Caemar's page

I always interpreted that rule to refer to spells that continue to "independently" do stuff to the target, like acid arrow or (as you mention) wall of fire.

But if you interpret it to mean all effects of a single spell, then that means Calcific Touch and Frostbite are exactly equal in that regard - a failed SR check means a wasted cast, and a successful one that you don't have to roll again for subsequent attacks. (Incidentally, I figure this means it would be better to forgo the shocking grasp in the above example, and instead milking a successful Frostbite cast for the maximum number of attacks - assuming the target is still alive, which seems doubtful anyway)

Personally, I feel that's a tad too much randomness. Whether as DM or as PC, I dislike having the outcome of a fight routinely depend on 1-2 rolls (See also: initiative... :/).

Also, Frostbite would roll the resistance for each individual touch attack (4 in the first round, 3 in the second). More rolls means you end up closer to your expected damage value - hence, less all or nothing then attempting to 2-shot with calcific touch.

And I wouldn't learn all the elemental metamagic feats. At that level, a complete set of lesser metamagic rods for all elements costs a pittance.

Just flat out assuming you have a dedicated support-sorc/wiz seems like a bit of a stretch. But if you do, they would need to have the standard action available, and a means to deliver the spell without getting squished. Which actually makes me wonder: How does Calcific Touch interact with familiars? Can they multi-touch with it? If they can, maybe your build should make room for the Familiar arcana?

Is it really worth it though, i.e. will it kill the Wyrm faster then "the old fashioned way? The thing about ability damage is that it's probably not cumulative with the damage the rest of the party is doing, or indeed your own regular attacks.

An empowered Frostbite targeting a dragons elemental weakness via Elemental Spell will dish out ~160 damage in the first round. The second round brings another ~140 Frostbite damage, and is then capped of by an ~80 damage intensified, empowered, elementally targeted shocking grasp.

All targeting touch AC, and all stacking with your party's damage in case spell resistance deflects some of your attacks.

Speaking of spell resistance, it's also much less all-or-nothing in that regard. If the Calcific Touch attacks get resisted twice in a row, you are almost certainly screwed.

I was really asking anyone with a considered opinion, so all the above points are much appreciated!

Hope this isn't too silly a question, but... relative to the ratings of all the archetypes, how would you rate the vanilla Magus? And would you rate Str/Dex/Int builds differently?

Caemar wrote:

(Mostly) different topic: For a strength magus, what do you think of replacing a Bane Baldric with a Sash of the War Champion once the Bane Arcana comes online, to be combined with mithral plate armor for full movement speed?

Is the extra movement speed still worth the item slot and material commitment at that level?

A vanilla magus doesn't get armor training or bravery; a sash of the war champion does nothing for them. I'm pretty sure you need to have a fighter level for the respective class features to increase it via 'The wearer treats his fighter level as 4 higher than normal for...'. A myrmidiarch has no use for a sash of the war champion once they have bane blade - their armor training stops improving past level 14 and bane arrives at 15 minimum. We don't talk about the armored battlemage.

Actually, after reading up on it, the interpretation of the wording of SotWC seems to be controversial. So unless there's a FAQ I missed, I guess this comes down to GM ruling.

If, for the sake of argument, you assume that you can use the SotWC as a Magus... should you?

Caemar wrote:

MrCharisma wrote:

Huh, I never noticed the 1/round clause in that spell.

I guess for most casters it doesn't make a difference, but for Magi it does.

If you compare it to spells like Produce Flame and Elemental Touch, those spells have a range of "personal" and the target is "you", making them incompatible with Spellstrike.

Makes me wonder if this is simply an oversight in the templating of Calcific Touch; I can think of no other spell with range "touch" that doesn't also have a duration of "instantaneous".

There's ghoul touch and a few others. And non-attack touch spells like resist energy. PF1 is a creaking edifice with inconsistencies like this all over.

Actually, I think I figured out how this works and have edited my post accordingly.

In the case of ghoul touch, I guess it would be more consistent if the duration was "instantaneous", and the 1d6+2 rounds duration of the paralyze effect was given in the description, like e.g. Frigid Touch, but I guess the intention is that the effect can be dispelled.

Huh, I never noticed the 1/round clause in that spell.

I guess for most casters it doesn't make a difference, but for Magi it does.

If you compare it to spells like Produce Flame and Elemental Touch, those spells have a range of "personal" and the target is "you", making them incompatible with Spellstrike.

Compare this to spells like Frostbite with range "touch", which target "creatures touched" and have duration "instantaneous".

Since Calcific touch is templated works like buff spells that confer a touch ability (like e.g. Elemental Touc), I think what the "touch" actually means is that you can also buff someone else.

Meaning that while the range is technically compatible with spellstrike, all that means is that you can buff your allies by hitting them with your weapon.

Not sure they'll appreciate it, but hey, if they're into it, who am I to judge. :P

(Mostly) different topic: For a strength magus, what do you think of replacing a Bane Baldric with a Sash of the War Champion once the Bane Arcana comes online, to be combined with mithral plate armor for full movement speed?

Is the extra movement speed still worth the item slot and material commitment at that level?

Bane Baldrics aren't restricted to 1-handed weapons. Did you mean a Swordmaster's Flair?

Um, according to the SRD, it is?

This ornate sash of embroidered velvet stretches across the chest from shoulder to waist.

If the wearer is an inquisitor, she is treated as five levels higher when using her bane and greater bane abilities . If the wearer is not an inquisitor, she gains the bane ability of a 5th-level inquisitor, but must first attune a light or one-handed melee weapon to the baldric by hanging it from the cloth for 24 hours, and can only use the bane ability with the attuned weapon. Attuning a new weapon to the baldric ends the attunement for the previous weapon.

