Chirinide the Half-Elf's page

Believe me, you should have loads of confidence in the system. It has a simplistic approach that does not hamper or bog down role playing or interesting approaches to plot lines, like this one. I have been gaming for over 20 years, and this is a throwback to 2nd edition. I have reverted to playing 5E exclusively at my weekly tabletop game and multiple PbPs on this site.

Never played 2e, so no idea. I generally prefer midweight systems. I like the structure of such games when used right. Though too many tend to treat the rules as a binding contract rather than a tool, which is bad in my opinion.

Hey, I know for a fact the paintings are enchanted. I even said so before the knights came out of them.

(True story in a campaign I was in.)

Still debating whether dealing with 5th is worth it. The stuff I've seen of it hasn't filled me with confidence in the system.

???
I offered to play something else because it was clear you never be okay with anything about the character. I was offering that as a solution, not trying to blame you for forcing that.

In any case, have fun.

I did not mean to sound rude. I apologize about that.

1) Lycans are beastiary 2, and the first four beastiaries were described as being allowed.

2) Was built with same rules, as far as I can tell, though admittedly, the rules are not always balanced or fair, particularly with beastiary racess

3) Given my absolute willingness to give up dr, nat armor, pounce, etc, I'm not really sure what is so super mega anything about the character. The other plane thing was just an excuse to use my own culture for her and be inquisitive about the setting because I know very little about Golarion. And I would consider her a generalist, which has broad ability, but would always be outshined by a specialist (I was totally being outshined by the fighters in the last game and there was no level penalty.)

3b) as for special snowflake, well I always go for that. I find normal to be boring and bland. I very much dislike playing normal anything. I guess this is one point you and I will always irratate each other with.

4) the divine magic doesn't lend itself to how she used magic. It was a support thing, fly, illusions, creation. As far as I know, only three or four of my spells had divine equals, and divine doesn't lend itself to creation, enhancement, versatility, and trickery. Maybe it has just been too long, or new stuff or something changes that, but spell selection is a massive part of the difference. It isn't like divine and arcane have merely minor differences. I guess I just don't agree with your assessment of "similar."

5) Aside from the DR, nat armor, and base animal stats, (all things offered to be dropped), I don't see how a tiger is all that powerful. The base rules have to give it 6 hit dice just be cr 4, so without the defensive boosts of lycan, I don't see a 1 hit die tiger being powerful compared to 1 hit die normal. You might consider the pounce or grab as being extra feats, but I'd still find it a stretch to call it more than a single level ahead.

BTW, that was probably the best response I got. That was a very good way of putting it. Nothing in your post had me scratching my head trying to understand what was meant.

All in all though, seems to me that even a plain tiger with no lycan or shapeshifting stuff would be too much for you to be comfortable with, so can you give a little on the "special snowflake" at least, perhaps kobald, if not the masterless familiar? In fact I just built a kobald, but didn't get it digitized in time.

You make it sound like I've presented lots of unacceptable options, and I haven't.

Rules wise, it is up to the GM to decide how to balance powerful races. That said, I should have brought it up more in depth during recruitment and it didn't occur to me to do so. For that I'm sorry.

However, I haven't used any resources unavailable to anyone else. It isn't like lycans were off limits yet I got one anyway.

It was a perfectly allowable character. A couple players expressed concern that my character would be overpowered in comparison to them.

I offered all of two solutions to that problem. First, I suggested reducing a couple things, lvl, dr, etc. Second, I suggested dropping basically everything not essential to the concept of lycan (well the curse might be considered essential, but oh well).

That has been the limit of my suggestions.

I didn't like suggestions that eliminated my character's "character" and replaced it with a gimmick that didn't even do a major aspect of the character.

