I know this is off topic buuuut
There's literally an entire school of cooking like this that merges chemistry and cooking >.> It's called Molecular Gastronomy >.>
Open Marriages Can indeed Work, as long as the individuals involved respect each other's boundaries and trust each other. The problem with most people is that those two things don't happen which just goes to show how fragile relationships can be in the first place >.< I've been in an open relationship for almost 13 years (this upcoming April 12th will be our 13th Anniversary), and our love for each other is as strong as when we first became a couple sooooo it can work >.>
I haven't read any posts here, just the title, my answer to that is HELL TO THE YES I Sure Freaking Would!!! Edit: Reading the First Post I'd Honestly prefer new to reprint/updated...
And I want a Harrowed Medium, like the Occult Adventures Playtest tantalized us with.... OMFG, Yes I STILL Soooo Fecking want that Harrowed Medium >.< So Freaking Badly
Don't you EVER even think about multiclassing. That never worked, except for munchkiny dipping to poach all the nice abilities. I'm sorry but I'd Like to dispute this Fact Immensely... Multiclassing WAS Never a trap option for me in PF1 (though I won't say that that's necessarily true for Full-Caster classes, though I did Enjoy my Shaman/Bloodrager character). If anything it almost Always accentuated into creating a better character and I'm one of those people, who because I came from 3.5 before it (where multiclassing too far would Penalize you) I would make multi-classed characters who were more evenly balanced between the classes... I won't get into the Feat-Classing of PF2e atm, because yeah I Absolutely Dislike that, but I don't wanna come off as too biased >.<
OP is totes sus
*Is sitting here wondering why people are complaining about point buy when she's only ever used dice roll for ability score generation* >.> P.S. Just looked at the ability generation systems of all 3 SF, PF1, & PF2 and... PF2 got rid of rolled ability scores all together... As if I couldn't like it any less O.o (Is still sore over the Multiclassing system cuz is someone who LIKES going 50/50[maybe a bit more like 45/55 or 65/35 but still, close enough].)
It's probably the same reason some think racial feats are new, but they are just not competing with other feats anymore. You say this but now there aren't Racial Packages either... Which makes Racial Feats NEED to have their own space... Which was kind of the point wasn't it? To make being a part of your race be backloaded a bit? >.> Honestly, I don't even understand why x.x
The races I'd Love to see are Kitsune, Ratfolk, Vanarans, Skinwalkers, Grippli, maybe Cecaelia... & I know my BFF would Love Catfolk.
I don’t think something such as class should be changed on a whim or even could be. If someone actually spent years ( or months of harrowing life experiences) trying to perfect a set of skills, I don’t think all that training would just vanish and could be traded in for another equally consuming set of skills. Sure, anyone’s viewpoint could be completely changed from circumstances, but those circumstances are more likely to color that person’s intrinsic world view, which would be covered by that person taking a multiclassing dedication. If someone wanted to rid himself or herself of all that knowledge, that experience, I would take that as a complete mind wipe and an effective character reset from level 1. Ok and the Ex-Rogue part? You know you gave up stealing, you gave up that life altogether, and yet... somehow... You're Still getting better at it, Despite You ACTIVELY Trying to steer clear of it... Yeah, that makes sense... Will those skills still be there when you first give it up? Yeah, yeah, they will, But they Shouldn't Be Getting Better. Then down the line, Down the Levels, They should be Atrophying if Anything, unless you've For some reason Despite wanting to give up that life, have decided its a good idea to keep those skills. Aka the Class Swap, the class Retrain... Because you turned your life around, You did it... Now you're this Other thing... Kinda like if I suddenly started spending less time gaming because I wanted to get in shape, and then I started feeling good with exercise, it empowered me, and I kinda stopped being a gamer and became a gymrat... Would it take time? Absolutely, should it be Possible? DEFINITELY
Loved: Multiclassing, and I mean putting 2 classes together for around 10 lvls each, and figuring out the proper balancing point. Do I want this lvl 13 ability? Do I want to give up this level 9 ability for it? That's how I built my characters. Absolutely Loved building them out to lvl 20 level by level whether I was playing a campaign with them or not, it always felt amazing... Wanted: More Hated: That we never got the Harrowed Medium... It's the same feeling that I got when David Hill left as lead designer of Changeling 2e over problems with the New White Wolf, and over time learned that we were getting Less than his 100 Kiths in the Core Rules... Then it came out and we got 12 and told here's how you make your own have fun... That's how having been there for the playtesting of the Original, the Harrowed Medium felt after getting what we got in the actual rulebook... Only WORSE because at least Onyx Path is coming out with Kith and Kin which will have more Kiths, whereas We Will NEVER get the Harrowed Medium... It is Gone FORever, because A) they've said as much and B) 1E is dead(as in not growing).......... Will Miss: Getting new Official Pathfinder 1E books and options...
