Cap'n Jose Monkamuck's page

FatR wrote:

gbonehead wrote:

I don't run a "kill the gods" campaign.

Then, frankly, you have no businness running epic games

Wow. So for you the ONLY viable option for an epic-level campaign is a "kill the gods" type scenario? I pity your lack of imagination, especially considering this hobby's reliance on imagination.

And considering the d100 epic campaign ideas table in the book itself....

Bear in mind that just because something requires a high level spell, that doesn't mean it requires a high level caster to be behind it.

Perhaps sometime in the past a very powerful wizard/sorcer/etc. created an item to allow someone to do exactly that. Remember that magic items do not have to exactly match the effects of the spell they were based off of. Later on this item fell into the hands of the idividual who screwed over that PC. The NPC in possession of it could be a thief who stole it, merchant who bought it, random schmo saw it fall out a window and picked it up, whatever you want.

This has the advantage that you can work the hook into your story later. Maybe the players wants to track the guy down and get revenge. Maybe a rash of the same thing starts happening in a city the characters are in and he remembers important clues from his experience. Maybe the wizard who made it is tracking down people who had it used on them and enlisting their aid to capture the theif. Maybe another wizards wants to research the effects to make his own and is going to enlist the PC's help, willing or otherwise.

Just say that it is an item based on one of the spells mentioned in this thread. Then say the player doesn't know any other details. Work the rest of it in when you are ready and have a good idea of what you want it to do.

I do have one little piece of advice for the party:

When someone is disarming a trap STAND BACK!!!!!

As this simple advice does not seem to have been followed, my sympathy is drastically limited. If he hadn't found the trap it would be one thing. But he did find it so anyone other than himself getting caught it in has only themselves to blame.

Although at 12th level a prismatic spray trap seems more than a little excessive. How did it get made in the first place? It would require someone with the caster level to make it as an item which means either a) there is a high level caster ahead who can drop them on you himself or b) the GM didn't bother to think about that and should get a smack on the back of the head. If it's a then you might want to rethink being there in the first place. If it's b you can tell your GM when you smack him that I told you to do it.

My only experience with an epic game came from a D&D campaign I ran. It did not start out epic. In fact I started it at 3rd level (I do that with most of my games so the characters are slightly less crunchy). Two and a half years of solid game player later and the characters were well into epic. When I finally stopped running the lowest character was 25th and the highest was 29th (with a few templates he picked up along the way through RP).

Personally I thought it was a lot of fun, but hard to run. At high levels it was very hard to make encounters that wouldn't a) wast a player a turn almsot guaranteed and/or b) go down by round too. Believe me it was much more a case "and" than "or". It does get difficult to run.

Personaly I would never start a game epic or have too much interesting in playing one that does. However if the players earn their way up there, then they've got it coming to them.

Ones I have run and enjoyed over the years. These are rated based on my personal experience with them. The only ones I have not run myself that are listed are Vampire and Call of Cathulhu.

Easy to run/good for new players:

Jade Claw (very simple intuitive system, but excellent)
4E (I can't bring myself to call it D&D, but it is easy to run and make an excellent way to introduce non-gamers to RPGs)

Moderately easy to run/good for players who have a bit of experience:

BESM (Nothing is worked up for you, so the GM has a lot of work to do, but otherwise an easy to use system.)
3.5/Pathfinder (Lots of materials, lots of monsters and options. Can be unkind to new players/GMs who don't understand some of the basics, but not too hard to get a handle on.)
Anima (Like BESM not much prestatted, and some of the things get complicated, but with a good GM it runs pretty well.)
Hero System (Again not much is statted up for you. Some of the mechanics get complicated, but over all an easy system.)
Shadow Run (A good system for intermediate players. Lots of options, cool setting and great potential. It can get complicated in places, but not overly so.)

Needs and experienced GM/can be very difficult for new players.

Role Master (Has some good points, but is an EXTREMELY complicated system in some respectss. Not a good starting point for gaming. Be warned, character generation takes forever and leveling up is a pain.)
GURPS (Awesome system, but very wide open with not much pregenerated in the newest edition. Some of the rules can get extrodinarily complicated. Also be warned it is a very gritty systems. Death can come all too easily sometimes. Not the best system to start new players in. Still the realism and flexibility can produce an amazing game with good players and a good GM.)
Vampire: The Masquerade (I put this here not because the system is complicated, but because I can see how this can so easily go wrong. This system requires a good, flexible GM who can keep the flow of the story going.)
Call of Cathulhu (Like vampire it takes an expert GM to set the tone and keep things flowing without it turning to crap.)
Hackmaster (Delightful game, espcially for those who have played older edition of D&D. Still the are a LOT of quirks and oddities in the system so it can be very rough on newer players who don't understand where things are coming from.

It uses the FATE system. I'm not familiar with it but http://www.faterpg.com/ has some info about it. I think i have to get the Dresden RPG - I am a huge fan of Butcher's writing and the Dresden series in particular (shame the TV show was so terrible).

I thought the TV show was excellent. I was sorely disappoint when it was canceled. Not as good as the books of course, but then again what show/movie is?

I'm currently running a game using it. I enjoy it a lot and my players are loving it. The mechanics remind me of role master a lot. Everything is done with d10 or d100, mostly d100. Attacking is done by the attacker and the defender both rolling d100, adding and subtracting a bunch of stuff, then checking a table. Skills are done by rolling an open ended d100 and adding your bonus to see how well you do.

