At 11th level, my group was very under wealth guidelines and I made an adjustment. From that point forward, however, there wasn't any issue.
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Perhaps it has more to do with who A corrupted rather than who A is? If Dyr'ryd was the being he got on his side, than Dyr'ryd would take the demodand approach to manipulating things. Since he is NE, I guess that leaves all paths open?
Good call on the Word of Chaos. In my case, the players got a level drain through and that made that point moot. I just finished my campaign. Suitably epic ending...
This sounds great, though I am just about done with SCAP and won't be converting. I was thinking about Foundations in Flame as a skill challenge. However, considering the considerable discussion about the actual probability of success on skill challenges... Regardless, the town meeting before the eruption would be a skill challenge and I could see Perception, Streetwise, Diplomacy and Intimidate as skills. Other skills could be possible, I suppose, but I think you would need to put a hook in there for them. Perhaps, history for knowing some law? The other events in the adventure may also make good skill challenges but I would think you would want them to be reasonably easy to accomplish. For example, the burning building with the child at the top allows for multiple different approaches.
I'm pushing the pace to finish ASAP so we can start a 4e campaign. We just started Asylum and I hope to finish in the next couple of weeks. I'm personally stoked about 4e (and to be a player again).
That is a cool ending, Lisa. As an alternative, something where the PC with the smoking eye template could make a sacrifice to stop it--perhaps using the alter to Adimarchus in the earlier room. However, my PCs never came close to that, adhering to a strict policy of "Always take secret doors. Once those are exhausted, always go left first." Turns out, if you find the first secret door, and always turn left, it takes you almost straight to the Tree.
I am curious how many people ended Thirteen Cages with the peaceful shutdown of the tree. My group decided to chop it down, even after finding the manual indicating the existence of a shutdown mechanism. So, the volcano blew up, and many of the cultivated relationships and fleshed out city locations are gone. Oh well... They are still going after the remaining Cagewrights.
My players asked the same thing. There is the back story (which my players didn't figure out) but I just assume the dragon needed a place to stay and no where in the temple was large enough. But, yes, the fight was pretty easy since the dragon didn't have much mobility.
But Nab is exiled. So, he may be independent now. In fact, as a gone-for-hire, that might be a good connection to Adimarchus. Would he have let the Cagewrights do all that stuff in Kuran-Karul without some sort of deal?
In short, I didn't think the evacuation point game added much. I thought it was neat, but I thought I could wing it and not bother. I assumed basically 2 encounters per quadrant and 2 encounters in the lake area (one was the Morkoth). My group volunteered to aid in the evacuation in the most dangerous areas so it was easy to motivate them. From there, I had 10 planned encounters/situations and I had a visible checkmark list for them to see (even though I didn't actually say there were 2 encounters per area). They enjoyed it and I gave experience based on the EL or CR of the encounter (depending on the situation). I will say I was disappointed by how little the named NPCs featured in this adventure. I purposefully introduced several more and the players like it. I also made the Hookface encounter a big set piece encounter outside the guard barracks. You'll need to have a big area anyways, so I took the opportunity to draw a generous section of city with lots of buildings and extra details. For example, on the off chance the PCs got creative, I noted what each building contained (olive oil press, blacksmith, tailor, etc.). I also included several crevices and lava areas as well as rubble and general destruction. Good luck with it. My players said it was their favorite adventure so far.
It's in the hardcover reference section. It is a new monster. Is it not in the last adventure from the magazines?
