target is slain.

On a successful save, the target still takes sneak attack damage as normal, but is immune to the rogue’s Master Strike ability for 1 day.

Unrivaled Luck (Ex): At 20th level, a rogue can take a 10 on all Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. Additionally, once per round, whenever a rogue successfully hits an enemy with a melee or ranged attack within 30 feet, she can automatically apply sneak attack damage against that target even if it wasn’t flanked or denied its dexterity bonus to AC. This ability also works on creatures that are normally immune to precision damage.

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Luminiere Solas wrote:

i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.

I won't even lie...this post touched my heart in ways no one will ever understand.

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Hey everyone. I just figured I'd take this time to show you all a very unique build for the Gunslinger that I'm currently designing for my next campaign. Basically this thread will show you how to optimize the power of using a single-hand firearm with attacks of opportunity. Now, before I get started, for those of you who do not think that the feat known as Rapid Reload does not reduce the time to reload advanced firearms, I'd like to draw your attention to the following text...

SRD wrote:
Loading Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms. In the case of two-handed firearms, you hold the weapon in one hand and load it with the other—you only need to hold it in two hands to aim and shoot the firearm. Loading siege firearms requires both hands, and one hand usually manipulates a large ramrod (which can be wielded as a club in combat). The Rapid Reload feat reduces the time required to load one-handed and two-handed firearms, but this feat does not reduce the time it takes to load siege firearms.

And furthermore...

SRD wrote:
Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamber-loaded. It is a move action to load a one-handed or two-handed advanced firearm to its full capacity.

As I'm sure many will argue, by RAW, the rules do not allow Rapid Reload to reduce the loading time for Advanced firearms. However, I think we can all agree that the Rapid Reload feat WAS intended to reduce the time all the same. In addition, if we all decided to follow the RAW for our rulings, then I suppose many of you are going to tell me that the Pistolero gets to add their dex to damage TWICE: once from Gun Training, and again from Pistol Training...since it does not explicitly state that one training replaces the other.

Now then, as far as the Pistolero is concerned, it is my belief that rapid reload DOES work with advanced firearms and reduces them to a free action to reload, and it is also my opinion that Pistol Training DOES replace Gun training for the Pistolero. I hope that helps to clear everything up.

Anyways, seeing as how we've gotten all THAT out of the way, allow me to share with you all a very unique build for the Gunslinger that I personally feel holds a lot of flavor and a great deal of damage potential. Here's how we break it down

The Feats:
1. Deadly Aim, Point-Blank Shot
3. Rapid Reload
4. Rapid Shot
5. Precise Shot
7. Weapon Focus
8. Snap Shot
9. Improved Snap Shot
11. Signature Deed (Up Close and Deadly)
12. Combat Reflexes
13. Hammer the Gap
15. Clustered Shots
16. Deft Shootist Deed
17. Toughness
19. Improved Precise Shot
20. (Whatever you want)

Basically with this build, you will be able to dish out a good amount of damage, threaten up to 15 feet for attacks of opportunity, make every shot add precision damage to your weapon (due to Up Close and Deadly), and also fire your ranged weapon at melee combatants without provoking attacks of opportunity. Other feats such as Hammer the Gap, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, and Clustered Shots should allow you to stack on an absurd amount of damage (even against creatures with DR...especially when you consider the great combo of Hammer the Gap and Clustered Shots).


Revolver - Craft this sucker as soon as possible. It will cost you 2,000 gp and 2 days worth of work (3 if you count ammunition) but the fact that it is an advanced firearm will more than make up for these drawbacks. In addition, it never hurts to have a back-up weapon, so you might as well make two.

Celestial Armor/Bracers of Armor: Either one of these options will do, as they are basically the only type of armor that can support your dex. However, a mithral chain shirt is rather cheap (1,100 gp), and can support up to 6 dex...which should be sufficient for early levels.

Magic Items
Handy Haversack - this is by far the cheapest and most efficient way to carry lots of items, and is never a bad investment.

Glove of Storing - a great way to conceal your gun, and it allows you to draw your weapon without provoking attacks of opportunity as a free action. Moreover, its just very stylish to snap your fingers and produce your revolver out of thin air, so I would definitely take it.

