So my group just went into hell to meet the Barrister Fellow.
Through deception and guile, they achieved the lofty goal of waiting in a guest chamber.
I decided to ask them to describe the half hour they wait, and they did to satisfying detail. I then asked them to describe their next half hour. They did. And so on... for several hours.
They made it 3 hours before their waiting turned into “Screw this! Let’s teleport outta the room and kill everything!”
Little do they know, they only had 9 hours left before Odexidie finished up his paperwork. XD
Lesson: There’s more than one way to get tortured in hell.
I agree with you about the weakness of the assault on the PCs HQ seeming weak. But, that’s what’s great about APs, you can modify them to suit your group.
In my campaign, I actually timed that assault to occur on the same night as the Ruby Masquerade. It turned into a two pronged assault on the PCs that they didn’t see coming.
On one hand, they knew the Masquerade was a trap and brought a handful of allies to the fray thinking they’d get the upper hand.
On the other, those left behind were forced to defend the HQ (Which in our campaign was still the Longroads Coffee House because the group expressed little interest in the Lucky Bones.)
This allowed me to pause the Ruby Masquerade just as the combat erupted. The Devils Bells chimed 5 times. I then handed 2 character sheets to each of the players and had them play severely under leveled NPC allies defending the Coffee House. In the end, 3 allies were captured in the assault and the NPCs heard the Bells Chime 5 times. This side scene really helped to guide the PCs through the revolution chapter and gave Barzillai a victory.
So, Barzillai’s apparent “ineptitude” became a touch more believable as a person who stretched their resources a touch too thinly but was able to come out with a victory against the PCs.
It's going to take a while (as my group isn't even halfway through Book 2 so far), but I'm going to switch out the map for the Hags in Ravounel Forest with Iconic Maps' "The Hag Tree" map. It's a fantastic map and given the hags' theme, having them in a flooded part of the forest living in a huge tree just seems right somehow. :)
What did your PCs do to celebrate the end of... book 4? It's a pretty significant party opportunity. I'm drawing a blank on stuff to do.
I’ve started writing the outline for a performance put on by the city’s youth commemorating the battle. It’ll most likely occur on bleakbridge and be a stylized performance I’ll call “Theatre of the Mundane” or something. All practical effects and plenty of narration. The summoned pit fiend devils will be a group of five goats dressed up like devils that the children scare into the crowd amid raucous laughter.
Additionally, I plan to have the entire bridge be a massive street festival. Plenty of revelry and celebration with citizens constantly buying drinks and giving gifts to the PCs. There’ll be plenty of opportunities to show allies in “disarmed scenarios” where I can convey the idea that the PCs have done something truly great and life (and the campaign) has shifted. Octavio without his armor and smiling/laughing is a good example.
I’m just thinking as I type that it’ll be a really great addition to have each of the noble houses approach the PCs in one way or another.
So my group has finally come to the end of book four. They’re a bit of a ham-fisted bunch and have chosen the less subtle approach of hitting the temple hard and often and having escape plans in place. This has led to some insanely high risk, high drama, combats in the knave and on the balcony of the temple.
At one point they killed Grivenner and absconded with the body and casted Legend Lore on his corpse to learn more about him and the ritual. As the Oracle was casting it, Grivenner’s body began to dissolve as they realized (true) resurrection was being cast on him. (Spell bumped because drama is king.)
I added a bunch of priests to the whole encounter placed mainly in the clergy quarters who then took station at different points throughout the temple to defend it. By their last foray, the enemy was down to 9 clerics, the gardener, the contract devil who joined the defense of the knave, a dead PC turned vampire, a risen Grivenner with few items, and Barzillai. Having dealt so much death on both sides, the PCs has just attained level 13 for this final moment.
When it was all said and done, Barzillai paced behind and under a Wall of Force as the party dispatched the rest of his entourage. The spell had two rounds left when the last Paralyzed cleric of Asmodeus was coup de graced by the party Spiritualist.
From behind the Wall of Force, Barzillai’s muffled voice could be heard.
Barzillai Thrune wrote:
“ You’ve proven yourselves particularly vexing. How happy you must be that we now stand amongst the bodies of those who have served me in life. I commend you on your persistence, but none of this matters.
You see, you’re like a child at a carnival. Far too eager to win your trinket, that you can’t see you’ve lost the game before it’s been played. I was once like you. Pathetically wide eyed and hopelessly continuing to spin the wheel hoping for my number. Let me reveal a little secret to you: the game you play is rigged. The wheel is weighted. But, there’s a way to win: one simply needs to move the weight as I have.
Then, and only then, one can’t possibly lose.
I can see the anger on all of your faces. I feel your seething hatred. You undoubtedly assume that, in this analogy, we are taking turns and now it’s your turn to spin the wheel. But you’d be mistaken.
Let me be entirely candid, I am done playing the game. I am now the grounds on which you are allowed to play.
I offer you now, one last chance to bend your insolent knees. Prostrate yourselves before me and serve. If you refuse, I’ll be forced to break those knees.”
Next game the Wall will come crashing down and the beleaguered PCs will face a drained but still deadly Barzillai with 1 Mythic Tier.
If you’ve got an epic moment like this in your game where you can give a timely BBEG speech, steal this!
So I’ve never run Mythic rules before and maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time figuring out what Mythic Abilities Barzillai has chosen. I know he’s a Heirophant and it seems as though he has chosen the Mythic Spell ability. I can’t find his other ability though.
They don’t seem to be spelled out like they would if they were feats and my experience level with Mythic is really making it difficult to find.
You’ve covered a lot and posed a bunch of questions. I’m gonna do my best to unpack most of it. A lot of this will be justification, interpretation, how I’ve dealt with things as a GM, and how my group has acted/responded. This isn’t a critique of your questions.
At the end of Book 2, an announcement went out throughout the city asking those claiming the title of Silver Ravens to claim rewards done in the interest of Kintargo and thereby Cheliax, its Lord Mayor and the Queen herself. It was a tense moment as the PCs stalled until Barzillai was about to grant the rewards to his own allies (not to be stood up.) A PC appeared in the guise of a Full Plate wearing levitating hero in a Raven Helm and denounced Thrune and condemned him asserting their lack of aligning interests. They made a bit of a fool of him and refused his gifts. The Erinyes in my game is dressed identically and her role was to fly above the crowd and denounce Thrune and all hell’s lapdogs.
“The entire scheme seems designed to target players or perhaps pc's and not the actual audience.”
I would say that a good portion of Chelaxians know what a Devil is and most know that Angelic Elves with pristine skin and divinely blue eyes are indeed not Devils. I would go so far as to say that there are a handful that even know exactly what an Azata is. In any regard, it’s an easy justification.
