Page 67: [To completely destroy Barzillai after he's become a genius loci do a bunch of things and then...] "the core of his soul must be located (this can be at any location of your choosing in all of Ravounel) and forced to manifest with a miracle or wish spell."
Where do you feel Barzillai's soul would be found? What would be most fitting?
The Temple of Asmodeus is a perfect red herring locale. Barzillai only barely worshipped Asmodeus and keen PCs will note this.
I love the idea of the Opera House and the symmetry that Kasoh mentioned.
Bonus Points for forcing his soul to manifest by playing the Song of Silver.
Extra Bonus Points if you create a way in which the PCs need to concentrate and play the song over a number of consecutive rounds in order to fully force the soul to manifest.
Double Extra Bonus Points if he is able to affect the PCs fully during those rounds.
No, actually I will be dropping things all at once, however given the nature of the pace they will most likely be unaware of the gravity of the situation. That means they will most likely be tackling whatever is in front of them at first and then as report come in they will start to see the bigger picture.
I have game in about 30 so I will have to give a more in depth response another time.
My PCs were just coming off their heavy handed win over the Chelaxian negotiators and happened to be in their manor on the northern border of Jarvis End and the Temple district. They heard muttering from the next room and entered the parlor only to see a pale old woman knitting on their couch. She was muttering to herself about the meddling Silver Ravens bringing doom upon the city. Eventually they heard enough and tried to wake her from her focused and despondent rambling. When they did her true nature became apparent; her skin immediately rotted and her eyes turned black. She floated above the couch and assailed the PCs with shrieks of agony. The Silver Ravens sent her back to death and her essence dissipated in wisps of incorporeality. Then, through the window behind where she sat in the parlor, the Silver Ravens saw dark churning clouds form above the Temple once dedicated to Asmodeus. I ended that session with the sound of hounds baying in a mournful chorus.
Mechanically speaking, I rolled my first random encounter of the haunting and it was a Banshee.
My best advice would be for you to ramp up your Random Encounters. Roll them long before your next session and create themes for them. You don't need to be bound by them. They're for inspiration only. Not every Random Encounter needs to be combat either.
•Have the PCs witness dottari fending off Shadow Mastiffs
•Have the PCs witness imps ripping slate tiles off of a roof in the markets of Redroof.
•Have a Hound of Old Kintargo ignite, snarl, chuff, and bay from a darkened alley only to disappear by way of dimension door. Then, have the PCs hear screaming from a crowd nearby. When they investigate (expecting the hound) they find two bone devils and a barbed devil binding a group of commoners in chains.
I have to preface this next part with reiterating that the corporeal outsiders the PCs face in this part seem to be summoned rather than bound. (The bodies return to their plane upon death)
That said, here's how I plan to handle each district: there will be a reprieve every time they beat a 'focus encounter.' After one is resolved, 2 to 4 days will go by where there is only rumors of hauntings occurring. Then, the hauntings are renewed and one of the districts will increase in power as written. This increases the tension and decreases the time it takes these encounters to escalate. In my opinion it also gives the city the feeling of being alive and allows the PCs a bit of time to collect themselves before another wave.
You are nearing the climax of a story that has taken your PCs out of the shadows and into the light. They were a rag tag group of dissenters and have become the saviors of the city. Don't skimp on the epic-ness that is going on in Kintargo. Discovering and untethering the focus encounters shouldn't take five days. If it does, you're really letting your PCs down.
An issue to consider is one that's come up at my table. One player wants to goad Queen Abrogail II to break the Kintargo Contract. If your players want to interact with the civil war, a time skip makes it harder for them to do that, possibly.
That's a great point, but I think that entire plot line is never a smart one for PCs to realistically pursue.
When my group brought it up in front of Jilia Bainilus, she looked shocked and exclaimed "We have no standing army." and then asked, "What happens to us and our citizens after we force the throne to lose Hell's support by goading the Chelish army to cross our borders?"
"We will be the first to suffer her wrath. As tempting as this might be, I would rather Kintargo serve as a living bastion of hope than a sacrificial lamb."
I wouldn't have stopped my group from pursuing that story if it was one they wanted to tell. When they heard Jilia say this, they all looked at each other and decided that they need to focus on Kintargo instead of the Throne.
These thing should be done relatively soon after book 4
1: They need to Understand the Kintargo Contract.
2: They need to assemble the Board of Governors.
3: They need to Nominate a Lord Mayor.
-Optional: Unite the regions with resigned treaties.
4: Lord Mayor needs to reject Cheliax.
After that point, Cheliax is done with Kintargo and Hell’s Vengeance doesn’t matter. It’s probably true that Abrogail would send her negotiators to Kintargo to solidify relations as soon as she can if only to curb dissent and maintain some semblance of control. You’re going to have to adjust CR ratings here if you plan to move this closer to level 13, but not by much.
5: Negotiations.
6: Breaktime!
Once that’s done, I think this is the time for your break. I also think that maybe it’s not just Barzillai that brings them out of retirement but Mangvhune as well.
What if Barzillai’s awakening is hinted at with small haunts that plague Kintargo and its actually Barzillai’s growing power that has weakened Kintargo’s place on the Material Plane, thus allowing Mangvhune to return?
I’m not sure I’ll be answering the question entirely but I’ll definitely give my roadmap for how I plan to run the entire thing.
First, the PCs approach the area near ravounel woods. There exist several hamlets in the area and I plan to convey to the PCs that these are small independent hamlets of poor farmers and woodsmen. None of them hold any real sway over the other.
There use to be a village with a mill on the border of Ravounel Forest, but it “completely disappeared” some years ago and the locals blame the haunted wood. Since then, the hamlets have fallen onto hard times. The locals warn the PCs not to go near the wood because they’ll never be heard from again.
Once the PCs enter the wood to investigate (they will right?!) they’re eventually met with the dream spell of a “Dryad” who tells them the ones they seek are the Strix and that no one near the woods will be safe with those murderous strix around.
