Vrock Skull

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Ok, well, there's two parts to this.

a.) for a Wish to grant your evil party time to buff would like granting them a mass time stop or granting them 5 or 6 spells, in some cases each. Either way, Wish can't do that without having some real issues in the wording. Remember that what's good for your bad guys is good for your party. If you want your party to be able to "buff" in a few seconds, then maybe; however, you possibly are opening yourself up for a lot of discussions in the middle of combat, i.e. "I altered my wish to include spells that I don't have access to but my character has seen cast on others."

My solution would be to avoid the idea completely. Use the top part of the wish spell that is very specific, relatively speaking, compared to the last part.

b.) Your players really shouldn't have a chance in heck of ambushing this group. The evil party has three wishes a day to play with to prepare an ambush site. Let's assume that it takes your party 3 days to reach the Roc. Now, the evil party has 9 wishes to burn to prepare. That could translate into 6 contingencies with three free wishes or just 9 contingencies, i.e. "In the event that Darl gets below 10hp or is affected by limiting effect, cast heal." or "In the event the other party reaches this point or within X number of feet of this point, cast plane shift twice to bring the evil party to the Roc's nest." etc. Lots and lots of evil possibilities.

Look at the ambush from Darl's perspective. He tried the first challenge and failed. He is being followed and is racing to reach the well. Hmmm... Why not go to the last challenge mentioned, do it, cover his tracks, and the set up an ambush to collect the rewards of all of the challenges? The worse that can happen is for one of your party members has arcane sight and sees the aura of the contingency.

Remember that the goal, or mine at least, is to test the party's ability to work as a team to over come a teamwork based threat. Use the monk or monks to grapple and take the clerics holy symbol. Use the horned devil to steal the main warrior's weapon and then toss it to the genie who plane shifts it away. This evil party is smart and has had time to prepare. Either is scary. Both is just deadly.


In my campaign, I went for the all or nothing side of this debate.

A warforged juggernaut is immune to any and all negative or necromancy effects; however, he is also immune to any positive energy effect.

That sounds powerful until you realize that if he dies he cannot come not back. Also, fast healing (or some other effect that I suddenly can't remember) doesn't work either. Vampiric touch doesn't work.

The two ways this guy can get repaired are either though repair (spells or the skill) or if someone casts the spells to make him less like a construct (humanoid essence?) and then casts the appropriate spells later.

It gets really frustrating when he has taken a large bit of damage and the artificer is across the room and the party wizard didn't have room to memorize a repair type spell that day.


These are all great ideas.

I, too, post the initiative order in plain view so that all can keep up and not just me.

Also, I started using a simple planning device for those fights that I really needed to be able to be perfect.

I kept it in excel but I also used paper in some instances.

The idea is that a BBEG/or other bad guy is or is not aware that a fight is coming, has or does not have time to prepare, has or does not have buff spells to cast, is or is not content to just sit back and wait on the party, or will or will not be able to go first.

Aware? Prep Time? Spells? Content? Initiative?
1 Aware Prep Time Spells Content First
2 Aware Prep Time Spells Content Not First
3 Aware Prep Time Spells Not Content First
4 Aware Prep Time Spells Not Content Not First
5 Aware Prep Time No Spells Content First
6 Aware Prep Time No Spells Content Not First
7 Aware Prep Time No Spells Not Content First
8 Aware Prep Time No Spells Not Content Not First
9 Aware No Time Spells Content First
10 Aware No Time Spells Content Not First
11 Aware No Time Spells Not Content First
12 Aware No Time Spells Not Content Not First
13 Aware No Time No Spells Content First
14 Aware No Time No Spells Content Not First
15 Aware No Time No Spells Not Content First
16 Aware No Time No Spells Not Content Not First
17 Not Aware Prep Time Spells Content First
18 Not Aware Prep Time Spells Content Not First
19 Not Aware Prep Time Spells Not Content First
20 Not Aware Prep Time Spells Not Content Not First
21 Not Aware Prep Time No Spells Content First
22 Not Aware Prep Time No Spells Content Not First
23 Not Aware Prep Time No Spells Not Content First
24 Not Aware Prep Time No Spells Not Content Not First
25 Not Aware No Time Spells Content First
26 Not Aware No Time Spells Content Not First
27 Not Aware No Time Spells Not Content First
28 Not Aware No Time Spells Not Content Not First
29 Not Aware No Time No Spells Content First
30 Not Aware No Time No Spells Content Not First
31 Not Aware No Time No Spells Not Content First
32 Not Aware No Time No Spells Not Content Not First

I know that this looks complicated and/or cumbersome at first glance but take the BBEG in SoLS. He will hear the party fighting in the other room, is content to sit back and wait for the party to come to him, has some prep time, and has buff spells to cast. That means that I only plan for two options of whether or not he goes first. In either case, I have a round by round plan of what he intends to do with only a slight variation.