(source: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/a-b/baldric-bane/)

Name Violation wrote:

using it in one hand does not change the CATAGORY of the weapon. it is still categorized as a 2 handed weapon, even though it can be used in 1 hand.

(...)
spell combat only works with actual light or 1 handed weapons, not 2 handed weapons, even if those 2 handed weapons are weilded in 1 hand

This is not how the rules in general are. The lance FAQ predates two other FAQs that set the general rules since then, and thus nowadays creates an exception. This FAQ says "If you're wielding it in one hand (even if it is normally a two-handed weapon), treat it as a one-handed weapon for the purpose of how much Strength to apply, the Power Attack damage bonus, and so on.", and the Bastard Sword FAQ even mor explicitly says "For class abilities, feats, and other rule elements that vary based on or specifically depend on wielding a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, the bastard sword counts as however many hands you are using to wield it."

Although to be precise, the lance FAQ only talks about Power Attack. Correcting what I said last post, I think RAW is that the lance (while mounted) does indeed work with Spell Combat!

To be honest, I think the lance FAQ shuld be completely disregarded even for strict RAW as it's fully overruled by a newer FAQ.

Huh. We had a similar discussion the other day; in that case it was about which weapons could be used with a Bane Baldric.

Am I reading this correctly in that you can activate the Baldric with e.g. a Bastard Sword as long as you wield it in one hand, but the activation is cancelled the second you use it in 2 hands, and will need to be reactivated once you 1hand the sword again?

Is the yellow rating for Aroden's Spellsword based on the assumption that you DON'T have other means of using rods?

If yes, why so low? Is being able to use rods just not worth the spell slot and standard action?

What's the preferred method of enabling rods anyway, assuming you're not a Tiefling?

Speaking of Bane Blade and the Magus' strained Swift Action budget: The more I think about it, the more I feel that whether it's blue or green, Bane Blade and Quickened Magic should be rated equally.

Because while Quicken is undeniably powerful and, even more importantly, extremely versatile, it is not only just 1/day but also has the opportunity cost of a host of other things you could have done with that Swift.
Bane Blade otoh will be up almost all combats, with no additional actions required whatsoever (since you're almost certainly going to put up your enchants anyway). The downside obviously being that damage is all you'll ever get out of it. But it IS a massive amount of damage though, especially over multiple combats...

The corset is mainly for getting out of grapples and spells like Web, which are a fairly common and, depending on build, debilitating.

Different subject: Any reason the Locate Weakness spell isn't discussed in the guide? Seems like a fairly obvious pick for a Shocking Grasp/crit-fishing build; and if it's a trap, a warning would be all the more important.

The Corset of Delicate Moves can also be good, for when you really need to use your arcane pool and another swift action in the same round.

I dunno, I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where I wanted to give up Spell Combat while in melee range, or my move action when not.

Then again, I'm running a Strength/Shocking Grasp build (creative, I know), so I pretty much always want to be in their face. Maybe on an Int build this would come up more?

The guide lists Corset of the Vishkanya and Alabaster Trapping, both of which are pretty good.

For some reason, the item list I was using hat the trappings in the wrong slot category. My bad on the corset, though.

Considering these are both relatively cheap anti-grapple items, is there nothing higher end you feel is worth considering once things like Freedom of Movement become available?

The Xorn Robe for example has a massive bonus to a very important skill and a handy special ability that can't be replicated from our spell list (without spell blending).

Fourth, the Bane and (let's go with) Holy bonuses both "cost" part of your Enhancement bonus.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that part. That obviously changes the math.

That said, the reason I missed that is that the Devoted Blade and Bane Blade are actually phrased differently in that regard: Devoted Blade specifically says it adds (say) Holy to your options. Bane Blade on the other hand just says you can spend 1 pool point to add Bane.

I would interpret that to mean that unlinke Holy, Bane gets added on top of your regular "enhancement capacity" (the +10 limit allowing). Am I wrong?

2 brief questions: Why does the guide say that Devoted Blade is redundant with Bane Blade? There doesn't seem to be anything stopping you from using both to e.g. make a Holy Outsider Bane weapon; am I missing a stacking rule here or something?

Also, I notice the guide doesn't seem to have any suggestions for body slot items. Is that because you don't feel there aren't any that are worth their cost?

Well, "consult your DM on..." is a fairly common disclaimer in this type of guide - and valuable information in and of itself.

As for Monstrous Physique, Alter Self becomes available 3 levels earlier, so that's a pretty significant "use it, then dump it" window at least. Sparing the third level slot might also be difficult early on, especially if the party needs you to be its Haste-bot.

Also, is doing the multi-claw thing really worth giving up your manufactured weapon (along with your weapon's enchants, your iteratives and, most importantly, the weapon's threat range) if you do not specifically invest in such a build?

There also seems to be disagreement on whether you can use your arcane pool to enchant a natural weapon (because the wording specifies a weapon you are *holding*) - but even if you can, it would be only 1 claw.

Finally, apparently in a strict reading of the rules, you cannot use more then one weapon (natural or otherwise) with spell combat, ever. (in this reading, spell combat is its own unique full-round action that allows you to use all attacks of ONE weapon, and is not compatible with the full attack action)

The guide says that Alter Self isn't great for combat. I was planning to use it for access to extra hands 1 spell level lower then Monstrous Physique - am I missing something?

Speaking of extra hands, aside from rods, can a strength magus use them to use spell combat while two-handing his weapon? If so, that's actually a pretty big deal worth mentioning under the polymorph spells that enable this trick. Would also make me value doing the Power Attack/Blade Tutor thing higher.