“Why should the attendees otherwise assume the Azata are supposed to be allied with the Silver Ravens?”
Because the Azata scream “For the Silver Ravens and a free Kintargo!” and “You’re all allies of a psychopath and will die for your loyalty!” I think a few narrative moments and calls to arms mid combat go a long way in solving this.
“If we're assuming the attendees know what an Azata is, does that imply they should know what Unholy Blight is? Cause it seems weird the flying Azata/Silver Raven disguised Erinyes is casting a spell that hurts attendees but not devils, Asmodeans, or some Dottari?”
Yes! Totally. This is a weird one. BUT crazy combat with mass slaughter and testimony being less than perfect, I’m assuming that’s an easy redaction for Thrune.
“What happens when the real Silver Ravens appear and decry the entire mess a charade?”
Crazy right? Who do we believe? Throw an opposed Bluff Check in there and see who is more convincing.
“Assuming the pc's defeat Cizmekris, who unalterably appears as Barzillai - who is now just as "officially" dead as the Silver Ravens are guilty of attacking the dance - How is he issuing any orders at all except by trying to explain why a fake Barzillai was at the dance. And what about the dead bearded devils, etc. who lose their hat of disguises?”
••’As reward for my dedication to our great city, the Lord of Contracts has seen that I return to the world of the living to fulfil my divine obligation as your protector! Listen not to these terrorists and assassins! They aim to unseat the infernal influence that keeps us safe from terrors far greater! I Barzillai Thrune will keep this city safe from the chaos that will destroy all you hold dear!’••
“And the story of the kind-hearted Barzillai vs the heartless Silver Ravens is incongruent with the recent weeks/months of the campaign.”....”Barzillai destroyed the Thrashing Badger, Silver Star and Victocora Estate,”
No one knows that. In my game it was Tiefling Anarchists.
“...he's imposed erratic and draconian Proclamations,...”
All necessary to maintain order!
“...permitted a para-military group to dog-house random citizens,...”
Allies of anarchists that seek to destroy this city!
“...had one of his minions unleash tooth fairies in the Devil's Nursery,...”
Wait. What? That had nothing to do with our Lord Mayor!
“...his dottari have done nothing while the Red Jills and Varl Wex ran amok,...”
Why isn’t Barzillai taking credit for those things in your game? He sure did in mine! And the PCs hated him for it.
“...officially dog-housed random minor criminals,...”
That’s not even a bad thing.
“....crippled the city economically with martial law and onerous bridge taxes...”
All necessary to maintain peace and order. These terrorists cannot be allowed to run free!
“...pointlessly outlawed the city's own order of Hellknights...”
You need to find a justification for that one. In my game the PCs rescued a citizen from doghousing. Barzillai blamed it on The Torrent and considered their act treason.
“The Ravens on the other hand have freed prisoners,...”
You mean “freed criminals?”
“...stopped dog-housing,...”
Barzillai stopped that on his own.
“...dealt with multiple threats that were indiscriminately killing citizens...”
Barzillai should take credit for most of that.
“Barzillai starts the dance in an exceptionally deep hole credibility and attitude-wise.”
Obviously by my answers that wasn’t the case in my game.
“Seems really implausible the Silver Ravens would start killing citizens instead of dottari, devils and Asmodeans.”
In my game, Barzillai is currently battling an Azata on stage as he huffs up. Somehow that Azata can land a hit!
“About the only thing in the AP provided plan that makes sense is that Thrune and his allies' goal is to kill everyone in the Opera House.”
I couldn’t disagree more. He actually needs survivors to share what they saw. As people flee the party, they’re convinced they saw Silver Ravens and Azata attack the party and Barzillai engaged them. Those who survive will learn that a great battle ensued and many citizens were murdered as Barzillai fought the anarchists(and died/was raised by Asmodeus to continue protecting the city.)
Overall, I think you need to be more manipulative when playing Barzillai.
Honestly, a lot of these tactics are in conflict with the whole "false flag" concept they went through a lot of trouble to pull off. And, yes, if no one lives to tell the tale, then you're fine. But if you kill everyone, how are you going to blame it on the Silver Ravens and why bother to use so many hats of disguise on the devils in the first place?
I think the “Summoned Devils don’t appear as Azata” argument is the absolute best reason no Devils present should summon other Devils.
We’re currently between games and they triggered the battle early, but here is how I tweaked the strategy of the battle to have it make sense:
• Barzillai never makes his “sacrifice speech”. Instead, he will give a great speech about his kind plans for Kintargo.
• The Trap is triggered and the Erinyes appears above dressed in Silver Raven fashion. She gives whatever anti-Thrune/kill the Thrune loyalists speech necessary. (At this point there should be hints about what the PCs look like even if they’ve been super diligent.)
• All other “Azata” appear and one bearded devil engages Barzillai’s Major Image in combat.
• Dottari corral the public but make bad choices, fumble with keys, send NPCs to rooms without exits etc.
• Eventually someone will get the doors open. If not, the Dottari are instructed to do so in order to let what’s been seen spread through the city.
• Survivors Sculpt Corpses of Several victims to appear as the terrorist Silver Ravens.
• Barzillai presents corpses the next day, outlaws their supporters, and mourns the death of citizens. This galvanizes the city and crumbles the rebellion before it begins.
From an NPC perspective: Barzillai is throwing a party. Silver Ravens interrupt, denounce Thrune and attack public. Barzillai battles Azata. Dottari tried to help public. Some of the public get away. The next day, Barzillai appears and relays how he saved the city.
It looks to me like that’s a fix. Let me know if you see a hole.
it seems like book 5 would be better served with a piratical combat... heck, bring up the Cheliax bad girls from book 6 of Skull and Shackles. You could team up with the captain fella from book 2 and take them on!
that could be pretty fun!
Great Idea! (Aka: Neither re-hashed nor a bit vanilla plot thread)
You've seriously made me realize that I need to drop Ship Combat in here and probably completely ignore my Black Magga idea altogether!
A battle against a few Chelish Warships would be a great kick off!
BUT, after they succeed in defending against the Warships, Pirates would totally seek to capitalize on the unguarded waters and loot and plunder Kintargo in their infancy.
One of my players has taken a serious liking to Elia Nones and having Captain Sargaeta and Elia act as captains of separate ships sieging the pirate ships plaguing the Seas around the cities is awesome. Damn... you've given me a lot to think about.
(Maybe the ships will eventually be attacked by the Black Magga too ;)
Your group is throwing rocks at a bank robber with hostages.
I think this is a common tactic employed by many players. Simply put: players aren't use to their characters facing consequences. It's not often in a game that characters have to deal with the same battleground throughout the entirety of a campaign. This adventure path has taken any player who has the murder hobo tactic as a default and challenges the living hell out of them.
