So, what do we know about the Skill List?


Prerelease Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

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I'm legitimately curious if anyone's found any skills I haven't. These are the ones I've picked up in listening to various demo games and scanning the blogs, and where I got them from:

Acrobatics (Proficiency Blog)
Athletics (Rogue Blog)
Crafting (Rogue Blog)
Deception (Rogue Blog)
Diplomacy (A La Mode Blog)
Intimidation (A La Mode Blog)
Lore - Various (Mentioned various places)
Medicine (Glass Cannon Podcast)
Nature (A La Mode Blog)
Occultism (Mentioned in some demo game, I think)
Performance (A La Mode Blog)
Religion (Glass Cannon Podcast)
Society (Rogue Blog)
Stealth (Proficiency Blog)
Survival (Proficiency Blog)
Thievery (Proficiency Blog)

Anyone have anything else? I'm betting there's an Insight/Sense Motive skill but I have no proof and no actual idea what other skills there might be aside from these and that one. Well, and probably Profession (since they kept Crafting and Perform). I mean, I guess there could be Heal, too, though Nature may have subsumed that skill (which would make some sense).

EDIT: Edited in Medicine.


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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The GCP playtest games mentioned a Medicine skill at some point.

Liberty's Edge

Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
The GCP playtest games mentioned a Medicine skill at some point.

Did it? I missed that.

That'd be the Heal equivalent, then. I'll edit it in.


Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
The GCP playtest games mentioned a Medicine skill at some point.

GOOD. I didn't want that folded into Nature. It was already turning into an uber-skill... Survival + Knowledges (Nature, Geography, Dungeoneering) is quite enough for a broad skill. It didn't need Ride and Handle Animal, which should be combined into their own distinct skill. It definitely doesn't need to absorb Heal too on top of all that.

Liberty's Edge

Fuzzypaws wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
The GCP playtest games mentioned a Medicine skill at some point.
GOOD. I didn't want that folded into Nature. It was already turning into an uber-skill... Survival + Knowledges (Nature, Geography, Dungeoneering) is quite enough for a broad skill. It didn't need Ride and Handle Animal, which should be combined into their own distinct skill. It definitely doesn't need to absorb Heal too on top of all that.

Survival appears to still be an entirely separate skill, actually, while Handle Animal looks like it's probably been folded in (which I'm cool with...Ride might've been folded into either this or Acrobatics).

Which works fine for me thematically, and doesn't seem too overpowered mechanically either (Handle Animal + Knowledges not being super unbalancing).


Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
The GCP playtest games mentioned a Medicine skill at some point.

Did it? I missed that.

That'd be the Heal equivalent, then. I'll edit it in.

I can't remember which episode, but IIRC it was when they were talking about the dying rules, as one of the means to stabilize a dying character.

Liberty's Edge

Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
I can't remember which episode, but IIRC it was when they were talking about the dying rules, as one of the means to stabilize a dying character.

Yeah, that sounds right now that you've brought it up.


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lets see.... Acrobatics covers Acrobatics and Fly
Bluff and Disguise are covered by Deception
Climb and Swim, and Jumping(?) are in Athletics
Diplomacy, Intimidate/tion, Perform(ance), and Stealth are still there
Heal=Medicine
the Various Knowledges and Linguistics are distributed amongst Lore, Occultism, Nature, Religion, and Society
Handle Animal, Survival and Possibly Ride are in Survival (if Ride isn't in Acrobatics or Athletics)
Perception isn't going to be a skill
Spellcraft is in Occultism
Thievery is HUGE incorporating what 3 skills? Sleight of Hand, Disable Device and Escape Artist(?) (or is Escape Artist in something else?)
Like you said Sense Motive is More than likely still a Skill, and I could definitely see it being called Insight by the way the other skills look to be named.
Use Magic Device is unaccounted for, but it may already be in Occultism (seems more likely than Relgion or Nature), or just replaced entirely by the Resonance system >.>

That leaves Appraise, Knowledge(Engineering), and Profession.

Liberty's Edge

I think Escape Artist is in Acrobatics (though I could be wrong). And suspect that Knowledge (Engineering) is niche enough to just fall under the generic Lore skill. I'd bet Profession remains, and have no idea what's up with Appraise (though it could've been wrapped into Society).