From what I understand, fire, water, earth, and air kineticists all tap into their respective elemental planes. Aether, wood, and void are combinations of elemental and other planar energies. Void energy draws from the negative energy plane, which is the source of undeath. I will be honest I don't know where gravity comes in. Yep! Void Kineticists get their power from Elemental Energy meeting with Negative Plane Energy (and for some reason get Dark Tapestry motifs). Wood takes from The Elemental Energy meeting the First World's Primal Fey Life energy, & Aether is from the Ethereal Plane getting charged with Elemental Energy. On that notion I would guess Shaman would make a good primal caster - and since the preparing primal caster is already locked in maybe they become spontaneous - purely speculation here I like that especially since one of the base classes for the Shaman was the Oracle who is a spontaneous caster, it honestly makes good sense Witch. I need my hexes, yo. Once we have Witch I can cobble together a Shaman. The Shaman was more than just hexes though. Its familiar had special powers, it had a dedicated spirit that worked like the Oracle's mysteries, and then it also had Wandering Spirits so you could mix it up. The spirits and familiars are what truly gave the Shaman their flavor, not the hexes, at least in my opinion.
Animals, Plants, Oozes, Elementals, Outsiders, Dragons, Fey, Vermin/Swarms...
You know what throw my hat into the ring for people who want the Shifter back, though honestly, I like what the PF1 base class is, especially after the fixes and what they added to it in Wilderness Origins. I just Truly like that they can do things with their forms that Druids can't. Sure they have fewer forms to choose from, but they get more out of them. They're more Dedicated shifters, more dedicated to their forms, meanwhile, Druids are more versatile but get less out of their forms. Though saying that, for PF2 and its fewer but more flavorful feats, I can definitely see different in-depth Lines of powers based on the different "Archetypes" rather than the kind of choices you made in PF1's base class. Also, I got the reference XD
Shaman & Kineticist most definitely are my choices.
There was a Reason I deleted that Cyouni, I realized that and checked it for myself thanks. I did still have problems when I did the checking months ago, like going over Class Features in exchange for Class Feats (which is covered by Classic Multiclassing better in my opinion), but yes I give on the Class Feats at least being Equivalent, with the Feat Tax, thanks to the level 1 Class Feats. *Sighs* I think I'm just gonna bow out now, my game is dead as of next month, and PF 2e & D&D 5e both don't interest me for different reasons. If you want to know them, I gave my story... *points back a few of her posts* I'm a niche case that this game doesn't appeal to and that's fine it's its own game and I respect that, so I'm gonna stop now.
