Calliope785's page

*laughter* I'm a huge fan of blights, and the design process was exactly what I was asking for. Thanks!

Regarding manasaputras-speaking as a fan of corrupting things: is there such a thing as a fallen manasaputra?

What role did you design blights to fulfill?

Are blights (the ooze from bestiary 6, that is) capable of reproduction, and/or could malign magic make more of them? Or were they all spawned by the serpentfolk ages ago, and are now slowly going extinct?

Have a happy holiday season, James!

And in the spirit of asking questions: what's the primary difference between Abyssal gigas and demodands? Have any other titan species besides the thanatotic created races like the demodands?

Now I can't get the idea of velstracs that are mollusks out of my head...I'm not sure if it's cute or horrifying.

The Hellraiser thing makes so much sense (I've seen the first movie and read "The Hellbound Heart")-I knew they were associated and am now headbanging over not realizing how that would play into velstrac morality lol.

Is Hellraiser where you got the idea to name "the fiend book" *The Book of the Damned*?

And I'm confident I know the answer to this because Paizo is awesome, but one assumes that celestials (Vildeis springs to mind as a particular favorite?) would be perfectly happy with good-aligned BDSM followers who follow the mantra of "safe, sane, consensual", and velstrac-affiliated BDSM is just, well, evil?

What would you say makes kytons *lawful* fiends, as opposed to any other form of sadistic evil? I get that the BDSM overtones (goodness, they and Zon-Kuthon really have a fondness for black leather...) and the fact that chain devils in D&D are LE both make it a good fit aesthetically and continuity-wise, just curious if there were other reasons.

What's your favorite "made for Pathfinder" fiendish race? I know qlippoth (obyriths), demodands, demons, and devils are all somewhat in D&D (as fiends, that is, I know oni, kytons, and rakshasa exist but aren't really as expanded as in Pathfinder), but do you have a favorite out of the other fiends?

Have a hug, James!

I also wanted to agree with what was expressed above-the things you've written have been incredibly inspirational for me as a DM, player, you name it. The quality is out of this world.

(and I love the demons)

Speaking of demons...

Was Ashamintallu (of Lady's Light fame) the daughter of Ayandamahla and Sorshen? Or did she have a different parent?

And if she's not Sorshen's kid, does Sorshen have any half-fiend offspring, period?

What're your personal thoughts on the elemental (not including the positive and negative energy) planes, James? I've struggled in the past to make them less niche (here's where all the genies go!). I'm curious if you thought they added a unique flavor, and what that might be given your decades of experience.

Oh I love folk horror!

I've often had this problem where I'm not quite sure where paganism ends and diabolism (or even gnosticism or New Age stuff) begins...which is, of course, entirely the point.

Would you say something like the Wicker Man cultists would fit best as followers of one of the Eldest (the obvious answer), something fiendish (less obvious but more malevolent), or Ymeri or some other elemental power (rather esoteric)?

Do you have a favorite (non Nocticula lol) villain from Wrath of the Righteous? (I guess either the game or the AP)

Oh, sorry about that, James! Will do.

To keep the disappointment of no questions out of *this* post...

About the iathavos qlippoth. What makes it qualitatively different from balors, pit fiends, or asurendra asuras, all CR 20 fiends, in being a unique example of its kind? Given there are qlippoth lords more powerful than the iathavos, I'm curious what makes the iathavos stand out as "a monster so abhorrent that even the Abyss cannot bear to allow more than one to exist at any one time."

Calliope785 wrote:

The 2e book describing summoning PCs is the AD&D 2e player's handbook.

"In rare cases, adventurers have been known to disappear, summoned by powerful spellcasters using this spell. Those summoned recall all the details of their trip."

Aenigma wrote:

What I asked was "Can you tell me the names of the 2nd edition D&D books talked about the nature of summoning spells?" since you said some late 2nd edition D&D books talked about it. Can you tell me? I wish to read how the summoning was described back in the day.