Good:
Fairly easy to learn system for most things.
Very interesting spells and powers.
Facinating setting.

Bad:
Very, VERY minimal pregeneration of NPCs/Monsters. Almost everything needs to be designed by the GM.
The math means that combat can take a while, especially if there are large numbers of participants.
Some of the mechanics (such as designing Ki techniques) get complicated and can be difficult to follow.
I appreciate them trying to make you need too many skills espcially since you have to buy them using the same points you use to buy your combat abilities/magic/psionics/ki stuff (more or less), but I keep wanting to have players roll skills that don't exist and don't have any obvious equivalent.

Interesting:
Three main kings of powers Ki, Magic and Psionics, none of which work the same.
Magic has a LOT of spells and many of them are quite interesting. Nothing prevents players from having very high level spells starting out except for GM ruling. The in combat magic is limited by the fact taht while spell casters have huge reserves of magic, they can only access it a little bit at a time. Knowing a spell isn't too hard, casting it in a usable length of time can be.
Ki powers can take time to get unless you learn a lot of unarmed combat are designed by the player using a mix and match system for their effects. Ki powers like magic limit how quickly you can access your energy.
Psionics interesting powers, with some ability to combine them to make unique combiations. They can be used as much as you want, unless you fail to make the activation roll. Failing to activate the power makes you take fatigue (and you don't have much fatigue).

If you want to get technical about it. Remember the True Strike specifies the only your next strike get the bonuses (including the no miss chance). So if they whine about the pricing rules as written, let them have it. Then make it clear that the True Strike spell itself AS WRITTEN makes this a 1 shot item.

Two of the players in my campaign have rings of command word True Strike. It only cost them 1800gp (CL 1 x Spell Level 1 X 1800 for a command word activated). Of course it only lasts 1 round and takes a standard action to activate. As we've played it, it is a useful but NOT overly powerful item. In fact with the time it takes to activate they very rarely use it once combat is started.

Sorry for the lack of updates, but rest assured neither the game nor the thread is dead. Unfortunately between some player problems, school, work and other things I've haven't had time and motivation recently to update. The good news is that Monday is the last day of school. On top of that my work schedule is easing up thanks to a new hire and a co-worker finally coming off sick leave. So within the next week or two I intend to bring this up to date and keep it that way.

About the player situation. The bad news is that Droodad had to bow out for the time being due to personal reasons. Silent Man unfortunately wrecked his car thanks to his brakes failing. Silent Man's brother wasn't interested in the game and so has dropped. Wiz is getting married this summer and moving out to the midwest and has been skipping games to go out and visit frequently (can't blame him). So for a while I was down to only Kitty (who has to arrive late due to work), Tin Man and Blingy.

Now the good news. Silent Man was finally able to get his personal belongings out of his car last week and has rejoined the group as of last weekend. Droodad and I will be trying to find time for her to do one on one stuff while she is unable to attend the game. She is one of the best players I've ever had (and a very good friend), so I'm not letting her go easily.

While Wiz may be leaving us I expect 3 news players to join. This weekend two friends of Blingy who are new to gaming will be joining. Their schedule may be a little unreliable for a month or so, but after that it should be fine. They are new to the game and don't have much experience, but I think they have potential.

Also Blingy's real life girlfriend will be moving out here this summer. After hearing Blingy talk about it she has become very interested. In a visit week before last she brough a character that she had made by having him read the books to her over the phone. The character was a pretty good one and she is seriously getting into the game, so I'm looking forward to her joining.

It has been a rough couple of months for the game, but things are back on track and looking up.

In my current campaign I have a knight (Tin Man for those of you who read the journal). He had problems with the class because A) his dice hate him and B) he couldn't really remember his class abilities very well. I discussed it with him and he eventually took an OGL prestige class called Stalwart Defender that works better for him because it focuses on being tough as nails, not on special abilities. This is a problem with the player, not the class.

I think that the Knight it an excellent class. However there are two important things about it before a player takes it. First is that it is a surprisingly tricky class. The abilities require good tactical thinking and teamwork to make use of. I don't recommend it for someone's first character.

The second is that the player needs to recognize the knight for what it is. It is not the main damage dealer, although it can do decent at that if done right. The goal of the class is to defend, not attack. If the player wants to play the role of protector then it is an extremely good class.

Hope that helps. For the record it and the beguiler are the only two classes in that book I find to be worth bothering with.

Well, I’m going to make a long story short. The section of the Underdark was home to a Beholder and his many minions (being able to use Charm Person and Charm Monster at will has its benefits). Booby traps such as vats of molten lead, permanently animated boulders and a strategically placed pit and spike traps served to keep the party on their toes. The welcoming committee of barbarian minotaurs dished out damage left and right. Finally the beholder himself provided some entertainment before falling before the party’s blades. Tin Man actually RPed being charmed quite well.

Eventually they did reach their destination and dropped off Silent Man for his training. (Silent Man has missed some sessions recently due to a car accident. He is alright and we hope he can rejoin us soon). The party then hired the wayfarer’s guild to send them all to Farshore for some shopping and R&R.

Here Blingy hired the Fabricator to make him a flying ship. He only paid for the ship itself, not for the VERY expensive enchantment that will allow it to fly. He hopes to make enough money for that very soon.