Honestly Edge I probably would have gone Alchemist instead in 1E, now I'd probably go Rogue in 2E... but my characters are Meant to be Dual Classed... I honestly NEVER Make a Solo-classed character, because finding weird ways to put 2 classes together and make them work is what Is Fun to me. That's partly why "Featclassing" brings me down... because I can't do that x.x I started multiclassing in 3.5 before I ever came to Pathfinder, even used APG class conversions to 3.5 from GitP threads back then (particularly Alch & Summ), and other homebrewed stuff... heck I'd build these 80 level giants just for the fun of it (4 full classes), then I saw how many shiny new toys Pathfinder had and I switched over to it (Note there was 7 year gap between when I actually got to play the two games). Eventually, I ground myself back down to 20 level builds where I thoroughly enjoyed balancing the classes around the 10 level mark each. This is how I find Multiclassing enjoyable, Dedications just don't do that for me x.x And forget 5e I Love Pathfinder currently and loved 3.5 when I first got into it in 2010, because of the Breadth of material available. Heck I multiclassed MoMS/Drunken Master Monk with Shield Champ Brawler & didn't use Pummeling Style, I used Dragon, Tiger, & Monkey(#VanaraThings)...
play an occultist with object reading. interrogate their clothes.You might even disturb them enough this way to get them to confess . . . . I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to your shirt! So sit back down till I'm ready to interrogate your pants!
As someone who is neurodivergent, Tsukiyo is now my personal deity >.>
For me it is the multiclassing system, I'd like to be able to do 1E style Multiclassing, or at least be able to put Multiclass Archetype Feats into my General Feat Slots. I don't find General Feats as meaningful, and I don't need them for Skill Feats because I have plenty of those regardless of class. I know they're looking into the bottleneck and I hope they come up with an idea much greater and more tied into their system than these.
That aside, I noticed that a lot of posts here that seem to basically only care about continuing 3.5 so I guess the question I have for you is, why did you not just continue to play 3.5? You had the material to last decades, probably longer. So why did you really put your faith and your wallets in a mid sized publishing company who was taking the single biggest risk they possibly could have taken? The answer to this question for me is, that I switched over from 3.5 (the edition I was introduced to D&D with), because Pathfinder allowed me to have the dearth of options I was trying to put into my games with Homebrewed stuff, just from Official Content. That and again, its customizability were strong draws for me. Maybe 2e has an extensive amount of options for styles of play like Ursus says... but I'd at least like it if Archetypes could use General Feat Slots, and not just Class Feat Slots (there's Only 5 of them, and I see that as a much better use than any of the General Feats, or more Skill/Ancestry Feats [Why Why are the races so Bare Boned and Backloaded, It takes away their identity to me, and makes it so later races will Far more Obviously have less options than Core Races... In 1E sure that is also true, BUT its not as apparent, because each Race has a core set of racial features... >.<]). Ongoing support. A game without support is dead This also was part of what drew me to Pathfinder, and part of why I've been freaking out about 2e, seeing the death of my favorite iteration of D&D. I wasn't there to see 3.5 end because I got introduced to it during the reign of 4e.
Ursus, I'm sorry but did you just throw out the Barbarian's & Monk's Class Feats? Because you said to take out the equivalencies right? And without those the Barbarian & Monk don't have Combat Feats, right? As for Multiclassing in general, I could make a Lot of different Multiclassed Builds from Fighters, Unchained Rogues(the equivalent to 2E's Rogue, because of class features the 2E was based on), Rangers, Cavaliers (currently an Archetype Only, so equivalency), Barbarians, Paladins, Alchemists (if the PF2 one is allowed, so should the original), Bards, Unchained Monks (the equivalent to 2E's Monk), and some Sorcerer levels (and mayhaps Dragon Disciple), to make some really fun Martial Builds. Now for PF2, you have "FeatClassing" & Class Feats, including what used to be Combat Feat Lines, competing for the same pool of options. In my opinion, this is far too constraining, and not Enough options for my liking (Hopefully they make the new Class Specific Archetype system modular off of the packages within the class, just adding more options to that). I actually made comparisons between PF2's "FeatClassing" and PF1 Style Multiclassing using the Playtest's Alchemist & Rogue, and the subsequent Archetypes. I may not have had as many Formulae, or Skill Feats as the "FeatClassed" version's base class would have, but I had FAR FAR more freedom in my Class Feats.