I like the stuff you are talking about (though my players are indifferent). For your first part, here are a few suggestions. 1) I would expand your information about the guard. There are really only two contacts (Skylar and Skellarang) but there is fruit for so much more. For example, Drakhthar's Way would be perfect for introducing more guards than that. Perhaps a wise-cracking guard member (like Lenny Brisko from Law&Order). With that foundation in place, you can use those NPCs as set-ups for little mysteries later. Like the mysterious dark woman who hangs out by the Lake (Shensen) or the cold case of the death of the two clerics of Pelor. 2) One of my players was a druid and I really had to work to bring stuff in from the surrounding wilderness. There is a lot of talk about the Demonskar but, in truth, the players don't see much about demons. So I had a couple of cases where the druid and friends visited exotic locales where it looked like demons were or had been. Specifically, a large waterfall and gorge (similar in surroundings to the end of the Fellowship of the Ring). What they found there was an abandoned camp that was used by demons and from which they set up an ambush. 3) Tygot was an underused resource, also. If he had something stolen, the players could come in to conflict with either of the two theives guilds. If he wanted something transported, he might hire the PCs. If he was looking for something specific, the PCs could go on a hunt for it. 4) I like your bounty idea. If you have anyone escape from Thifirane's party, that might be a good way to clean-up, particularly, if Mhad can escape. As for romance, I agree with Section 8. It is difficult for me and I typically try to keep the emotional impact in place, but not necessarily the words. For example, one of the PC's has a crush on one of the Stormblades. It's easier to make an impact with describing actions rather than dialogue (in the case of romance). I often play with stereotypes, even though that isn't very creative. So, at the Demonskar Ball, it is easy to invoke the awkward high school dance moment. The first signs of interest are fairly easy (showing up at the same taverns, making a point to cross the street in town to say hi, etc.). Later in the campaign, when the Stormblade is throwing rocks at the PC's window, it evokes a set of emotions and expectations and I can introduce a meaningful experience and hopefully not ruin the moment by huskily confessing my undying love.
That is awesome. Kaurophon saved my players a couple of times, too. That probably says something about the adventure...
My players killed Mhad and I thought it was funny that the whole goal of entire order of monks was suddenly wiped out. That aside, I would consider having the order contact the PCs. If you want to drop this red herring, the order could be very thankful for the stopping of the architect of an undead plague (or something like that). They may even be a little miffed that the PCs were getting into their territory. Regardless, it sounds like a decent roleplaying encounter that allows the PCs to get information that invalidates the undead as the cause of the problems in Cauldron. Do any of your PCs have leadership? It might be interesting if one of the order decided to leave to follow the PCs -- people who actually defeat their enemies in less than 300 years! Regardless, it sounds like you have a lot of depth for your players to work with and that is awesome.
My players didn't have too much trouble with the assassins, but my group only has one spellcaster. My group was surprised at how easy the first floor of Wee Jas was. The monsters are basically hit point wells, so they take a while to kill. The fight at the top, however, had 2 PC deaths. I rolled great on initiative and was pretty well able to corner them on the stairs and pitch spells on top of them. A little mean, I suppose, but it isn't like the monsters weren't prepared for the PCs arriving.
Doesn't Dispel Magic work against Permanency? I am reading that the caster must be higher level then when you cast the spell, so I think you can. Surely the players will encounter someone who can dispel it at some point? They surely won't want to pay the XP cost every time to recast it.
Did you run into issues with party death or magic item creation?
I think you can run this without side quests if you are just looking for as little hassle as possible. There are some pretty good threads on experience on these boards if you haven't searched. I have 5 players and I thought the XP was just a little behind. The treasure lagged at first, but I've been pretty pleased with the higher level modules. But other people have just handed out levels at appropriate points, while others have added side quests. Personally, I would rather avoid the sidequests to move along the main plot, but other groups like the extra stuff.
For those that slowed the xp advance, what did you do about treasure? Was that slowed by half, too? I think my players could handle the xp but would revolt on the treasure ;)
I would definitely go with the Hardcover. If you are going to spend a whole campaign on it, you might as well spend the money to get it all in one book, with the extras and with the nice map folio.
Grats! Do you think you'll shift to 4E for Savage Tide?
I really, really like that. My only critique would be that the critical will be pretty rare; Maybe one every other round? I would maybe give him some sort of improved critical that allows them to at least do it on 19 and 20, particularly if you are requiring a confirm for the magical effect.