First, druid has vastly different spells and powers.
Second, all those options seemed to either make lesser versions of hybrid form (the most expendable part of the original build) which is so powerful, it has to be reduced even more than an animal form to keep it from being too much. But it was never the hybrid form I wanted, despite its power. The other suggestions were basically to diluted the animal by making it far more general and able to shift into many things, also far outside the concept. I'm sorry if I don't agree that those are similar. If I was playing a gimmick, or unestablished character, maybe, but I don't play gimmicks and this character and a fair bit of her heritage is established.

In any case, Like I said before, I presented a couple options that eased the mechanical power while maintaining conceptual integrity.
And I also said, that if you didn't feel that simply reducing power was enough, you could always ask me to just make a new character, in which case it would be a new character without any pretense of keeping stuff from Chirinide.

I'd play Chirinide as a first level character if you'd take it, but I got the impression that wouldn't be enough (even though even I would consider her too weak for this level). Hence me trying to reduce the things complained about such as dr, which I saw as being helpful due to lack of armor, but not essential to the character.

But in any case, if the race builder was so much a problem, would a level one lycan be too powerful for your tastes? If so, just ask for a brand new character. I've got other characters, just none at this level. Perhaps a masterless familiar (too weak?).

And here I was hoping for more insight from others.

This is a problem I clearly don't understand. If nothing else comes from this, I'd like to at least walk away with some understanding of what the problem is.

If the build still seems broken, then it isn't fixed. But that is why I'm asking for more detail on what is so broken about it. I've removed the parts that were complained about, and said I'd take a level lenalty, yet players still call it broken. Clearly then, I have no idea why. So, what is so broken and overpowered about the fix I presented? I can't do more to fix it without knowing more about what is so wrong with it.

If you want a new character completely, then just say so, and I'll just build something completely new.

My only issue at the moment is that I'm not to going to make something completely new and pretend it is the same character. Either I'll make a new character, downgrade this character while maintaining the integrity of the character herself, or leave.

I'm trying to take the downgrade option, but until I get better feedback on the problem I've gone as far I can go in the dark.

If for whatever reason, you find even that too much, say so and I'll walk. I've other stuff as well. Not much that lets me explore my nonstandard characters, but other stuff still.

You know, I've had to fight for underpowered characters on many occasions, to defend against those who thought I'd drag them down. It is kinda funny to be reversed for once.

The character was accepted. The players had a problem with the character on the basis of power.

There are only two solutions, reduce the power of the existing character, or bring in a new character. If you are going to do the latter, then quit playing with me and just outright ask for a new character, whether mine or from recruitment. If going for the former solution, then there is nothing wrong with trying to preserve the character while reducing the mechanical power. The race build is just the method of achieving that, nothing more.

So far, most of the suggestions have been to make a new character, without calling it a new character. Solutions that shatter the narrative concept, and keep nothing more than the most basic of gimmicks, and even that gets twisted away from the starting concept. I'm sorry if I have an issue with that.

The thing that really gets me though, is the supposed list of problems, which when presented with a solution to those problems that still preserves nearly everything else, gets met with as much resistance as a token gesture.

Before,
DR 10
5 nat armor
lots of stat bonuses
pounce
rake
grab
scent

After,
dr 5 (only in an unarmored form)
scent
standard stat adjustments

First, large size needs the giant subtype if and only if, you also have the humanoid base type. It does not require having the humanoid type.

Second, I did not just go grab stuff from the builder that was cool. I took my existing character and concept and built that, without some of the more powerful options. Basically I made a weaker version of what I already had. That is completely different from just making some new concept.

Three, this is an existing and developed character, not something new to be radically altered and changed before becoming established.

Fourth, classes I've never heard of that radically change the character and her history/background, saving only some lesser version of transformation which has no conection to what her transformation is suppossed to be.

Fifth, changing from a tiger to a half-elf isn't even the issue. It isn't powerful really. The powerful aspects were the hybrid form that got the best of everything. The tiger form gets scent, and pounce or grab. Okay stuff, helpful sure. The real power stuff is the DR, nat armor, and curse. I offered a removal of two and reduced the third, which also removed some additonal stuff from the tiger that wasn't bad, but not game breaking. All of that plus lower level overall.