In order to keep this thread from being tougher to navigate and keep up on than it already is, please use PMs to reply to questions like this... or at least "justify" your post with a new question for me so that I don't see a new post, get all excited to answer something, but then feel all dejected and sad when I get here and I have nothing to do. Thanks! :)

The 2e book describing summoning PCs is the AD&D 2e player's handbook.

"In rare cases, adventurers have been known to disappear, summoned by powerful spellcasters using this spell. Those summoned recall all the details of their trip."

What I asked was "Can you tell me the names of the 2nd edition D&D books talked about the nature of summoning spells?" since you said some late 2nd edition D&D books talked about it. Can you tell me? I wish to read how the summoning was described back in the day.

Wow. I'm so happy you thought of that and acted on it.

*wanders off once again vindicated in liking Pathfinder*

Aenigma wrote:

Then why does Pathfinder RPG named the spells like Summon Monster were names as such? According to the dictionary, "summon" means to call people together, to ask someone to come. If summoning spells are actually temporal creation instead of summoning, shouldn't these spells have been named as Temporal Monster Creation or something like that?

The main reason is because of legacy—that's what those spells were named in D&D, and when we created Pathfinder, changing the name of spells was something we were nervous about because we weren't sure if our readers wanted to come along with us to the new game.

But also, 20–30 years ago, a lot of the designers of the games seemed less concerned with the implications of summoning a creature in that way, so there was NO lore really talking about how the spells worked or impacted things, with one exception—some late 2nd edition D&D books talked about it, and about how creatures could be snatched out of their lives by these spells. And it could even happen to adventurers who were on other planes. It didn't really explore or even acknowledge the cruelty of this act, and kind of presented it instead as a potential trap for PCs and didn't care how it impacted anything else.

That always bothered me though, and so in my games I've always used the rule that a summons summons a new creature from the fundamentals of reality and possibility—sort of manifesting a temporary creature from magic to do the spellcaster's bidding and then vanishing later. That also helped to deal with the idea of folks using summoned creatures as "banks" or by summoning creatures who come with powerful weapons just to take those weapons and so on.

But in Pathfinder, there was no room for lore like that in the rules, and no method by which we could really put that lore out there in a way that as many players would even ever see it since non-Rulebooks sold less and so many GMs had (and still have) overly protective control over lore "secrets."

It wasn't until 2nd...

Oh, got it. That makes it a lot more ethical.

Sounds fair!

I guess this has been bugging me for a bit, and I was curious if you had thoughts.

Summoning spells seem to have some rather unfortunate implications. Namely, you're taking a sentient creature from its homeland and enslaving it to suffer (though not die) in your service for a few minutes (yes, it's small, but getting into fights you don't want to isn't fun).

I'm aware that outsiders aren't "people", but obviously they still feel pain, loss, and fear.

So is summoning unwilling creatures, especially non-evil ones, to fight on your behalf an evil act? Or is this one of those "don't think too much about it, you'll ruin everyone's fun" sorts of tropes of the genre?

Gotcha. More of a "we needed a fire demon lord" sort of character than something the fine folks at Paizo have really fleshed out, then?

More demon questions!

I know Flauros and Ymeri have a...tempestuous relationship. Which one of them ultimately wields more power? And are there any demigods, in the abyss or not, allied with Flauros?

Since demon lords and other outsider demigods exist on other planets, how much travel to other material planes happens among the high-powered folks of Golarion? I know Baba Yaga did a stint on Earth in Reign of Winter-should I be worried about an invasion by Tar-Baphon?

Given that Golarion (and presumably other campaign settings like it?) has or at least in 1e *had* multiple creatures of very high level, such as Areelu Vorlesh (RIP, level 27), Sorshen (level 27), Tar Baphon (level 26), Alaznist (level 24 or higher depending on when in Return of the Runelords we're talking about), Arazni (level 26 before she ascended to full godhood), Xanderghul (level 28, I believe you said at one point), Old Mage Jatembe (level 24), at least a few great wyrm dragons (level 22), five or more kaiju (ranging from level 26 to level 30), and so on...that's of course ignoring Treerazer (level 25) and the spawn of Rovagug and other "otherworldly" creatures wandering around the setting.