I have had players quit this campaign because they were too frustrated with the THREAT of consequences.
I wouldn't ease up on them. Torture is objectively evil AF. Murder is objectively evil AF.
Let me share a story from my campaign, it might give you ideas.
Salt Works Story:
The group was staking out the Salt Works and happened to come across a tiefling street vendor named Ryk. He was smarmy and off putting, but he clearly had no love for the current order and had personal acquaintances detained by the guard. When he found out what the group was doing, he did his best to provide them information.
The group sieged the Salt Works rather quietly but, being their first true covert mission, failed to wear masks or anything hiding their identity. As one, they barged into a room where several citizens group members played cards at a table as the members of Crowe's group were toiling away in the adjacent room.
It was utter confusion as the PCs murderous commanded one CCG member and charged the rest. As the "commanded" Citizens group member punches his ally across the face he stumbles back and runs out the door for help screaming for Dottari.
The prisoners knew they had to get out of there before the Dottari showed up and told the PCs to run.
Instead of a chance meeting elsewhere or wishing them good luck, a tiefling PC (We will call him M), tells Crowe and his men the EXACT location of the group's safe house and then turns to the unarmed Chelish Citizens Group and proceeds to murder them with his bare, clawed, hands.
I was dumbfounded, but not too shocked to fail to describe their pleas for help and mercy, nor did I fail to convey the blood that spattered across the walls and covered M as he bathed in his "righteousness".
(Sidenote: This player cried foul when his alignment shifted from CN to CE)
I didn't come down too hard on the players directly though. They got away and had an in character discussion about how things should be done.
Here is where you might get some ideas though: Remember Ryk? Do you wonder why I mentioned him?
The Chelish Citizens Group described M, but the Dottari couldn't find anyone matching that exact description. But the dottari HAD to find the guilty party. They had to find the Tiefling who murdered the CCG.
When word got out that someone was apprehended and would be excruciated, the PCs were relieved and just assumed the dottari were lying. Yet, they showed up that day to witness the "guilty" party being doghoused. Just before they released the doors... one of the players in the group turned to another and asked "Oh sh*t... do you think they arrested Ryk...!?"
If I was running this campaign, there would ABSOLUTELY be wanted posters all over town describing the group as Cultists of Rovagug. This notice would also be a perfect reason for Barzillai to give a public speech describing the murdered dottari as a father, husband, and son, and about how the NEED for Martial Law has never been greater. Honestly, the PCs would probably lose a few dozen supporters.
TLDR: The Silver Ravens have assumed the responsibility of Kintargo's well being. This is a city (country) that rewrites history to paint itself as the victor and champion. This is also a city that is currently held hostage. Anything the Silver Ravens do, for which they are not caught, should be repackaged and sold in Barzillai's favor. It's time for Barzillai to shoot a hostage.
I like the idea RogueRouge. Any rebellion organization would definitely have their share of opposing opinions and growing pains.
As Warped Savant mentioned, I have already sewn the seeds of Barzillai's False Silver Ravens. Surprisingly, the groups encounter with Tayacet Tiora went surprisingly well and they learned of Barzillai's plans from her. She, being on the list of recruits, was able to drop a few of the names of people Barzillai has enlisted. Here are the NPC's I've built or farmed in addition to Tayacet Tiora. (A few of their names might even be from the Heroes mentioned in the opening of Book 4.)
The False Ravens:
Laika Tindalos (CE female halforc Daggerfighter Rogue 5 / Brawler 3): CR 7
Laika was born to a remote tribe of orcs in Ustalav, only to be sold into slavery by her lover. From there she never trusted the male sex. As a slave, she was funneled through the trade and ultimately ended up in Vyre fighting in their bloodsport pits. She won her freedom in the city of masks and since fled to Kintargo. There she quickly gathered like minded half orcs forming The Jollytime Girls. She is honored to ally with Ursekk.
Knowledge Local
DC 20 Laika was a slave in Vyre who earned her freedom on The Days of Wrath.
DC 25 She was originally from a remote tribe of orcs in Ustalav but was sold into slavery.
DC 30 She was sold into slavery by her lover. She has formed a small gang of half-orc women known as The Jollytime Girls.
DC 35 She has a professional fascination with Ursekk
Thorethela “Winterleaf” (CE female noble drow elf Magus Hexcrafter 9): CR 9
Thorethela was high born drow of the Noble Vinthe'rasa family. She saw herself as the future scion to her line and had already made moves to ensure this, including murdering her older sister. When tasked with overseeing her family's trafficking of human slaves and potential host offerings through the surface nation of Nidal, she jumped at the chance. Yet, her destiny crumbled apart after the abduction of one of the Korvosian nobility. Her group was trailed and confronted by members of the Order of the Torrent including a young Malicus Marro. Shamed, Thorethela never returned home. She knew of her impending disgrace and what it meant for her future. It wasn't long before she heard of her mother's displeasure. Her matron saw Thorethela as a failure unable to forsee such an obvious loose end. As expected, Thorethela was removed from her line. She went into hiding from her past and has since blamed Malicus Marro. Once word reached her of the disgrace of the Order of the Torrent and Paralictor Maro, Thorethela knew that he was no longer protected by the Chelaxian Crown and she could finally have her revenge. She has travelled to Kintargo to see it exacted. Unfortunately, she arrived after Maro had been released and played no part in his death. She felt as though her revenge would go unsatiated until she learned that Maro had two sons. After learning this, she has settled on the ability to end his lineage as a suitable alternative. (Maro is the father of 2 PCs)
Knowledge Local:
DC 20 Thorethala arrived in Cheliax from Nidal a short time ago and was angered to hear that Malicus Maro was arrested, released, and has since died.
DC 25 She had a longstanding vendetta against Maro for interfering with business and has felt disgraced since.
DC 30 Maro disgraced her human trafficking organization by freeing a Korvosian noble who she intended to ransom.
DC 35 She isn't originally from Nidal, but her origins and lineage are a complete mystery that only she knows.
DC 40 She has heard that Maro had a son capable of carrying on his lineage and has seen that ending his lineage is a suitable alternative to killing Maro personally.
DC 50 Thorethala is a drow of noble origins seeking to earn her way back into her family's grace.
Tividar Sarini (NE male human Bard 4/Cleric of Asmodeous 3): CR 6
Tividar Sarini is a Kintargo native and eldest son of the Sarini Family. He grew up with one foot in the church and the other in the city's aristocracy. After traveling throughout Cheliax as a student, he eagerly returned home when word reached him of Thrune's growing control of Kintargo. Today, he sees the moves necessary to catapult his family into the history books by reclaiming the Archduchy of Ravounel after it was lost in the civil war.