If the PCs kill the strix no questions asked, it’ll appear as though they can nominate a local to lead the area. Which will work for a week or two but eventually all of those locals will disappear too and they’ll lose that part of Ravounel.
If they parley with the strix, they’ll find out about the witches and probably strike a deal with the strix for local logging rights.
This is essentially an anti-murder hobo encounter where everything is not as it seems or as they’re told. It’s up to you as a gm to reward those who choose to investigate instead of believing everything they hear.
So my group just went into hell to meet the Barrister Fellow.
Through deception and guile, they achieved the lofty goal of waiting in a guest chamber.
I decided to ask them to describe the half hour they wait, and they did to satisfying detail. I then asked them to describe their next half hour. They did. And so on... for several hours.
They made it 3 hours before their waiting turned into “Screw this! Let’s teleport outta the room and kill everything!”
Little do they know, they only had 9 hours left before Odexidie finished up his paperwork. XD
Lesson: There’s more than one way to get tortured in hell.
In my campaign, I actually timed that assault to occur on the same night as the Ruby Masquerade. It turned into a two pronged assault on the PCs that they didn’t see coming.
Oh, that's clever. All the moreso because now Barzillai's plot against the PCs doesn't depend on their sticking their heads into his trap. All the better for him if they do, but if they elect to sit tight he has an insurance policy.
Thanks bud, I see a lot of your advice on here and I take that compliment from you seriously.
It’s worth noting, that if they don’t stick their heads in Barzillai’s trap, Barzillai still wins by pulling off the masquerade and framing the PCs. It’s all about forcing a win for him in one way or another.
I agree with you about the weakness of the assault on the PCs HQ seeming weak. But, that’s what’s great about APs, you can modify them to suit your group.
In my campaign, I actually timed that assault to occur on the same night as the Ruby Masquerade. It turned into a two pronged assault on the PCs that they didn’t see coming.
On one hand, they knew the Masquerade was a trap and brought a handful of allies to the fray thinking they’d get the upper hand.
On the other, those left behind were forced to defend the HQ (Which in our campaign was still the Longroads Coffee House because the group expressed little interest in the Lucky Bones.)
This allowed me to pause the Ruby Masquerade just as the combat erupted. The Devils Bells chimed 5 times. I then handed 2 character sheets to each of the players and had them play severely under leveled NPC allies defending the Coffee House. In the end, 3 allies were captured in the assault and the NPCs heard the Bells Chime 5 times. This side scene really helped to guide the PCs through the revolution chapter and gave Barzillai a victory.
So, Barzillai’s apparent “ineptitude” became a touch more believable as a person who stretched their resources a touch too thinly but was able to come out with a victory against the PCs.
It's going to take a while (as my group isn't even halfway through Book 2 so far), but I'm going to switch out the map for the Hags in Ravounel Forest with Iconic Maps' "The Hag Tree" map. It's a fantastic map and given the hags' theme, having them in a flooded part of the forest living in a huge tree just seems right somehow. :)
What did your PCs do to celebrate the end of... book 4? It's a pretty significant party opportunity. I'm drawing a blank on stuff to do.
I’ve started writing the outline for a performance put on by the city’s youth commemorating the battle. It’ll most likely occur on bleakbridge and be a stylized performance I’ll call “Theatre of the Mundane” or something. All practical effects and plenty of narration. The summoned pit fiend devils will be a group of five goats dressed up like devils that the children scare into the crowd amid raucous laughter.
Additionally, I plan to have the entire bridge be a massive street festival. Plenty of revelry and celebration with citizens constantly buying drinks and giving gifts to the PCs. There’ll be plenty of opportunities to show allies in “disarmed scenarios” where I can convey the idea that the PCs have done something truly great and life (and the campaign) has shifted. Octavio without his armor and smiling/laughing is a good example.
I’m just thinking as I type that it’ll be a really great addition to have each of the noble houses approach the PCs in one way or another.
For those of you who had Barzillai Teleport/DDoor to another area of the temple...
Where did you have him go? Did the location add something to the fight there?
I ended last session with the dimension door trick with him at 40 or so hit points. He's got one last erinyes and Corinstian Grivenner is stuck in an acid pit with a wall of stone preventing him from air walking out. So, help could come, but it's definitely the last battle.
I'm thinking of having him go to his Outer/Inner Sanctum area (39/41), where the forbiddance effect will make for challenging terrain. That could lead to a firefight, where the party refuses to go in and tries to lure him out.
That sounds like great fun! Lol
I didn’t utilize that area in my combats. I kinda wish I would have. I’ll be interested to see how it goes!
But I kept describing Barzillai’s body continually heal from the bloodless wounds the PCs were delivering (a result of his healing inquisition). At that point the group was obviously nervous. It wasn’t long before they dealt him enough Dex damage to paralyze him, yet even so his body continued to heal...
The overall consensus was that they needed to Coup de Grace him before he heals any more.
I think what I’m trying to say is that it’s incredibly important for the GM to convey the idea that he is and will continue to be a threat if kept alive.
1) If your group is able to subdue Barzillai and remove his heart, I’d definitely pull that “spike of iron impales Barzillai before
retracting into the pit created while leaving his gear, and
more importantly, his Chelish Crux, behind in a smoking
heap.”
2) That’s a good question. Barzillai doesn’t want the Kintargo Contract voided. Barzillai knows the contract through and through, (after all he met with Odexidie and Odexidie wants it revealed) but he doesn’t care to void the contract. He is only keeping it as a back up plan just in case the throne or church discover his plans to become a genius loci.
So my group has finally come to the end of book four. They’re a bit of a ham-fisted bunch and have chosen the less subtle approach of hitting the temple hard and often and having escape plans in place. This has led to some insanely high risk, high drama, combats in the knave and on the balcony of the temple.
At one point they killed Grivenner and absconded with the body and casted Legend Lore on his corpse to learn more about him and the ritual. As the Oracle was casting it, Grivenner’s body began to dissolve as they realized (true) resurrection was being cast on him. (Spell bumped because drama is king.)