Well, that's roughly the same number of level 26+ beings (with power equal to demigods) as the sum total of Hell itself. Which raises the question: from the perspective of someone like Deskari, how would you even begin to conquer a planet like this, where you have at least a dozen beings roughly equal to you in power, even with the help of maybe one or two other demon lords? I'm just trying to understand why this is a more tempting target than going 1 v. 1 with another demon lord or other archfiend, as opposed to 1 v. 12. The power density just seems enormous compared to the Abyss, where a single planet-sized layer would only have *one* level 26+ creature rather than hordes of them.

Hi James,

Do fiends of fey origin exist? That is, fiends that formed from quintessence that was originally part of a fey? If so, how did they come about?

Since I know you wrote the Dragon Magazine Demonomicon article on Graz'zt, who in the PF Abyss (or other evil planes) would you say is most similar to him? I'm curious because I haven't seen any really obvious analogues.

Is it possible for outsiders to "fall" to law or chaos, like angels can fall to evil or demons can rise to good (or neutrality, in the case of Nocticula)? If so, are there examples of that/does it happen at roughly the same rate as fallen angels or risen demons?

Actually. On Golarion, do people call 1st level spells (or spell 1s, in 2nd edition) by those names?

Sure, yup. Thanks!

On that note...are "good", "evil", "law", and "chaos" in-universe referred to as such? That is, when someone casts *detect alignment* on an chaotic evil warlord, can they (quite rightly) claim that he's chaotic evil, and condemn him as such (or "tainted" or what have you) and get him driven out of town?

For that matter, given the number of NPC leaders in Golarion of 6th level or higher (many of them!) and the political power real life religions have wielded WITHOUT the ability to perform on-demand feats of magic to their followers or being provably, irrefutably, and scientifically true, is an empirically determined arbiter of cosmic alignment a major factor in elections and politics? Is religion a bigger deal on Golarion than it would have been in medieval europe?

Very nice. So it wouldn't be inconsistent with the cosmology for an evil-aligned individual to *be* evil for the sake of their own, ah, "salvation"? Obviously not every demon has a good time, but I doubt mortals know that...

Do fiends have "job satisfaction"? That is, does Pazuzu enjoy corrupting people, and does Dispater like ruling his iron city?

And if so, are the evil-aligned planes actually paradises for their inhabitants, or at least the upper echelon of their inhabitants?

Thanks, that's good to know!

For sure.

I guess I should ask-gender identity among succubi? I assume they can be born from people of all genders? Do they all default to the feminine upon transformation, though? Because I can see a somewhat-interesting character based on the queerness of succubi via shapechanging.

So *are* there succubi that specialize in other forms of temptation that have nothing to do with sex/asexual succubi? Can succubi have a sexual orientation other than "pansexual nymphomaniac"? Like something devoted to intellectual seduction or courtly love or a myriad other ways of corrupting people via romance that don't have to involve trigger warnings?

(I guess I should add that I didn't expect succubi to be sex-positive, just that Demons Revisited was trying to be when it spelled out that being promiscuous isn't enough to become a succubus, you have to do destructive things with desire)

Hi James!

So, as per usual, I have planar/demonic questions. As a background, I was reading through Demons Revisited, and came across the succubus entry. In particular, I'm looking to write a succubus' backstory...but was curious what other "sins of lust" in life might give rise to a succubus OTHER than sexual assault/rape/intimate partner abuse (in the interest of not going there). And obviously I'd like to be sex-positive, as the book is very clear that being promiscuous isn't a sin.

So what sorts of sins can you commit in life to turn you into a succubus after death that DON'T involve sexual abuse, gaslighting, harassment, fuzzy consent, or domestic violence? Would a man who neglected his husband and his children just so he could have flings qualify, for instance?

Hmm, thanks!