Tividar is a sniveling pretty boy who thinks the world owes him more than he has been given. He berates “Doctore” and carries a whip as a reminder of who is in charge.
Knowledge Local
DC 15 Tividar Sarini is the eldest son of the Sarini Family and follows in his family's passion for the arts.
DC 20 He only recently returned home and after Barzillai was placed in control of the city.
DC 25 Tividar grew up with one foot in the Theatre and one foot in the Temple.
DC 30 He slums it by frequenting small theaters and brothels in Jarvis End and isnt known to ever be without “Doctore”
DC 35 Tividar has made it clear that he sees this new opportunity to raise his family back to where it once was as the First Archduchy of Ravounel under HIM Queen Abrogail II.
Ursekk “Doctore” (LE male half orc Monk 10): CR 9
Ursekk's size and strength made him a prize for Chelish slavers. He is currently owned by the Sarini family but has earned a level of respect that defines him as a slave in only the most loosest of senses. Lady Urora Sarini has grown carnally fond of him beyond the slave-master relationship. She often employs him in her erotic Theatre of the Real events which are often followed by erotic afterparties with her noble friends.
Although he is always in his manacles, they do very little to inhibit his abilities.
Knowledge Local
DC 20 Ursekk is a Sarini slave used in live combat and theatre of the real.
DC 25 The manacles he wears are more for exposition than confinement. He is quite capable without them.
DC 30 His role at the Sarini after parties has become a spectacle for much of the upperclass with sadistic and erotic tastes.
DC 40 Urora Sarini is particularly fond of him.
I have yet to include Tombus Regegious in the group, but rest assured he will be throwing in with them VERY soon.
Another idea:
Foreshadowing and Spoilers:
I plan to drop in a bit of Vampire shenanigans. Having the fetchling Flowershop Crew foreshadow Aluceda and her role in book 4 is going to be fun. Years ago, we abandoned CoT and my paladin was turned into a Vampire. Having him return as a Blackguard agent Aluceda's and The Umbral Court should be fun. Not knowing who the Silver Ravens are, his goal is to draw them out into a confrontation. He wants them to find him. Being that The Tooth and Nail (and Old Kintargo in general) is a hotbed for malcontents, it only makes sense that he would target someone there. Luckily for him, the group and Setrona put poor Insome in charge of the Sweet Tooth (which in my campaign is a neighbor to the Tooth and Nail.)
Sadly, poor Insome will be waiting for the PCs on their next visit. Then, my goal is to have a bit of Cat and Mouse with the old PC and his fetchling group in the Shadows of Old Kintargo.
Did anyone make a list for the masquerade with guest and what masks they are wearing, and wouldn't mind sharing it? We're running it tomorrow and my imagination has dried up...
That's something I will be doing for our masquerade game.
I plan to make a randomizer similar to this.
D10 Roll 1 GENERAL ADJECTIVES
1: Translucent
2: Extravagant
3: Colorful
4: Pure Black
5: Pure Red
6: Pure Gold
7: Antique
8: Broken (Perhaps intentionally)
9: Dull
10: Hastily Made
D10 Roll 2: KEY DETAIL DESCRIPTORS
1: Eye-Less
2: Jaw-Less
3: Metal fasteners (Rivets, Buckles, Bolts, etc.)
4: Gem Encrusted (Could be real or fake)
5: Gold Leaf
6: Long Nosed
7: Crying
8: Laughing
9: Scaled
10: Roughly Textured
D10 Roll 3: NOUNS
1: Hound/Wolf
2: Devil
3: God/Goddess (refined based on character)
4: Porcelain Doll
5: Butterfly/Moth
6: Rare Magical Beast (Manticore, Chimera, etc.)
7: Troll/Ogre
8: Raven
9: Hero of Legend (PC from a past AP?)
10: Dragon
D10 Roll 4: MATERIAL
1: Paper Mache
2: Wood
3: Leather
4: Rare Metal
5: Feathers
6: Polished Stone
7: Leaves and Twigs
8: Clay
9: Textile
10: Unknown (But it looks a LOT like flesh)
Having him be an innate enemy of the PCs isn’t exactly what this AP is all about. He’s an enemy of the people and the PCs make him their enemy. One of the greatest things about this AP is how it has flipped the script in many ways. Obviously this is entirely up to you and your group, but having him interact with the PCs prior to the adventure might weaken the PCs rise to to power.
So I know my group pretty well and it’s not very hard for me to anticipate their approach to the scene in which Barzillai publicly gives them gifts.
Bottom line: they aren’t going to reveal their identities or show up in disguises even if the rewards were worth 10,000 gp each.
So I’m envisioning a scene where Barzillai stands on the footsteps of the Opera House with goods and essentially gets “stood up.” I know the AP mentions Tayacet being willing to step in but for now, that also seems like a stretch. (They’re entertaining the idea of making her disappear with one of Sargaeta’s favors.)
So on to the question, how would you GM this scenario?
I’m thinking of having Barzillai turn this into an opportunity to further disguise his true intent perhaps with a speech like this:
“And here we stand, alone. ::solemn pause:: Let it be known that on this day, Thrune stands WITH the Silver Ravens as allies and commiserers, yet stripped of a way to reward citizens so in tune with the beating heart ::foreshadowing tap to the breastplate:: of our noble city.
:: Barzillai motions to guards that open chests revealing gifts::
I have no doubt these secret citizens have great works still ahead of them. Undoubtedly they may again be of service to our government. Perhaps on that day, these hidden individuals will have the courage to step into the light! Until then, we must suppose that Thrune’s thanks are reward enough. Please continue to work to ensure, as I do, this grand city’s safety and its proud legacy.”
I’m sure random citizens might just claim to be Silver Ravens for the rewards. But, maybe Barzillai would have another group on his payroll that steps in to accept the gifts, perhaps led by Tombus Regegius. (This scenario could easily pit the PCs against an elite group of pro Thrunies)
rogurouge, I am surprised I never posted this.
Personally, not only did I have trouble understanding Odds and Evens (perhaps because it was too simple) but I couldn't fathom why anyone would even play the game. I actually used Odds and Evens as backdrop in a seedy gambling hall the PCs visited when making contact with Giveni Henge.
I replaced the game with a game I named Blackfinger (obviously named after Norgorber). Here are the rules:
Blackfinger.
Players agree stakes.
In the most mundane games, even amounts of currency are paid by all players. However, it is not unheard of for players of “Blackfinger” to wager, the lives of loved ones, limbs, or even higher stakes.
Determine the initial rolling order.
Each player rolls one die; play starts to the left of the person with the lowest roll.
Each player, in turn, rolls four dice up to three times building whats called “A Reputation.”