Many of the party members also decided to join the arena in Farshore as gladiators. Wiz put up his own little challenge that he and I will play out later. In the meantime Blingy, Tin Man and Kitty took a challenge being offered by one of the senior members of the arena. The prize was a 1 year contract for the services of a moderately skill (10th level) fighter and a “camp follower”. Blingy felt this was a little too close to slavery for his taste so he enlisted the help of his companions to free the two from this duty.

The opponent of a Wartroll Duskblade (I made him one on the spur of the moment, and now I realize that their spell list SUCKS). The fight was nonlethal, which meant the wartroll had to use a merciful sword. Of course the party members got to use their regular weapons as no weapon they had could deal the troll lethal damage.

The fight was long and hard and a very, very close call for the party. The main saving grace was well into the fight the troll lost his temper and went all out against Tin Man. Unfortunately for the troll not only did he not hit, he managed to pop a blood vessel in his eye that made it difficult for him to see. From there on he landed almost no blows on the party. This was good for the party as they were collectively on their last legs. (The troll pulled a fumble card which gave him a miss chance for 4 rounds and I KEPT RILLING THE DAMN MISS CHANCE.)

The party did finally go with Kitty to explore the ruined temple that was supposedly the original home of his order. They hired the Wayfarer’s guild to take them there and back, since the trip would have been very, very long otherwise. The first day at the temple proved very boring. The party couldn’t find any hidden door, monsters or anything else remotely interesting.

Early on the second day something that had been nagging at the back of Kitty’s mind came to the fore. He remembered that in the temple he grew up in the training hall had a large depression in the center. It was used for a few unusual exercises designed to improve flexibility and balance. Of course many a new student had questioned why they used the depression when there were other methods that worked better. The answer was of course “tradition”. Yet there was no depression like that here in the remains of the training hall.

When Kitty went to examine the place where the depression should have been he found that the flagstones there were able to shift just a little bit. He realized that the exercises he had done as a novice might be the key here. He was right, but it took his several attempts to prove it. As he did the exercises correctly the stones would slip just a very little bit and lock into place. As he performed the final movements the floor dropped away revealing an entrance to an underground area.

Descending into the depths the party found themselves in an underground tunnel leading only one directly. After a short distance the tunnel went through a 40ft square room. In this room stood 4 figures wearing hooded robes. All that could be seen of the figures under the robes were a pair of glowing red eyes.

The party did attempt to talk with the figures, but the figures were having none of it. The fight was swift and brutal. Once defeated the robes proved to be completely empty. Wiz eventually identified them as a version of a Dread Guard (of course with LOTS more HD and monk abilities). From here Kitty continued on alone as the remaining tests and secrets were ones that should only be seen by a member of his order. (Hopefully we can play that out at some point).

(Question for Turin, what is the Fabricator’s actual name? I don’t recall you ever giving him one in the Savage Tide campaign. Also the version of the Savage Tide player’s guide that we had had several organization in Sasserine and how to track your rating with them. I downloaded the player’s guide from Paizo but it didn’t have that. Anyone have a copy of that? I want to use it as a basis for the arena in Farshore in my campaign.)

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

My favorite answer has always been a simple little item that I came up with.

Amulet of Hidden Darkness

This amulet foils any attempt to detect the targets alignment through Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos. Further more the amulet itself does not radiate any magic that can be picked up with Detect Magic. Anyone using Analyze Dweomer, Arcane Sight and Greater Arcane Sight who examines the amulet may make a DC 11 Will save to detect the magic of the amulet.

CL 1, Cost 3,500pg, Undetectable Alignment, Nystul's Magical Aura.

Basically the item is simply a use activated Undetectable Alignment with a constant Nystul's Magical Aura to prevent it from getting picked up by Detect Magic. Also with the rules in the DMG you can pay 1500gp to add a permanent Nystul's Magical Aura to an item. This can be used to make either stealth items that can't be detected with detect magic or really gaudy items so that it seems the bad guy (or hero) has tons of magical gear without really having much.

PS if it is just to make a nonmagical item seem magic it only costs 1000gp.

I'm thinking you're wanting Nystul's Undetectable Aura there instead.

In any case, I've always house ruled, since 1st ed, that Amulets of Nondetection have the Undetectable Aura as a built-in feature, since there's really no point in having a magical amulet that shields you from all detection but glows like the One Ring itself.

I disagree with that. Nondetection in and of itself will foil the detect magic when the item is being worn unless the caster beats the caster level check to overcome the nondetection. Nystul's is overkill for the most part. I thought it was an appropriet extra since it didn't raise the cost too much. It's also nice to have an excuse when the party "why couldn't we detect it?" I had an Anti-Paladin travel with the party for a while wearing one. One of my favorite scenes was when he actually showed the amulet to one of the party members without the party member realizing what it was. Of course that was because it was in the shape of a locket that had a small portrait of the guy's wife and kid.

My favorite answer has always been a simple little item that I came up with.

Amulet of Hidden Darkness

This amulet foils any attempt to detect the targets alignment through Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos. Further more the amulet itself does not radiate any magic that can be picked up with Detect Magic. Anyone using Analyze Dweomer, Arcane Sight and Greater Arcane Sight who examines the amulet may make a DC 11 Will save to detect the magic of the amulet.

CL 1, Cost 3,500pg, Undetectable Alignment, Nystul's Magical Aura.

