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I've been a bit wary picking this to design my latest Oracle: because of the wording I was never sure on some stuff...

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, as I know sometimes RAW/RAI can get pretty fuzzy due to things missed in word-limit, but I'm surprised no -one else seems to have queried it yet (unless I have missed that...):

Oracle Ancient Lorekeeper Archetype states the following:

rules wrote:

Elven Arcana (Ex)

At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper’s mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast. The ancient lorekeeper gains this as a bonus spell known. The spell is treated as one level higher than its true level for all purposes.
The ancient lorekeeper *may choose* an additional spell at 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th levels.

This ability replaces the bonus spells she would normally gain at these levels from her chosen mystery."

(emphasis mine on bolded/italicized text)

The text from the rules above, seems to imply you only Must choose the cantrip (SL-1 spell) for your Level 2 bonus spell, and then you MAY sub in one of the SL-1 Sor/Wiz spells for an even level Mystery one if you so choose... (i.e. anything above the first bonus spell is optional...)

However, when I'm trying to design this in the Oracle Tab on "a certain electronic character sheet tool TM": when you choose this archetype, it states you MUST choose a spell for each bonus spell known above 2, and automatically wipes out any and all spells from your Mystery List.

I would have liked to have an Oracle be able to sub out only the spells they may choose to change (especially if you have the spell on the original mystery from another source - i.e. SLA - so you only wanted to "May Choose" bonus 2,6,12,16 for instance, and keep some of the original mystery spells); why would it give the option to choose a spell at each bonus level otherwise... or is this just poor semantics on RAW? They could have got one less word by saying "chooses" (or "selects" as before) if word-limit was a problem...

This is the only Oracle archetype I can see like this with "may choose". Usually on d20pfsrd you write an optional change like "(X)" {see Reincarnated Oracle Revelations where you have two revelations to select in three slots, and you choose which way round they go} so have they always got the interpretation wrong too?
I also know that if you had two other archetypes that didn't clash on level of bonus spells changed you could then select both... that's what "at these levels" is?

Now I'm not sure what would be the correct interpretation?

I am aware that this suddenly makes the AL archetype somewhat more powerful... I'm also aware that I probably won't get a ruling from the Powers That Be at this late a stage, and I know I can get house ruling from GM, but there should be support for PF1 players still, if we have enough material to run things for the next 10 years and want to design characters on electronic format for ease of play?

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

(First part is general musing, the rules Q is at the end)

I was wondering if anyone had used or come into contact with one of the newer curses from Heroes of Golarion in play yet: God-Meddled... and if it would work/tweak for an Oracle that follows Nocticula in Return of the Runelords (hoping to play next year after all the boons stuff comes out), as the rest of the gods are in two minds about this upstart cult claiming that Lady N is going to do what she does by the end... which affects the Divine flow of power from wherever it comes from to the PC.

Here's the gist from AoN writeup:

"God-Meddled (Heroes of Golarion pg. 14): The gods’ interference in your life has left you with strange, unpredictable powers dependent on divine whim. Bizarre side effects occur whenever you are affected by a spell from a divine caster—for better or for worse. Once per round, when *a creature* casts a divine spell including you as a target, roll 1d20 and consult the table below. The effect resulting from this roll begins at the end of that enemy’s turn. This effect targets only you, even if other creatures were included as targets of the triggering spell. At 5th level, etc etc...."

My question is: when it says "a creature", does that also include you casting spells on yourself?
Just so's I know to pick some spells that can cast before a fight, or on others. Self-healing's going to be interesting...
Also does this include wands or items that cast divine?

Hi, I've been looking at the Bitter Drawback (link)... (from the Antihero's Handbook)

It's more of a low level question (as at high levels, 1hp is neither here nor there, {except that one time when it is}), but:

I wondered if your allies made potions, wands, (or even items/iouns/armor that healed you as its power x/day etc), would this also count as their "class feature" (especially if the feat to create stuff was a class bonus feat for them, such as Brew Potions, Wondrous Items etc.)?

By extrapolation, would the drawback also apply when you buy (or find/loot) an item of healing? From a fluff point of view is it the not trusting your mates on the spot versus not trusting the healing in all sources...?