Would you say the alignment distribution of the universe (especially Golarion) is uniform? Or is it tilted towards certain alignments? I hear a lot about straight Neutral being the most common alignment, but would you say that Lawful Good is more common than Neutral Evil? Lawful Neutral over Chaotic Evil? Chaotic Evil over Chaotic Good?

Ah, gotcha. Thanks, I really appreciate the information about the personalities of such iconic villains! And I definitely see the thorny implications...

That being said-philosophically, is it possible for a chaotic evil person to truly, selflessly love someone else, and be chaotic evil because of that, perhaps to protect and support their beloved regardless of any laws or morality? Or would you classify love as an emotion separate from alignment?

Hi James,

When it's said that Sorshen "seduced and betrayed all of her fellow runelords", is that LITERALLY all of them, throughout all of Thassilon's history? Or just the final ones? Or just at least one of each school/sin?

I'm asking because I'm rather interested in what Alaznist's sexual/romantic orientation was, and if she ever had any partners, affairs, or romantic friendships. So I was curious to know if she and Sorshen ever had any such attachments.

That makes sense. Thanks!

Also, regarding demigods (especially of the fiendish variety)-if they can walk the Material Plane without help (plane shift is hardly rare, after all!), how do you see "stop the ritual to summon the demon lord" type plotlines playing out, meta-wise?

Since Pazuzu and his ilk don't NEED these cultists to teleport to Golarion, what are some good in-setting reasons for the stakes to be so high in such a ritual (potentially "final battle of the campaign" high)? I ask because I'm currently writing just such an adventure for my campaign, and was stumbling a little over the reason for such a classic plotline to even happen in the face of plane shift being so low-level compared to the powers wielded by level 27 demigods and their greatest cultists (who would certainly be higher level than wizard 13!)

That's very true, yeah.

Given that it disrupts the Cycle of Souls, what would a Pharasmin think of petrification? Do clerics of Pharasma encourage their allies to avoid it, just like they might warn against necromancy? Or at least smash the statues afterwards to allow souls to move on?

(for some reason I just have the hilarious mental image of a group of zealous Pharasmins called the "stonebreakers" who go around killing medusas and freeing/shattering their petrified victims)

Hi James,

So I just had a thought about the Cycle of Souls. Namely, if creating undead is destructive (grand-scale) to the multiverse, aren't other forms of locking souls out of the cycle just as terrible? Is a wizard who turns an enemy to stone causing the same damage by preventing people from dying and preventing their souls' quintessence from leaving the stone?

In fact, couldn't it be argued turning someone to stone is *worse*, since at least liches and zombies are wandering around and can be destroyed? Most undead aren't literally old as rocks, while petrified statues could be buried for eons (or stashed in a demiplane) without suffering any real harm, the soul trapped all the while, right?

I admit I could completely have the wrong end of the stick here, just curious as to your thoughts!

I'm curious to know about the design process behind 1e's "abyssal resurrection" and similar abilities of demigods. Speaking as a DM, I often find myself wanting something like that, so that villains can actually be recurring. At the same time, though, I know it can be incredibly frustrating for a table when something you put in effort to kill just pops back (even if PCs do the same thing all the time). Since I know you helped work on many such high level statblocks, what do you see as the advantages of that sort of ability? Or the ability of monsters to be resurrected in general?

Wow, it's been longer than I thought-just caught up with everyone else's comments!

That being said, going off the "Deskari fighting Terendelev" question-how easily *can* demon lords and other demigods breach the Material Plane? If it's only a *plane shift* spell away, is the main reason they don't do it mainly due to "I don't want to get stabbed by adventurers"? Or is it not that easy to get here?

Yeah, that's somewhat what I was thinking, too. Cool, and thanks!

Another question on the cosmology (hopefully I'm not asking inane things or asking too many questions, I just really love the Pathfinder model of the planes and am curious about it...) if the Inner Planes are being eroded just like the Outer...do they "refuel" like the Outer Planes do, receiving fresh quintessence from mortal souls? Or how is it that they avoid dissolving into the Maelstrom, if they're disconnected from the cycle of souls and aren't receiving fresh quintessence? Especially something like the Elemental Plane of Water, which unlike the energy planes doesn't seem to have a connection to life and (un)death.

