Roy Greenhilt

Blue Star's page

1,068 posts. Alias of Kais86.


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I like to call Evil Eye as 'The Stink Eye', because it amuses me, but also because it's not actually evil.


Ask him what he wants to do and if it's reasonable, let him do it.


More skill points, I'd say 6 is fine.

All their saves should be good.

They should be able to pick a number of skills to be class skills, like Int bonus+4.

Bravery is garbage, toss it completely, give them something else in exchange, like being able to move and make an additional attack or higher movement speed.

Armor Training 3 should grant DR/magic. Armor Training 4 should grant DR/Adamantine and magic. Armor mastery should grant DR/-. These should probably be equal to the AC provided by your armor.

Feats need to be condensed. Badly.

Fighters should be able to swap out their combat feats a number of times a day equal to 1/2 their fighter level.

Armor check penalties should be based on armor category, not arbitrarily tacked on, and even then they shouldn't be so high. I'd say, ACP 1 for light armor, 2 for medium, and 3 or 4 for heavy. Especially since the difference between a master and everyone else is apparently 5 skill ranks, according to the master craftsman feat.

Armor also shouldn't reduce your movement, except by weight.


I still think they shouldn't be feats, but new combat options.


If I'm playing a human inquisitor I use it for spells, but otherwise, yeah, skill points. Even my ninja!


LoreKeeper wrote:
Cpt.Caine wrote:

Well, after reading through this discussion and the revised Brawler, I think this class is nothing more than a trap.

For all of reasons described throughout the pages of this discussion. Just another failed attempt at reworking a failed core class. I also don't see any desire from the designers (all I see are excuses on why the Brawler can't have this or that feature to help overcome huge mechanical flaws with the class) to fix the problems with an archetype that doesn't rely on weapons or armor.

hmmm... I don't think that is a fair assessment. The brawler is a very strong front-line fighter. She's got good DPR and a fair amount of on-the-fly adaptability. Her job is not to fly or outwit a cyborg; her job is to hit people in the face with her body really well. And she does that admirably. She can definitely play in the same DPR league as the other pure non-magic martial classes. As other similar classes, she needs to rely on items and allies for exotic things (such as flying).

If I would issue a complaint against the brawler, it is that she's very un-iconic. There's not much that stands out. (Well, that is a lie, once Knockout and Awesome Blow become available, then very iconic things become possible - but that is the brawler late-game.)

I'm going to have to agree with Cpt. Cain, DPR's a trap, it's something you can point at and say 'see? they don't suck' when DPR is only a small part of the problem. The real problem is a system that has a mechanic to determine how durable a person is (hit points) and has mechanics that outright bypass it, as well as having other mechanics that can stop someone dead in their tracks, for extended periods of time, at the same bloody level, and to exacerbate issues, they can do it to huge groups of people. Then there's skills. I'm not even going to start there.


I feel like I'm seeing the ninja for the first time all over again.


Mystically Inclined wrote:
Many people disagree, but this isn't the place to discuss it. Perhaps the rules forum?

This is about discussing the class, perhaps we should actually discuss the class here, subsequent discussion is also a thing.

Personally, I think the brawler only being good against a single foe kind of defeats the point of a 'brawler', or someone who participates, frequently in brawls, which are by and large affairs that involve ENTIRE ROOMS, so having the 'brawler' only be good at trashing one dude at a time strikes me as missing the point.

In addition to that, there's enough feats in the game as is, many of which are simply logical extensions of earlier feats (I'm looking at you two-weapon fighting) that serve no purpose other than to force a combatant, someone who is generally served learning a bunch of different tricks (this also makes them more entertaining to play), rather than learning one or two tricks, that they never really get better at, unless they make this major investment. Back on point: so why bloat up the game further with more 'Discipline feats' (which I could have sworn were called style feats a few books back) when they should either just be part of the combat system, or something unique like the Ranger's favored enemy?

Unless you're saying favored enemy is a magical thing somehow.


Ask your GM, the standard policy is that specific items only come in one flavor.


If you can figure out how to get past all of the armor check penalty, then it's not a problem. The problem is that I can only think of a way to get the ACP reduced by 5 (-3 mithril, -1 armor expert, -1 Serpent Runner) and that's not quite enough.