I added a bunch of priests to the whole encounter placed mainly in the clergy quarters who then took station at different points throughout the temple to defend it. By their last foray, the enemy was down to 9 clerics, the gardener, the contract devil who joined the defense of the knave, a dead PC turned vampire, a risen Grivenner with few items, and Barzillai. Having dealt so much death on both sides, the PCs has just attained level 13 for this final moment.
When it was all said and done, Barzillai paced behind and under a Wall of Force as the party dispatched the rest of his entourage. The spell had two rounds left when the last Paralyzed cleric of Asmodeus was coup de graced by the party Spiritualist.
From behind the Wall of Force, Barzillai’s muffled voice could be heard.
Barzillai Thrune wrote:
“ You’ve proven yourselves particularly vexing. How happy you must be that we now stand amongst the bodies of those who have served me in life. I commend you on your persistence, but none of this matters.
You see, you’re like a child at a carnival. Far too eager to win your trinket, that you can’t see you’ve lost the game before it’s been played. I was once like you. Pathetically wide eyed and hopelessly continuing to spin the wheel hoping for my number. Let me reveal a little secret to you: the game you play is rigged. The wheel is weighted. But, there’s a way to win: one simply needs to move the weight as I have.
Then, and only then, one can’t possibly lose.
I can see the anger on all of your faces. I feel your seething hatred. You undoubtedly assume that, in this analogy, we are taking turns and now it’s your turn to spin the wheel. But you’d be mistaken.
Let me be entirely candid, I am done playing the game. I am now the grounds on which you are allowed to play.
I offer you now, one last chance to bend your insolent knees. Prostrate yourselves before me and serve. If you refuse, I’ll be forced to break those knees.”
Next game the Wall will come crashing down and the beleaguered PCs will face a drained but still deadly Barzillai with 1 Mythic Tier.
If you’ve got an epic moment like this in your game where you can give a timely BBEG speech, steal this!
So I’ve never run Mythic rules before and maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time figuring out what Mythic Abilities Barzillai has chosen. I know he’s a Heirophant and it seems as though he has chosen the Mythic Spell ability. I can’t find his other ability though.
They don’t seem to be spelled out like they would if they were feats and my experience level with Mythic is really making it difficult to find.
Anyone have any insight?
Basically, use process of elimination. If you can find an ability that can't be attributed to anything else (e.g., inquisitor class levels, bone devil HD), it's probably a mythic ability.
I’ve definitely tried doing that. It’s not the easiest thing to do when you’re parsing through a high level opponent.
Normally, I wouldn’t care so much but I’m currently looking to add a mythic tier to B in book 4. I want to grant a mythic tier to the PCs when they eventually encounter the Fane and add another tier to B. Being that I wanna keep things consistent, I wanna know which abilities B’s already chosen.
So I’ve never run Mythic rules before and maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time figuring out what Mythic Abilities Barzillai has chosen. I know he’s a Heirophant and it seems as though he has chosen the Mythic Spell ability. I can’t find his other ability though.
They don’t seem to be spelled out like they would if they were feats and my experience level with Mythic is really making it difficult to find.
I accidentally subscribed to the ongoing adventure module subscription in my order today. I’d like to unsubscribe to that and not receive the recent or future modules.
(Please note: I would NOT like to unsubscribe to the adventure path subscription.)
Good point. I think though, not everyone. This is a temple, so wisdom is in high supply. They will protect their ritual fully. They'll have a plan in place for what to do if one of the engines shuts off. As DM, you should figure out timelines and groupings of people coming to investigate. But not everyone--they will recognize this could be a distraction to weaken the central area.
Thanks for the feedback!
That’s great advice. Last night Aluceda responded alone. She was threatening them arrogantly. At one point she hissed “I don’t need to kill you. I only need to slow you down.”
They killed her but that’s not always cut and dry when dealing with Vampires. >;)
The temple is now acutely aware that they’re under siege. It should be a fun next few games. The temple authorities will do their best to soften the PCs up with expendable resources in an effort to drain their resources. The ritual must continue!!
There’s no mention of the reaction within the temple to one of both of the Infernal Engines being shut off.
Is it reasonable to assume that this action taken by the PCs would put the temple on high alert since the shutting off of one engine deactivated the column of hellfire enshrouding Grivenner?
I’m thinking that raising the alarm would send everyone to the knave but Aluceda and Barzillai would personally inspect the Infernal Engines.
This came up when my group of PCs were planning to combat an enemy known to do Hellfire damage. (1/2 fire, 1/2 unholy)
According to the Locational Hazard “Hellfire”, which does the same ratio of damage, the Unholy damage can be negated with Protection from Evil. I’ve never seen this before, but if the rule is ubiquitous it drastically changes the way Unholy and Holy weapons and damage should be ruled.
Arguably, these are not the same sources and should be treated differently regardless of name. I can’t find anything regarding the ability to negate Unholy damage from something like an Unholy weapon simply by casting Protection from Evil.
What would be the proper ruling here?
Does protection from evil negate unholy damage?
Is the Hellfire Location Hazard unique in that Protection from Evil negates the Unholy aspect?
“Lens of the Magi”
Value: 1,800 gp CL:1
On command the user can Detect Magic as the spell 5 times per day.
To make it more interesting, make it intelligent and give it a personality and history.
If you have a problem with Vishikanya ask yourself “why?” He can still be the adopted child of a noble family killed on the Night of Ashes. In fact, a certain Gardener might want his family killed! Why?
“Did you explain how (and how many) points were earned and are required to be spent?”
Yes.
“Seems like something that is far too meta for my liking - and perhaps there should be some narrative about how warm or frosty reactions are at certain point levels.”
Yeah it is a bit meta, but I found it necessary. This entire event is difficult to run and any bit of transparency was welcome. My group is very narrative at times. I encourage them to describe their half hour and bounce NPCs in as it fits the story. The transparency provided by the Masque Points and their fluctuation based on actions taken by the group actually helped them to create the narrative they told on their turn.
“I do not intend to let them micromanage how they act at a ball with comments like "well I would like to do some more exploring but we need more Masque points so Player X go an dance"...”