Belt of Ability Enhancements - yeah, you pretty much take this for Dex and Con, as there is almost no reason to improve your strength.

Headband of Ability Enhancements - you really only need this for your wisdom, but extra skill points and a little boost to your charisma based skills aren't bad either.

Boots of Speed - more attacks, more movement, more AC, and more accuracy...enough said.

Cloak of Resistance - failing saves is don't fail them.

Hat of Disguise - so much utility in one little item.

Eyes of the Eagle - a cheap way to make sure you never fail a perception check.

Ring of Sustenance - make it harder for your GM to catch you while you're sleeping.

Ring of Protection - deflection bonuses are always good.

Weapon Properities
Collision - trust me when I say this: a revolver with the collision property will dish out A LOT of extra damage.

Parrying - for 8,000 gp you get +1 insight bonus to your AC and ALL your saves...yes please!


And that's about it! Again, I hope you all enjoyed this new take on the Gunslinger, and feel free to leave me any comments/suggestions you like. Take care :P

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I'm not gonna lie, this is by far one of the most BUSTED classes I have ever had to deal with in Pathfinder, and it really does make me ill that I ever allowed it in my campaign to begin with.

What I currently have issues with, specifically, is the Signature Deed ability combined with Lightning Reload, which effectively allows a gunslinger to reload their gun as a FREE action with a single barrel weapon that does NOT provoke attacks of opportunity. Combined with other crazy ranged feats like Rapid Shot (or joy...a -2 penalty on a range TOUCH attack...what a penalty), and the 'Deadly Aim' feat. I mean, sweet Jesus, I have never seen anything so stupid before in my life. And to add even MORE insult to injury, the archtype known as the Pistolero just makes things even more ridiculous (Up Close and Deadly and Pistol Training make the friggin damage of this class simply INSANE).

I have to ask, is there ANY errata, or is this class just that damn good?

Moreover, is anyone else having issues with this class (I mean, hell...imagine a Pistolero DUAL WIELDING their weapons...which only gives them a -4 penalty of course...but who cares...they are shooting with RANGED TOUCH ATTACKS with a FULL BaB AND they have an insane amount of DEX).

But yea...if anyone else understands this issues, please post your comments. I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.

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I agree, Battering Blast is rather confusing, but I appreciate the help. Again, I was hoping to try and understand if I'm interpreting the spell correctly.

Anyways though, regarding Magic Mace, it seems to imply that it 'replaces' the missiles from 'Magic Missile' with a touch attack (and the only explict change is changing d4s into d8s). Again, this leads me to believe that the damage of the 'Magic Mace' scales in damage the same way Magic Missile does (but again, looking for more clarification is all).

And yes, Molten Glass is confusing. I really am hoping that someone can come forward and explain it a little better, but I appreciate you looking at it all the same.

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Hey again everyone. It took me a long time, and a lot of trial and error, but I finally developed and converted a suitable Duskblade class for Pathfinder. As some of you might know, this class has been recreated in the forms of the Magus, Spellblade, Vanguard, etc for the Pathfinder Role Playing Game. However, after reviewing all those classes, I decided to take it upon myself to develop a variant that I think truly does give the Duskblade all the credit and power it deserves. I will post the class features first, and then go over the changes I've made for any possible discussion. So, without further ado, here is the Pathfinder Duskblade....


Hit Die: D8

BAB: Average

Fort: Good
Reflex: Poor
Will: Good

The Duskblade’s class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Planes) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Spells per Day
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1 — — — — —
2 — — — — —
3 — — — — —
4 1 — — — —
5 2 — — — —
5 3 — — — —
5 4 1 — — —
5 5 2 — — —
5 5 3 — — —
5 5 4 1 — —
5 5 5 2 — —
5 5 5 3 — —
5 5 5 4 1 —
5 5 5 5 2 —
5 5 5 5 3 —
5 5 5 5 4 1
5 5 5 5 5 2
5 5 5 5 5 3
5 5 5 5 5 4
5 5 5 5 5 5

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Duskblade.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A duskblade is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A duskblade can cast duskblade spells while wearing light armor, or while using a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a duskblade wearing medium or heavy armor still incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass duskblade still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spells: A duskblade casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell. They can cast any spell they know without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a duskblade must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a duskblade’s spell is 10 + the spell level + their Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a duskblade can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Their base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, they receive bonus spells per day if they have a high Intelligence score.