.... You didn't find any Samurai racial bonuses either.

Samurai= cavalier in all respects.
Ninja= rogue in all respects.


Mergy wrote:
Blue Star wrote:
Mechanically speaking, a paladin should be all but immune to addiction, however he can roleplay having one anyway, and that would be perfectly acceptable. He just wouldn't have any of the mechanical side effects.

This is why I suggested the holy tactitian archetype, which loses the immunity to diseases, and actually strikes me as one that has quite a bit of 'old soldier' feel to it as well.

@Quandary: I'm using fail because I thought someone mentioned it, although there is absolutely nothing in the paladin code that mentions no drinking either.

What I'm left with is this:
- Alcoholism is a disease and an affliction that causes someone to be less than their best. This is not against the paladin code.
- Alcoholism could cause a code violation, but so could the poor choice of a completely sober paladin. The wine didn't cause you to fall; your evil action is what caused that.

There's nothing wrong with this concept, and a GM who caused a paladin to lose his powers due to substance abuse is not someone who I would enjoy playing with.

I was thinking "because it's based on a save and no one has better saves than a paladin", even disregarding the outright immunity.


Mechanically speaking, a paladin should be all but immune to addiction, however he can roleplay having one anyway, and that would be perfectly acceptable. He just wouldn't have any of the mechanical side effects.


I've got a ninja/inquisitor going right now, for a few minutes a day it can be utterly horrifying. I'm still deciding on what to do after I get Stalwart though, as none of the other class features entice me.


I figured I ought to give this a bump, seeing as how it hasn't had a post in 3 days, and my game is tomorrow.


Ninjas are rogues. Look for Samurai bonuses, those will also probably fall short, because they are cavaliers.


Iterative attacks, if you're going to raise AC with your BaB, then you make iterative attacks utterly pointless. Now I do think that some classes should get bonuses, like the fighter should get something like a parry bonus in addition to his increased max dex with armor training, but that's not where the problems lie in a lot of these places.


Because they get all of that without penalties, they're also prepared divine spellcasters, and if I recall correctly their spell list is one of the best in the game.


Mark Sweetman wrote:

A Paladin hating adventure would be an exercise in making a stupid moralistic decision at every juncture...

Room 1:
Choice of two doors - go through door one and you kill a puppy, door two and you kill a kitten.

Room 2:
Kill the bad guy and make a village starve because they won't get food, or let him live and condemn them to life in slavery.

But that's about as realistic as the other 'sample' adventures that have been bandied around as examples of why the Fighter is a 'lawn ornament' so it's kind of pointless to use them as fact.

As a proper paladin:

Room 1:Fine, I walk through the wall. One hammer swing at a time if I must.
Room 2:I'll beat him up and make him into a real leader of men.

An adventure can hate a paladin all it likes, but if the paladin is clever and truly worthy of being a paladin, he can work around it. The problem is that paladins aren't really known for their cleverness.


I don't think feats are as good as class features tend to be.


Icyshadow wrote:

Only some spells have gotten the nerfs. Saves can always fail, and touch AC tends to be the lowest of the bunch.

Adding to that, with some creativity on the part of a skilled player, most spells can turn into auto-win spells, and I mean that by RAW.

(Why did I even bother responding?)

In what way? You can't make the saves high enough to bother a paladin, period, and anyone who decides to take the improved Iron Will/Fortitude feats is going to laugh at your best efforts. Most of the spells that are based on touch only do damage and again, you run into the issue that by the time you've dealt enough damage to most of the non-caster classes, you've been dead for 5 turns.


Icyshadow wrote:

...seriously?

With the extra class features, higher HD and all the other sweet stuff, you'd say that casters have been nerfed?

Yeah, I'm bailing out of this conversation before I start hitting my face on the desk from the sheer level of absurdity.

Let's take a look at what you aren't paying attention: The auto-win spells. Both Force Wall and Force Cage are breakable now, admittedly you have to be pretty powerful to go through them, but you can, unlike in 3.X. Then there are all the spells that either got turned into touch attacks, or had saves attached to them. Then there's the Celerity spells which had the disadvantage of "you become dazed after using this spell" when there were items that would allow you to flat ignore being dazed, cheap items.