So quite honestly, what exactly is the problem? You said you were afraid of being outshined because of my power. What is so powerful about what I suggested. Regardless of whether it gets played or not, I don't understand what the problem is. Do you honestly have that big of a problem with a single alternate form that can not use most lf my class levels? And why would I want wildshape, which just detracts from my one alternate shape?

You had a problem with power. Okay, that I get. You keep suggesting fundemental changes that alter the core of the character herself. So how about you clarify what exactly is so powerful about it.

What was posted before implied the issue was DR, nat armor (despite applying when I don't get to have manufactured armor), some stat bonuses, pounce, rake, and a bite (the last three usable when I lack manufactured anything). Honestly, I can see that as being a problem in hybrid form, as I get all that plus everything else. But without hybrid, those issues are severly lessened. Even then, I removed most of those aspects.

The 30 pt build also makes three false assumptions, first, it assumes all abilities are available all the time, but truthfully, some are only available as a tiger, second, it assumes all class abilities are available all the time, but I can't cast spells as a tiger unless the GM allows the Natural Spell feat to apply (and I take it), and third, it assumes that equipment is usable all the time, but truthfully, as a tiger I get zero equipment (though passive magic items still function). As a tiger, I get no armor and only a bite and claw attacks. Sneak attack if I'm lucky will still fall way short of a fighter on normal.

All in all, considering that I will accept a lower level, made worse from cross classing, and the limitations above. What is there left that you consider so overpowering?

I kinda need to understand this.

How about this,

3 Monstrous Humanoid
7 Large size
0 Standard +2 str, +2 Wis, -2 int
0 Standard languages
0 Speed 30'
-2 Darkvision removed
1 lowlight vision
4 Scent
2 Claws
2 Bite d6
3 DR 5/Silver
2 Bonus to Perception
3 Change Shape Lesser
1 Feline Empathy (reworked rodent empathy)
1 Camouflage
2 Quadruped
1 Fast

30 points as is, though quadruped is a bit overpriced since it assumes arms, I also had to remove darkvision from the type, I just took the cost of darkvision and subtracted it.

(for interesting reference, though I removed these,
You could add Grabbing appendages to take the place of Grab and Rake for 6 points. Powerful Charge can take the place of Pounce for 2 points. Add anywhere from 2 - 12 for Nat armor. For 40 points or so.)

Basically, the half elf form is the alternate shape, while this "race" is the basic Tiger form. The ability scores stay the same instead of changing. Quadruped of course, save that tigers have no arms so it is probably overpriced. Still at 30 points, the guide suggests a +2 ecl till lvl 5 and a +1 ecl till lvl 10.

Anyway, thought I present this build. Much calmer than 60 points, and with the defenses stripped...

Also, no need to even pretend on the curse, can just say it is in the blood like with kitsune, rather than a curse to be passed on through bite.

Quite honestly I'd rather drop the hybrid form rather than the full animal form. Tiger version of a kitsune you could say.

The skinwalker, from my brief overview (never heard of them before so thanks for the link), seems to drop the animal form instead, and reduces the hybrid.

The hybrid is the most powerful form, but the least essential to the concept of lycanthrope, particularly my character.

With Chirinide, the idea was to have the half elf mage who shifts into a tiger warrior. Origin story and all is based on clans of folks who could take animal form.

The flavor of that shifting physically between magic or combat is really what I like. The character doesn't really see either form as anything but her natural self.

Mechanically, the hybrid form always seemed like cheating to me. Flavorful sure, but gaining all advantages of both other forms. I can do without that and not feel a twinge of regret.

I really have no idea what you are talking about with classes, so Ill look it up.

The specific stats of high ability scores, 10 DR and +5 nat armor (I saw as good replacement for lack of armor), but certainly not essential to the character. Could reduce or eliminate those if desired.

In 3.5, afflicted lycans were 2 ecl, while natural were 3ecl.