A duskblade’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A duskblade begins play knowing four 0-level spells and one1st-level spell of their choice. At each new duskblade level, he gains one or more new spells known, as indicated on Table: Duskblade Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a duskblade knows is not affected by his Intelligence score. The numbers on the Table: Duskblade Spells Known are fixed.)

Cantrips: Duskblades learn cantrips, or 0-level spells. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.

Arcane Bonded Weapon (Ex): At 1st level, a duskblade forms a powerful bond with a specific weapon. Should the duskblade ever have to replace the weapon (see below), he must choose another weapon of the same kind (longsword, dagger, short bow, etc.). This bond allows the duskblade to meld his arcane powers with his fighting ability. It also serves as an increasingly powerful magical weapon.

The duskblade begins play with his bonded weapon at no cost. This weapon is of masterwork quality, although it is not made of any special material. The duskblade must wield his bonded weapon in order to make use of its abilities. If a duskblade ever attempts to cast a spell without having his bonded weapon in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell’s level.

When holding his bonded weapon, the duskblade is treated as having the Eschew Materials feat, allowing him to cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component (his bonded weapon effectively takes the place of the material component). He may also cast spells that normally require somatic components solely through arcane gestures made using his bonded weapon. This allows the duskblade to cast spells while wielding his bonded weapon and still leaves his other hand free to handle a shield or other item.

Beginning at 5th level a duskblade can add additional magic abilities to his bonded weapon as if he had the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. This takes half the time of normal magic item creation but still incurs the full cost. The magic properties of a bonded weapon, including any magic abilities added to it, only function for the duskblade who owns it. If a bonded weapon’s owner dies, or the duskblade is separated from his bonded weapon and forced to replace it, the weapon reverts to being an ordinary masterwork weapon.

If a bonded weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the duskblade rests and regains his spell slots for the day. If the bonded weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 100 gp per duskblade level plus the cost of the masterwork weapon. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. A weapon replaced in this way possesses all the additional enchantments of the previous bonded weapon. A duskblade can designate an existing magic weapon to be his bonded weapon. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic weapon retains its abilities while gaining the standard benefits and drawbacks of being a bonded weapon, however it does not gain any of the additional enhancements that had been placed on the old bonded weapon.

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, a duskblade gains Arcane Strike feat as a bonus feat. At 5th level, a duskblade gains Combat Casting as a bonus feat. At 11th level, a duskblade gains Spell Penetration as a bonus feat, and at 17th level gains Greater Spell Penetration as a bonus feat.

Arcane Channeling (Su): A duskblade of 3rd level or higher can cast a spell with a range of touch and deliver it through an attack with his bonded weapon as part of a standard or full attack action. Touch spells channeled in this way must have a casting time of one standard action or less. If the duskblade hits with his bonded weapon, he does damage normally and then the touch spell is resolved. If the duskblade’s attack misses, the spell is lost. Channeling touch spells in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity. As with any touch spell, a channeled spell deals double damage on a successful critical hit. A channeled spell may not be enhanced or otherwise altered by metamagic feats.

At 8th level, a duskblade may make a concentration check as if casting defensively (DC 15 + double the spell’s level) in order to avoid losing the spell if the attack misses. The Duskblade can make other attacks (using other weapons) and take other actions without using the touch spell, but if he casts another spell or stops wielding his bonded weapon, the channeled spell is lost. A duskblade can also channel a second touch spell as part of a full attack action, although a duskblade cannot channel the same spell twice during a round, and can only channel one touch spell per attack at a time.

At 13th level, a duskblade can use his arcane channeling ability to deliver a different touch spell into each attack they make during that round. In addition, spells the duskblade channels are no longer lost if the attack misses (although the spell is still lost if he casts another spell, or if the duskblade stops wielding his bonded weapon).

