Dameragon's page

The cure in this case is far worse than the disease. When higher level characters are forced to play down, it makes the scenario unchallenging and thus boring. To add insult to injury, these same high level characters get penalized gold for doing the low level characters a favor. End result: Boring mod and gold penalty. Due to this, in many cases these higher level characters are just going to walk away. If they don’t they may be quietly seething and wishing they were not there or at least at another table.

At the very least, the higher level charters should get gold commensurate with their level, thus they are not getting double penalized.

My reading of the bolded section makes it sound like they have that bonus for the listed duration, like it or not.

"If that opponent attacks you with this bonus..." is equivalent, in my mind, to "If that opponent attacks you with this condition..." And you certainly can't just choose not to suffer a condition, can you?

That is a great way to interpret this. He has it like it or not until the end of my turn or until he attacks.

Curious.

So it just means this feat is a bit more limited than some.
vs. unintelligent monsters, or anything you can repeatedly provoke into attacking you, it should work pretty well, but as your opponents get smarter, and especially if they are tactically savvy, it will be harder to trick them with it

Actually I'm totally fine with them not attacking me/us. The idea is that this feat will be on a light fighter team of three. We have mediocre AC and hit points so if the opponent picks on one of us, great, he takes a couple of AoO, if not, we'd rather not take the damage anyway.

Since we play in Society play, we are always going to have new judges so the risk of three us taking a feat and not being able to prove to the judge that he can't just not take the bonus is scaring us away from this feat.

Benefit: Whenever you make a melee attack and hit your opponent, you can use a free action to grant that opponent a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls against you until the end of your next turn or until your opponent attacks you, whichever happens first. If that opponent attacks you with this bonus, it provokes attacks of opportunity from your allies who have this feat.

Everyone I've discussed this feat with thinks the judge can just choose to have the opponent not take the bonus and hit you you without provoking the attacks of opportunity. With this interpretation being widespread, there is not much use taking this feat.

Is this interpretation actually true?

It's not legitimate. Think of how many outsiders it covers and how much of the time, and it fails the smell test.

Otherwise, it's pretty simple: the subtype needs to either appear in the official list in the Core Rulebook, or it needs to be a self-evident new type of outsider (asura, div, and so on).

Let me play devils's advocate here.

By the above, Extraplanar IS an official subtype and one that has limitations.

I'll answer a couple of these

1) The Monk cannot use Vital Strike as part of a Flurry of Blows. FOB is a full attack action. Vital Strike only allows you to use it when you are using an Attack Action. Attack actions and Full attack actions are two different types of actions. (In the Core Rulebook read page 181)

2) You can take both a move action and a standard action in one round (In the Core Rulebook read page 181). You can take them in any order. Thus if the spell only takes a standard action to cast, you could move then cast or cast then move.

3) Running is a Full-Round action (See the table on page 183). If you run you can't do anything else that round.

I want to add Bane Outsider (Extraplanar) to my weapon but some Society players think this is not legitimate since in the Bestiary on page 317 Extraplanar is not listed under the Outsider section of 'Monsters by Type).

In this thread however: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4z9u?Does-a-Bane-weapon-work-on-outer-planes#13

people seem to think its legitimate.

Does anybody have thoughts on this?

Great job Eridan. I grabbed your latest copy. Thanks for all of your hard work.

I keep hearing around the table at PFS events that if you have a magical weapon of +X amount, you can overcome certain DR's that are overcome by weapons made of certain materials (example: "If your magic sword has a +3 modifier, you can overcome DR adamantine).

However, I've reviewed the book extensively, and cannot find the page where this rule is shown. Does anybody know which book & page this rule is located on?

CRB p.562 Overcoming DR

Dameragon wrote:

For the document: PF Grapple Init - Defender-1.pdf

Attacker/ Grapple initiator

Add: If the AoO hits, the damage amount is used as the penalty to the CMB.

I cant find this in the RAW.

CRB p199 : Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.

Quote:
Also for the tied up condition: Defender should get a choice to roll a CMB attack or make a strength check to break the rope. DC23 for hemp rope, DC24 for silk rope.

Same as above. I cant find this in the RAW. You can break free by a CMB check and that represents breaking the bounds.

CRB p175 Table 7-15 'Burst rope bonds'

First the Grappled Condition:

Under the heading “If you are grappled” it says: “you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you.” See the grappled condition for additional details.