The lead player for the round determines how many times the other players may roll by the number of times he or she rolls the dice. The other players may roll fewer times than the lead player, but not more times. The player may keep any number of dice rolled.
The results are ranked, high to low, according to the following system:
A roll of 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 is called “Blackfinger,” from which the game takes its name.
A roll of sets, ranked downward from 6-6-6-6 to 4-4-2-1. Suits are ranked in descending order. Note that sets of 3s, 2s, and 1s have no value. (Example 4-4-4-2 beats 6-6-2-1.)
Order of suits: 4-3-2-1, 6-6-6-6, 5-5-5-5, 4-4-4-4, 6-6-6-#, 5-5-5-#, 4-4-4-#, 6-6-#-#, 5-5-#-#, 4-4-#-#
Any combination, other than “Blackfinger,” without at least a scoring pair is referred to as “Filth.” These are all considered the lowest possible “Reputation”.
If “Blackfinger” is rolled by any player, all other players re-ante and play continues as normal until all players build a “Reputation”.
Additional rolls of “Blackfinger” during a round further increase the stakes.
(It is possible for Player 1 to roll “Blackfinger” (causing all other players to re-ante) and then Player 2 to roll “Blackfinger” causing all other players (including Player 1) to re-ante.
If there is a tie, rounds are played between the winning players until one person wins.
Paying Up: The lowest ranking set, or all “Filth”, pay into the pot.
Pass the dice to the player next to the lead roller.
Did anyone else's player have a really hard time with the Lucky Bones? The first floor was mostly fine, but the lower floor alternated between putting my players to sleep and nearly killing them outright.
For one, I've never met a single player that likes unexpected underwater combat. Sure, with a few party builds it won't be an issue, but the swim checks made the skum fights drag on forever, and my players almost TPKed with the Shell Sentinels. I get making a challenge, but my players almost walked out of the room when their knowledge checks revealed DR/bludgeoning after they explicitly prepared piercing weapons to account for underwater penalties. My players aren't bad in combat, but the smuggler's tunnels had them all checked out until I shifted a few things around and made it slightly easier to drain the tunnels.
It's a little late now, but I'm curious what other people did to make this less of a slog?
You just brought up a really big point of note. I think I am going to remove the DR the Shell sentinels have if my group doesn't want to purchase Freedom of Movement Scrolls. My group is taking their time with the Lucky Bones, that is: after they thought playing Lorelu's game was dumb and forced a combat in which she threw two of them into the lap of Pharasma. I will post a follow up after they move into the LB further.
I agree with Zimmerwald1915. Give the control to the group.
If you’re asking for tips regarding how to go about the upkeep phase from a GMs standpoint above and beyond what was stated, I can give you something that I posted elsewhere on the boards. First off, these are my tweaks, they may not work for everyone. My goal in making these changes was to make the Upkeep phase as quick as possible so the group could get back to role playing. (I came from running a Kingmaker game where upkeeps could last a very long time.)
Upkeep:
At the (START) of the week:
This will run very much the same.
1.Supporter Attrition
2. Notoriety Maximum
3. Treasury Shortage
4. Increase Rank
5. Deposits and Withdrawals
6. (NEW) Receive all Team Sheets spent in previous week
7. (NEW) Upgrade Teams: see below.
Event:
This is rolled in secret and determines the event for the (NEW: upcoming) week. (As the GM, I can describe this Event the moment it happens, over the course of the week, or as a result of the PCs actions.)
Activity:
(NEW: This phase lasts for the remainder of the week. When the PCs want to activate a team, the players will simply hand the Team Sheet to the GM. At the end of the week, before the Upkeep Phase begins again, any number of Actions that weren't used during the week can be spent on actions that do not require a team.
This allows for the players and their rebellion to respond in real time without having to wait a week to have more Rebellion Actions.
New Action Rules:
Upgrade Team. At the beginning of the week, any team can immediately be turned in to the GM to use the Upgrade Team action.
Lie Low. At the end of the week remaining Actions can be used to Lie Low. For each action spent Lying Low, reduce the Silver Ravens Notoriety Score by 1
Interesting. My feeling was that Varl Wex has to have been doing this unnoticed for quite some time to have the number of levels that the AP gives him. There's just not enough murders to justify those levels as class levels otherwise. Hence why I just opted out of the level of Expert.
** spoiler omitted **
Any questionably moral administration that seeks to control a populace will use immoral methods to do so. LE is manipulative and manipulating an individual to further tighten their grip is very LE.
Motives:
If rumors of the PCs rebellion have begun, it is quite likely the 'current administration' would seek to subvert their actions. There is no better way to do so than put their actions under a microscope and twist their intentions. Like Razcar said, associating Vex with the movement is a good way to do this.
Alternatively, slowing the pace of the rebellion could be motive enough. But to take that further, the administration didn't give him the dagger expecting the PCs to beat him. (The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.) Undeniably, the government directly going after an organization that has the well-being of the populace in mind is a dangerous endeavor in regards to civil tranquility.
It's likely that the government may see Vex as a tool to slow down or put an end to the group opposing the government. If Vex wins, then great, the government knows where he lives and can go in and kill Vex once he dispatches the PCs. This would be quite the heroic act from the government. On the other hand, if the PCs kill Vex they have just adopted a weapon that will attempt to control them and will undoubtedly tear them apart from the inside.
The more I type this out, the more I LOVE having the dagger come from the government instead of having Vex stumble upon it at some underground street vendor, so THANK YOU for bringing this topic up.
In my campaign, ran about 4 years ago, I justified his lack of actions in a bit of a complex way.
Spoiler:
First of all, I wanted to string the campaign together in a much more fluid way and introduced (a non-wererat) Gaetane as a recurring villain. He was a member of an attempted assassination. He was present at the siege of Drelev. Finally, he was the archer of Pitax at the Rushlight. So when the PCs arrived, they immediately warned everyone of Gaetane's past. They told Irrovetti that although he would not come to harm during the festival, when the festivities ended, he was once again considered an enemy BUT the PCs expressed that during the festival they wouldn't attempt to kill him.
I considered Irovetti's ongoing strife with Mivon and how the other nations would view him just attacking another settlement. Mivon would surely side with the PCs kingdom and it would spell out his demise. So when the PCs threatened Gaetane, Irrovetti saw his opportunity. After the archer competition, Gaetane was mysteriously missing.
What had happened was that Irrovetti called him into his tent and promised him wealth beyond what he was already due. Irrovetti slit Gaetane's throat and removed his head.
Once the PCs won the tournament, a great feast was held. Irrovettis table was served first (surprisingly I still have the speech written, so here it is:)
Write up that revealed Irovetti as an Enemy from my campaign wrote:
Servers bearing silver domed platters enter the coliseum. The first of which goes to King Castruccio Irrovetti. The server removes the lid and a breath of steam exhales from under the lid.