Yes, the casters have been nerfed, badly, they were also made more survivable in exchange, so I still don't think it's quite enough, but it's not as ridiculous as it used to be.


Icyshadow wrote:

Improved Trip used to give a +4, as well as a free attack if you succeed on your attempt. Just to name an example.

And yes, casters have gotten more powerful in Pathfinder. At least have something to agree upon here when it comes to the topic.

As both me and Shallowsoul said:So?

The casters have been nerfed pretty hard all things told, I don't think you realize just how UNSTOPPABLE casters were in 3.X.


Icyshadow wrote:

Fighter feats used to be stronger in 3.5e than they are in Pathfinder.

Why does everyone overlook the fact that melee classes have essentially been nerfed?

...In what way? "Oh no, the feats no one used (combat maneuver feats) have been broken up! Whatever shall we do?" doesn't really count. The Shield Combat tree is definitely better than ever, even if I think it's something that should only take a single feat to accomplish.


A book could help with UMD.


We're running in a somewhat tuned-up Jade Regent.


I don't really need any more combat feats, at this point I don't think there are too many things I can pick up that would make my fighting style more effectual. The Kukri is only there to generate crits so that I get more hits with my shield.


I actually have a boatload of spells, I took the human inquisitor favored class bonus of an extra spell known every level, so I have all kinds of options, self-buffs, direct combat spells, and all of the cure line I have access to thus far.


The (improved) is to represent that I have both, do a feat count:
1 human
7 level
4 teamwork inquisitor
1 ranger

I left out Power Attack.

RPG Line and Setting up to the Jade Regent, anything beyond that is beyond me.

I'm not actually 15th yet, but I will be soon, and I'm preparing for what to do afterward.


It's not about finding traps, it's about disabling magical traps, and the only one I have access to is Find Traps, which doesn't let me disable magical traps.

Feats:
Two-weapon fighting (improved)
Double Bane
Shield Master
Shield Slam
Bashing Finish
Improved Shield Bash
Outflank
Shield Wall
Precise Strike
Coordinated Defense
Improved Critical: Khukri

All of the Paizo books are available.

Deity: Shelyn (I did mention that this was basically unheard of, but the GM okay'd it.)

Luck Domain

Favored Enemy: humans

I know it's a relatively small list, but I'm not going to try to type out all of my spells.
Traits: militia, indomitable faith
Human
Str 24
Dex 24
Con 20
Int 16
Wis 22
Cha 14

I took ranger for basically everything except wild empathy. This is a pre-existing character and it's a little late to change my race. Lawful good.


I've a character coming up on Trapper Ranger 2/Inquisitor 13 and I don't know what to do with the character after that, the only class feature that actually interests me is the spells, and I'm not sure that's enough to keep me in-class.

Should I stay as an inquisitor or move to something else?


Monk also gets a fair number of feats.


That's a silly question to be asking us, you should ask your friend this question.


They wouldn't make a paladin cry, they'd make a paladin smite.

counter-rant:
The first problem I noticed "paladin feats are just as plentiful as fighter feats" By this do you mean there are just as many feats dedicated to the paladin as there are to the fight? Because that's not very important. A fighter gets more than twice as many feats as the paladin does and a paladin is more likely to spend them on things to make their class features better, than to spend them on fighting better.

The fact that many GMs will screw with a paladin, by giving them a fall/fall situation, is frustrating enough that they ought to have a bit more power, don't you think?

CLW and LoH doesn't always fix the problem, if the GM wants it to be something harder, it is, and a quest ensues. A paladin worth his salt won't behave like that, being a paladin requires more than casual dedication otherwise no one will give you a sidequest, because you are unworthy, and until you truly prove you are worthy of a sidequest, you aren't getting one. First step: humility. Second step: showing you are wise enough to handle your powers without falling every time you use them.

It can be incredibly trying to actually play a paladin, even for a guy who is ostensibly lawful good, because sometimes telling the truth is infinitely more damaging than lying. Like telling an incredibly headstrong prince that his girlfriend got kidnapped by trolls, he's going to grab some guards, and get himself (plus the guards) killed by trying to tackle it himself. If you don't say anything about it, you're lying by omission, but if you say something, he gets dead.

Plus, the paladin flat loses to neutral creatures.


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As a wise man once said: a truly evil man takes all of the good options, until he's in charge, and then BAM! Off-world slavery.