I think the race guide has a good point about reducing that as total character level goes up, so that may a good spot to check as well.

Pathfinder classes tend to be more powerful as well despite leaving DCs and similar mostly similar.

To be quite honest, I forgot about that. She is an existing character (hence the older, unrefined sheet layout). I can drop a few more levels if desired. Though her power is split between magic and melee, so it isn't as bad as it could be.

3 lvls of rogue, 8 of sorcerer, cl is only 10.

Dex and cha are bumped by +6 magic items. Which can also be removed if desired.

Also, in tiger form, magic can't be used, which is two thirds of my levels. Could always deny use of hybrid form, which is the powerful one cause that gives all benefits, otherwise, I only gain the best of lycanthropes when shifted into animal form where I can't use spells.

Also, most classes with DR also wear armor. Chirinide does not have armor, she relies on those natural defenses rather than building upon them.

AC is only 17 or 23, so not exactly high for this level.

If she were a fighter or similar, it would be far worse, particularly hybrid form, but as 2/3rds spellcaster, far less of a problem, particularly if she can't take hybrid form.

You may also want to look at her last game, or even just her posts for the last game. I'm not an optimizer, nor do I play like one.

I hope to actually play with you guys and alleviate and worries. I don't think the problem is that big, but I don't mind accepting some limits to make everyone feel more comfortable.

I totally need a summery because I have no idea who those npcs are. I also haven't heard of Grauls.

Chirinide might have been the subject of advances. She does like to play with her food ;)

Yep, hoping for playing!

Oh, note that I have updated her, but the sheet is still the same she had. I will change that, but I stupidly decided to apply for a bunch of games at once. We'll see if I actually get into any of them.

Sounds good.
:)
Whee! Time to play!

I am rogue and sorceress. I didn't even realize my profile didn't say. Anyway,

I'm not familiar with Pathfinder's set of abilities they give to vampires. In some versions, I wouldn't have a problem, but considering the above post implies lots of very powerful abilities, particularly creating spawn of some sort, I also question this.

That said, my character wouldn't mind a vampire in the group, assuming he hasn't demonstrated any reason for her to be more distrustful than usual.

I'll roll HP and make my adjustments tonight. Long past time for me to get some sleep.

I have this character, lvl 12, but I can step her back a lvl. I'll be putting her on my new sheet layout at some point anyway. She is a weretigress.

If not her, I'll make a character from scratch, in which case, would word casting be allowed?

I'm still checking in but yeah, waiting on the GM I believe.

Are we not playing anymore?

Chiri grabs the bow, and moves up to the hole shifting to normal.
"Who's bright idea was it to start this while we were scattered? Next someone is going to activate a golem, let's collect together first and ready for battle before doing so."

She takes a shot down the hole,
1d20 + 12 ⇒ (20) + 12 = 321d6 ⇒ 6
1d20 + 12 ⇒ (7) + 12 = 19

Chirinide fires an arrow at the golem.
1d20 + 12 ⇒ (10) + 12 = 221d6 ⇒ 6

Then she drops the bow, shifts form, and gets ready to charge.

1d20 + 8 ⇒ (3) + 8 = 11

Why did he touch the statue that someone said was a golem? seriously?
She facepalms.

I figure the time limit being 2-4 days. Cause everytime it doesn't show up it because I hadn't looked at it in 2-4 days (because no updates had showed because no one posted for that long)

I figure it remembers the last post for each thread BTW.

"Ruining such a tapestry when you can simply walk around it. There is something weird about you two."

Chiri walks behind the tapestry from one end to the other, looking in any doors before crossing them (and not walking across if something is there to see her.)

Seems to be an ever increasing problem. This is not the only game this happens to, though I suspect that after a certain amount of time has passed it doesn't display updates (maybe it remembers your last posts in a seperate file with a space/time limit)

Chirinide casts darkvision on Malcolm. "How about now?"