Just want to clear this up before possibly selecting it for a character; I am pushing the question to (il)logical extremes to see where the line is... if you could buy the same wand of healing from a shop instead of using one your mate made, if you get 1 point extra healing from the one in the shop compared to your mate's wand that seems odd... (i.e. what's to stop your mate selling a bunch to the shop and then you buying one that you don't know was made by them)?

Coming back to class spell/feature vs. item (fluff), is it because "all magic wands are the same, and do the same xDn each time" that you would trust a wand rather than an ally and their "personal motives"?

Also, if a villain heals you for whatever reason (sloppy use of channeling, not realising a usually harmful effect heals you, or you are a prisoner and they want to keep you alive), what does that count as?

Final bit, if an ally heals you with (edited, realized Cure Light is 1d8+1 minimum) Channeling for 1d6 at 1st-2nd level, if a 1 is rolled does that mean 0 healing (also if that were the case, would it still Stabilize you)?

Noticed this thread on Impossible Bloodline and went "Hang on a minute..."

Impossible Bloodline and Golems

These Symbol spells are being recommended as the only spells w.o. SR that are compulsion, and in 3.5 they had SR...

Is this:
1. a typo that has been missed in the conversion, OR
2. have these spells truly been changed to this, OR
3. is it supposed to be implied from the "This works like Symbol of Death (which has the SR)?

As this implication was never relied on previously, why not just write the SR line in the book?


There's a certain female Quasit in one of the Adventure Paths, and nice picture... but I can't seem to find an equivalent for a female *Imp*.

I can find decent pictures of Male Imps aplenty (some really cool, and what I would expect), and I would expect the design of a female to be "not a mini/chibi-succubus" (i.e. not a mini-Etna {Disgaea} on your shoulder, even though that would be "prettier")

Does anyone know where I can find some? Imps are always regarded as "it" in descriptions, and can beast-shape, so is there a reason why there wouldn't be any at all?

Well, forging "protagonists" at any rate: some of us are wielding 16,000 word backgrounds for our villains (yes I may have gone a bit overboard...)

Hi, supposed to be playing in a WotW campaign soon, but recently came across the Obedience feats and PrC Evangelist

However, was intending on having Erinyes connections and wondered if it's possible to design Boons from worshiping the Whore Queens instead of Asmodeus?
(I'd have to get someone to do it for me as I wouldn't know where to start...)


Given there sort of aren't Fetchlings in Greyhawk, I started looking around for a similar Outsider type I could cannibalise on teh intarwebz and saw the Nerra
I thought they were a bit like Half-Template type stuff, and a bit powerful, so tried to use the PF Race Builder RP points

What do people think of:

"Mirrortouched" Race Point Costs (based on Aasimar/Fetchling and minmaxboards resists)

Racial Traits
Type Outsider (native)3
Size Medium 0
Base Speed Normal 0

Ability Score Modifiers
Flexible (+2 Dex, +2 Cha) 2

Languages Standard 0

“Transitive” resistance 3

Skill Bonus
Knowledge [planes]/Disguise+1 each 2
(yeah I know, this took a hit)

Spell-Like Ability Lesser 2
Spell-Like Ability Mirror travel 5

Darkvision 60 ft. —

Total 17

Standard Racial Traits

•Ability Score Racial Traits: “Varoot” Mirrortouched are quick and forceful. .They gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma.

(Kalareem and Sillit should have different Stats, i.e. STR/DEX and WIS/INT or something…actually as Sillit are supposed to be the leaders, I can see Mirrortouched related to them being built on more points, like Drow Nobility, with Advanced Stats…)

•Type: Mirrortouched are outsiders with the native subtype.
•Size: Mirrortouched are Medium creatures and thus receive no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
•Base Speed: Mirrortouched have a base speed of 30 feet.
•Languages: Mirrortouched begin play speaking Common and Nerra. Also 7 other languages
• "Transitive" Resistance: Mirrortouched have fire resistance, cold resistance 5 and electricity resistance 5.

