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So just a quick lore question, why did the Runelords all pursue such round-about and faulty methods to escape Earthfall, creating their various demiplanes tied to runewells with elaborate pre-requisite contingency to revive them? What was the purpose for wizards of the generally absurd level of power they possessed? Alaznist and Xanderghul were the only two who don't have access to the conjuration school, and thus "Create Greater Demiplane", so it makes a little bit more sense that they had to create some alternative means of escape. They rest of the Runelords should all have just permancy'd a Create Greater Demiplane and they would have accomplished the same result.

But why did they bother trying to hibernate in the first place? Why didn't they just go world/dimension hoping for a couple hundred years or so while they waited out the effects of Earthfall like most high-powered mages. Or like, teleport to the opposite side of the world and just survived as necessary after they saw the effects of Earthfall.

Every time I post this it messes up because I'm going to fast and am not checking my work, because I'm upset. Sorry everyone if there's double posts everywhere, but I need this resolved right now or soon or I will not be able to sleep. I'm sure that I'm wrong, I just can't see it. Please someone just tell me I'm stupid, to calm down and how I messed up this calculation. There is no way the basic math of PF2e is this fundamentally wrong. I won't be offended, someone just please tell me I can't math or I don't know how to play or something as long as you show the math about how the saving throws are more even than what I calculated.

For reference, I don't know the rules that well. I did all the research and reading as I was formulating this post, which is in response to the posters you see quoted. I'm sorry I'm stupid, I get like this sometimes, where my brain locks up and I can't see my errors. So please someone just calmly explain my mistake to me.

Megistone wrote:

wakedown wrote:

How deep have folks looked at fireball?

We haven't had a ton of enthusiasm here on wizards or sorcerers, mostly because of a perception (which may be true or false) that mid-level doesn't look "as fun anymore".

I don't think the PF1e core Fireball was overpowered. It was later on when folks picked up metamagic rods of maximize, empower and/or selective and were cross-blooded and what-not that fireball was problematic on the power scale.

Where does theorycrafting on PF2e fireball stand? (I imagine concrete playtesting is pretty limited at this stage)

A Fireball starts at 6d6 and doesn't move if you don't heighten the spell; in exchange its DC does scale with level, and it didn't in PF1.

This isn't exactly true as far as I can tell, but I'm only armchair theorycrafting at this point so I may be wrong. Anyways:

Spell DC technically scales with level, but Saving Throws also scale with level, so the result is a functional wash within standard difficulty encounters. Spell DC does scale up at certain break-points, specifically at levels 12, 16, and 19, when the caster (looking specifically at wizard because that's all I care about) gets their proficiency increases, assuming targets never gain a related saving throw increase. Otherwise the proficiency bonus is static throughout those level ranges. Which means a mage will have DC = (Die Roll) + (Int Mod) + (Level) from level 1-11. The comparison is hard because the systems are different and the specific target you chose to attack may make a huge difference, but I chose something easy for me to reference.

Compare Wizard casting fireball, Caster Level 11, 18 Int (+4 mod), against 3 fighters, levels 8, 11, 14, with Dex 12 (+1 Mod), no encumbrance or dex penalities; no relevant modifiers (feats, magic items, etc) on either side

PF1e: 
Fireball: 10 (base DC) + 4 (int mod) + 3 (spell level) = DC 17

PF2e: 
Fireball: 11 (trained proficiency [level +0], lvl 11) + 4 (int mod) = DC 15

PF1e: 

Fighter 8: Die roll +2 (base reflex mod) + 1 (dex mod) = 14 (min die roll to succeed) 
Fighter 11: Die roll + 3 (base reflex mod) +1 (dex mod) = 13 (min die roll) 

Fighter 14: Die roll + 4 (base reflex mod) +1 (dex mod) = 12 (min die roll)

PF2e: (fighters are expert in reflex) 

Fighter 8: Die roll + 1 (dex mod) + 9 (level +1) = 5 (min die roll to succeed) 

Fighter 11: Die roll +1 (dex mod) +12 (level +1) = 2 (min die roll) 

Fighter 14: Die roll +1 (dex mod) + 15 (level +1) = auto

Even if fighters are only trained in reflex: 

Fighter 8: Die roll + 1 (dex mod) + 8 (level) = 6 (min die roll to succeed) 

Fighter 11: Die roll +1 (dex mod) +11 (level) = 3 (min die roll) 

Fighter 14: Die roll +1 (dex mod) + 14 (level) = auto

* note that Full Plate still allows a +1 Dex mod; and given the above data, I'm not going to bother looking up bulk encumbrance rules to see it a fighter carrying a battleship on their back suddenly allows the wizard to hit them.
**note that these super low saves means that these fighters will critically succeed at a much higher rate, taking ZERO damage. At least in PF1e, they would take half damage.

Someone please double check me, but I'm pretty sure this works out. If it doesn't than I'm sorry I don't have a great grasp of the rules just yet. If it does, I might need to post this on a seperate thread to see if it attracts an official response. Thanks Wakedown for forcing me to do the math.
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Please cancel my subscription.

On a side note, is this really how this is done with this company? Can't you just add a tab-path through account management to cancel, like EVERYONE else.