Dire Ursus, did you Specifically gloss over where I said that it really isn't right to compare the Playtest to Only the CRB of PF1, when they're jamming options from further along in 1E into 2E? I mean that was the biggest paragraph of the post you quoted. I personally think you should at Least include the APG because of how many of the options are from it (like Archetypes, the Alchemist, Barbarbain Class Feats[Rage Powers], Divine Version of the Sorcerer[Oracle], etc.).
Dire Ursus I like how you say that the character creation has been limited because core rulebook, when in the PF1 CRB, I can Multiclass between classes and still get more of my Feats & Rogue Talents, or just feats for my Fighter, than I can from the Playtest CRB. I also get more out of my Sorcerer Bloodline(not to mention more Bloodline Options), than I do in PF2. Most might not be Multiclassing (unless going with the Prestige Class Dragon Disciple which is very much an option In the CRB) for chance of losing Spells, but I know I would, because I honestly don't care about spells, those powers though... Some of them I might Love to have for a build. Also a number of the options from the Playtest are from Non PF1 CRB, so comparing CRB to CRB is a bad idea. The Barbarian's Totems & Class Feats are based off of Rage Powers which came in the APG, same as the entire Alchemist Class (Which I personally want more of the Thematic Odd Bodyshaping options of the Alchemist's Discoveries). Hell some of the things in the Playtest are based on Class Features from the ACG's Hybrid Classes, like the Ranger's new Hunt Target is based off the Slayer, or the Fighter's Combat Flexibility being based off the Brawler. So yeah, it's much better to compare the Playtest to more than just the 1E CRB, its not an equivalency because they learned from years of making PF1... Now if they just could have kept the Customizability of 1E instead of throwing so many options into one kettle, and bare boning the Races (Dwarves get it the worst, who thought untying their Slow Speed [20 ft when smaller races are 25, really?!?] from their Unburdened was a good idea).
For me its the level of customization I can get with this game, between Multiclassing that allows me to stop in one class to start up in another (which is now how I build my chars, taking the two classes I want from the beginning and figuring out what levels I want to get them to), Feats every other level, Archetypes that trade out class features for another package of themed features, talents that allow me to customize within my class, & the ability to trade out Racial features for other racial features that may fit better from the beginning (not to mention feats later that work off of those base features). This gives me Tons of things that allow me to customize my character to my liking, making it so that no one character is ever the same as another. Even if there are cookie cutter builds out there, and options that people consider as duds, it doesn't matter to me as long as those options actually work for my vision of my character. And that's something that the new version is lacking in.... Multiclassing, Class Archetypes, and Talents (now called Class Feats) are all, right now, seemingly based off of the same small pool... Half the options that make this game fun for me, are competing with each other, and that makes it very unfun... x.x PS: Then there's the fact that races have become pretty bare bones, in order to backload them... Don't even want to get into that.
I think the matter right now, has greatly shifted from Dwarven Armies/NPCs to Players, because regardless of Dwarven Army practices, Nothing is being done for fixing the Player Predicament. Right now all Dwarf Players, who want Heavy/Medium Armor and don't want to be slowed down to 10/15ft movement for it have to take Unburdened regardless of if another one of the heritages actually fit their character more. Congratulations, we now have either pigeonholed Dwarf PC's into either being the Slowest Martials (regardless of Armor Type), or have Forced them to take Unburdened.... Grats Cookie Cutter Option... There's a reason that Dwarves have always had Unburdened to mitigate their slower speed....
I'm glad this thread got started, it literally gave better reasoning/description for what my findings were about Multiclassing back in my thread. While my findings were specifically related to what I didn't like sure, it came out to be that "Featclassing" provided Far Less Freedom, which is clearly depicted as the Bottleneck of Class Feats. So thank you Archive for this thread, and actually getting the underlying issue I was seeing (even if I didn't know what I was looking at at the time) some recognition. Again, from the bottom of my heart Archive, Thank you.
Couldn't agree more! This is a problem I would Greatly like to be addressed.
This, this kind of idea is EXACTLY What I'm afraid of with "FeatClassing", I don't want complexity removed, why remove it? Because some people get Lost? They don't need to use those options then. Why lock me down because of these other people?
