Claw attacks with Legs?


Round 2: Summoner and Witch


I friend and I were trying to decide if putting claws on legs gives you claw attacks. For example spending two evolution points (Clawx2) on a quadruped giving you 4 claw attacks.

I don't think so using this reasoning:

If you read the Limbs evolution carefully it only talks about speed increases with extra legs, Its not until they get to arms that they start talking about extra attacks. Plus in the Rake evolution it talks about growing claws on legs to get a rake attack - it doesn't say anything about getting claw attacks as well. Thus I believe claws on legs only give you rake attacks.

So can anyone say which it is?

Thanks.


"Claws(ex): An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the end of its limbs , giving it two claw attacks. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage. The eidolon must have the limbs evolution to take this evolution. This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.

The fact that the Rake special ability is a 2 point evolution, as well as the rend evolution combined with the above tells me that it is how it says it is...

After all the tail evolution evolution doesn't say anything about needing a specific tail to get the tail slap or sting evolution, but that doesn't mean you can't take them.

And it would be straight silly to say you can't have claws on your legs (like say a tiger or lion or bear (oh my!)).

Also nothing says where those four legs are located... this could be a creature with a face in the middle and four legs around the face with nothing else (basically a wheel much like the Ilse of Man flag). In which case it would make lots of sense for it to have multiple claws on multiple legs... or the Chittering from other monster manuals... where the creature is nothing but legs!

Dark Archive

If you read the Claws evolution it says you grow claws on the ends of limbs and they do d4 damage. So you can put claws on Limbs (legs) and do that damage with an attack.

The spot in Rake that describes growing claws has an aura of flavor text around it to my eyes. If you already have claws on those limbs I see no reason why you'd grow more of them. What that evolution allows you to do is make special additional attacks with the back legs.

Edit: Gah!!! Ninja'd!!!


Abraham spalding wrote:

"Claws(ex): An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the end of its limbs , giving it two claw attacks. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage. The eidolon must have the limbs evolution to take this evolution. This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.

The fact that the Rake special ability is a 2 point evolution, as well as the rend evolution combined with the above tells me that it is how it says it is...

After all the tail evolution evolution doesn't say anything about needing a specific tail to get the tail slap or sting evolution, but that doesn't mean you can't take them.

And it would be straight silly to say you can't have claws on your legs (like say a tiger or lion or bear (oh my!)).

Also nothing says where those four legs are located... this could be a creature with a face in the middle and four legs around the face with nothing else (basically a wheel much like the Ilse of Man flag). In which case it would make lots of sense for it to have multiple claws on multiple legs... or the Chittering from other monster manuals... where the creature is nothing but legs!

Yes, but attacking with claws on your legs is typically called a rake in D&D terms. I'm not saying that getting claws on the legs is broken, but maybe you could give the rake ability claw attacks as well? Because, frankly, one extra primary attack for 2 EP only while maintaining grapple seems like a poor combo with pounce, and thus will not be taken by folks making quadrupeds with 50 attacks. With two claw attacks on legs, while only being primary when grappling, now that seems like a good use of two EP. Plus, if it wasn't restricted to quadrupeds, it might see some use in other forms, like making bipedal Velociraptors or serpentine Wyverns. I guess you could take claws with them but I don't know. Giving a grapple ability to a mobile creature, thematic or no, seems like a huge waste when you've got a creature with more strength and a creature with other grappling abilities waiting at the door. Maybe a playtest is in order.


No attacking with claws in a grapple with no penalty is called a rake.

Attacking with back claws is something that generally isn't actually in D&D. Fluff wise people have described the ability to use your rake while pouncing (part of the pounce ability) as using the rear legs but it hasn't actually been that way since 2nd edition.


Given that Jason has ruled that claw attacks are primary attacks (not secondary as is started in the rules), at first level a quadruped can start with FIVE primary attacks!!! Now I'll spend my third point on Pounce and can charge for five primary attacks at the start of combat at first level. That does not seem remotely balanced.

Lets make this even more crazy. Every three points I can get two more primary attacks. I’ll never select limbs(Arms) because if I select Limbs(Legs) I get 10 extra feet of movement.

So at 6th level the quadruped is Large with a speed of 50’ and SEVEN primary attacks
At 9th level the quadruped is Large with NINE primary attacks and a speed of 60’


For those interested in what I was talking about earlier it is a demon type by the name of Beur: Beur

Yes it gets a lot of attacks. But then any monster can have a lot of attacks... arms have their uses in that they would allow use of magical items and weapons.

I'm not saying it is balanced (I agree it probably isn't) I'm just saying what is possible currently.

Of course the giant octopus has 8 attacks and the hydra has five or move (and a cute ability of being able to attack with them all regularly), and the dragon gets up to 6. So it's not like there aren't creatures out there with this already... it's simply not a regular player option (though certainly is possible already).

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