The biggest problem with the "armor piercing bullet" concept, is that plate could actually stop bullets. When buying plate, if you knew what you were doing, you would look for a dent in the armor, if it had a hole in it, you didn't buy it. This was the armor being tested to see if it was bullet-proof.

Modern bullets have changed that, because they are smaller, and have a significantly greater amount of force behind them. This is why modern plates are ceramic the bullet impacts the armor, and most of the energy is transferred to the plates in the form of cracks, which is why you're supposed to get them replaced after getting shot: they're suddenly less effective.


The problem with attacks representing multiple attacks over a period of time is in ammunition, unless you outright state "you have enough ammunition for everything you're going to do until you get back to town" which can literally be months or years in some cases, then attacks every turn shouldn't represent multiple attacks over the course of that time.


mplindustries wrote:
blue_the_wolf wrote:
except for something like shocking grasp if your holding a metal shield
This is pretty much why Shield bonuses don't apply to Touch AC. If I can touch your shield, it's not really any different than touching your armor. I can still transfer the effect to you.

That only happens on some attacks, mostly electricity, even then you could utterly wreck electricity by having a metal wire going from your shield to the ground. Fire spells rarely generate an actual fire that could transfer to you. Directed cold is generally stopped by putting a solid object between you an it. Acid only transfers if you're dumb enough to touch it. Finally sonic depends entirely on how wide it is.

Absolutely none of that has anything to do with the fact that HP is abstract which is why things centered around taking damage get weird in places like this.


Game-related, so I'm going to spoiler it, because I'm not sure this is the right place to ask it.

Ninja:
Does the ninja shadow clone trick produce additional clones based on your level? For example:does my level 11 ninja create 1d4+3 clones, or just 1d4?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Blue Star wrote:
A thought occurs: you could make half any given monster's DR X/-, if you want them to be tougher.
The fix I always heard was having magical weapons only bypass 5 points of magic DR per enhancement bonus. So a dragon with DR 20/magic is only completely vulnerable to a +4 weapon, but a +2 weapon will still help in some way.

That would also work.


A thought occurs: you could make half any given monster's DR X/-, if you want them to be tougher.


I'd go with Warblade, they even have a move called "Lightning Throw", and it's pretty powerful.


Doomed Hero wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Blue Star has a point.

Which comes from previous editions, where the idea that only rogues and wizards get to have skills is deeply entrenched.

Bards and Rangers had a decent amount of skill points to spend. There are a lot of holdovers from the previous edition that I wish hadn't stayed.


I recall explaining that Gunslingers weren't just in the old west earlier in this thread. So why is this coming up again?


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beej67 wrote:
Quote:
But yes, a level 5 item crafter who happens to have 43000 gp can spend over a month making an item that will cast wish exactly once.

This is broken.

The word you are looking for is "unbalanced". "Broken" is when it doesn't work.


The same reason the paladin doesn't get Knowledge (Planes), because that's the way it was in 3.X.


Roberta Yang wrote:
Paladins get full plate and don't get armor training to raise its max Dex bonus. I can't think of a single other class that gets less out of having a high Dex score than a Paladin (except maybe a Synthesist).

Cavalier. Same as the paladin.


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I think that some of the feat chains are utterly needless. Two-weapon fighting and vital strike in particular. Two weapon fighting should just be a -2 hit when using it. Vital Strike should just be a single feat.


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pauljathome wrote:
Gunslingers. I don't like the flavour (guns don't belong in my faux-medieval fantasy) and I loathe the mechanics (the "primitive" guns have a significantly higher rate of fire than WW1 rifles had).

Firearms predate Fullplate in the real world. Actual guns came around the same time frame. I'll accept that it's -YOUR- faux-medeival fantasy, but I want you to understand that in the world without magic, they showed up a lot earlier than where that faux-medeival fantasy world is more or less set, and we -DON'T- have access to brain-enhancing magic.

That said: I don't like that guns are so prone to breaking. Especially properly-maintained guns, like what you'd expect an adventurer to have.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Anyone who says fighters are ONLY good for fighting, and also those who constantly create humdrum fighters that aren't really in-depth characters, but faceless PC placeholders that swing swords repeatedly.

So....silly people?

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