The grapple condition says “In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform.”

Now lets say it’s a Tiger that is grappled. A tiger normally gets 2 claws and a bite. I interpret this as meaning the tiger can use one claw and his bite while grappled (one claw in inoperable but everything else works).

How about a Dragon? A dragon gets 2 claws, a bite, 2 wings, and a tail slap. Again, I interpret this as meaning the Dragon can use one claw, a bite, 2 wings, and a tail slap while grappled (one claw in inoperable but everything else works).

Now the Pinned Condition:
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. … A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take.
1) A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check.
2) A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component.

No other actions are mentioned.

Now lets say it’s a Tiger that is pinned. A tiger normally gets 2 claws and a bite. I interpret this as meaning the tiger gets NO attacks while pinned.

How about a Dragon? A dragon normally gets 2 claws, a bite, 2 wings, and a tail slap. Again, I interpret this as meaning the Dragon gets NO attacks while pinned.

How about the breathe weapon? Is a breathe weapon attack a “verbal” attack? Maybe not, I can see that the grappler could be holding the snout shut just like alligator wrestlers do.

This flow chart is a great idea, here are some comments:

For the document: PF Grapple Init - Defender-1.pdf

Attacker/ Grapple initiator

Add: If the AoO hits, the damage amount is used as the penalty to the CMB.

Change: Move Defender to adjacent square of Attackers choice to Move Defender to adjacent square

Defender
The whole “Defender tied up” branch is confusing and has some issues.

This branch should be more like this:

Defender tied up?
Delete: Defender free from tie up (I don’t see any benefit from this block)
Delete: Defender is fast tied up (Doesn’t matter if he was or wasn’t – it may have been harder to successfully tie him up but is does NOT affect his chances of escaping)

Is defenders (attack roll + CMB) higher than controllers (CMB + 20)?
Yes: Defender Free
No: Defender still tied up

Also for the tied up condition: Defender should get a choice to roll a CMB attack or make a strength check to break the rope. DC23 for hemp rope, DC24 for silk rope.

--------------------------------------------------

For document: PF Grapple Controller-1.pdf

The tie up branch has some issues:

There should be a block added asking if the defender is pinned or grappled

If the defender is pinned:
Since you have already maintained the grapple, the tie up maneuver AUTOMATICALLY succeeds. On the defender’s turn he can try to escape with a DC equal to 20 + controllers CMB.

If the defender is only grappled (not pinned) and the controller attempts to tie him up:
The controller must make an ADDITIONAL attack roll + CMB -10 vs. the defenders CMD. If this fails the defender is not tied up. The ambiguity here is whether or not the defender is free or still grappled upon failure. I think the answer is that he is still grappled since the check to maintain the grapple has already succeeded. If the tie up check succeeds, on the defender’s turn he can try to escape with a DC equal to 20 + controllers CMB.

Are they the same thing? The descriptions seem similar but not identical...

If a magus uses Spellstrike to deliver a touch spell through his weapon and misses, is he still holding the spell (ala regular touch attacks)? (in other words can he keep swinging until he hits thus setting of the touch spell?)

For the Delve do you use pregens or can you bring 4th level characters?

Bombs are considered a weapon and can be selected using feats such as Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus.

Does this mean Rapid Shot is a valid feat to use with Bombs?

How about after taking the "Fast Bombs" discovery?

Love the new Alchemist!

"Although alchemists don’t actually cast spells,
they do have a formulae list that determines what extracts
they can create (see page 7)."

I don't see this list on page 7. Was it left out or am I looking in the wrong place?

I played a Pathfinder Society scenario last night in the 1-2 level range with a brand new Alchemist. In the interest of avoiding spoilers I won’t name the scenario.

Stats:
1st level Human Alchemist: 20 Int, 16 Dex, Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot
Total attack bonus = 5 = 0 BAB + 3 Dex + 1 Throw Anything + 1 Point Blank Shot

I bought 6 vials of Acid in case I ran out of bombs during combat.