That’s up to you! But your quote is a player speaking. A character might say something like: “We need to make a scene so everyone’s attention is away from Character Y. Character X, can you draw some attention to the dance floor?”
“I thought obvious combat triggered the trap early (as written)? I will have to check again. Or did you make some alterations?”
Good question. I wouldn’t necessarily say a scream is obvious combat. Especially when one character on the near the dance floor Distracted the audience with a comment about “Lovers sneaking off to the rigging to discover each other’s true identities!”
They later pushed their luck with the trio of bearded devils and one teleported to the stage which started the combat.
I’m not sure if I created the rule of “If sounds of combat are heard the party loses 10 Masque Points” or if it was in the AP. Either way, it created a huge sense of tension as they witness their Masque Points disappear. (Which everyone equated to a palpable sense of unwelcoming tension.)
In my campaign, there isn’t a single thing written in the adventure that hasn’t been spun by Barzillai to take credit for what the PCs have done or to twist what they’ve done into something the average citizen might be fearful of. He’s redacted, spun, and manipulated everything... except for the Menador Gap that was destroyed a few days ago and when the PCs hand-stamped 1000 silver coins with the symbol of a Raven and carpet bombed Bleakbridge. Barzillai has no answer for that one. XD
The destruction of the Menador Gap is a huge blow to trade as well as Chelish access to Kintargo. Barzillai would play up the destruction of commerce more than his inability to call the Chelish Military.
As far as visible affects of Spells: I don’t describe any visible affects of spells after casting. You can detect them with detect magic, but a mage doesn’t look like he’s wearing glowing armor after casting mage armor. This is in my world, not necessarily canon.
Don’t force your group to split up. It should come naturally as the PCs want to explore and discover/eliminate threats. Searching costs 2 Masque Points per PC action. Obvious combat (example: a bearded devil in the rafters screamed as a silence spell wore off) costs 10 points. The PCs can earn Masque Points by mingling, dancing, etc. but that requires them to be separate from the group.
One tip I’d suggest before running this is to explain the mini game to your group a bit. You don’t have to give every detail, but definitely explain that Masque Points are a way of maintaining your welcome.
I described it like this: “Imagine I had a party and there was a bunch of people I didn’t know coming. I don’t want people upstairs or in my basement. If I found someone snooping through my house, I might give a warning (10 Masque Points) but if it continued to happen my patience would wear thin and I’d tell everyone to leave.”
Putting that in the players mind really helped to describe the scene to them. You might be lifting the veil a bit by exposing some rules but the scene, experience, and level of fun will benefit from it.
You’ve covered a lot and posed a bunch of questions. I’m gonna do my best to unpack most of it. A lot of this will be justification, interpretation, how I’ve dealt with things as a GM, and how my group has acted/responded. This isn’t a critique of your questions.
At the end of Book 2, an announcement went out throughout the city asking those claiming the title of Silver Ravens to claim rewards done in the interest of Kintargo and thereby Cheliax, its Lord Mayor and the Queen herself. It was a tense moment as the PCs stalled until Barzillai was about to grant the rewards to his own allies (not to be stood up.) A PC appeared in the guise of a Full Plate wearing levitating hero in a Raven Helm and denounced Thrune and condemned him asserting their lack of aligning interests. They made a bit of a fool of him and refused his gifts. The Erinyes in my game is dressed identically and her role was to fly above the crowd and denounce Thrune and all hell’s lapdogs.
“The entire scheme seems designed to target players or perhaps pc's and not the actual audience.”
I would say that a good portion of Chelaxians know what a Devil is and most know that Angelic Elves with pristine skin and divinely blue eyes are indeed not Devils. I would go so far as to say that there are a handful that even know exactly what an Azata is. In any regard, it’s an easy justification.
“Why should the attendees otherwise assume the Azata are supposed to be allied with the Silver Ravens?”
Because the Azata scream “For the Silver Ravens and a free Kintargo!” and “You’re all allies of a psychopath and will die for your loyalty!” I think a few narrative moments and calls to arms mid combat go a long way in solving this.
“If we're assuming the attendees know what an Azata is, does that imply they should know what Unholy Blight is? Cause it seems weird the flying Azata/Silver Raven disguised Erinyes is casting a spell that hurts attendees but not devils, Asmodeans, or some Dottari?”
Yes! Totally. This is a weird one. BUT crazy combat with mass slaughter and testimony being less than perfect, I’m assuming that’s an easy redaction for Thrune.
“What happens when the real Silver Ravens appear and decry the entire mess a charade?”
Crazy right? Who do we believe? Throw an opposed Bluff Check in there and see who is more convincing.
“Assuming the pc's defeat Cizmekris, who unalterably appears as Barzillai - who is now just as "officially" dead as the Silver Ravens are guilty of attacking the dance - How is he issuing any orders at all except by trying to explain why a fake Barzillai was at the dance. And what about the dead bearded devils, etc. who lose their hat of disguises?”
••’As reward for my dedication to our great city, the Lord of Contracts has seen that I return to the world of the living to fulfil my divine obligation as your protector! Listen not to these terrorists and assassins! They aim to unseat the infernal influence that keeps us safe from terrors far greater! I Barzillai Thrune will keep this city safe from the chaos that will destroy all you hold dear!’••
“And the story of the kind-hearted Barzillai vs the heartless Silver Ravens is incongruent with the recent weeks/months of the campaign.”....”Barzillai destroyed the Thrashing Badger, Silver Star and Victocora Estate,”
No one knows that. In my game it was Tiefling Anarchists.
“...he's imposed erratic and draconian Proclamations,...”
All necessary to maintain order!
“...permitted a para-military group to dog-house random citizens,...”
Allies of anarchists that seek to destroy this city!
“...had one of his minions unleash tooth fairies in the Devil's Nursery,...”
Wait. What? That had nothing to do with our Lord Mayor!
“...his dottari have done nothing while the Red Jills and Varl Wex ran amok,...”
