Amaya/Polaris's page

Words have power and there's no save or "willing" clause for the messages; it doesn't seem like the sender's identity needs to be known, either. They all have planetary range and some fairly lax requirements for targeting, which is good if you have good intentions (referring to the messages) and kind of bad if you don't.

Nondetection doesn't help; earliest counter I can find in the spells category is Spell Immunity, which is 4th Lv (to DM's 3rd, N's 4th, and S's 5th). Not too bad, but I'm wondering if there's anything more specific and accessible. Restful Sleep Fulus help with Nightmare a bit, and Psychic Warding Bracelets give the same bonus for cheaper, but they do stack. Still, those are consumables to give mild wards against a spell with no particular cost that can be cast anonymously from halfway across the planet, and there's no save for the message spells at all. What am I missing here?

Hello. Had a lot of silly questions with few answers. I'll say off the bat I don't intend this to be a complaint thread, so I'd appreciate keeping that out of the replies as well as possible. Designer insight would be swell, but not something I can really ask for; anything I missed or advice on how to make my character work well without houserules would be great...but if I have everything right, there's a fair chance I'll just switch to Fighter. (This will be a lot of text, but I'll summarize the questions at the end.)

★Background★
I'm playing a former two-pistol bandit whose wife is a classic Pistolero and whose mom took up Drifter as part of reconnecting with her. So naturally I want to play something with a gun that's fairly mechanically distinct from them, even if that isn't necessary, and on top of that she got a pickaxe her dad used before his death, so I started to gravitate towards using the pick and a gun in tandem, as a reflavored combination weapon (call it a pickstol), and leveraging both high Strength and high Dexterity for some switch-hitting. Vanguard Gunslinger sounds cool and thematically fit the character's mom but her player found it too at odds with itself, so I investigated it instead, with the idea of taking up the combination weapon that specifically bills itself as good for Strength/Dex builds like Vanguard: the gun sword.

★What Vanguard Has★
It became pretty apparent that Vanguard's exclusive stuff starts off weak and anti-synergistic, and gets better as the game progresses.
• Clear a Path essentially grants the shove trait if you have any room for bullets or desperately need it, but offers no boon whatsoever against enemies with reactions you'd want to get away, which one would think is a prime reason to shove; not bad for pure repositioning needs, but awkward and one-note in several respects, getting worse as the game goes on and enemies generally gain more reach, and easily supplanted by generic reloads overall.
• Living Fortification is also more likely to have an effect the lower your initiative is, and it's a bit strange that its very brief incentive to have the parry trait doesn't carry over to the reload at all.
• Phalanx Breaker is solid, though, a strictly better and more stylish way to make space than Clear a Path (besides the little detail of not being able to follow, which is another reason to grab Running Reload).
• Though Spinning Crush is more situational in its use, it's also pretty stylish, and probably one of the earliest martial AoEs in the game.
• Where the Way really comes into its own thematically is at Lv 14, with Blast Tackle, which offers a bunch of boons to allow and incentivize something you've probably wanted to do since you started, though the Grapple does still cause MAP.
• It's immediately followed by Siegebreaker at Lv 15, which ties the parry action/incentive back in, and acts as the apotheosis of the "stand and fight" theme of some earlier options. Just a shame that it's taken so long...and doesn't synergize with Clear a Path, if you remember that.

• The requirements for these options are a little all over the place, but become more specific in time. The niche reload requires a two-handed weapon, setting a base expectation of such; the initial deed and Spinning Crush don't care (but the optional Phalanx Breaker wants a two-handed as well), and then the last two specifically require a firearm with the kickback or scatter traits (all two-handed anyway, except the dragon mouth pistol and spoon gun). A pox on those who don't read ahead: you'll probably want to get used to one of those 8 weapons from the get-go, at least for the hope of reaching Lv 15, and there's no way to add one of those traits that I could find. (The only weapon with both is, a bit cheesily, the dwarven scattergun.)

• So, just looking at the above, we've got a very slight physically defensive throughline, and a few tactically defensive options which sometimes require good Athletics, though there's no emphasis on melee weapons, unlike Drifter. The Strength/Dexterity suggestion in gun sword's description probably comes minorly from Bulk, and mostly from the Athletics that Vanguard gives and sort of incentivizes, and much later on will greatly incentivize if Blast Tackle is your thing. And that guidance from gun sword's description is kind of important, because...