First combat: Our druid gets grappled by a large monster. I am 45 feet away with a PC in front of me. Due to the fact that prepping and throwing a bomb is a full round action I can’t move to a better position (a five foot step was not enough). Not wanting to hit the grappled PC my plan is to hit the monster with splash damage by aiming for a grid intersection with an AC of 5. My total bonus to hit was: 4 – 4 (soft cover) -8 (4 range increments) = -8. So I needed to roll a 13. If I didn’t, I would hit the PC. I dropped that idea and used a sling for 1d4-1 damage. Note that if I could have moved and attacked I would have been within 15’ with no cover and would have only needed to roll a 2 or better to succeed. The next round I decide to move into a better position. Although I only need to use a move action to get into position, I can’t bomb using a standard action so I take no action. The following round the combat is over.

Second Combat: Having learned my lesson I pull out an acid flask so I’ll be able to move and attack in the same round. The fighter opens a door and two Vargouilles are in the room. I won initiative (with my +8) and threw my acid vial at an intersection doing 7 points of splash damage (1 splash+ 5 Int + 1 Point Blank) killing both of them before anyone else acts. Nice.

Third Combat: The druid enters a room and is knocked below 0 with a sneak attack. Holding my vial of acid on one hand I move down the hall and into the room. I throw the acid at the rogue and hit for 11 damage. (Note that once again I could not have done this with my class bomb ability). A little later the rogue is surrounded by my allies such that I cannot throw a bomb without hitting an ally. One PC agrees to take splash damage thinking I could easily get the killing blow. I can’t aim for a direct hit without hitting even more allies so I aim for an intersection once again. I hit my ally and the rogue but it doesn’t kill the rogue. At this point I wish I had an effective non splash weapon. With an 8 Str and no offensive spells this isn’t going to happen.

Fourth combat: The fighter walking in front gets surprised by a wizard’s familiar delivering a touch spell and get knocked unconscious. I go next but can’t aim for a direct hit because the splash will hit my downed ally. I easily hit the intersection and do 7 points of splash. The other PCs kill the familiar before I act again. We all enter the room to find the wizard. I double move to get into range. The druid riding a tiger and the barbarian are able to reach the wizard ahead of me. I can’t get a direct hit (I’m noticing a pattern here) because my allies are adjacent to the wizard so I bomb the intersection using the class ability doing 7 points of splash damage finishing him off.

Fifth Combat: We get an opportunity to set up an ambush and so get a surprise round. Once again the class ability won’t let me bomb in the standard action I will get in the surprise round. Realizing this I arm my self with yet another acid flask. The druid beats me in initiative but agrees to delay so I can throw for a direct hit which I do for 8 damage on the main villain and 7 damage on a lackey. The rest of the party surrounds the villains and I never again get an open shot again without splashing my allies so I cheer from the sidelines (the 1d4-1 damage from the sling didn’t seem worth even rolling for).

Thoughts and Conclusions

At low levels, the 7 damage the Alchemist can do with splash is quite powerful. At fifth level the splash damage the Alchemist will be doing is only 9 points so it really doesn’t scale well. As noted above, in most cases I was forced to use splash damage so this becomes a concern.

I was somewhat surprised to see how frustrating it was not being able to throw and move. Considering that most fights end within three rounds, a round of inactivity is painful. The workaround of using acid or alchemist’s fire will only substitute well at lower levels. At higher levels not getting my 4d6+ of damage will seem quite a waste, not to mention losing the status effect of the discoveries. I hope that the class can be modified such that prepping the bomb is a swift action. This will still only allow a single bomb per round to be thrown, yet allow the Alchemist to move and throw in the same round.

The other issue I had was having a difficult time getting a clear shot due to the splash damage. I strongly believe there needs to be a mechanism such that the Alchemist can choose to forego the splash effect. This way he gets to attack when he otherwise couldn’t (due to collateral damage issues) and also get the benefits of discovery status effects. Without this ability the alchemist will often miss out on getting the higher damage and status effects the direct hits provide.

-Larry

My point is view is as a Pathfinder Society player so I’m never going to go above 12th level. This gives a grand total of only 3 discoveries: one of which has to go to ‘Infusion’ as described below and another I won’t get until 12th level and so will see very little play. Spells will never go above 4th level.

That leaves me with only one interesting discovery for most of my character’s career which is disappointing as I want to be a ‘variety’ bomber.