Why isn’t Barzillai taking credit for those things in your game? He sure did in mine! And the PCs hated him for it.
“...officially dog-housed random minor criminals,...”
That’s not even a bad thing.
“....crippled the city economically with martial law and onerous bridge taxes...”
All necessary to maintain peace and order. These terrorists cannot be allowed to run free!
“...pointlessly outlawed the city's own order of Hellknights...”
You need to find a justification for that one. In my game the PCs rescued a citizen from doghousing. Barzillai blamed it on The Torrent and considered their act treason.
“The Ravens on the other hand have freed prisoners,...”
You mean “freed criminals?”
“...stopped dog-housing,...”
Barzillai stopped that on his own.
“...dealt with multiple threats that were indiscriminately killing citizens...”
Barzillai should take credit for most of that.
“Barzillai starts the dance in an exceptionally deep hole credibility and attitude-wise.”
Obviously by my answers that wasn’t the case in my game.
“Seems really implausible the Silver Ravens would start killing citizens instead of dottari, devils and Asmodeans.”
In my game, Barzillai is currently battling an Azata on stage as he huffs up. Somehow that Azata can land a hit!
“About the only thing in the AP provided plan that makes sense is that Thrune and his allies' goal is to kill everyone in the Opera House.”
I couldn’t disagree more. He actually needs survivors to share what they saw. As people flee the party, they’re convinced they saw Silver Ravens and Azata attack the party and Barzillai engaged them. Those who survive will learn that a great battle ensued and many citizens were murdered as Barzillai fought the anarchists(and died/was raised by Asmodeus to continue protecting the city.)
Overall, I think you need to be more manipulative when playing Barzillai.
Honestly, a lot of these tactics are in conflict with the whole "false flag" concept they went through a lot of trouble to pull off. And, yes, if no one lives to tell the tale, then you're fine. But if you kill everyone, how are you going to blame it on the Silver Ravens and why bother to use so many hats of disguise on the devils in the first place?
I think the “Summoned Devils don’t appear as Azata” argument is the absolute best reason no Devils present should summon other Devils.
We’re currently between games and they triggered the battle early, but here is how I tweaked the strategy of the battle to have it make sense:
• Barzillai never makes his “sacrifice speech”. Instead, he will give a great speech about his kind plans for Kintargo.
• The Trap is triggered and the Erinyes appears above dressed in Silver Raven fashion. She gives whatever anti-Thrune/kill the Thrune loyalists speech necessary. (At this point there should be hints about what the PCs look like even if they’ve been super diligent.)
• All other “Azata” appear and one bearded devil engages Barzillai’s Major Image in combat.
• Dottari corral the public but make bad choices, fumble with keys, send NPCs to rooms without exits etc.
• Eventually someone will get the doors open. If not, the Dottari are instructed to do so in order to let what’s been seen spread through the city.
• Survivors Sculpt Corpses of Several victims to appear as the terrorist Silver Ravens.
• Barzillai presents corpses the next day, outlaws their supporters, and mourns the death of citizens. This galvanizes the city and crumbles the rebellion before it begins.
From an NPC perspective: Barzillai is throwing a party. Silver Ravens interrupt, denounce Thrune and attack public. Barzillai battles Azata. Dottari tried to help public. Some of the public get away. The next day, Barzillai appears and relays how he saved the city.
It looks to me like that’s a fix. Let me know if you see a hole.
I’m a bit confused by the Masquerade combat and it’s CR.
So this entirely involves the Bone Devils present.
So Cizmekris is bound by the Church of Asmodeus and is capable of summoning an additional Bone Devil. Axala is the other Bone Devil, in G11, currently concentrating on its Major Image spell to create the orchestra in G3. Obviously, based on the fact that it will be concentrating for hours, Axala is bound as well and not summoned.
Under Cizmekris’ tactics it states that he attempts to summon a Bone Devil as one of his first actions, but what about Axala? Shouldn’t they both attempt to summon?
This would make for a hell of a challenge (pun intended) for the PCs regardless of how many NPC allies they have with them.
I'm hoping someone has an answer for this, because I wasn't seeing anything on this forum. I'm looking at starting this campaign, and I like crafting, so I pay close attention to the maps. I was looking at the Long Roads Coffeehouse map and can't tell what the things on the left side of the main room are. Are they booths? My co-DM thinks they're weapon racks.
They might be places to hang coats, umbrellas, etc since Kintargo is supposed to be kinda like San Francisco/London like in weather.
That does initially make sense, but there are 5 10ft X 10ft areas for it. That's a lot of real estate in a crowded coffee shop. I'm just wondering, would it be a terrible idea to send Rob Lazz a message asking him to clarify? Probably, right?
Yeah, I wouldn't bother. Just assume they're a combination of private booths, gift shelves filled with exotic coffees and teas, free standing wracks with expensive ceramic coffee mugs and hand-spun souvenir totes, coat racks, and the like.
Honestly, it's not going to matter. You will most likely not have combat in the coffee house, but if you do, assume they're difficult terrain.
it seems like book 5 would be better served with a piratical combat... heck, bring up the Cheliax bad girls from book 6 of Skull and Shackles. You could team up with the captain fella from book 2 and take them on!
that could be pretty fun!
Great Idea! (Aka: Neither re-hashed nor a bit vanilla plot thread)
You've seriously made me realize that I need to drop Ship Combat in here and probably completely ignore my Black Magga idea altogether!
A battle against a few Chelish Warships would be a great kick off!
BUT, after they succeed in defending against the Warships, Pirates would totally seek to capitalize on the unguarded waters and loot and plunder Kintargo in their infancy.
One of my players has taken a serious liking to Elia Nones and having Captain Sargaeta and Elia act as captains of separate ships sieging the pirate ships plaguing the Seas around the cities is awesome. Damn... you've given me a lot to think about.
(Maybe the ships will eventually be attacked by the Black Magga too ;)
Your group is throwing rocks at a bank robber with hostages.
I think this is a common tactic employed by many players. Simply put: players aren't use to their characters facing consequences. It's not often in a game that characters have to deal with the same battleground throughout the entirety of a campaign. This adventure path has taken any player who has the murder hobo tactic as a default and challenges the living hell out of them.