I was trying to figure out why the timeline was so short in this campaign compared to other campaigns I have played/ran. I think it comes down to the almost complete like of travel. Typically, you end up walking across Faerun or Eberron, at least at low levels. In SCAP, the longest travel I recall is a week. I suppose after TotSE the players plane shift back to within 5d100 miles of Cauldron and that could be a long trip (250 miles, on average).
Yes, I did include the demodand template. The extra powers weren't really useful in my opinion though I fully admit that I may not have been using them optimally. The spit was kinda neat but small and nobody failed the save. Really, the template didn't add much that was useful in a surprise attack combat. As a result, I believe that the Mearls beholder with this template results in a higher CR then is warranted for the challenge presented. (As I said in the original post, I did tone down the save DCs which would have made a big difference. I think it would have been 27 if I included the +4 from Mearls and the +5 from Vhalantru's ability score. The 23 I did use was probably too low since I only had two failed saves on the disintegrate and both PCs had enough hp. However, 27 seems awfully high for PCs with a poor Fort save. A wizard at best would have a +10 which means they would need a 17 or better to pass. Seems a little tough...)
Definitely kept it and it was actually pretty cool. Since the two abilities he can use on that extra turn aren't devastating, it adds some novelty without really penalizing the PCs much. The telekinesis was particularly useful since he could push fighters away again on his second turn (for a total of 40'). In fact, I was also able to use it to prevent a charge. Neat ability, particularly for a group of experienced players like mine.
I didn't think through these issues because I didn't remember it until the day we were going to play. So, I played Thifirane as written but V as having all eyestalks. My players failed to notice the inconsistency (as with the petrified monsters). I suppose you could take away a ray, but then how would V open all the Oblivion doors? If you really wanted to underline the alliance, I suppose you could maybe include a book that describes a ritual by which a beholder can use it's own blood to create a beholder-like eye on another creature? Hope that helps. Good luck!
So, I finally ran the end of Lords of Oblivion with Mike Mearls' beholder. Pros: * There was really only 1 save or die ability and it gets used twice a round. I think my players appreciated the fact that death was more likely from attrition then from a single die roll
Cons:
All in all, I thought the fight was challenging, but less than 3 CRs above them. It may be that the template abilities don't really add that much additional difficulty with this particular use of the beholder. Finally, you may need to come up with some other reason for why all those petrified statues were there since that ability is now gone :)
Awesome encounter. This really makes for epic storylines. Of course, the Three Peerless Judges seems like an odd name. I mean, there are three of them, so obviously they have peers--each other. :-P
Wow, I must have totally made that flying penalty up. I thought you took a -1 with range attacks when flying and maybe some additional penalties if you kept hovering. However, I can find nothing on that at all. Maybe it was 3.0... Anyways, she needs some excuse to land if you expect your range-less party to be effective. Perhaps the trigger for her summoning actually summons her next to the nearest non-kuo toa? That might give them a chance to attack before she can get out of range. Another obscure rule is that she moves up at half speed. So, maybe that will give them time to attack from some of the platforms?
I would say summoning would be a cruel addition. Aushanna was definitely one of the hardest encounters of my campaign to date. A great part of the difficulty is the room layout. The tactics I took were to move to some far location, take a full attack and move again. Thus, as the players try to adjust they ended up running up and down all the time. However, it also keeps her damage at a manageable level for the PCs. If your players have no ranged options, then ... I don't know, this kinda requires having some sort of ranged attack. She would want to land to fire her bow to avoid the penalties for flying, so it would make sense that they could catch up to her that way.
Kaurophon was a tough fight for my party. Turns out that invisibility + 2xcone of cold = Dead PCs. I played Kaurophon as using Telekinesis to try pushing the nearest player in. That worked on one, until they got wise.
You know this would be totally cool on Occipitus in the Shackled City AP. The whole plane-as-a-body thing would give you the opportunity to do some cool things with all these creatures.
I love the Weapon's of Legacy stuff and I think Alakast would be a great candidate for this. Has anybody written up Alakast as a WoL? Of course, if any of your characters leave, what do you do about new characters? I handled the magic item question by encouraging planar travel. I have one PC with a fair number of ranks in Knowledge (the Planes). So, they usually planeshift to a planar metropolis (Union from the Epic Level Handbook) to buy what they need there. Not a very sexy solution, but it gets around the acrobatics of changing treasure or adding adventures.