Ah, sure. And leaving it vague is always fun...

Though, out of curiosity, what's your take on those undiscovered and unknown realms, from an out of game perspective? If there's something "worse" or spookier than the Plane of Shadow, Abaddon, or the Negative Energy Plane, does that diminish the horror of the daemons, the sakhils, and their ilk, and make them seem, well, if not allies or bedfellows, then at least in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to the nightmarish horrors from beyond the beyond?

Or is there a better way of looking at it?

That makes a lot of sense, yeah.

Okay, so I have to ask. I know it's not really revealed what's "beyond the beyond," but when an evil spellcaster or fiend undertakes the journey to whatever lies behind reality and becomes a devourer, where do they go? "Undead revisited" discusses evil wizards going "into the hinterlands of the cosmos" but I'm not exactly sure what that means? Diving deep into the Abyss and thereby going outside the Outer Sphere? "Undead revisited" seems to make it very clear that it's NOT going into the depths of the Dark Tapestry, so that was my guess.

Essentially, what sort of studies would an evil wizard want to undertake if they were looking for that kind of lore or to transform themselves into a devourer? Demonology? Alienism? Studying the Negative Energy Plane?

Oh wow, that makes undeath an existential threat...just wow! That's actually quite epic. And really does put in perspective why good-aligned undeath is weird. It's very tragedy of the commons!

So...how does this affect the Inner Planes? Are they being eroded by the Maelstrom? Would, say, the Negative Energy Plane (source of undead animation energy, after all) survive total entropic collapse? How about the Positive? Not that there's actually an experimentally determined answer, but what do the sages think?

Oh boy! I love this type of worldbuilding discussion!

So how does undeath "harm the environment" in the extended metaphor? For instance, I know the typical alignments of most undead are some shade of evil-but do good-aligned undead have a right to exist (in the eyes of other good-aligned creatures / clerics of Pharasma)? Or are they essentially toxic waste to the natural cycle, and purges of even good-aligned ghosts and liches and the like are usually justified?

And if you're a lich living in, say, the Maelstrom, do you still harm the environment/the cosmos?

That makes sense, sure. Wasn't sure what the consequences would be for such an action since, as you say, this isn't D&D (and that's a good thing, I never got much out of that war...).

Thanks!

Ah, well, I am the GM lol.

That was a "the party is probably going here, and I'm looking to plan out what they might find and how to RP creatures" question, but I obviously did not phrase it well.

Is there anything to prevent the demon or devil from attacking each other? For instance, if they both see an especially juicy soul coming that both would like to tempt away from Abaddon, is it possible they get into a fight before it arrives to guarantee that only one of them is available to try to woo said soul? And does that happen on a regular basis?

Oh, I guess what I was asking was, if you're a neutral evil soul that travels to the Boneyard and are judged, you meet the demon and the devil that are stationed at the Devouring Court, authorized by Pharasma to persuade souls sent to Abaddon to choose Hell or the Abyss instead. So who is that demon? A demon lord? One of Lamashtu's balor generals? A succubus bard loyal to Pazuzu specialized in negotiations with neutral evil souls? Or just someone with no particular skill in persuasion that Nurgal wants to get out of his hair, so he ships them off to the Boneyard for this thankless job?

Your answer about "sometimes it's the plane itself" made it sound like the Abyss is sentient, and literally manifests a piece of itself to talk you into going there, which sounded interesting-but I think I misunderstood what you were saying.

(The reason I'm asking is because my PCs may soon be visiting the Devouring Court to look for a recently-dead soul, and I'm looking to flesh out the background and character of the demon and/or devil for RP purposes)

Ooooh. Like, you literally get to commune with the essence of CE?

Makes sense!

As a followup, who appoints the demon and devil to the position of "persuader of the neutral evil damned"? And what sort of demon/devil is there? Is this a prestigious position that advanced succubi are competing for? Or just the sort of thing an archdevil delegates to his least favorite drudge of the month?