I have had players quit this campaign because they were too frustrated with the THREAT of consequences.
I wouldn't ease up on them. Torture is objectively evil AF. Murder is objectively evil AF.
Let me share a story from my campaign, it might give you ideas.
Salt Works Story:
The group was staking out the Salt Works and happened to come across a tiefling street vendor named Ryk. He was smarmy and off putting, but he clearly had no love for the current order and had personal acquaintances detained by the guard. When he found out what the group was doing, he did his best to provide them information.
The group sieged the Salt Works rather quietly but, being their first true covert mission, failed to wear masks or anything hiding their identity. As one, they barged into a room where several citizens group members played cards at a table as the members of Crowe's group were toiling away in the adjacent room.
It was utter confusion as the PCs murderous commanded one CCG member and charged the rest. As the "commanded" Citizens group member punches his ally across the face he stumbles back and runs out the door for help screaming for Dottari.
The prisoners knew they had to get out of there before the Dottari showed up and told the PCs to run.
Instead of a chance meeting elsewhere or wishing them good luck, a tiefling PC (We will call him M), tells Crowe and his men the EXACT location of the group's safe house and then turns to the unarmed Chelish Citizens Group and proceeds to murder them with his bare, clawed, hands.
I was dumbfounded, but not too shocked to fail to describe their pleas for help and mercy, nor did I fail to convey the blood that spattered across the walls and covered M as he bathed in his "righteousness".
(Sidenote: This player cried foul when his alignment shifted from CN to CE)
I didn't come down too hard on the players directly though. They got away and had an in character discussion about how things should be done.
Here is where you might get some ideas though: Remember Ryk? Do you wonder why I mentioned him?
The Chelish Citizens Group described M, but the Dottari couldn't find anyone matching that exact description. But the dottari HAD to find the guilty party. They had to find the Tiefling who murdered the CCG.
When word got out that someone was apprehended and would be excruciated, the PCs were relieved and just assumed the dottari were lying. Yet, they showed up that day to witness the "guilty" party being doghoused. Just before they released the doors... one of the players in the group turned to another and asked "Oh sh*t... do you think they arrested Ryk...!?"
If I was running this campaign, there would ABSOLUTELY be wanted posters all over town describing the group as Cultists of Rovagug. This notice would also be a perfect reason for Barzillai to give a public speech describing the murdered dottari as a father, husband, and son, and about how the NEED for Martial Law has never been greater. Honestly, the PCs would probably lose a few dozen supporters.
TLDR: The Silver Ravens have assumed the responsibility of Kintargo's well being. This is a city (country) that rewrites history to paint itself as the victor and champion. This is also a city that is currently held hostage. Anything the Silver Ravens do, for which they are not caught, should be repackaged and sold in Barzillai's favor. It's time for Barzillai to shoot a hostage.
In book five the group has another underwater encounter with a drowning devil, a charibdis and Skum.
This thread seems extremely rehashed and a bit vanilla. I haven’t entirely worked it out yet. Tentatively, I plan to have the drowning devil have mastery over a beast of legend known as The Black Maga (which was ignorantly freed and set into the ocean by our PCs last campaign when we played RoTRL)
One of my characters in CoT was turned into a vampire and after we failed that campaign, he broke into the groups safe house and murdered the Children of Westcrown. Rumors of his return have surfaced as Barzillai has hired him as a Rebellion-Ending Specialist.
I'm hoping someone has an answer for this, because I wasn't seeing anything on this forum. I'm looking at starting this campaign, and I like crafting, so I pay close attention to the maps. I was looking at the Long Roads Coffeehouse map and can't tell what the things on the left side of the main room are. Are they booths? My co-DM thinks they're weapon racks.
Being that the school is a frequent haunt for students of the alabaster academy, they’re probably not booths.
Why running this obvious trap is completely worth running even though you know your players won't show up to collect the items Barzillai is offering them:
I knew there was no way that the players would be dumb enough to go up to collect their reward nor send someone in their stead as showing that the Ravens are at all aligned with Thrune is a terrible idea. I was fully prepared for them to simply not show up and had a group of bad guys planted in the audience to come up and claim to be the leaders of the Ravens. My plan was to use the False Ravens as a counter-intelligence group against the PCs in the next two books.
Thankfully I hadn't planned that out too much because, instead, my players came up with a different plan.
"What if we use 'Lesser Summon Planar Ally' to get it to appear and give a prepared speech about what we've done and how we're not allied with House Thrune?"
So, remember Yilliv, the Scrivenite, from Hocum's Fantasmagorium? Yeah, the group ended up talking to it for a while before having to kill it so that they could move forward. During that conversation they learned that Yilliv was being forced to do things it didn't want to do so they figured it would be the prefect planar ally to summon. The bard, the religious proselytizer rogue, and the Poison Pen of Kintargo got together and started working on the speech.
The morning of the ceremony the Shaman prepared 'Protection from Evil' in case Barzillai and crew went and attacked the Scrivenite (or something).
At the appointed time Barzillai and his crew came out of the Opera House and Yilliv (who had flown up out of sight) descended from the heavens to begin the speech that the group worked on for nearly a week to get just right.
Barzillai tried casting Dismissal, a player rolled 15+ and passed, Barzillai tried casting Dismissal, a player rolled 15+ and passed, repeat this 2 more times and Barzillai ended up standing there seething in rage.
In an attempt to save face Thrune gave the speech that BornofHate wrote up in the OP and went...
Savant, that’s great!
My players, as expected, wanted nothing to do with rewards from their enemy. They didn’t even know how expensive they might be. Instead, they casted silence on Thrune’s area and gave a rousing anti-Thrune speech in a mundane disguise of Mithril armor complete with a helm fashioned as a Silver Raven. He actually let them talk..... knowing full well he has a scy focus. The player was levitating above the crowd, gave the speech, went invisible, and was ‘skyhooked’ out of there by an invisible raven animal companion.