IMHO, for the "I want to do a career change" crowd, wouldn't making it possible to "retrain" the class like you can retrain feats be a possible solution? TBH, multiclassing per levels have always felt weird for me. The dedication feats feel much more natural I think. See I always start out a build Wanting to combine the two classes, I've Never made a straight up 1 Class character. Hybrid classes like in the Advanced Class Guide, Are to me just regular classes that I want to multiclass with (Barbarian/Shaman, Slayer/Vigilante, and Brawler/Monk to name a few) so that's not really an answer for me, and Neither is retraining. Also I think I've given ample reasoning as to why I don't like "FeatClassing", the main concern being the lack of freedom x.x
OK I rolled up characters for Multiclassed and as I'm calling it Featclassed version of my Rogue/Alchemist. Only really got to lvl 10 so far before becoming tired(physically, its late here), and I haven't bothered to actually grab Formulae or gear for either(didn't want to look through them for the former, and didn't want to use up my time on currency calcs on the latter)... I of course decoupled Ancestry(1st lvl)/Heritage, & Initial Proficiencies because they're 1st level only(and we don't need doubling on them). I also decoupled Ability Bonuses, & Ancestry/General Feat progression, because everyone gets them at the same level, and it would honestly feel kinda bad to lag behind in Ancestry Feats or Ability Bonuses, so I wanted to keep those separate. What I learned is, that the Trading out of Class Feats does limit them quite a bit even tried to just do them every other level with the Rogue Archetype. Really wish you could trade out General Feats instead, that would be awesome since I was really trying to find a reason for them(unless you can just straight up take Skill Feats with them, Then they'd be more useful). The Multiclassed came ahead in Skill Feats(obviously being part Rogue), as well as Rogue Feats & Alchemist Feats overall. What the FeatClassed gave me however was Far More Formulae (obviously, and which I should have looked through I admit it). I was however able to make a pretty decent Trap/Bomb Build with the Featclassed version, but the Multiclassed version was a Skirmisher, with Enhanced Bombs that had Splash based on Int, and more freedom in his feats. Now I do have to admit that starting off with 2 Lvls of Rogue and then 2 Lvls of Alchemist gave me 4 Class Feats up front, but as for the Abilities, since I had taken the Alchemical Crafting Feat first level (which was a Rogue lvl) as my Skill Feat, Advanced Alchemy became partly Redundant. Also in the long run my Bombs and Sneak Attack (since I was keeping them Even in leveling) would have each ended up only half that of a Max lvl Rogue or Alchemist at lvl 20, now give me 1 or 2 more Rogue levels instead of Alchemist levels(so 12/8), and I'd just be one Sneak Attack Short & Still 1/2 on the Enhanced Bombs.... I'd be left in the Dust for Formulae or Skills, and I'd Never be able to touch the Higher Lvl Feats(though I never expected to anyways), But I would still be having fun.