Basically the item is simply a use activated Undetectable Alignment with a constant Nystul's Magical Aura to prevent it from getting picked up by Detect Magic. Also with the rules in the DMG you can pay 1500gp to add a permanent Nystul's Magical Aura to an item. This can be used to make either stealth items that can't be detected with detect magic or really gaudy items so that it seems the bad guy (or hero) has tons of magical gear without really having much.

PS if it is just to make a nonmagical item seem magic it only costs 1000gp.

I apologize for the long silence. School, a complicated schedule and a missed game session has led to this. Hopefully things will be back on track by the end of the coming week, more or less.

When last we left the party they were preparing to head out to help Kitty track down the origin of his monastery. Unfortunately since he missed the session where they would have started that the party went with a different adventure. The party, minus Droodad who has gone off for some personal meditation and reflection decided to help escort Silent Man to a city in the nation of Suundi where supposedly there resides someone who can train him the secrets of another style he uses.

Now the problem with getting to Suundi is the fact that has no gate and is completely surrounded by nations ruled by the Scarlet Brotherhood. Now the Scarlet Brotherhood is Lawful Evil. Our erstwhile party has some good tendencies and very strong chaotic tendencies. So they decided the best way to stay out of trouble would be to stay out of those areas. This seemed an especially good idea as the Scarlet Brotherhood had recent acquired itself an arcane wielding group that called themselves the Red Wizards. No one was quite sure where they came from, but their power was quite formidable and worked with the Scarlet Brotherhood.

The party decided to head to the Lendore Isles and from there take a ship to Suundi as that is the closest gate not controlled by the Scarlet Brotherhood. Here they met a strange member of the crew who would eventually follow them for a while.

(This is McStabby’s new character as he was unhappy with his rogue. Despite the existence of the Monk class there is no “oriental” area in the game at present. However he really, really wanted to play a version of a character from a video game. I think it’s the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but I could be wrong. So he ended up sailing here from where ever I end up putting the oriental area. I seem to be completely unable to get the name pronounced right, which is something like Liu Bo, so the character will be called Lobo from now on. Mainly because it amuses me.)

Unsurprisingly their ocean voyage did not go uninterrupted. They were eventually set upon by two ships sailing the flag of the Scarlet Brotherhood. The captain of the party’s vessel quite accurately assumed that the approaching ships were acting as privateers to discourage trade with Suundi. The much worse news was that the two privateers had much faster vessels than the party did.

The pirate fight was quite a bit of fun. Some of the highlights include the expression on Wiz’s face when he discovered that each vessel has a spell caster dedicated solely to counter spelling. Each vessel in addition to minions had a wizard who used attack spells, a wizard who counter spelled and monk. A fun spell called Ram’s Charge I believe (2nd level spell from the spell compendium) sent Blingy off Blingy Jr.’s back and into the drink. This would have been a lot more entertaining if he hadn’t had a ring of arming which prevented me from having him dragged to the bottom of the ocean by the weight of his armor. One of the monks, a Halfling, ran up to Lobo and proceeded to lay the smack down. 6 hits, 3 of which were crits sent the mighty warrior well into unconsciousness. Unfortunately Lobo had retribution armor which also put the monk unconscious.

Eventually the party captured the vessels without slaughtering too much of the crew. Both the counter spellers and one of the other mages managed to get away thanks to a teleport spell. The party eventually struck a deal with the captain of the vessel that had been carrying them. He would take the two ships, expand his operation and eventually start paying them a fee.

The made landfall and head for the city Silent Man was searching for. Along the way they found the entrance to a small section of the underdark. Their interest was sparked when they saw two passages out of here and the signs of a very high level magical battle. The decided a little side trip might not be out of order.

There are also some spells that will do it. One will increase the range to 30ft. Another one will make the range unlimited, but only if you don't move. I think they are in the complete arcane.

I've got an idea for a magic item for a Pathfinder campaign I want to write. Its a staff. But, I don't want it to simply be a spell container.

Any reason I can't simply design it as a wondrous item that is coincidentally a staff?

There isn't any reason why you cant. The thing to remember is that it does not count as a magic weapon for any purposes unless it is also enchanted as a magic weapon. What "wonderous" actually means is that it doesn't work like any of the other item creation feats. As a wonderous item it does not and cannot provide an enhancement bonus to attack or damage, it does not get the extra hardness and hp that magic weapon does, does not overcome dr /magic and it can be sundered as a wonderous item rather than a weapon (this does actually make a difference). Anything in the shape of a staff, be it a wonderous item, large rod, magic staff, etc. can be used to attack just like a non-magical staff can.

One word. Harpoons.

It's an aquatic creature, maybe it wants to return the favor. That or Javlins it can throw as much as it wants until the party closes, then it whips out the melee weapons while the tentacles with the bows continue to rain death at a distance. Also if one tentacle is going to use a wand then several charges of a wand of Dispell Magic could be amazingly effective at the right times.

Also the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat can let him throw around some of his spells and beat on the party at the same time.

If you do give him bows as that final +1 CR give him 2 levels of Order of the Bow Initiate as an unassociated class level. That will let him fire bows while still engaging in melee combat.

Well the slow movement and fly is easy to deal with. He is intelligent isn't he? Just give him some gear.

The easiest way to do it is to dump a bunch of skill points into use magic device. Then you can give him a wand of expeditious retreat (+30 speed) or even better haste (+1 attack, +1 to hit, +1 AC & Ref, +30 speed). Even add in a few wands/staves of other spells. Bull's str, cat's grace and bear's endurance come to mind pretty quickly. If you want to be a real dick a wand of Sadism or Masochism (or both) gets sick.