That is a pretty neat idea Chef. A willing group could make that really interesting. People are more likely to put ability bumps in non-class stats if they have more to spend. I'm surprised to hear how many people are using point buy. Did anyone other than me have them roll? I used 3 sets of 4d6 stats allowing them to pick their set. I think the average stat bonus in the party is around +7.
In other campaigns, we ran into the same issue. What eventually evolved was the philosophy that the PCs are the heroes and anyone else is just support. So, any NPC (either cohort or just along with the party) usually was developed so that they are focused on having one role in the party. For example, the cleric cohort primarily heals and keeps utility spells ready. Kaurophon had a set of actions that he did in any combat encounter (haste, buffs, etc.). A fighter cohort is there to protect their leader by providing cover and defense to their leader. This had two effects. Mainly, it prevented the player from wasting time on their "other" character by thinking of all the possibilities and focusing on only a few core actions. Secondly, it firmly puts the cohort in the background; a useful ally with a cut of the treasure but not a hero on the level of the PCs. This works well for us, but it does assume that your players can also see the negative impact of having all those cohorts around...
I thought the ghost plot was mainly about revenge, hence the absence of a body would not be an issue. Regardless, I would probably decrease his levels by 2 before adding the ghost template to keep the CR appropriate. Alternatively, you could have Saureya accompany them. When they heal him, he could choose to go with them. However, temptation at the final test could finally produce the fall and he could turn against the party. You probably would want to improve him a little more since as a fall angel he loses some of his more interesting powers.
I will be DMing that next session and I would like to hear responses on this topic, too. However, the Open Lock DC is 45. I know the rogue in my party has a 25 in that skill. However, I think you could rule that taking 20 is not reasonable on this since the trap goes off on a failed attempt. Conversely, finding the trap is trivial and disabling the device is only DC 33, so they can probably get rid of the trap with no problem, making the Open Lock possible by taking 20. Am I interpreting this correctly? It is only a CR 10...
Sorry to dig up an old post, but I am getting the impression that the encounter at House Rhiavaldi was not a challenge for anybody's party. My group certainly didn't have an issue this weekend; one holy word and most everything was at least blind and deafened. It only took them around 2 rounds to defeat everyone. (Thifirane prudently teleported the heck out of there.) Is this the common experience? Was nobody challenged by this EL 20 encounter? (Note, I'm not complaining. My group needed the confidence boost after a TPK with Vitriss Bale.)
Keith, I really like yours. I may stick with Mearls', just because I think things have been too difficult. But you hit a nice compromise between the old and the new. I don't think much of SKR's beholder. That looks like a huge pain in the neck to prepare. In fact, I think his monster levels idea might be the least practical monster design approach ever, at least for use in a core book. (Obviously, this isn't a reflection on KnightErrant :) )
When I remember, I usually let them know. But typically they just end up making fun of them. "Zenith Trajectory" is cooler, I guess, if you know they are going to meet someone named Zenith :( "Lords of Oblivion" made them think of the band from South Park...
I really like the changes made in Mike Mearl's Monster Makeover on the WOTC website to the beholder about a year ago. I think it is a little fairer on the PCs, and decided to use it IMC. Here is the link: One of the things that changes is that the beholder does not have as many different rays and is easier to run. If someone else wanted to do the same, here are the changes I made to the Oblivion Doors to account for the different abilities. (The Blast Ray is any energy type the beholder wants so thats why it is on there 5 times.) 3A: Cold from Blast Ray
I made one of the Fire ones be a door near the haraknin, assuming that Vhalantru would want them to have some ability to move about his sanctuary. One other note, is that you may want to ignore the DC changes Mearls makes since Vhalantru's better-than-average-beholder Charisma increases the DCs by 5 anyways.