I also think Handle Animal is under Nature rather than Survival (there's some evidence of this), and that Ride is either there as well or maybe under Acrobatics as well (or maybe under Survival, I guess I could see that).


Then that covers Everything


Appraise might get tossed into thievery, but society could also work. Or maybe even crafting.


This folding of skills seems like it might be a bit too much.


Thievery is the only one that feels a bit off to me. Disable device and slight of hand are fairly different things. But most of the others seem fine. Some of the skills really didn't get used much. Knowledge: Nobility is probably the biggest. I don't think I've ever seen Fly rolled. Profession could be problematic in that there can be any number of different professions and unless you had the exact one for the task didn't mean much.

I do wonder if they're bringing in the Artistry skill from Unchained, or folding it into something else. That kind of was a missing niche, but not exactly something that would come up a lot.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
And suspect that Knowledge (Engineering) is niche enough to just fall under the generic Lore skill.

Or Craft.

Liberty's Edge

Doktor Weasel wrote:
Appraise might get tossed into thievery, but society could also work. Or maybe even crafting.

I could see Crafting, actually. I'm skeptical on Thievery.

Arssanguinus wrote:
This folding of skills seems like it might be a bit too much.

It gives around a 20 skill list. That seems right-ish to me for the kind of game Pathfinder is.

Doktor Weasel wrote:
Thievery is the only one that feels a bit off to me. Disable device and slight of hand are fairly different things.

They're different, but protagonists who can do one and not the other are few and far between, IME. And both are kinda niche in usefulness, too.

Doktor Weasel wrote:
But most of the others seem fine. Some of the skills really didn't get used much. Knowledge: Nobility is probably the biggest. I don't think I've ever seen Fly rolled. Profession could be problematic in that there can be any number of different professions and unless you had the exact one for the task didn't mean much.

Well, they're already doing Lore sorta that way, so I wouldn't assume Profession is gone (and am okay with it staying, to be honest).

Doktor Weasel wrote:
I do wonder if they're bringing in the Artistry skill from Unchained, or folding it into something else. That kind of was a missing niche, but not exactly something that would come up a lot.

That'd be interesting, though they might also just officially fold it into Crafting.

Leyren wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
And suspect that Knowledge (Engineering) is niche enough to just fall under the generic Lore skill.
Or Craft.

Very possible. I know my budding architect character would've been fine with either.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Doktor Weasel wrote:
Appraise might get tossed into thievery, but society could also work. Or maybe even crafting.

I'd like to see it tied to craft. That makes a lot of sense to me.


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I think that Appraise, Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (geography), and Sleight of Hand should all be bundled together into one mega-skill. That skill should be called "Yeah Right, You're Still Never Going To Roll This."

Liberty's Edge

RumpinRufus wrote:
I think that Appraise, Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (geography), and Sleight of Hand should all be bundled together into one mega-skill. That skill should be called "Yeah Right, You're Still Never Going To Roll This."

I think that's an excellent reason for them all to be rolled into different skills with other more common uses. Which, in fact, the evidence suggests they are. :)


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
RumpinRufus wrote:
I think that Appraise, Knowledge (nobility), Knowledge (geography), and Sleight of Hand should all be bundled together into one mega-skill. That skill should be called "Yeah Right, You're Still Never Going To Roll This."

TBH, Appraise was probably the roll made the most in the last adventure I DMed. And Know nobility/geo, I actually called this to be rolled a couple of times. But yeah, as deadman said, they'll be rolled in with other skills.


I actually used Sleight of Hand a Lot on my Rogue, stole weapons off of people I snuck up on >.>

Liberty's Edge

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New Blog, new skill reveal, we've now added Arcana, making the list look like this:

Acrobatics (Proficiency Blog)
Arcana (Spell Blog)
Athletics (Rogue Blog)
Crafting (Rogue Blog)
Deception (Rogue Blog)
Diplomacy (A La Mode Blog)
Intimidation (A La Mode Blog)
Lore - Various (Mentioned various places)
Medicine (Glass Cannon Podcast)
Nature (A La Mode Blog)
Occultism (Mentioned in some demo game, I think)
Performance (A La Mode Blog)
Religion (Glass Cannon Podcast)
Society (Rogue Blog)
Stealth (Proficiency Blog)
Survival (Proficiency Blog)
Thievery (Proficiency Blog)

I'm still also betting on Insight/Sense Motive and maybe Profession.