I don't think my meaning got across, Its not about wanting None of the features its about Cut Off Level. Like not wanting some of the later abilities. Take my Unchained Rogue Alchemist for example, I didn't want the Skill Unlocks but did want to try out the Debilitating Injury, and left the class before lvl 5. I however did want full access to the Alchemist Discoveries & the 2 Rogue Talents I could get (something I honestly can't fully replicate with 2E's Alchemist Class Feats, because some of the more esoteric options aren't there like multiple arms, or insectile wings, or tentacles, or mummification, etc. x.x) But I wanted a couple of the Rogue Talents, and the option to go back into it if I wanted.... I also however didn't care much for having extracts and played my character as a full on skill monkey martial with my Int and Dex in the 20's. Or how about my Brawler/Master of Many Styles Monk, I got Master of Many Styles so I could use multiple styles at once (used Turtle, Monkey, and sure Dragon) but I also wanted to be able to use the Shield Champion Archetype, Shield Champion Does Nothing for Monk, in fact it cuts off a number of its powers, but when I threw the shield I had full access to them and my Shield was spiked and could ricochet. Or how about my Barbarian/Shaman specifically Built to get a Mammoth Mount (thank you Half-Orc Racials), and the Mammoth Spirit, with pretty good use of my Mount and my Mauler Spirit Animal. My Problem is that I'm forced to take levels that maybe I don't want to take x.x
I'm gonna do exactly what I saw someone else do with another thread get some very negative thoughts out of my head. My biggest concern with the new system is the way that the Multiclassing works, as I saw someone mention in another thread that's been locked now, "the new system makes it so that you can have the features of another class without losing the features of your original class." Well my question is, what if I didn't want some of those features from my first class at all? What if I am Purposefully trying to opt out of those features? Do I not need a way to do that? What if the things I wanted were the Feats from the two classes more than anything else? What if I wanted to Multiclass just because I liked the Feats from the 2 classes I wanted to combine, and didn't necessarily care about the Baseline Features? Well then I guess that I am quite out of luck because I can't replace those baseline features just the Class Feats. Then there's the question of when the Class Specific Archetypes come out, will they be able to be Multiclassed into? I'm honestly having a hard time believing they will.... And these, THESE are my biggest gripes with the new system. I'm honestly not the kind of person who min maxed and munchkinized. Heck quite a few of my builds were far from it, But they were FUN to play regardless. Nerfing Multiclassing like this takes away a Lot of why I was having fun. Now! I agree that there were people who were abusing multiclassing, I agree that the classes are looking pretty good in comparison to the classes in 1E, carrying over a Lot of the flavor and even cannibalizing from the Hybrid Classes (looking at you Fighter & Ranger). But I don't Like playing Straight up classes, I never have. Now I know they shouldn't have to cater to one lone voice in the crowd like mine, but I'm sad and scared for the future, my future. I don't like 5E because of the lack of any Real support for it, and the classes kinda turn me off in comparison to 1E's and even 2E's (I like them I really do), and sticking around on a sinking ship isn't a real option, because there will be no support once 2E is out. Then there's PFS (which I do want to join, just not right now while in this Transition Period) which will Definitely be moving on to 2E once it's out. So I'm feeling really lost with no path forward...
My biggest concern with the new system is the way that the Multiclassing works, as I saw someone mention, whose post seems to have disappeared... The new system makes it so that you can have the features of another class without losing the abilities of your original class. Well my question is, what if I didn't want those abilities at all? What if I am Purposefully trying to opt out of those abilities? Do I not need a way to do that? What if the things I wanted were the Feats from the two classes more than anything else? What if I wanted to Multiclass just because I liked the Feats from the 2 classes I wanted to combine, and didn't necessarily care about the Baseline Abilities? Well then I guess that I am quite out of luck because I can't replace those baseline abilities just the Class Feats. Then there's the question of when the Class Specific Archetypes come out, will they be able to be Multiclassed into? I'm honestly having a hard time believing they will.... And these, THESE are my biggest gripes with the new system. I'm honestly not the kind of person who min maxed and munchkinized. Heck quite a few of my builds were far from it, But they were FUN to play regardless. Nerfing Multiclassing like this takes away a Lot of why I was having fun. Now! I agree that there were people who were abusing multiclassing, I agree that the classes are looking pretty good in comparison to the classes in 1E, carrying over a Lot of the flavor and even cannibalizing from the Hybrid Classes (looking at you Fighter & Ranger). But I don't Like playing Straight up classes, I never have. Now I know they shouldn't have to cater to one lone voice in the crowd like mine, but I'm sad and scared for the future, my future. I don't like 5E because of the lack of any Real support for it, and the classes kinda turn me off in comparison to 1E's and even 2E's (I like them I really do), and sticking around on a sinking ship isn't a real option, because there will be no support once 2E is out. Then there's PFS (which I do want to join, just not right now while in this Transition Period) which will Definitely be moving on to 2E once it's out. So I'm feeling really lost with no path forward...