Afterwards, Thrune gave his counter speech which didn’t quite compare to the PCs. The scenario awarded them 1D6 supporters for every five by which it superseded Barzillai’s Check.
For their presence of mind and creativity, I awarded them a bonus teamwork feat. Something I’ll probavly do a few more times throughout the campaign.
If the players fulfill the objectives for allying with nobles (like the Earn Gold one, for example) before they actually approach that noble family, should they be eligible for the alliance when they make their approach?
Getting into the perspective of a noble, I would say no. A noble of Kintargo would expect a Rebellion to claim any benign act as their own and, being an unofficial organization, it would be hard to properly validate those actions.
I could easily envision a PC claiming "Yes but we've already..."
To which a Noble family might respond " We've only just begun our relationship. It's best to assume we are working towards the same goals. You can validate my pedigree. Sadly, the same can not be said of you."
I might be bias, but I view the "noble families throwing in with the PCs" as equivalent to a death sentence if the rebellion fails. They want to be sure of the groups power and drawing out the interactions between the PCs and the noble families can only add color and role-play to your game.
(Granted, if your group is on the roleplay-light side of things, I would recommend giving them a fair amount of color and praise as the noble family claims to have heard confirmation of their endeavors. I might even encourage them to help craft reasons why the noble family in question knows of their acts.)
if you want to do pro-thrune vigilantes, or a group that wants to make kintargo into a republic, do it in book 5 (where the republican thing might just threaten the whole effort). there's plenty of narrative space for it there. i don't think it fits before that.
It’s all about quantity. I’m going to introduce several scenarios in my game focusing on the False Ravens. I plan to draw out earning the trust of Nobility by making each a bit more than a single skill check. There will be plenty of time to confront these False Ravens during those weeks.
As long as they feel accomplished and that they’re eliminating Thrune’s options, I don’t see it as derailing at all. I think the trick is to remember that these Ravens aren’t the big bad of the book, they’re stepping stones and, conveniently, a much needed source of treasure in a rather sparse adventure.
In my game, the Red Jill’s are under the impression she’s an Erinyes (a simple hat of disguise or disguise self spell coupled with her wings makes this easy.) She has the gang under the impression that she has Tiefling interests at heart. The group was able to kill her and when the confronted the Tiefling gang and presented them with the truth of her nature. I granted them a diplomacy check and gave them a bonus team (which replaced the Fushi sisters they botched.)
I like the idea RogueRouge. Any rebellion organization would definitely have their share of opposing opinions and growing pains.
As Warped Savant mentioned, I have already sewn the seeds of Barzillai's False Silver Ravens. Surprisingly, the groups encounter with Tayacet Tiora went surprisingly well and they learned of Barzillai's plans from her. She, being on the list of recruits, was able to drop a few of the names of people Barzillai has enlisted. Here are the NPC's I've built or farmed in addition to Tayacet Tiora. (A few of their names might even be from the Heroes mentioned in the opening of Book 4.)
The False Ravens:
Laika Tindalos (CE female halforc Daggerfighter Rogue 5 / Brawler 3): CR 7
Laika was born to a remote tribe of orcs in Ustalav, only to be sold into slavery by her lover. From there she never trusted the male sex. As a slave, she was funneled through the trade and ultimately ended up in Vyre fighting in their bloodsport pits. She won her freedom in the city of masks and since fled to Kintargo. There she quickly gathered like minded half orcs forming The Jollytime Girls. She is honored to ally with Ursekk.
Knowledge Local
DC 20 Laika was a slave in Vyre who earned her freedom on The Days of Wrath.
DC 25 She was originally from a remote tribe of orcs in Ustalav but was sold into slavery.
DC 30 She was sold into slavery by her lover. She has formed a small gang of half-orc women known as The Jollytime Girls.
DC 35 She has a professional fascination with Ursekk
Thorethela “Winterleaf” (CE female noble drow elf Magus Hexcrafter 9): CR 9
Thorethela was high born drow of the Noble Vinthe'rasa family. She saw herself as the future scion to her line and had already made moves to ensure this, including murdering her older sister. When tasked with overseeing her family's trafficking of human slaves and potential host offerings through the surface nation of Nidal, she jumped at the chance. Yet, her destiny crumbled apart after the abduction of one of the Korvosian nobility. Her group was trailed and confronted by members of the Order of the Torrent including a young Malicus Marro. Shamed, Thorethela never returned home. She knew of her impending disgrace and what it meant for her future. It wasn't long before she heard of her mother's displeasure. Her matron saw Thorethela as a failure unable to forsee such an obvious loose end. As expected, Thorethela was removed from her line. She went into hiding from her past and has since blamed Malicus Marro. Once word reached her of the disgrace of the Order of the Torrent and Paralictor Maro, Thorethela knew that he was no longer protected by the Chelaxian Crown and she could finally have her revenge. She has travelled to Kintargo to see it exacted. Unfortunately, she arrived after Maro had been released and played no part in his death. She felt as though her revenge would go unsatiated until she learned that Maro had two sons. After learning this, she has settled on the ability to end his lineage as a suitable alternative. (Maro is the father of 2 PCs)
Knowledge Local:
DC 20 Thorethala arrived in Cheliax from Nidal a short time ago and was angered to hear that Malicus Maro was arrested, released, and has since died.
DC 25 She had a longstanding vendetta against Maro for interfering with business and has felt disgraced since.
DC 30 Maro disgraced her human trafficking organization by freeing a Korvosian noble who she intended to ransom.
DC 35 She isn't originally from Nidal, but her origins and lineage are a complete mystery that only she knows.
DC 40 She has heard that Maro had a son capable of carrying on his lineage and has seen that ending his lineage is a suitable alternative to killing Maro personally.
DC 50 Thorethala is a drow of noble origins seeking to earn her way back into her family's grace.