Feat and Skill Racial Traits

•Skilled: Mirrortouched have a +1 racial bonus on Knowledge (planes) and (Disguise?) checks.(Kalareem/Sillit to have different second skill?)

Magical Racial Traits

•Spell-Like Abilities (Sp):
(1) A Mirrortouched can use Mirror Image once per day as a spell-like ability.
(2a) When a Mirrortouched reaches 9th??? level in any combination of classes, he gains Mirror Walk (self only, see Shadow Walk) usable once per day as a spell-like ability.
(2b) When a Mirrortouched reaches 13th level in any combination of classes, he gains plane shift (self only, to the Mirror Plane or the Material Plane only) usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A Mirrortouched's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice.

(#2: This is based on Fetchling equivalent Shadow Travel and Shadow Walk – adjusting the level 9 ability depends on how much rarer having a Mirror is to Dim Light as to when get the spell… plus whether you think part-nerra should be immune to mirror-doubles...)

Plus you can’t just do it, you would need to touch the mirror?
Plus does the mirror have to be of a certain size or can you get away with a hand-mirror/roll-up tin foil?
Are there penalties (I’ve seen 30% mischance touted) due to only having a highly polished surface, to being stuck in the Plane of Mirrors until you find a random mirror out – you Have to use a proper Mirror on exit.- will have to read up Shadow Walk mishaps…

Should this be at level 8, for example, or lower, due to restrictions…?

{the level 13 Plane Shift ability can be the same though}

Shadow Travel is one of the RP race build abilities that is hard to break down because you get it discounted due to self-only/dim light etc…)

Senses Racial Traits
•Darkvision: Mirrortouched can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.

Alternate Racial Abilities

I’m sure SR , Emissary , other spell-like abilities, Illusion/Image only +1 level, EWP: Shard Weapon, and Shard Spray could be worked out here by swapping out some of the above…

Possible one is plus X on saves or knowledge/spellcraft checks on spells and traps that incorporate mirrors, versus minus Y on sonic damage saves (or extra damage taken when sonic damage)

I can see Kalareem having the Shard Weapon and Sillit the Spray. Sillit should also get a few other things as standard, but be more vulnerable to sonic damage?


What do people think about the Cantrip/Orison *Sift* being added to the Oracle/Sorcerer Seeker Archetype?

Given that part of the archetype is the trapfinding ability and it so seems to fit the flavo(u)r of a Seeker...

Levels of integration:

1. Added as x/day Spell-like Ability
2. Added to Cantrip/Orison List, to compete with other cantrips/orisons (so you don't have to take it if you don't want to, but you would have to decide between unlimited uses versus unlimited equally useful cantrips, especially at low level)
3. Added to List, but MUST make it one of your C/O's before level 1-3?
4. Any Other Ideas?

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Tieflings with no messing cost 13RP.

I was wanting to create a variant that was based on Erinyes, and so wanted to get (at least) the Vestigial Wings (possibly better flight), and possibly a Weapon Familiarity (All Bows and Whip - to use a rope like a whip like Erinyes do), and replace the spell-like with Animate Rope.
My GM said if I wanted decent Flight, as Vestigial Wings were 2RP, to balance I'd have to lose some part of Fiendish Resistances. Fair enough.

It was at this point, however, when paying more attention to the individual costs of the Racials and Alternate Racials .
Ignore Weapons for a moment...

Vestigial Wings (2RP) Replaces Skilled (4RP). So now my Alternate Racial Tiefling costs 2RP Less than a Regular Tiefling.

Is it acceptable to ask for something like the 30'(Clumsy) 4RP cost Flight instead and that then it should balance? I wouldn't mind losing just one resistance then to pick up the Wpn Fams. (or at a push Glide to stay evens on old/new cost)

(I will just add I was going to get Infernal Bloodline but was maybe picking up Seeker instead so would lose Wings option at 15th Level and I'm not spending 4 feats on an Eldritch Heritage to get proper ones either.

I also know there are spells/feats to either grow (or strengthen existing) wings and would not mind starting with 4RP flight and then doing an upgrade with a modified "Flight" feat (see strix, for example)

However, the point remains that swapping Vest.Wings for Skilled Does Not Add Up.