Also not all of the tentacles need to be using the same weapons. Give several of them swords and the others bows with a high "mighty" rating. That lets him spread his attacks amongst the party so you the avoid the classic "1st round you are hit X times, you are dead. 2nd round you are hit Y times, you are dead. Etc." Focused fire is a good tactic but it can make the game a lot less fun for the people who get focused on. Also havign the bows lets him start nailing the casters who are sticking to the back lines.

For that matter he can get a little bit of an AC boost by dropping 1 tentalce attack in favor of using a shield. Or get really fun and drop 2-3 tentacle attacks so that he is using multiple tower shields at once, make it really complicated for the players to get to him.

One of my rules is that if a creature is intelligent and it has treasure then it will use that treasure. If my reading is correct this thng has a 14 intelligence. It isn't an idiot, remember that it can think, plan, train and use tactics. Gear can get so much fun with something like this.

Turin the Mad wrote:

elite for my pcs, right payback for them

Yeah, They probably have it coming. We certainly did.

Biggus wrote:

I know in 3.0 followers could only be Commoners, Experts or Warriors, but all it seems to say in 3.5 is that "they're generally low level NPCs".

Apparently, allowing PC classes has become the dominant way of interpreting it, although I always read the 3.5 quote "low level NPCs" to mean "characters with low levels (as shown in the table) and with NPC classes," much as in 3.0 (but expanded beyond Warriors, Experts, and Commoners to allow Adepts and/or Aristocrats as well, if that's your thing). Otherwise, the types of cheese that are attainable quickly snowball beyond the bounds of reason, or at least of good taste (see linked thread for examples).

Check a bit more carefully. I know that somewhere in the DMG it specifies that they are commoner/expert/nobel normally. It does say that they can have a PC class isntead, but at lower level than they would otherwise be.

The Black Bard wrote:

The only person who was even remotely able to do anything about it was the rogue who had sovereign glued himself to the dragon's head.

Ow, laughing hard at bold did not help headache but was worth it. I've actually been considering giving my next big dragon villain a whip of the correct size. This is based on this thread and a recent 3.5 game where an air battle was brought down by secession of trips and entangling effects.

I say give a dragon a whip and the ability to hover(item or feat) and he will own the sky.

For the record a 10 or 15 charge staff of evrard's black tentacles would be much more evil than a whip. Also there is a feat called "hover" I think it is MM, but it might be elsewhere.

I allow leader ship and find it useful, but I don't let a crapload of followers stick around. If someone just wants a cohort they take leadership and don't have to worry about it after that.

If someone wants to run an organization, have a castle, etc. then they MUST take leadership. I use their leadership score as a general indication of how strong the organization whould be. There is no hard and fast translation of just what a leadership score means in terms of the organization, but it gives me a nice guideline to look at.

If you have the Coalition war campaign book you chould try do do an all coalition team,that way your player will still have a nice variaty of caracter class to chose from but you also shield your self from alot a abuse and power gaming.

The problem there is the question of wether or not they've gone rogue already. Frankly you couldn't pay me enough money to play a character still loyal to the CS.

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

Turin the Mad wrote:

So, regarding ** spoiler omitted **

x

Cap'n... ** spoiler omitted **

Mwahahaha. Turin you have out done yourself, this will be perfect, with just one or two tweaks I can think of. Excellent.

I now want to stat-out a Dragon Knight Blackguard!!!

Actually, my PCs are due to take on a Red Dracolich, the Necromancer/Red Wizard/Archmage that made her so, and her surviving hatchlings (with apprentice dragonrider mages, of course). Maybe Papa Dragon can be a weapon-wielder!!!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

EDIT: Just remembered adding the Half-Fiend template makes you an outsider, and outsiders are proficient in Simple and Martial Weapons....

Just check up on the rules for "non-associated class levels" for monsters. As far as I'm concerned there is no associated class when it comes to dragons.

For true evil check out the Soul Eater from the Book of Vile Darkness. Not much can beat your player's reaction when the dragon deals negative levels with each of it's natural attacks.

There is also a dragon in my campaign who doesn't have a lair. Instead he has a triple sized portable hole in which he keeps his treasure. When he is tired he simply opens it up, sets up some magical and non-magical alarms and goes to sleep. When he wakes up he folds the portable hole back up and takes it with him.

A fun idea I may reuse, which is similar to one mentioned before. A dragon that thinks of himself as an "adventurer" and acts like one. He delves in dungeons for treasure and considers himself as much on the side of good as the PCs ever do. Only thing is he doesn't see the difference between the orc encampment, the vampire's lair, and the king's castle. (This can also be a fun way to bring up the morality question of exactly what the difference between the three is.)

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

The knight in my current game has never actually used his challenges. Eventually I did convince him to go for a prestige class, so it isn't a big deal. He still has fun and wants to play the character. He'd be great if only his dice liked him better.

Based on my extensive experience* with the knight class, the dice never like knights.

** spoiler omitted **

There's even a technical term at our game table. The knight's name was "Methos," so now when the dice rolls go really badly against someone at a critical moment, we say, "You really Methos'd that up!"

To further give credence to the theory, last Saturday the knight's player played in another 3.5 campaign. Apparently his low rolls in that were still double digits.