It's also possible (though by no means certain) that Arcana has replaced Occultism...but I doubt it.


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I hope that Profession is going to be folded into what your Background is.

And I imagine that Occultism is a combination of "knowing some supernatural stuff" and low key "defense against the dark arts" where Arcana might be "applied thaumaturgy" and "practical ritual use".

Liberty's Edge

Stone Dog wrote:
I hope that Profession is going to be folded into what your Background is.

Well, we know Backgrounds give you a Lore, so Profession might've been rolled into that. We really don't know, though.

Stone Dog wrote:
And I imagine that Occultism is a combination of "knowing some supernatural stuff" and low key "defense against the dark arts" where Arcana might be "applied thaumaturgy" and "practical ritual use".

Quite possibly something like that, yeah.


Stone Dog wrote:

I hope that Profession is going to be folded into what your Background is.

And I imagine that Occultism is a combination of "knowing some supernatural stuff" and low key "defense against the dark arts" where Arcana might be "applied thaumaturgy" and "practical ritual use".

The sourcing for Occultism is uncertain. And I do seem to recall hearing the term Arcana back in the first part of the Glass Cannon podcast. I think it's likely that occultism is just a mis-remembering of arcana.

Having that kind of split between occultism and acrana seems to go counter to the consolidation of all the other skills.


It is true that a single magical skill makes sense and it would be an improvement from having a spell Craft/knowledge arcana divide.

There could be room for more skills though, so long as they do significantly different things. As an example, we are likely to have acrobatics for DEX based moving about and athletics for STR based moving about, right?

Maybe we are going to get Arcana for INT based messing with magic and Occultism for WIS based messing with magic.


Well, worth a note, the Domains post gave us the tidbid that Clerics get proficiency in the signature skill of their god:

"The deity's signature skill is in addition to those all clerics gain, so Shelynite clerics always have the ability to reach great heights in Crafting. Norgorberite clerics, in contrast, gain Stealth in order to blend into the shadows, allowing them to fit in well with clandestine groups."

I wonder if there will be other unusual sources for specific skills for other classes.


Disable Device should be folded into whatever gets Knowledge: Engineering instead of a thieving skill.


I hope they don’t do too much more folding in, actually ...

Liberty's Edge

Mewzard wrote:

Well, worth a note, the Domains post gave us the tidbid that Clerics get proficiency in the signature skill of their god:

"The deity's signature skill is in addition to those all clerics gain, so Shelynite clerics always have the ability to reach great heights in Crafting. Norgorberite clerics, in contrast, gain Stealth in order to blend into the shadows, allowing them to fit in well with clandestine groups."

I wonder if there will be other unusual sources for specific skills for other classes.

This is indeed an interesting tidbit on how skills are acquired, though exactly what it means is unclear (do you just get those skills at 1st or what?). Still, good info to have.

Arssanguinus wrote:
I hope they don’t do too much more folding in, actually ...

More than is noted above? I wouldn't expect so. We're clearly getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 skills.


The background blog added the following by name:

Lore (Smithing)
Lore (Pathfinder Society)
Lore (Underworld)

also some feats related but without clear purpose.

Sovereign Court

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The skill feats listed were: Specialty Crafting, Pickpocket, and Additional Lore.

Additional Lore sounds pretty straightforward. Become trained in one or two new Lore skills.

Liberty's Edge

Wermut wrote:

The background blog added the following by name:

Lore (Smithing)
Lore (Pathfinder Society)
Lore (Underworld)

also some feats related but without clear purpose.

Those are already covered under Lore (Various).


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Wermut wrote:

The background blog added the following by name:

Lore (Smithing)
Lore (Pathfinder Society)
Lore (Underworld)

also some feats related but without clear purpose.

Those are already covered under Lore (Various).

Still its interesting to note how flexible "Lore" can be and how they differ from the former Knowledge skills (which are of course now a thing of its own). Those were rather rigid, while something like Lore (Smithing) indicates that every form of crafting has a lore skill, or only those relevant to the adventurers life?

Are lore skills so flexible that a player could define a certain field of knowledge as lore skill, without a rigid list maybe given some guidelines bye the rulebook? If I remember correctly Shadowrun had something like that and it worked just fine to fluff out characters.

But if thats the case, I also remember that those skills were kept separately from the "real" skills that gave everyday advantages. If lore skills are spread too thin (how often will Lore (Smithing) play an important role?) do they warrant the investment of ressources that may advance stuff like Medicine or Survival?