The three knights in the room close by may or may not be aware (thick door, etc.), don't need time to prepare, have no spells to cast, wouldn't be content, and may or may not go first. So, I only think about what they would do in those four options. After a while, I started to get pretty quick about it and would simply just copy the round by round enemy intentions only make slight modifications.

I know that there are many many many more options than those that I took into consideration but this was just to help me clarify in my own mind what the bad guy intended to do if threatened.

When I think of "bad guys", I try to think in terms of "what would I do if I had been sitting in a dungeon for that long?" First, I would go nuts. Then, I would start planning. If it's a dumb opponent, then I think in terms of "what's my next meal?"

I have found that these two thoughts have greatly increased the speed of actual gameplay at my table.


Brilliant!

My next question as a Dm would be: How would this affect the Champion games?

Perhaps, a new figure emerges to bring "law and order" back the city?

Perhaps, this same new figure has been an upstanding and heroic figure that just so happens to organize and run an annual event that unifies the city?

Perhaps, this figure, commonly known as Raknian, declares that all those on the list will be punished during the upcoming games, think Gladiator.


Holy crap! You mean there's more of us in Huntsville, Al. My group is also in their late 20s to mid 30s some with kids, some not, and some hopeful that they don't have kids somewhere. We also live relatively close with a few that have moved away. We usually mix some beer into the equation and the seems to give us even more of an excuse to get together.

Now, to the topic at hand, we started about a year ago or maybe more like a year and a half and are wandering around in A Gathering of Winds. My goal is for this AP to last until 3 to 6 months after the start of 4e to see if we even want to progress or not.

Skeld wrote:
Milak wrote:


Ya as soon as you introduce a significant other into the equation gaming starts to take a back seat and getting a good session in with everybody present becomes harder and harder. My group is all 30's with 1 youngin at 15 so we can't always come together even though we live within a couple miles of each other. Back in the day, we use to play 6pm to 8am and there would be people out cold at the table napping in shifts so we could keep the session going. Now we go 8pm to 3am and everybody is falling out by then.

We are basically in the same boat. We all live here in the greater Huntsville, AL area. The wives are all very accommodating. The trouble is keeping the toddlers out of the dice.

d20 = choking hazard.

-Skeld

///More slashies!


PC Name: Wesley (male human cleric 6/RSoP4)
Adventure: Gathering of Winds
Location of Death: The bridge over the red river
Catalyst: Stray disiniegrate in the back.
Long Description:
So last night, my players were romping through A Gathering of Winds. First, a stray lightning bolt caused the portal (their exit) to become disrupted.

Next, they came across the noble salamander and managed to convince the guy to fight whatever was in the next room in return they would dismiss him back to his home plane after centuries and centuries of sitting in that room. He did but only after holding on to the party's portal hole which was given to them by a dragon to put the artifact's they were sent in to get (plot device).

They moved on to the bridge area, room 11, over the blood red river of trash and materials. (I should note here that this is an Eberron campaign and I have transitioned this adventure from Diamond Lake to the House Cannith tower in Sharn.)

The party sees across the bridge a warforged titan (CR 12) filtering organic parts out of the river of trash for some reason. (Think assembly line.) The gnome illusionist and lightest party member wanders across the bridge with a rope and is not challenged by the titan. The next lightest party member, Wesley the cleric, makes his way across and gets little response from the busy titan.

Now the third party member of four, a dwarven artificer wearing the house cannith symbol on his armor makes it completely across only to have the titan turn, register the symbol, and then get demanded by the titan, "COMMAND WORD! COMMAND WORD! COMMAND WORD!"

The sleepy player replies, "Execute?"