I'm at the exact same spot as Teemu and we have had 15 party deaths, including one TPK (with Vitriss Bale). I've received some flak, too, regarding difficulty/under-powered/under-treasured. I let the TPK go without any character or monetary penalty, but my players are getting a little aggravated with the large number of deaths. (One player has died 4 times, and only one can be attributed to bad decisions.) I can feel their pain. More importantly, I hate that some of them do new characters at higher levels because of the loss of continuity.
Oh, good call. That was an artifact from when I originally created him as beguiler 11 instead. The correct spells should be Spells (6/7/6/3; +8 ranged touch)
Hi guys. I am preparing for Lords of Oblivion and noticed that Finch is a rogue/sorceror. I thought it might be more interesting to make him into a beguiler. However, I soon found that a beguiler/rogue would be even cooler. So, here are the stats on Finch as a beguiler/rogue. I didn't include a full description of the abilities, since I don't think this is d20. Any input would be appreciated. Finch, male Halfling beguiler 6/ rogue 5 CR 11
Saves Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +6 Abilities: Str 6, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 16 Skills: Bluff +20, Sense Motive +14, Listen +14, Move Silently +17, Search +16, Hide +17, Tumble +17, Knowledge (local) +12, Use Magic Device +17 Feats: Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Bluff), Improved Feint, Spell Focus (enchantment) Languages: Common, Draconic, Halfling Possessions: +2 Small short sword, +1 studded leather armor, wand of hold person (30 charges), cape of the mountebank, ioun stone (dusty rose, +1 insight bonus to AC), slippers of spider climbing, pouch with 32 gp jester emblem, keys Spells (6/7/7/6/6/4; +8 ranged touch) Advanced learning spells: Ventriliquism (1st)
The hardback implies that the Cagewrights have a tendency to use other cults as a front for their own work. Maybe there could be a more direct link then the detritus of the forging process in the Kopru Ruins?
I think the Smoking Eye Template would probably be the easiest hook. For example, the Godkissed organization (from the Epic Level Handbook) may try to recruit or (more likely) destroy someone who can rule Occipitus. Is your group considering redeeming Occipitus?
If they choose to go after Adimarcus, they really only know he is trapped in Carceri. I think some research could reveal a portal that leads to a location suitably near Skullrot. And I think it would make sense that there would be a strong Cagewright contingent there, if just to study it. Thus, an ideal location for this portal would be the "egg" in the middle of Shatterhorn. Alternatively, you could make the adventure in Carceri much more extensive. An imprisoned demon prince should be hard to find and that would probably require some sort of adventure. And imagine all the cool bad guys that would be in the prison plane. Dedekind
If you are considering some alternative to Strike on Shatterhorn, I was always disappointed with the paucity of demodands. Considering that the Cagewrights were founded and run by demodands, it seems like encounters with them would be a more natural next step. Since Adimarchus is trapped in a prison and demodands are like wardens, it would make sense to have them guarding the test that would allow someone to free Adimarchus. So, you may wish to consider Occipitus as an occupied Layer where demondands in various forms are trying to prevent anyone from passing the test.
Nope, not in the book.
I use the fumble rule, but require a dex check DC 10 to not drop. If you pass the check, nothing happens. So, your dual-wielder isn't penalized that bad.
I've been doing both story and xp. There was another thread that talked about Smoking Eye not giving enough xp and my party certainly wouldn't have been 12th at the end if I didn't just give it. As a suggestions towards you specific level points, you may want to consider leveling to 13 prior to the end of Soul Pillars. Vitriss Bale is a CR 16 so you may or may not want to put them up against him at 12th level. Maybe someone else has specific input on that point...? I think I gave 4th a little early (pre-Tongueeater) and that made the Lucky Monkey too easy.
You could really substitute it for the Occipitus adventure or even combine the two. Actually, I think that is a really neat idea. I thought the Occipitus setting was great, but the hook to get you to the plane was weak. However, the hook for Demonweb was great. You could replace Rule of Three with Kaurophon, for example. (Or vice versa, because Rule is more interesting.) The initial set-up would have to be a little different, but I suppose you could find a drow cave near the desert vault.
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