Wermut wrote:


Are lore skills so flexible that a player could define a certain field of knowledge as lore skill, without a rigid list maybe given some guidelines bye the rulebook? If I remember correctly Shadowrun had something like that and it worked just fine to fluff out characters.

I'm guessing they will.

Quote:
But if thats the case, I also remember that those skills were kept separately from the "real" skills that gave everyday advantages. If lore skills are spread too thin (how often will Lore (Smithing) play an important role?) do they warrant the investment of ressources that may advance stuff like Medicine or Survival?

I'm guessing they won't. But that's easy enough, just don't make skill feats for Lore.


I wonder what will become of Use Magic Device? Maybe anyone can use it like Perception.

Liberty's Edge

Dragon78 wrote:
I wonder what will become of Use Magic Device? Maybe anyone can use it like Perception.

Well, on a thematic level it's partly been rolled into Resonance, clearly. My guess is the actual 'use magic items I otherwise couldn't' will be Arcana or Occultism or something like that.


Do we know what skill got Sense Motive?

Liberty's Edge

Dragon78 wrote:
Do we know what skill got Sense Motive?

We do not. It's very possible it's just a skill we haven't had listed yet (there's no actual evidence we've seen the whole list). The other social skills remained distinct, so Sense Motive (possibly under a new name) might easily do so as well.


Yeah, all the demos I have heard have been light on the social interaction, so those skills haven't gotten to shine.


Sense Motive will probably get renamed / folded into something like Insight or Intuition like most other recent games. It does also usually include the ability to roll a check to represent a "hunch" or detect enchantment or the like.


Stone Dog wrote:
Maybe we are going to get Arcana for INT based messing with magic and Occultism for WIS based messing with magic.

Yeah, so there should be a Cha-based one? I am interested to see the difference between Arcana and Occultism.


I'd figure occultism handles ritual magic while arcana is general spell casting. Plus some other things, but I'd presume that's the main difference.

Liberty's Edge

Well, based on the Redcap stat block in the recent Blog, I'm gonna call it and say there is no Sense Motive skill. They converted all of its PF1 skills except that one so it must have been rolled into something.

My guess is that it's either rolled into Perception or Deception. I'm betting on Perception.


In Unchained they combined Sense Motive and Perception into just Perception.
In my homebrew version of the consolidated skills from Unchained, I combined Handle Animal and Ride into a separate skill called Husbandry (I know it's not an exact translation, but it made more sence to me than folding ride into Acrobatics and HA into Nature).


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I often just roll Handle Animal and Ride together and be done with it.

Given that we've been told that characters will automatically improve in Perception, rather than put ranks in it, it seems a bit odd that Sense Motive would also be included in this.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Arakhor wrote:


Given that we've been told that characters will automatically improve in Perception, rather than put ranks in it, it seems a bit odd that Sense Motive would also be included in this.

That isn't necessarily the case. We know that it isn't a Skill anymore and that some classes give it free proficiency ranks as a class feature. That doesn't rule out other ways of improving your proficiency in it, or General Feats that improve how it works within proficiency bounds. In the same way that other non-skill proficiency can be granted by class and can be improved outside of class (e.g a Wizard investing in armour if they really want to)


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Re: Sense Motive

I'm wondering if Sense Motive may get merged into Society. Which makes a certain amount of sense, since Sense Motive involves understanding "social cues" as well as other indicators.

Scarab Sages

My guess is Ride will be part of Athletics.

Liberty's Edge

Arakhor wrote:
Given that we've been told that characters will automatically improve in Perception, rather than put ranks in it, it seems a bit odd that Sense Motive would also be included in this.

Not really. I worry about not getting any Sense Motive Skill Feats, but aside from that raising in Proficiency automatically seems a reasonable enough thing for your ability to detect lies, given how often adventurers get lied to.

Tallow wrote:
My guess is Ride will be part of Athletics.

Athletics is the Strength based one, so I sorta doubt it.

Liberty's Edge

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Okay, watching the panel on PF2 at PaizoCon, it looks like Sense Motive has probably been folded into Diplomacy. I'm cool with that.

Also, Mark Seifter said that he thought we on the forums had found all the skills, so the above list is probably complete (or very close to complete, anyway).

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