Well, combat ensues. Wesley steps up to block the titan from the illusionist. The illusionist casts grease under the titan to little effect.

The last party member, a heavy warforged juggernaut, tries to make his way across holding the rope, slips, and then ends up pulling the dwarven artificer in the river of parts and trash with him.

Now, its the cleric and the illusionist against the titan. The titan steps up and deals a measely 19 points of damage to the cleric (bad rolls). New round. The illusionist raises his hand and points a dark green glowing finger towards the titan. The player rolls a one for his ranged touch attack. I ask him to roll to hit the cleric who has a high armor class. The gnome hits the cleric. The cleric rolls a one on his fort save. "Poof" goes the cleric. The gnome yells to his fast disappearing party members before jumping into the river of trash, "Umm... guys... that thing just disintegrated Wesley!!!"

The headband being an artifact falls the six feet to the ground and then bounces into the river and into the gnome's hands.

I was laughing so hard at that point that we had to just stop for the night.


First and foremost, retain essence requires a day per item. That's a 24 hour day and not an eight hour day. Also, the artificer must be able to craft same said item. So no draining the next artifact that the party comes across.

Two things come into play when you start enforcing these two rules:

1. No party wants to sit around and wait a day per item and no DM should, in most cases, let a party sit somewhere in the middle of an adventure. If there's no sense of urgency, make one.

2. The party loses the gold from that item.

This means that it will cost the party time and money. Both are limited early on and thereby should be considered valuable. If not, then reduce one or the other until they become valuable again.

Also, if you are really hesitant concerning retain essence, you can toss in this houserule. "An artificer's retain essence ability does not stack, i.e. when you drain an item of experience, you hold that experience until you use it. You cannot "stack" this experience with experience that you are holding from another item. You could argue that it's from the same source, i.e. your class ability, and thereby should not stack. Loose argument but it may work for you. Personally, I did this to keep my artificer from becoming a magic item vampire. The idea is similar to a mage "holding a spell" until he can cast it. The mage can't hold more than one spell at time.

Also, watch your downtime. You will find with an artificer with downtime = magic items and gold. A smart player will employ a caster to work together to make tons of gold. Now, there are loopholes with this process but it's not really worth your time arguing it. I have found that when I am trying to consider how much downtime to give a party with any type of crafter, I think in terms of what could this party make with infinite wealth but "this" much time. Now, your clever artificers will game this idea too. Not to worry, the worst that they can do is create multiple lesser magic items versus one major magic item in the time allowed. Just be sure that these magic items don't stack or can combine for a superior effect, even if the party spreads these items out amongst the party members.

You are doing the right thing though. When in doubt concerning crafting totals and the like, seek the boards here or at wizards. Just remember to ask the DMs and not the players. I have found that DMs want balance and players want the entire scale.


Compare a half-orc to a halfling or any other player class? The half-orc and the half-elf do not measure up when compared to the other races. From a min-max perspective, there are much better choices to go with. If I had to chose between playing a warforged in a world that lacks artificers or wizards willing to cast the ARCANE spell to heal me, then I would chose anything else. Being wounded for days at a time because no one in my group can heal me is not fun nor is it appealing. Your party arcane caster has to either sacrifice a spell slot or a learned spell to cast the arcane healing spell. If you are lucky enough to find a wand of repair light damage, then that's a different story. A wand of repair light damage doesn't come cheap either.Even then, a warforged character can be a liability. For example, to reach the next part of the dungeon the party will have to swim across. The warforged would have to walk along the bottom provided that he can even climb back up the other side. Also, what if something is waiting on the other side for the party. Goodbye warforged melee machine. Also, many would point out how a WF melee has adamantine armor at level 1; however, they are quick to forget that this same character will never benefit from the armor that the party comes across and will have to get enchanted to improve. The damage reduction may seem like a lot at low levels but let's compare DR/2 versus a wish spell or an empowered maximized fireball. Also, that DR will never get any higher and the armor requires a feat which the melee character will need a great deal of.


Also, to "suck an item dry" takes one day per item and was intended to max out at the artificers bonus experience pool. (Can't remember the name of it.) A good house rule is that for everyone 1000 xp drain the artificer spends one day. Also, artificers can't drain items that the artificer can't make. The artificer must have the proper item creation feat, so artificers can't drain artifacts.