Also the second nastiest melee character I ever designed was a sorcerer, at least to start with.

ArchLich wrote:

My session last night made me think of this question:

Have you ever had a dragon use a weapon?

I don't think dragons are naturally proficient with weapons, but with the whopping BAB served up to most dragons, it stands to reason that they'd figure out a weapon like a spear (duh, pointy end this way?) and be able to use it.

Hey, the nonprofiency penalty is only -4, not that big a deal.

I ran a dragon once that had 2 levels of fighter so that he could wear full plate armor (magical of course) and use a balista as a crossbow (again magical). He even took the item creation feats so that he could make them himself.

Admittedly he was not nearly as fun or nasty as the Red Dragon who was Rogue/Arcane Trickster. In a game that went well into epic he was the only oponent who not only survived fighting with the party, but actually made a profit off them (he robbed them multiple times).

The problem arises because I have had other players who have wanted to play an arcane caster, but have changed their minds because he is playing a sorcerer. Thus, other players are not having as much fun because of his choice.

This sounds to me like the actual problem, not that he won't cast spells. I'd just tell the people who want to play an arcane cast to do so, regardless of what he is. As for him, as long as he is happy there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

The knight in my current game has never actually used his challenges. Eventually I did convince him to go for a prestige class, so it isn't a big deal. He still has fun and wants to play the character. He'd be great if only his dice liked him better.

"I jump" Character is standing at the top of a 300ft cliff with the fight about to occur at the bottom. The other characters are using fly to get down.

I'm no longer sure if I'm trying to live up to or live down this one.

That is true but if you look at from a players point of view it just seems so much more fun that way to see those "I told you so" moments that seem to pop up so often in our little group and everyone just having a big laugh at each others expense, its just so awsome.

True, true. If Droodad had actually been there I'm sure she would have seen through it pretty easily. Thankfully some of you are still gullible.

So, regarding ** spoiler omitted **

Turin the Mad wrote:

Silent Man wrote:

No one ever takes Silent Mans warnings seriously.

Of course it was too late (even after my sense motive check of 50+) by then.

That's what happens when no one can hear you. :)

On the upside, at least you're not in immediate danger of a horrible, agonizing death... well, that I know of.

True. Maybe I should start using flash cards.

It’s true that you jokingly called them succubi when you first saw them. It’s too bad you didn’t say it as something other than a joke, ask for a sense motive check or take any action that seemed to indicate you were suspicious of them. If you had you would have gotten a sense motive check much earlier. Also while your 50+ check was good enough to see through one of her lies, you didn’t do anything about it. You didn’t take any action or tell the other party members.

As I see it the two biggest problems the party has cropped up in this adventure yet again. You guys have very little coordination or communication. Those 4 free words per round may not be much, but they can matter.

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

I could use some help with something.

** spoiler omitted **

Crud, wish I'd seen this one a week ago ... d'oh!

Nice ... death by succubus ... man I hate them ... but at least you (usually) die with a smile on your dessicated husk of a face!

Never fear, that particular spoiler is at least 2 weeks away at this point, maybe slightly more. I may see if I can get one of the players to take detailed notes.

Well for all our bloodthirsty readers you will probably be happy to hear that we have had our first true fatality. There have been a number of what Turin used to refer to as technical fatalities. There are a number of house rules I have that make is unlikely for a player to die. If not for those house rules there would have been at least half a dozen fatalities before.

Well the party decided to proceed deeper into the darkness of the tunnel. They didn’t have to go far until they could see that the tunnel made about a half turn into a larger room. The entire party could hear there being who were around medium sized moving around in the next room. McStabby could also hear a much larger individual moving very, very quietly; too bad he didn’t mention that to anyone else. Wiz actually loaned McStabby his ring of invisibility so that he could scout and remain hidden. Of course since McStabby is a human he couldn’t scout very well. It’s also not like the party hadn’t announced its presence, considering how many light sources they were toting around in a completely dark cave.

Well those inside weren’t going to simply wait around for the party to get it’s act together. The party was a bit startled to see a soft light illuminate the cave and hear a weak voice call for them to enter. As they started to enter they could see an undead sitting on a stone throne. He looked like the body of an old man with 90% of the moisture sucked out of it and a dark purple energy that seemed to be holding him together. Wiz would later identify it as a Grimweird, a type of undead that summons other creatures to fight for it. Cowering on either side of his throne was a pair of extremely attractive human women. They were manacled, obviously in fear and showing bruises and other signs of abuse. There were also two large natural stone columns, one on either side of the room.

As several party members readied themselves to attack, Wiz stepped forward between his party and the undead to try and do some sort of negotiations. The party and the undead actually talked for a little while, with much maneuvering. This last right up until Wiz’s pet blink dog tried to D-door closer to the undead. Unfortunately he had enough spellcraft track where the blink dog would end up and a readied action to summon a creature when anyone tried to get that close. I was hoping some party member would charge in and run smack into it, but this worked too. So the blink dog tried to appear right where a Huge Fiendish Spider had. At this point all hell breaks loose.

As the fight gets underway it turns out that McStabby had snuck right up to a hidden opponent, a strange large humanoid undead with fingernails that can stretch up to 20ft to skewer people. It hit him a few times before stepping out to help guard the Grimweird. The two women prisoners ran from the Grimweird, which did take an AOO on one of them and missed with a nat 2 roll, and threw themselves on the party’s mercy.