Tividar Sarini (NE male human Bard 4/Cleric of Asmodeous 3): CR 6
Tividar Sarini is a Kintargo native and eldest son of the Sarini Family. He grew up with one foot in the church and the other in the city's aristocracy. After traveling throughout Cheliax as a student, he eagerly returned home when word reached him of Thrune's growing control of Kintargo. Today, he sees the moves necessary to catapult his family into the history books by reclaiming the Archduchy of Ravounel after it was lost in the civil war.
Tividar is a sniveling pretty boy who thinks the world owes him more than he has been given. He berates “Doctore” and carries a whip as a reminder of who is in charge.
Knowledge Local
DC 15 Tividar Sarini is the eldest son of the Sarini Family and follows in his family's passion for the arts.
DC 20 He only recently returned home and after Barzillai was placed in control of the city.
DC 25 Tividar grew up with one foot in the Theatre and one foot in the Temple.
DC 30 He slums it by frequenting small theaters and brothels in Jarvis End and isnt known to ever be without “Doctore”
DC 35 Tividar has made it clear that he sees this new opportunity to raise his family back to where it once was as the First Archduchy of Ravounel under HIM Queen Abrogail II.
Ursekk “Doctore” (LE male half orc Monk 10): CR 9
Ursekk's size and strength made him a prize for Chelish slavers. He is currently owned by the Sarini family but has earned a level of respect that defines him as a slave in only the most loosest of senses. Lady Urora Sarini has grown carnally fond of him beyond the slave-master relationship. She often employs him in her erotic Theatre of the Real events which are often followed by erotic afterparties with her noble friends.
Although he is always in his manacles, they do very little to inhibit his abilities.
Knowledge Local
DC 20 Ursekk is a Sarini slave used in live combat and theatre of the real.
DC 25 The manacles he wears are more for exposition than confinement. He is quite capable without them.
DC 30 His role at the Sarini after parties has become a spectacle for much of the upperclass with sadistic and erotic tastes.
DC 40 Urora Sarini is particularly fond of him.
I have yet to include Tombus Regegious in the group, but rest assured he will be throwing in with them VERY soon.
Another idea:
Foreshadowing and Spoilers:
I plan to drop in a bit of Vampire shenanigans. Having the fetchling Flowershop Crew foreshadow Aluceda and her role in book 4 is going to be fun. Years ago, we abandoned CoT and my paladin was turned into a Vampire. Having him return as a Blackguard agent Aluceda's and The Umbral Court should be fun. Not knowing who the Silver Ravens are, his goal is to draw them out into a confrontation. He wants them to find him. Being that The Tooth and Nail (and Old Kintargo in general) is a hotbed for malcontents, it only makes sense that he would target someone there. Luckily for him, the group and Setrona put poor Insome in charge of the Sweet Tooth (which in my campaign is a neighbor to the Tooth and Nail.)
Sadly, poor Insome will be waiting for the PCs on their next visit. Then, my goal is to have a bit of Cat and Mouse with the old PC and his fetchling group in the Shadows of Old Kintargo.
I run the Rebellion Rules but I have heavily modified them to make them more fun for my group. You can find my edits on the boards here somewhere.
Additionally,
I have recently made another modification: First, each team in the Rebellion can act once per week. Secondly, I reduced the number of actions the Rebellion has by half in case they need them for "No Team Required" Actions.
Honestly, I think the idea of running a Rebellion is cool and I want my players to have a blast with it. I want it to be fun and memorable, and I want them to remember it in future games and think: "Man, I wish we had a Secure Cache or Sabotage Action right now!"
There are a lot of tidbits that you'll see in the Rebellion Rules that actually hamper them, and there is nothing a team can do that will break your game. The Rebellion Rules will never 'win' Hell's Rebels and as long as the size of the Rebellion is at pace with what's recommended in the books, there won't be a problem with loosening the reins on most everything.
Did anyone make a list for the masquerade with guest and what masks they are wearing, and wouldn't mind sharing it? We're running it tomorrow and my imagination has dried up...
That's something I will be doing for our masquerade game.
I plan to make a randomizer similar to this.
D10 Roll 1 GENERAL ADJECTIVES
1: Translucent
2: Extravagant
3: Colorful
4: Pure Black
5: Pure Red
6: Pure Gold
7: Antique
8: Broken (Perhaps intentionally)
9: Dull
10: Hastily Made
D10 Roll 2: KEY DETAIL DESCRIPTORS
1: Eye-Less
2: Jaw-Less
3: Metal fasteners (Rivets, Buckles, Bolts, etc.)
4: Gem Encrusted (Could be real or fake)
5: Gold Leaf
6: Long Nosed
7: Crying
8: Laughing
9: Scaled
10: Roughly Textured
D10 Roll 3: NOUNS
1: Hound/Wolf
2: Devil
3: God/Goddess (refined based on character)
4: Porcelain Doll
5: Butterfly/Moth
6: Rare Magical Beast (Manticore, Chimera, etc.)
7: Troll/Ogre
8: Raven
9: Hero of Legend (PC from a past AP?)
10: Dragon
D10 Roll 4: MATERIAL
1: Paper Mache
2: Wood
3: Leather
4: Rare Metal
5: Feathers
6: Polished Stone
7: Leaves and Twigs
8: Clay
9: Textile
10: Unknown (But it looks a LOT like flesh)
Recently, Our group has totally abandoned experience points. They level when appropriate and, depending on party makeup, sometimes just before. I know this doesn’t eliminate you’re treasure needs, but it reduces your problems by half.
As far as treasure, it might be interesting for the PCs to hear that Barzillai has heard that the Menador Gap is a target of the rebellion. They might even hear that he is sending a caravan of resources to help bolster the defenses before the masquerade.
This will do one of two things:
1: it’ll push their timeline up and they’ll hit Menador before the masquerade.
2: they’ll ambush the caravan and get the loot and experience they need.
Either way you win.
(I’d even reward them by making Menador easier to sack if they ambush the caravan.)
Currently running Hell’s Rebels (just finishing book 2) for 5 people. We prefer a more robust roster and are interested in picking up another player (maybe 2 in special circumstances). We in West Dundee on Saturdays from 6-12a. Our ages range from mid 20s to mid 30s.