Your kidding right? Eberron was written by powergamers? "What we don't understand, we mock."

As far as, artificers in AoW goes, let me just say that time and money are YOUR friends. An artificer can break any game just as much as a wizard can. The idea is that an artificer that has many months and a vast amount of wealth can make some sick equipment. The good news is that AoW can be a relatively quick campaign with only a month to two months worth of downtime between modules. I had an artificer in one game that had a year's downtime and made a +5 or so mithral full plate. He then became the party's tank. It was an error on my part. There are many many ways to correct this, but in the end, it didn't matter because he died and took his equipment with him. Artificers are very balanced. Their special bane (anything) attack works but compared to a rogue's sneak attack is sucks in most situations. Warforged players are also very balanced. A warforged barbarian doesn't get fatigued, but he also only gets half the healing of a human barb who also gets another feat. Warforged characters are great characters but hardly broken. They suffer just as much as the next character when facing touch attacks and the like. In the end, a warforged artificer will be very interesting but hardly broken. You just have to keep up with how much gold the party has and remember that that +7 longsword you rolled randomly on the treasure chart can easily become something else that you may not like. You need to let this player know that you will not tolerate meta- or powergaming and will deal with abuse harshly. If he will play his character for the group as a whole and not just himself, then great you now have an asset for you party. If not, here's six six-dice. You need to get up to date on the item creation rules. Be very very afraid of what that Forgotten Realms wizard/cleric can do rather than worry about the warforged artificer that will be viable at endgame.

BTW Eberron is a very balanced world in the right hands. Actions points are balanced since both the players and the enemies and NPCs can use them.


I completely disagree with the idea that a party would be at full and rested strength when they face Kyuss. BBEGs don't just sit and wait for enemies to come to them. They plan and work and strive to stay alive. Let's say that you are Kyuss. Now, you know it will take a few moments for you to enter into the material plane. What you need is interference or for those sports fans out there: a blocker. I guess that I like my BBEGs to not be cardboard cut-outs with an experience and gold price tag for the players to turn after combat. When they face something of this magnitude, they should expect time, location, strength, and history to be major factors in the prep and outcome.

Picture it this way. The group has struggled and fought to reach this point through so many challenges. Now, they stand at the last step before they face Kyuss when the director calls cut and says, "Let's take five for the day." ? ? ? No, adrenaline and so many other factors are kicking in and Kyuss is ready to see his carefully crafted plans, which he has had nothing better to do than think about, come to life. All I can say is that I pity the party in my game that says, "We need to find a place to rest now that we are ready to kill Kyuss." If you can make it to his doorstep, then you now have his complete and undivided attention. Get ready.


Thanks for the input all. I think that will probably not include it in the campaign since it is a play by post and some may not be familiar with it enough sight unseen. The player is cool with my decision but I appreciate the input!


I was getting ready to start a play by post campaign of AoW when one of my players gets a hold of the new book, Tome of Battle. After I glanced through it, my player told me that it would be balanced and it wouldn't mess with the game. My problem is that I can't prove him right or wrong. My initial rule was that if it had not been published prior to the last adventure in the AoW campaign then it was not welcome. I did this to make sure that later surprises would have been anticipated by the designers. What I am asking is whether or not anyone here would think that ToB would be welcome in AoW without becoming unbalanced. I really like the adventures as they are, not just because I am lazy either ;), but also because they are good and I don't want to screw them up. I would really really appreciate some input here on this.

Thanks!


Also, don't forget that this guy has time stop too and probably a wish spell. Also, this guy is a deity. He knows that the wizard has the sphere out and ready to attack. If I were DMing that situtation, I would have had Kyuss ready an action to cast time stop to buff, travel to a place removed from combat for a number of rounds equal to the length of their defenses, and return with a quickened dispel magic to clear up any left over spells before unleashing hell on four 'heroes'.

Bottomline: It is very anticlimatic to play a ignorant deity. He has had many many many centuries to plan this and I don't see him rolling over to four beings with a small ball. I am not saying make it impossible, but any mage type that does not go to great lengths to hide a weapon as powerful as the sphere deserves to get it taken.