Insolent cur!
::Kicks the table over to the amazement of all watching as Gaetane's head rolls from the platter of liver with a whole apple in his mouth::
How dare you Talistrynians come to MY kingdom under an invitation of peace and prosperity and let your petty gripes get the best of you!?
You were given one order upon arrival. The bitter hate you have for my kinsman was to be abated while on these grounds. You were to act in a peaceful and noble manner. I GRACEOUSLY offered to extradite this individual to your lands to face punishment for his crimes and yet you refused my kindly act of peace. After refusing this gesture, I was even told by the Councilor of Foreign Affairs of Talistryn, Connor Shannow “ I give you my word, no harm will come to Gaetane Fallvarrow until the Rushlight is over, but I give you my word he will die.”
Has the sun set on the sixth day? Has the Rushlight yet concluded?!
Our final day of peace and celebration has been salted by your disgusting acts and lack of brotherhood.
You have your awards, I am a KING and, UNLIKE YOU, I will keep my word and grant the petty monetary prize to the winners of the Rushlight Festival. But ALL witnesses shall remember: the dishonorable killing of one of my kinsmen on grounds held sacred and peaceful for the past 11 years are intolerable and there will be consequences.
You have disgraced the peace treaty of The Rushlight Tournament,
You have disgraced my Kingdom as well as ALL the River Kingdoms.
You have, MOST OF ALL, shown the true colors of your creed and homeland.
You have 1 hour to be beyond the boundary of MY Kingdom. YOU have acted in a MOST dishonorable way and YOU have been the aggressors. If this is the way you deal with your neighbors, you are UNFIT TO RULE. Let all present at the Rushlight, witness that YOU have started the war that will be at your door!
The PCs were broadside. The paladin in the group shook his head and just said "Wow, he really got the best of us." It was one of my more proud GMing moments and it really transitioned all the hate from Gaetane right to Irovetti. Now, don't be mistaken, Irovetti resurrected Gaetane... but it couldn't have gone better and the PCs loved both the vicotories they eventually had.
So, what you CAN do. Switch my speech somehow. Give Irovetti reason to look noble but betrayed by the PCs. Perhaps rumors rise during the fest of someone stealing something from the King. Perhaps then Irovetti calls them into his tent and has a meeting with them and once he is "friendly and convinced" he shares some drink and stories with them. Perhaps the item is found on the PCs during the festival....
Here is the thing: Figure out what Irovetti wants, then find a way for him to get it as a byproduct of justified actions witnessed by the entirety of the River Kingdoms.
Irovetti wants to expand his borders. In fact, Irovetti probably wants to be the first King of United River Kingdoms. His problem, again, is his ongoing war with Mivon. Luckily a new and seemingly weak Kingdom has just arose. If he was to bring that Kingdom into his fold, he could easily topple Mivon and then the rest of the River Kingdoms would bend the knee or fall. He just needs to justify taking their kingdom...
"My dear cursed boy, you were born with the taint of the Hells visible upon your skin. Don't hide them! You must brandish these marks as a sign of our Queen's unrelenting desire to see her people prosper and thrive. Only in The Master of Contract's embrace can you seek refuge. Only through the unparalleled power of Asmodeous himself can you seek to ensure your soul is anything but a dying ember of a raging conflagration. By dedicating your life to Asmodeous, you are guaranteeing an eternity that no other deity would provide."
BoH - I think the OP was suggesting that the Tiefling Arcanist take over leadership. Your post seems to suggest that you may be reading the opposite.
Also: dot!
You're right after a reread I was definitely under the wrong impression.
Meraki wrote:
Same reason that most people living in crappy circumstances don't pick up and move somewhere else, I'd imagine: lack of money/resources. You'd have to travel pretty far from Kintargo to leave Cheliax*; it'd be a really long journey, and one that's probably not possible for your average commoner (doubly so for those who are disadvantaged to begin with). And travel can be especially risky in Golarion...all those bandits and monsters. Many of them probably figure they're better off with the devil they know, if you'll excuse the pun.
You're absolutely right, especially if the stories they've heard reinforce the potential threats. This also legitimizes any non-commoner tiefling still in the city. My point was that regardless of what happened before Barziali's rise, he is more than likely using the Tiefling population as a scapegoat. The populace needs someone to blame and as long as it's not him, he doesn't care.
Readdressing the OP, I have found that the games with the most intraparty conflict (read: conflict not PvP) are the most interesting. If some of the tieflings of the Devil's Nursery are just as Xenophobic and bigoted as those who oppress them, the world becomes more three dimensional. It gives the players more than "I am doing this because it is the clearly right choice."
Spoiler:
This makes his actions on the Night of Ashes and the Murders in The Devil's Nursery all the more understandable. If you want to justify Martial Law and get a population behind you then you need a bad guy. What better bad guy than the minority the population has been predisposed to hate?
In the game I am running, I have hinted that the Tiefling population is clearly being politically abused and they obviously have no champion. As written, their voice, Strea, was arrested late on the night of ashes but was also accused of orchestrating the burnings. Since then, the Red Jills have donned the mantle of protectors and vigilantes willing to rob and murder those standing against them. In fact, the cult of Scarplume is posing as an Erinyes who has hollow promises of the rise of a powerful tiefling community taken by force.
Ya know I am rewriting the first paragraph of this post because something dawned on me. Why don't tieflings just leave The Nursery and go off to another civilization? Surely being one of the most despised races in all of Cheliax would make you want to leave Cheliax right? After all, the decision is to choose to be despised under an oppressive monarchy or be despised in a freer culture.
That is, unless Thrune has lied to them through redacted histories and revisionism. It's highly likely that members of the Tiefling culture are under the (possibly correct) impression that they would be killed on site if they left the safety of Kintargo. This has more than likely created a sort of Stockholm Syndrome for the members of the Tiefling race and also granted a scapegoat for the rest of the city. Undoubtedly, tales of these on-site killings are used as propaganda to make the outside world even more terrifying. Lets be honest, these stories probably include aasimar warriors of some mistaken and vengeful god.
I think you've got yourself quite a series of civil rights encounters coming. This could be a lot of fun. I would venture to say that a large faction of The Devil's Nursery would greet the aasimar with a great deal of suspicion. It would probably divide the entire community and I wouldn't hesitate to include a group that is downright in opposition to having an aasimar in The Nursery. It would create quite the moral conundrum for her to serve a people that regard her as an outsider (small 'O') out of fear and it might necessitate the usage of her alternate persona.