hey now I prefer Werewolf the Forsaken myself *nods* Anyways I just want to throw in my two cents and say that what I'm most concerned about is the direction that Multiclassing is taking. I've never been one to min max or munchkinize, but I've also never been one to play a straight class... I like hybridizing even if some people might call it bad (like my Monk of Many Styles/Brawler Shield Champ), and the way that the current Multiclassing is headed Actively hurts my ability to easily Pick Class Feats from both classes (like my Rogue/Alchemist from 1E) and from what I'm seeing would keep me from being able to choose class archetypes from the second class (like the aforementioned Monk/Brawler). These are Things that Actively affect my want to play in 2E and along with worry about the backloading of racial abilities, factually gave me a panic attack tonight. I don't care if anyone picks apart what I'm saying in any way, or just dismisses me completely it doesn't matter because I needed to say my peace... For now I'm just going to try to forget about 2E and keep on keeping on with 1E & SF. x.x
Rysky, Life is about shades of gray, shades of gray bring far more nuance and ambiguity than hard lined black and white dichotomy between good and evil... Sure there's neutral in between, but know what? Everyone has their reasons for doing things, and no person is an island for we are All shaped by chance and circumstance.
I would alsolike ot point out, this thread as of this page is going down the road of all the other paladin threads Hey Steel, do you know why its going down that road? Its because HWalsh Dragged it that way..... Like he ALWAYS does. (haven't read the third page yet)
That's the first thing he came in and said, in a thread directly named: "What Would A CG Paladin Code Look Like?" and with his past history on these topics, yeah..... >.> And then he moved onto making an Argument that Specifically swayed in the favor of Law, without Ever trying to Actually Talk about what a Chaotic Good Champion, should have. Also I'm of an opinion that is very disappointed with Paizo, because while Ok, the Paladin is still only LG, and they conceded they'll make other Alignment Champions down the line, I can accept that. What really disappointed me though, is that they have decided to Lock the Defense Class to one Alignment by making that the Paladin, that is now Their Niche..... Which to me is rather Sad.
So both parties are getting what they want.... Just the Other Alignments party needs to wait for our day to come, wonderful x.x
lets see.... Acrobatics covers Acrobatics and Fly
That leaves Appraise, Knowledge(Engineering), and Profession.
Indeed in Pathfinder.
I state the Contrary, Law IS Public Opinion, and Chaos is about Individualism.
Sorry John John but Alchemists Are Not Casters, they create Alchemical Items, like elixirs and bombs, and potentially at lvl 18, Potions.
I would really Love to see the numbers on that Mark cuz to me, the Cleric was one of the most Boring 1E classes, all it had was a couple of domain powers, Channeling, and Spells, it didn't even have a capstone.
My problem here is that I'm seeing absolutely no mention of the cool grotesquerie discoveries that I attribute to the Alchemist class (and Absolutely Love about it) like Mummification, Parasitic Twin, Bottled Ooze, Rag Doll Mutagen, Tentacles, Tumor Familiar, Alchemical Simulacrum, etc. I want more of These types of Discoveries, they're what made the Alchemist one of my Favorite classes! I know, I know, I need to have patience, I'm sure they'll be there.... But what if they're Not? I want to have my mad science have permanent lasting effects on my body darn it.
Yeah Black is Very much about Amorality. Also there's the fact that Green Does oppose Blue and Black, despite as you put it, how it may lend itself to True Neutral in D&D Terms.... But then, its also opposed to how you would have Blue as Lawful and Black as Evil, so is it then Chaotic Good? While the D&D Alignments are based on Morality(Good vs Evil) and Ethics(Law vs Chaos) the Magic Pie is based on Philosophical Debate at its Very Core, which absolutely appeals to me. EDIT: To go along with this a good place to put Orzhov, is Literally in LE, that's very much a good place to put the Orzhov Syndicate, they aren't really good, but they're very much about Law and Evil. And the Senate as NG? Really?!?! There is Absolutely No way they are Neutral, They're the Lawmaking group amongst the Guilds, how could the possibly be anywhere Near Chaotic?