I really appreciate the feedback here. I have gone and reexamined the clerics character sheet and discovered that he has some 3.0 stuff on there (House rule for only 3.5). The assistant DM and I have asked him to make the necessary changes. Also, I took the advice from this post and now that level has been desecrated and the end boss has turn resistance. I did this to make the final battle a little more memorable and fun for all. Note: Any beings "created" by the boss do not have either benefit.

I personally don't like the variant turning rule since I can't really foresee how my players will abuse that rule. Also, I have already used the other rule in previous adventures in this campaign so I think it wouldn't flow too well.

Once again, thanks all.

BTW.. the creature has 17 Hd and he could have turned it. A quick follow up question would be can you use an action point, running in Eberron, to add to your turn check?


Have the cleric convince the Alkilith demon, to go guard the entrance. The cleric points out to the demon that the sooner that the cleric completes his activities and lives to do so, the sooner the demon can be freed to cause whatever wrath or destruction it wants.

Granted that that is mean and cruel but I am not a big fan of a party "pushing the save button" mid-level. There must be reprocussions to their actions or they will not "feel" that they are in the story. IMHO


Greetings all,

I am dming a group that is transitioning into AoW at a higher level, Champion's Belt, and one of my players had to move away which, in turn, caused another player to change characters to provide the party with a cleric. I made an error and pointed out that the party did not have anyone to turn undead (that's the last time I ever give a hint about anything... shame on me for metagaming). The new cleric, who hasn't played a cleric in 12 years, comes back to me with a Radiant Servant of Pelor. At first, I was welcoming to this character and the character's concept and background, he was the sole survivor of a tpk involving a group that had worked up through the adventures in AoW to try the party into AoW. Last night before I fell asleep, which is when I have my momentary bouts of intelligence, I realize that as a 10th level character he would be able to turn as a 20th level character, i.e. 10 + 4 (great roll) + 1 (improved turning) + 4 (phylactery of undead turning). Now for those of you who know, this can be somewhat of a problem at the end of Champion's Belt. Also, what do I do at later modules when the undead are more powerful but so is he. At 20th level, he could turn a 30 hd monster with a few feats and magic items.

What do I do?

Does anything need to be done?

Am I over-reacting?


My players have an artificer, a juggernaut, a cleric, and a wizard. My thought was to avoid the cleric and go for the juggernaut's weapon to scare the party a bit. Do think that two dwarves can do that much damage to a +2 axe?


Can I get a hold of those conversion notes too?

ironicness@hotmail.com

Thanks!


I took all the passages that lead off the map to be there as a just-in-case the party doesn't join the games. If the party joins the games, then these halls become deadends or other exits. I really don't want to have to make a mansion on the fly.


I have thought about this for a while myself. Another option is what happens if you party releases the monster and retreats to a distant room. The creature is suppose to break free. I am not a big fan of this since it a.) means that the party now has to scramble to get upstairs giving it more times to create undead (harder fight) and b.) you lose the cool scene of this thing erupting during mid-combat. Personally, I plan on this working out however the players make it happen, but my preference is for the monster to erupt mid-fight near the other group, destroy the golems in one to two rounds (lets everone know it means business), and then the party and the fighter and wizard from the other group gang up on the monster. If all goes well, the other group will surrender to the party once my group defeats the monster. However, I strongly suspect that this will not go as planned or hoped.


Greetings all,

First time poster here. I have a group that finished the Grasp of the Emerald Claw adventure and the preceeding adventures in that campaign. The group sits around 9th level and I just happen to have the Champion's Belt adventure, which I am very much impressed with. My question to all is how difficult would it be from those who have DMed the AoW to transition from these adventures into AoW starting at 9th level. The party has no interest whatsoever in starting back at one and would greatly enjoy continuing their characters. Besides seeking an answer to my question, I guess you could say that I seek advice as to whether or not this is a wise course of action considering how much of the adventure the party will miss. My solution thus far in my own mind is for one of the party, a recent addition, to be a part of the other group that includes Celeste (I believe that's right). This character worked with the group for awhile and then broke off once he determined that they worked with a powerful wizard. Also, I had contemplated combining the Champion's Belt and the Hall of Harsh Reflections into one adventure of sorts so that the players could run through both but receive the same amount of experience as if they had only played the Champion's Belt. This would work best for me considering that in Eberron I was going to transition Free City into Sharn and the party would returning from Xen'drik.

Thoughts?