As a reflection of reality, it's quite uncommon for the leader of a community of people to not be a member of that group. I couldn't imagine being a member of a suppressed people, purposefully kept destitute, and looked down on as a curse, who then chooses a member of another group to better my interests. That is, I couldn't see it come about out of anything more than necessity.
In the end, it might be a very bitter sweet victory for your PC to be faced with the decision of finally empowering the united Nursery under a tiefling or leading a fractured community to an ultimately more beneficial ending.
I'm only a few sessions into running book one but I wanted to start to introduce the Poisoned Pen. What better way than to have his first poem be his namesake?!
Let me know what you think of these and please add some of yours. I am not the world's greatest poet so keep that in mind. Thoughts and feedback welcome.
The Poisoned Pen
A twist of the tip by candle light
Firm grip, knuckles tight
Slowly the pulp rips, starting to fight
This, my poisoned pen
Iron fluid drowns the page
Fears abound 'n rattled cage
Easing words then formed to rage
This, my poisoned pen
Stop the thought!
But the ink still bleeds
Stop the thought!
But the page still feeds
Burn the thoughts to turn them numb
But iron ink stains the shaking thumb
This, a sign of what's to come
This, my poisoned pen.
A Second Tide Rose
Red cast upon a shimmering side.
And those jagged knives
Those jagged knives break the tide
"Stand Firm." said those who Chose.
She'll see our claim yet grows.
Blackened boots from a golden throne
In fear, aggressively cast upon silver stone.
Red come the cries
and these Echoes slowly rise
Red cast upon a simmering side.
And those hidden knives
Those hidden knives break the tide
"Stand Firm." said the Rose.
She'll see our claim yet grows.
One thing that I plan on doing... (We just cleared the Fair Fortune Livery so this will come up sooner than later) is allowing the PCs to activate a team almost immediately.
My group strongly disliked the way the Kingdom Building mechanic halted Kingmaker. Some players found it fun and interesting but I also had some players leave the table when the book keeping came up. All players felt like there were two separate games going on and I really didn't like that at all.
So here is how I plan to have this bog down time a bit less and keep things three dimensional: (Everything NEW is in parenthesis)
Upkeep:
At the (START) of the week:
This will run very much the same.
1.Supporter Attrition
2. Notoriety Maximum
3. Treasury Shortage
4. Increase Rank
5. Deposits and Withdrawals
6. (NEW) Receive all Team Sheets spent in previous week
7. (NEW) Upgrade Teams: see below.
Activity:
(NEW: Through the course of the coming week, when the PCs want to activate a team, the players will simply hand the Team Sheet to the GM. At the end of the week, before the Upkeep Phase begins again, any number of Actions that weren't used during the week can be spent on actions that do not require a team.
New Action Rules:
Upgrade Team. At the beginning of the week, any team can immediately be turned in to the GM to use the Upgrade Team action.
Lie Low. At the end of the week remaining Actions can be used to Lie Low. For each action spent Lying Low, reduce the Silver Ravens Notoriety Score by 1.)
Event:
This is rolled in secret and determines the event for the (NEW: upcoming) week. (As the GM, I can describe this Event the moment it happens, over the course of the week, or as a result of the PCs actions.)
After writing it out, it looks better like this:
Upkeep:
At the (START) of the week:
This will run very much the same.
1.Supporter Attrition
2. Notoriety Maximum
3. Treasury Shortage
4. Increase Rank
5. Deposits and Withdrawals
6. (NEW) Receive all Team Sheets spent in previous week
7. (NEW) Upgrade Teams: see below.
Event:
This is rolled in secret and determines the event for the (NEW: upcoming) week. (As the GM, I can describe this Event the moment it happens, over the course of the week, or as a result of the PCs actions.)
Activity:
(NEW: This phase lasts for the remainder of the week. When the PCs want to activate a team, the players will simply hand the Team Sheet to the GM. At the end of the week, before the Upkeep Phase begins again, any number of Actions that weren't used during the week can be spent on actions that do not require a team.
This allows for the players and their rebellion to respond in real time without having to wait a week to have more Rebellion Actions.
New Action Rules:
Upgrade Team. At the beginning of the week, any team can immediately be turned in to the GM to use the Upgrade Team action.
Lie Low. At the end of the week remaining Actions can be used to Lie Low. For each action spent Lying Low, reduce the Silver Ravens Notoriety Score by 1.)
I don't know if it's necessary that the PCs have the option to do something in regards to these events as they should only paint the picture of what's going on in the background of Kintargo.
10. Mer'dirain Hethanos, an up and coming musician is a frequent mid evening act at the Three Legged Devil. It's no secret that he has recently earned the patronage of Archbaroness Melodia Delronge. Just as he began to sing the chorus of "All's Pride of Midnight Tide," a rather inspiring ballad of when the Chelish navy sailed against the pirates of the Shackles, hecklers began throwing horse manure at him. He moved to flee the stage but someone had also Greased the stage causing him to slip and break his lute in two. Disgusted, Archbaroness Melodia Delronge left her balcony in a huff.
It's obvious the choice of horse manure wasn't lost on her.
[Reduce Danger, Successful Protest: Corruption or Society.]
11. The dottari have been recently put to the task of flipping several blocks in Redroof. They're going house to house searching each building destroying much of what little those poor folk have. If they catch you with anything suspicious, they'll throw your belongings in the street. You can see the fires that are burning "contraband" from across the city.
[Inquisition, Low Morale]
12. An ever growing crowd gasps at a horrific scene in the marketplace. A familiar face, (insert Supporter name here), hangs lifeless from a flag pole. The supporter is tarred and feathered in silver feathers. Later, a familiar friend gives you a note and a scroll case.
"My dears, clearly you need to tighten your ship. You can't have friends like (Supporter) traipsing around my home selling your documents to whomever gives them a purse. Perhaps you should take what you do more seriously. This one's on me."
The note isn't signed but there is a small sketch of a lizard at the bottom meaning this 'favor' could have only come from the Newt.
Inside the case are documents and correspondence belonging to the Silver Ravens.
So I saw this several days, maybe a week, ago and began brainstorming. I could only really come up with one, so I decided to wait to post. It slipped into the back of my mind.
That is, until today.
The late great Alan Rickman as the voice of Vendalfek the fairy dragon.
After running a total of 15 characters spread out amongst four players, my 5 year long Kingmaker campaign has finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel. My group is almost halfway through book six.
This campaign has been a wild ride to say the least. So, as a final send off to my group, I have created portraits for each of their characters.
Check out my deviant art page below and let me know what you think!
We are all speaking the same language and hoping for similar results.
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
In your model, you are hoping to maintain a power hungry player and change that players style over many years by gradually reducing the stats of the character. This takes a more experienced GM to do because it necessitates a lot of on the fly application of more challenging scenarios and opponents. This is the only method to use when you are playing with a uncompromising group that you don't want to stop playing with.