The fight took on an unexpected path when Blingy tried to charge the large undead and accidentally tripped over the leg of one of the two slave women, later Tin Man would also trip over the leg of the other slave woman. Afterwards he discovered that his new holy shield could at times produce a Sunbeam effect that was quite devastating to the undead. As the party began to throw its firepower at the undead the slave woman threw herself at Wiz begging for him to save her and kissing him. The other slave woman tried to do the same with Droodad but slipped and fell on her face.

The Grimweird dropped somewhat quickly but the larger undead was made of much tougher stuff. After two rounds of being tangled up by the slave woman let out a scream of “Succubi!!!” and D-doored away from her. Droodad turned into a bear and took a bit at the head of the one clutching her skirt. The succubus realized the jig was up and turned back to normal. She sent a few threats towards the other slave woman and teleported over to where Wiz was to grapple with him again. She was able to kiss him again and her well chosen use of suggestion actually end up getting him to D-door the two of them away from the fight.

Unfortunately nobody in the party has put ranks into sense motive except for McStabby. So no one was able to tell for sure that the remaining slave girl was also a succubus. In fact it they bought it so thoroughly that Tin Man actually moved into position to protect her. Of course she threw her arms around him gratitude as soon as the large undead finally fell to the party’s attacks. Her kiss and quite whisper of “I’ll take you to paradise” quite overwhelmed poor Tin Man. Not surprising since the will DC against the suggestion was a 24.

So she teleports out and he was quite willing to go with her. I’m sure no one is surprised at this point that she was also a succubus. She of course sucked him dry and later deposited his corpse in his quarters in the capital of the Grand Marches. She gave the body back since the other succubus was hoping to later tempt Wiz to the dark side. This didn’t stop her from taking very single potion and wand he had, along with one or two small magical items. He only kept his money since it was stored in the party’s portable hole instead of on his body. Not surprising since I not only enforce encumbrance rules, but actually make players include the weight of their money in that. Gold gets heavy, and it’s really fun watching the players go “we’ve just found a ton of (gold/silver/copper/etc), now how are we going to carry all this?”

In the room the Grimweird and company had occupied the part eventually did find the items that Blingy had been seeking. These were quickly looted and the party returned to Laura and departed Perenland for the time being.

Well the party now has an interesting dilemma, and not one I’ve seen arguments about before in any group I can remember. The party was torn between raise dead and reincarnation for bringing Tin Man back to life. As Tin Man wasn’t alive to make is wishes known I asked the player to leave the room. Wiz was leading the argument for reincarnation while Blingy was pushing for raise dead. This was quite funny and eventually devolved into an argument over who was the leader of the group, which was downright hilarious. Silent Man and I had a hard time not falling out of our chairs laughing. While the issue of who the official leader was did not get resolved, the party did eventually go with raise dead.

From here they took two weeks off before they planned to head out on a mission for Kitty. Apparently the origin of Kitty’s temple lies far to the west. It is north of the desert they visited only a few months ago. He was smart enough to look for someone to scry the area first so they have some idea of just what they are walking in to.

Also re some of the earlier glitterboy comments. Yeah the suit looks impressive, that gun is pretty dangerous. But you are also a huge target and who do you think is going to take the focus of the bad guy's fire all the time? The glitterboy's power and danger are more than made up for his lack of stealth and ability to walk around with a sign saying "empty your clip."

Also remember that your armor is worth around 11 million. The party can frequently make more money per person by capping you in your sleep than by playing for months. In most of the groups I've played Rifts with no body wanted to play a glitterboy. Although that gun makes an awesome vehicle mounted weapon.

With the cost of items I was more thinking along the lines of armor repair and E-clips. According to the book it costs about 10 times as much to repair armor as buy it new. Also you'll find that some guns cost less than 1 or 2 e-clips to power them. I agree that there is a good reason that most vehicles, guns, power armor, etc. cost so much.

If all you are expecting is combat after combat, then Rifts is only a good system for powergaming in a way other systems can barely comprehend. If however you want some good RP and has a group that can handle the characters not all being equally combat capable, then it can be awesome.

It has some of the best flavor and ideas of any post-apocalyptic setting I've seen. Lots of unique ideas and plenty of cool things for players to do and be.

Problems with Rifts/Palladium:

1) Very unblanced classes.
2) Somewhat clunky combat until you learn it.
3) Not very econimically realistic prices on a number of items.

Advantages of Rifts/Palladium:

1) Some of the best and most interesting psionics of any system.
2) One of the most interesting and flavorful martial arts systems.
3) There is ALWAYS something more dangerous out there.
4) Some of the best fluff and setting every printed.

I have to say that the Rifts groups I've played with have universally put more effort into not getting into combat than any group or system I've ever played in.

If you've never run it before, I recommend getting several of the books and reading carefully. Especially the fluff. In fact the setting has a good way to introduce new players to it. You have them make something from a setting they are familiar with using the rules of Rifts or one of the other palladium settings. Then their character shows up in Rifts by coming through a Rift. Their lack of knowledge about the setting is actually a held to RPing their character rather than a detriment.

If all you guys do is fight, after fight, after fight, then be careful with Rifts. You can easily end up with characters who are very out of balance combat wise. Although Rifts combat can be a lot of fun.