Still no updates showing.
Darkvision 60ft for 12 hours.
we should start a timeline so we know when things are gonna run out and such.

Didn't show me updates for awhile either

Chiri will fire an arrow to knock the chalice over into the pool, if she thinks an arrow would do the trick.

(If I understand the positioning right I am avoiding the chalice effect) Then she will peek around the corner to the south.

LOL ninjad

Grats GM! Sorry I didn't notice before but the new posts weren't marked on my campaigns page somehow.

"We go that way!" she points at the, 1d3 ⇒ 1 door clockwise from our entry.

"I am half elven. Do elves here not have fey blood?" She inquires of the elf.

"It's an ability that any from the clans can do naturally, and has nothing to do with certain evil monsters that peasents try to kill with pitchforks." She has "oops" written all over her face.

Chirinide shrinks down to normal, looks at the others, "I like to bash in heads sometimes too."

Chiri moves to flanking the knight and fires again,
1d20 + 12 + 2 - 4 ⇒ (10) + 12 + 2 - 4 = 20
1d6 + 2d6 ⇒ (1) + (5, 4) = 10

Random Number Generator
Actually it is a complex formula that requires a seed to produce a number and the same seed will produce the same numbers, so it's not really random. Most computers use the current time as a seed since it is a different time every time you use it.

Ini: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (1) + 8 = 9
Chiri looses an arrow right past Aelaeron's hat as it flys straight towards the phantom knight,

Attack vs FF unless he sees me: 1d20 + 12 - 4 ⇒ (4) + 12 - 4 = 12
Damage, bow: 1d6 ⇒ 5
Damage if sneak attack successful: 2d6 ⇒ (4, 2) = 6

I don't like RNGs very much, rarely a good roll, and when one does come along it's usually not very helpful.

So, what do you know that Nex doesn't, that allows you to think of it but not him?

Also the conjuration might just keep the candles lit if they go out.

I have no more reason to think that then the character for one, and two in ooc quote implies what I am thinking and not Chiri, though in this case I have no reason for her not be suspicious of the paintings and a few reasons for her to be suspicious. Nothing of the statement implies or comes from outside knowledge. (unless I'm right then it might appear as though I read or heard of the module, but truthfully I'm just using my head which is something I am talented in doing, the upside of Ausperger's)

Now that I think of it, why wouldn't people who live in a world of amazing and strange magics, think of strange and magical traps as possible? Particularly when having studied magic themselves?

Edit: Chiri was the victim of a cubic gate, she is used to the idea of ridiculous magic, I don't think she is gonna believe that something in this castle is pure mundane, someone very powerful made the door, then the gargoyle heads, then the chalice. Why in the blue blazes would Chiri believe the paintings to be safe?

I am thinking the fighters come to life and fight us, as though we are the "onrushing enemy", that's what I think, the style so far has not been to follow the standard profile but rather wickedly creative.

Chiri looks in from outside the room, and watches the others.

Malcolm don't get any ideas, I'm right behind the front. Chirinide isn't a glass cannon, and doesn't act like one either. She in fact was the scout many times. Hence the over-sized stealth skill.

Meanwhile, everyone is wondering where I got off to, not realizing that I'm close by and listening to Malcom make noise.

There are spikes already on them, they look like your old ones except material.

You get your spells when you pray, sleep not required. Also you can spend 15 minutes to change a prepared spell. Wizards can too, but only if they left the slot open at the beginning of the day.

What about traps? Want to keep an eye out for those as well right? Lol

Chirinide sneaks along with everyone else.
Stealth: 1d20 + 31 ⇒ (19) + 31 = 50

edit, Wow, that was a good roll, somehow I wonder if it will actually come into play.

Can I save this one for later? Like right before the big boss or when trying to sneak through a roomful of pitfiends?

I made them from wood, with a little teflon weave but unless GM says I can do otherwise the shields will have standard stats. I didn't specify light or heavy so you can pick that.

"What is it with you folks and this obsession over who is in front?"