Iron Ward (Ex): At 5th level a duskblade adds a bonus equal to half his duskblade level to his CMD as long as he is wielding his bonded weapon.

Armor Training (Ex): At 7th level, a duskblade gains proficiency with medium armor. A duskblade can cast duskblade spells while wearing medium armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a duskblade wearing heavy armor or using a heavy shield still incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.

Parrying (Ex): At 7th level, a duskblade’s bonded weapon gains the Parrying property as described in the Psionics Unleashed.

Stalwart (Ex): At 11th level, a duskblade can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If they make a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, they instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the duskblade is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor. A helpless duskblade does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability.

Mastery of Elements (Su): At 15th level, a duskblade can alter a spell when cast so that it utilizes a different element from the one it normally uses. This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor. The spell’s casting time is unaffected. This ability cannot be used if the duskblade is not wielding his bonded weapon.

Bonded Weapon Mastery (Su): At 19th level, a duskblade automatically confirms all critical threats with his bonded weapon, and his bonded weapon can no longer be the target of disarm or sunder attacks. At 20th level, the duskblade also gains Greater Penetrating Strike as a bonus feat (for their bonded weapon only) even if he does not meet the prerequisites for it.

Level Spells Known
0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 4 1 — — — — —
2nd 4 2 — — — — —
3rd 4 3 — — — — —
4th 4 4 1 — — — —
5th 4 4 2 — — — —
6th 4 4 3 — — — —
7th 4 4 4 1 — — —
8th 4 4 4 2 — — —
9th 4 4 4 3 — — —
10th 4 4 4 4 1 — —
11th 4 4 4 4 2 — —
12th 4 4 4 4 3 — —
13th 4 4 4 4 4 1 —
14th 4 4 4 4 4 2 —
15th 4 4 4 4 4 3 —
16th 4 4 4 4 4 4 1
17th 4 4 4 4 4 4 2
18th 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
19th 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
20th 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Whew...okay, now it's time to do some explaining (and hopefully I'll be able to make everything clear, lol). For starters, the concept for this class was mostly designed to combine elements of the Inquisitor, Vanguard, and various Fighter benefits into a class that utilizes a powerful array of spells and abilities suited for the bonded weapon. Essentially, the Duskblade class forms a powerful connection with his bonded weapon in order to benefit from incredible offensive and defensive abilities. I feel like this class offers a lot of flavor and is also very balanced, but I'll quickly try to describe why I gave it these class features nevertheless.

For starters, you may notice that the duskblade spell list is VERY limited, in that they only learn 24 spells total and can only cast 30 spells in a day at max level (not counting cantrips of course). The reasoning for this is to make the duskblade more narrow it's power sense it can now pick ANY spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

As for the duskblade's skills, I roughly based them off of an Inquisitor so that they could properly represent a 'worldly warrior' who had been trained in both the arcane arts and in combat.

Other abilities, such as Iron Ward, Parrying, and Mastery of Elements are all designed to represent the growing unity between the duskblade and his weapon. The pinnacle of this goal is ultimately realized at level 19 when the duskblade learns Bonded Weapon Mastery. However, in order to make a 20th level duskblade seem more appealing, I decided to throw in Greater Penetrating Strike to help offset the downside of not being able to construct the bonded weapon with a special material.

Stalwart also seems to make sense with the class, as a master of 'blade and spell' would normally seem to have the capacity to shrug off such adverse effects.

Now then, some of you might already be wondering why I decided to make this variant, and I'll be very happy to explain. You see, the majority of the abilities have been roughly based upon the Vanguard class feature found in Super Geniuses. However, when I investigated this class, I quickly found that it had several critical flaws in it that (in my opinion) made it completely unplayable.

For one, it required that all your spells be based off your CHARISMA rather than INTELLIGENCE. Furthermore, the class was ONLY proficient in light armor, making it very difficult for a player to build a caster/fighter to have any survivability in combat. With the revisions I added to this new Duskblade class, I feel that players would get a much more rewarding experience for using a 'simple' caster/fighter for their characters.

Anyways, please let me know what you guys think, or if you have any suggestions, comments, concerns, or questions. Thanks again for reading.