Morality is honestly a spectrum, and the fact that in D&D/PF it is boiled down to 9 categories is honestly dumb. Hell I once saw someone take the setting of Ravnica from Magic the Gathering, and try to turn it into a D&D setting with each guild overarchingly based on an alignment. The Guild of Izzet was placed as Lawful Chaotic....... And to be honest that Guild Really is LC. But Ravnica and MtG work off of a Completely Different Alignment system to D&D, one I can Honestly get behind a Lot more, because its more philosophically inclined than morally or ethically so.
A Preface
NOW from what I've been seeing of all of this, Paizo is Apparently trying to DOWNPLAY the Psychopathic parts of the Goblin Depiction, and trying to UPPLAY the more comical side of them, the Friendlier side of them. Probably because of One and only One thing, they see Goblins as an Iconic Pathfinder Race, and they want to make them more Marketable, more Full of Personality and less Psychopathy. Keep in Mind that Pathfinder is getting beaten out by 5e D&D, which puts out Much Less Content, that's one of the reasons that they're making 2e in the first place(Not the only one, but surely a good one). And to that end, Core Goblins seems like a very good move, all the other playable races are Generic, but Core Goblins? That's something Iconic. NOW I Can Honestly see where the Anti-Goblin Core people are coming from, they don't like that the Goblins are being added to this special group of Always Allowed character races, but here's the thing, IF Paizo can actually Balance Future Races after Core so that those Races are always allowable as playable as well(or Make it so that Goblins are a Core Boon Race in PFS), then there's Honestly No Problem at all. This is a situation just like Aasimar and Tieflings were allowable and currently Kitsune (and I can't remember what other race is Currently Legal to Just make without boon in PFS, think there's one) Then what exactly would be your Definition of Core? Because Obviously there's everything allowed everywhere, except Homegames, where you can Disallow whoever or whatever you want. The main problem with Core Races currently is that they are the BLANDEST of the BLAND, which is Obviously something they're trying to fix with the new Ancestry system. Hell if they allowed more races at any given time, how many of the Current Core Races do you think you'd see? Now if your problem is that Goblins are Disruptive, I believe as MANY People have pointed out, that its the Player that's disruptive, Not the Race. If its that certain Mob(I played WoW before I ever touched a Tabletop RPG), so I like the term Mob) Goblins like to do these horrible things and raid towns, if you want to show that off you still can, just like there are Human Bandits that like to hold people up at sword point on highways, or Human Slavers that like to enslave entire villages. HELL this is the Very Reason I hate Humans, because Humans have an EXTREMELY High Propensity for Well Informed, Sophisticated Evil... Both in Every Game I've Ever seen, and in the Real World. Just because Humans don't like eating Human babies, because they find it disturbing (don't see Goblins eating Goblin Babies) doesn't mean they don't Eat Babies (Lamb, Veal, Baby Pigs etc.) and You Yourself must admit you find it Perfectly Acceptable, unless you're a Vegetarian. As for Pyromania, AGAIN AS OTHER People have Pointed Out, Fireblooded Sorcerers, Clerics of Asmodeus, Alchemists(from what I hear the Iconic Alchemist will be a Goblin), Evocation Wizards, Fire Kineticists, Tieflings and Ifrit are All Prime Examples of Pyromaniacs. Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'm Leaving, because again I HATE THE PREVALENCE OF THESE THREADS...........................
I Love how you said this a page ago, and yet you're Still arguing with everyone as if trying to convince Paizo to Still not allow Multi-classing.
And I will still happily play in the upcoming system, because the Class Feats don't matter to me at all, the concepts do. So if I want to go say 8 in one class and 12 in another I will happily do that (like I said about my Monk/Brawler). I will Nowhere be as strong as either of those classes taken to max, and I shouldn't be, but I will Still have fun with them. Oh btw, I do tend to plan out my characters from lvl 1-20, building characters that I like the concept of is how I started out in D&D cuz I had noone to play with when I first got into it....
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