An Alchemist who wants effective bombs (the ‘Bomber Build’) is going to want an intelligence score as high as possible with a decent Dexterity as well. That leaves very little for Str and Con meaning he will not be in melee. The spell list of the Bomber is of very little help to him in combat as he needs little defense because he will stay away from melee as much as possible. His attacks are ranged touch anyway so bonuses to hit are not very enticing either. In order for his spell list not to go to waste he will have to take infusion so he can at least buff his party. Taking infusion removes one of his precious discoveries just to fix this problem. (Yes, I know Fly and Greater Invisibility are exceptions for a Bomber but the point still holds in general)

Potential Fixes:

Learn a new Discovery in place in one already known. This would allow discoveries fun at low levels to be replaced with more effective ones at high levels. An example is replacing Explosive with Smoke in order to qualify for Poison bomb at 12th level.

Allow an Alchemist to ‘drain’ his spell slots to give his bombs more damage or more status effects (stunning, blinding, slowing, expanded splash zone, etc..). This option allows him to remain ‘selfish’.

Another option is to have buffing bombs that he detonates around the party such as ‘Haste’.
This would use up on of his bombs for the day as well as a as a spell slot

Another option is to make infusion a class ability so it doesn’t use up one of the precious discoveries.

Another option is have lesser and greater discoveries. Greater discoveries are at 4th,8th, and 12th level as they are now but only include the more powerful discoveries.
Lesser discoveries would be at 2nd, 6th, and 10th and would include Feral Mutagen, Infusion, Smoke bomb, Sticky Poison, Shock Bomb, & Acid Bomb.

A stronger option was put forward elsewhere: discoveries every even level: I would take: Explosive Bomb, Force Bomb, Smoke Bomb, Frost Bomb, Stink Bomb, Poison Bomb, Sticky. These would provide lots of fun variety and I don’t think overpowered.

-Larry

Do Bomb Effects Stack?

For example does the Smoke bomb also cause damage?

If you have the Explosive bomb discovery and the force bomb discovery do you then have a force bomb with a larger splash radius?

How many items can a Alchemist Craft between Mods? Is there no limit as long as he has the cash?

"Alchemists can use the Craft (alchemy) skill to produce items with their Alchemy (Su) ability. Follow the Craft rules in the Core Rulebook as well as the alchemist's Alchemy ability description. Any item created must be properly noted on that scenario's chronicle sheet. Under Items Bought, note the gold amount spent and the item created. Note: Alchemists (and only alchemists) can use Craft (alchemy) to produce poisons but are restricted to the list below. "

"Clarified how animal companions calculate their hit points"

I can't seem to find this in the Guide v2.1 can someone please give me the page number?

it's the same, HP at 20 are 17 BAB is +17, they do not gain 1 HD per level, but go off table 3-3

Oops. I didn't notice that. Thanks.

What is the true BAB for Eidolons?

On page 6 it says "BAB: An eidolon’s base attack bonus is equal to its Hit Dice."

Table 3-3 shows otherwise. Which is it?

Given that Jason has ruled that claw attacks are primary attacks (not secondary as is started in the rules), at first level a quadruped can start with FIVE primary attacks!!! Now I'll spend my third point on Pounce and can charge for five primary attacks at the start of combat at first level. That does not seem remotely balanced.

Lets make this even more crazy. Every three points I can get two more primary attacks. I’ll never select limbs(Arms) because if I select Limbs(Legs) I get 10 extra feet of movement.

So at 6th level the quadruped is Large with a speed of 50’ and SEVEN primary attacks
At 9th level the quadruped is Large with NINE primary attacks and a speed of 60’

According to the Rend evolution:

"Whenever the eidolon makes two successful claw attacks
against the same target in 1 round, its claws latch onto
the flesh and deal extra damage."

So lets say I have 3 pairs of arms each with claws and all 6 attacks hit.
I would say that each pair of claws gets Rend damage for a total of three Rends.

Is this correct?

I friend and I were trying to decide if putting claws on legs gives you claw attacks. For example spending two evolution points (Clawx2) on a quadruped giving you 4 claw attacks.

I don't think so using this reasoning:

If you read the Limbs evolution carefully it only talks about speed increases with extra legs, Its not until they get to arms that they start talking about extra attacks. Plus in the Rake evolution it talks about growing claws on legs to get a rake attack - it doesn't say anything about getting claw attacks as well. Thus I believe claws on legs only give you rake attacks.

So can anyone say which it is?

Thanks.

According to the new rules, there doesn't seem to be any penalty to mutli-classing from a chaotic Barbarian to a lawful Monk aside from not being able to take anymore levels in Barbarian. Does this mean I can still rage after taking levels as a lawful monk?