You will find a lot of people who hate Rifts for one reason or another. Of course you can say the same about every single game out there. If you waited for a system that no one had a single bad thing to say about it, you'd never play. I've tried to give you a quick over view of the good and the bad. If you've got any specific questions just post them on this thread, I'll keep an eye out.

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

hogarth wrote:

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

Not all house rules screw people. That's a case of bad GMs, not a problem with the concept of house rules.

I don't mind house rules. But what I don't like is the DM stopping the game in the middle and making up a house rule on the spur of the moment.

In my opinion, the time to set down rules is at the beginning of the campaign (much preferred!) or at least at the beginning or the end of a session.

HELL YES!!!! I despise that soooo much. Especially since 99% of the time its because the GM wants a new way to screw the PCs. The only thing that pisses me off as much I think is when the GM makes up house rules but won't let the PCs know what they are. I had a GM who had been running for years and years, but I could never get a list of house rules from him. I had to find out the hard way, generally when I wanted to do something he didn't want me doing.

Sounds familiar there Cap'n ... anyone we both knew ?

Yes. An awesome GM in almost all other respects. If you can't figure it out for yourself just remember "Are you my new daddy?"

My attitude was "Why not? The King has a pretty sweet benefits package, and if I get tired of it, I can always push her out the window."

DM: "But that doesn't serve the gods of chaos and evil!"

Me: "So? If they want me to ravage and sacrifice her, they need to outbid the king."

An utter sociopath is in many ways more frightening than yet another Toady of the Dark Gods.

That's hilarious. My props to you for hilarious and awesome RP moment. Did he let you get away with it? (He damn well should have with that answer.)

This is one of the reasons why I dislike D&D alignment. I'd rather someone play their character than play their alignment. Thats why unless I have a good reason to do otherwise all characters in my campaign start out as NN. Their alignment will change as their actions dictate. That way their alignment is a reflection of their actions rather than the other way around.

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

Not all house rules screw people. That's a case of bad GMs, not a problem with the concept of house rules.

I don't mind house rules. But what I don't like is the DM stopping the game in the middle and making up a house rule on the spur of the moment.

In my opinion, the time to set down rules is at the beginning of the campaign (much preferred!) or at least at the beginning or the end of a session.

HELL YES!!!! I despise that soooo much. Especially since 99% of the time its because the GM wants a new way to screw the PCs. The only thing that pisses me off as much I think is when the GM makes up house rules but won't let the PCs know what they are. I had a GM who had been running for years and years, but I could never get a list of house rules from him. I had to find out the hard way, generally when I wanted to do something he didn't want me doing.

Cap'n Jose Monkamuck wrote:

Not all house rules screw people. That's a case of bad GMs, not a problem with the concept of house rules.

That's a mighty sharp avatar you have there, Cap'n. ;-)

That it is, that it is.

the OP is one example On why I Hate house rules.

Every house rule I have ever seen was to Gimp,reduce,or lower an ability.. I never seen an house rule to make the game go smoothly...

As an example I had a DM once Who Hated that my rogue was always able to get sneak attack of... so he made it I could no longer use flanking to get sneak attack off... then he hated how I always went first and changed the flat footed rules in the beginning of combat so I could not get sneak attack off.. He basically only allowed me to sneak attack if something was totally immobile... I left that game.

For the record, my current house rules include. +2 skill points per level, listen and spot are class skills for all classes. Feats every odd level instead of every 3rd. Item creations feats have been mostly removed, instead you only need the minimum caster level to qualify for the feat. It is possible to pay people to train you for extra feats. Each person gets 1 benny per game session they show up for, bennies can be spent to reroll 1 die or heal 1d6 hp immediately. The healing actually adds a lot of flavor as a character can get dropped to negative only to rally themselves a few rounds later and stand up to fight again.

Not all house rules screw people. That's a case of bad GMs, not a problem with the concept of house rules.

Interestingly enough I had a similar problem crop up in my game. One of my players, known as Wiz in my campaign journal, made a similar character. The major difference here was that it wasn't his character who was doing the tripping. It was his cohort/familiar Blinkdog that was doing it. Now the Blinkdog had a lot of advantages that a player wouldn't (+7 strength mod, size large, ability to teleport to the enemy every time).

When he started doing it I thought back to this thread. There was a post that paizo ate for this thread in which I said that I wouldn't have had a problem with your character. I still hold by that. I did have a problem with a minion who could teleport in and trip with a +15 bonus every round. The player has agreed to drop the tripping thankfully. I was not intending for a cohort to be that game changing, and I can see how as a DM it will get annoying quick.

I do recommend that you make your characters a bit less of a one trick pony. If it is an especially powerful trick than the GM has two choices. Make the battle much easier than intended by letting the trick work, or making your character irrelevent for the fight by putting in things that keep your trick from working 90% of the time.

If you are in any room or cavern where the party can't see all of it, or if it has lots of hiding places then you can do LOTs of neat things with ghost sound. Hopefully some of your more trigger happy spell casters won't use up too many of their spells.

We used to have a gnome who made salads with "mushrooms". The Paladin developed quite a taste for them before she realised what they did (she made the first several fort saves).

The way I usually run something like this is to make the players do the work. Basically just have a tentative background in mind. As they research it drop hints as to what it is. Eventually they'll come usually come up with some sort of idea on how to destroy it. If it's a good idea take that as your starting point and complicate the process a bit so that they have to work for it. I find that players frequently enjoy ideas they've come up with themselves than having just a single preplanned method.