What others are suggesting is a complete overhaul of the method of playing. One that will be easier for a new GM. Like jumping into a pool, it might be shocking at first but it gets more comfortable quicker. Using this method requires a tighter knit group that is willing to trust that the game will be fun as long as they are playing with friends.
If the OP sets the parameters of the game, the problem players will know right away that he isn't a pushover like the last GM. If those players whine and pout about not being über leet and complain until they get their way, what have they learned?
In any case, if the problem players continue to complain and try to take advantage of each other, they really aren't friends or people you want to play with anyway.
It sounds like you are ready for the next step in your gamer-life.
I remember back in 2nd, playing with two friends that showed up with characters that were "pre-rolled" both had unbelievable stats. Neither wanted to reroll their character claiming "but I rolled SO well! You can't make me reroll that!"
That was the last time I ever played with them. I realized we wanted two different things out of our game. I wanted to be challenged, and they wanted a power trip. Sometimes it's hard to encourage a change in play styles, and most of the time a person has to grow out of it on their own.
If they are friends, remain friends but you don't have to play with them now. If you really do want to play with them, then simply tell them when they run the game they can set the parameters. If they aren't friends, then you now know what you want out of an RPG.
I have a current player that took so much responsibility away from me when he joined my group. I love it. I use to think it was the gms job to describe everything.
Now my players describe their actions. Not just "I attack the orc" but "After dodging the orcs incoming mace by ducking, I spin to regain an advantage while cutting at the orcs leg to limit his movement. Then using the momentum of the spin I jump up in the air and stab down into his battered cuirass."
If it's extremely well told, that player earns a gold coin that can be traded in for a bonus to d20 rolls.
Poor choice of words on my part. My apologies. There is no 'sightless' CONDITION per se as it isn't quantified or defined. Therefore nothing to point to specifically.
That said, after considerable time in the SRD looking at cases of sightless as a creature trait or in the creature description, the conclusion I can draw is the intent of sightless is a creature that can't perceive the world visually as a normal condition (that last part is key so it doesn't get confused with blindness).
This is the flaw in your argument. You shouldn't define a word and give it an in game mechanic if there isn't one. English is laden with homonyms. The definition of Sightless is NOT "an innate inability to see". It is simply "unable to see". A creature that has been blinded is now unable to see. A blinded creature is now sightless. Keep in mind, except for and prior to one creature: the sea anemone in Bestiary 3, there is no in game definition for sightless. There is no link on the PRD. Thus, we must go to Webster and define it and refrain from applying an In Game condition to it.
Keeping it as simple as possible is the key to this debate.
Sightless creatures: creatures who are unable to see.
All of the rods and cones talk is unnecessarily complicating the entire thing.
I would let them run a shop. I think it could really open up a lot of cool role playing encounters and adventure hooks.
Outlandish taxes
Mob activity/ protection racket / shakedowns
Theft
Mold infestation / remodeling / MOVE THAT BUS!
NPC employee problems.
City politics and intrigue
Rival shops
And let them sell items at 100%. I would actually let them sell items occasionally too!
(Of course you have to then balance this with reduce loot, the cost of running a business, taxes etc.) Use the shop as a plot device. If your players really want this, then give it to them. They will talk about it for years. So very rarely do you have characters drop such a powerful hook in the lap of the GM.
@Bornofhate, you writing that you didn't write anything derogatory isn't true at all. Your initial response is using rhetoric implying I'm unappreciative of the efforts he puts in. That isn't an issue at all, but rather I made it clear about our arguments. I don't need your analysis about being more considerate in the least, and can assure you I am one of the most patient and considerate people myself, and people I know, know. You can take that as you will. The rest of what you wrote isn't worth my time responding to, because it's all you with this position that I am something I'm not, and I'm expression some position that I'm not, as if I'm unaware of those things. So please, stop assuming things of others, and please stop using the forums to lecture people like you are toward myself.
@Jlighter, THANK YOU! Yes, as stated I spiced up what I wrote for dramatic effect in order to convey my frustrations. I don't necessarily feel I need to censor that, but rather others should have self control not to be rude on the forums.
I wrote questions about using spells in relation to awareness that they've been cast on you (Will saves and stuff). If anyone could give me insight on that, I would appreciate it. It was something interesting we got into, and none of us were absolutely sure about.
he is all we got, and he actually tolerates being dumped on really well. He is stubborn and wrong with so much, and it's mainly to blame with him playing 3.5 incorrectly for all his life (and how he keeps referring to incorrect 3.5 rules, when we're playing pathfinder.)
Wow. Have a little patience.
If you know the game so well then take the reins. Don't come to the community and crap on your GM expecting us to have your back. There are two sides to EVERY story and for every issue you claim s/he has interpreted incorrectly, I am sure you have the same in spades. I strongly dislike players who attempt to correct my every adjudication when I am behind the screen. (Especially when they refuse to reciprocate by GMing them-self.)
If you think it is easy to build a campaign full of challenges, plot arcs, monsters, puzzles and npcs from session to session, you are dead wrong. Put yourself in his/her shoes. This person spends HOURS of prep per game session to ensure you are having a good time. Try and show him/her an iota of respect. "All we got..." Doesn't cut it.
Dude, you better be the most prepped lore-anal continuity-expert GM in the history of table top gaming.
LOL.
Never thought about how much I appreciate the side tracking conversations at the table, if only to prep what is gonna happen next, before you said that.
If role playing games have taught me anything, it's the ability to talk and listen while thinking about something else at the same time.
You either need to find another group of people to play with, or stop taking it so seriously. People have real lives, people might miss a game, people might not have the time to practice gaming.
This is a game not a job (for most). Unless you start paying your players to play a game, expect this to get thrown back in your face under the assumption that it's a joke.
Sure, I can see using it to rid himself of some attached stirges. He could also use one of his spells, or insect plague.
In any case, regarding the OP's overall problem: I would suggest playing a character for a while and have one of your other players take the reins. For now it seems as though you need to familiarize yourself with some more of the rules and your players are REALLY taking advantage of that. A game like this easily becomes "players vs GM" and completely ruins the spirit of the game. Most people play with friends so it's kinda hard to recommend not playing with these knuckleheads, if you could I would.
New players need a group that helps to learn the rules, regardless of what side of the screen the new player sits on.
If players start a battle of 'us vs the GM' just remind them that the spirit of the game is teamwork. It's far too easy for the GM to win that battle anyway.
Fort Battle from The Last of the Mohicans soundtrack. It's an amazing soundtrack through and through and you won't be disappointed with the purchase but the name of the song says it all.