★What Vanguard Doesn't Have★
• There's no sample build. It's the only Way to lack one. Sample builds are very thin, but they're still helpful to get the base expectations across for new players, and (in this case) for an experienced player who isn't quite sure what's expected to start with, given the slightly disjointed mechanics.
• There's not much support for Athletics options or a shield. As noted above, most of the features and feats require or incentivize a two-handed gun (very preferably with scatter or kickback, or parry to mix with Defensive Armaments if you don't like Siegebreaker; the only gun with parry lacks the other two). You could stick to Living Fortification, Spinning Crush, Blast Tackle and Siegebreaker with a dragon mouth pistol or spoon gun...but though it seems like a surprisingly good option, the sheer specificity of this suggests it's not really the intention. So you'll usually be left with Strike + Shove/Reload, or just Shove/Reload, or (Athletics Action) + Regrip, until Blast Tackle also gives you a cool way to Grapple at Lv 14 (assuming you take it). There are no maneuver traits on any of the applicable weapons.
• It's not clear what the bulk of your gameplay should be. Every significant Vanguard thing except for Phalanx Breaker requires being adjacent to an enemy, but again, there's no support for melee weapons, unlike Drifter, though you can throw on a bayonet or reinforced stock if you're using a normal gun. Every option either shoves enemies away from you or kind of sticks you to them, but when you don't have those options or aren't in melee, there's no obvious thing you're incentivized to do, the way Drifters are told to throw out melee attacks with impunity but stay mobile, Pistoleros have to stay close to Demoralize or use tricks to land big shots, Snipers sneak and position for different big shots, and Spellshots Recall Knowledge and target weaknesses. You can shove people into position, or shove them away, but there's nothing else drawing you into melee. So I guess you just shoot normally?

There's a conclusion to that, I suppose. Vanguard probably wants some Strength for maneuvers, when they're helpful/are eventually unlocked/are worth having to regrip and being unable to attack until then. But mostly they just shoot with big guns and retaliate if anyone struts up to them, as far as I can tell. That or they pick up Stab and Blast at Lv 8 to earn an incentive for melee. And that's only half of the story — gun swords are good for Vanguards, remember? Or at least can be leveraged well by them. This was even supported a little by Michael Sayre in pre-release chatter. And that is a whole different can of worms, it turns out.

★What Combination Weapons Offer★
There's a nice mathy notion of coolness and crit versatility potentially outweighing the low damage here, in a random Reddit comment section, but I'll mostly be speaking on the generalities.
• Easier swapping between weapons. Yes, it's an action each time, which is inferior to just having an (admittedly quite weak) attached weapon on your weapon or pulling out and dropping a backup weapon...if you use one-handed weapons and only need that backup once, anyway. No easy take-backs if you leave a dropped weapon behind, and no quicker action economy if you're using a two-handed weapon. One action to swap back and forth is more attractive in those contexts, and Vanguard does ask for two-handed weapons.
• They save some money. No, seriously. Money for runes seems trivial from a theorycrafting perspective, until you're doing something goofy like two pistols with two bayonets and suddenly you're expecting to take a whole level or two to get everything up to par. Even blazons or just investing in a backup weapon normally are a pretty penny early on.
• As previously mentioned, the melee usages have versatility in their critical specialization, essentially getting the pick (extra damage) or firearm (save for Stunned) effects as alternate options which require firing the gun. Don't need to cause someone to be flat-footed, or shove, or whatever it is your weapon group does? Just use one of those instead! The firearm effect in particular is pretty darn good.
• They have that thing where you can make a ranged Strike on an enemy after hitting them with a melee Strike, without switching. This is by default pointless, except for style — the ranged attack will usually deal less damage and trigger many types of reactions if they're around. However, one specific combination weapon has scatter if you want to give a quick boop to nearby enemies (especially swarms), you can make use of previously loaded special ammunition, and in the case of Vanguard specifically, this lets you Strike + Strike-5 + Shove-5 in the melee configuration...if your GM is generous with readings. And the previously mentioned versatility could be more flexibly replicated with the Drifter setup of two one-handed weapons and perhaps a 1st-level Gunslinger feat, both of these points being a little relevant, because...

★What Combination Weapons Don't Offer★
(And vice-versa, on the part of Vanguard.)
• Not much power. Either in traits or in damage dice. It varies by weapon, and a few have traits that are usually only for martial weapons to better replicate their inspirations, but in general, each component of a combination weapon is about on par with a simple weapon, being one die size weaker than normal or having fewer traits. Credit where credit is due, however: the gun component of the gun sword holds up better than most if you have high Strength, though it's still a die size lower than the original harmona gun. The melee component is a two-handed longsword.
• Clarity and explicit compatibility is a little lacking. At least, some people aren't sure about what exactly "usages" means in niche situations, whether you can reload when using the melee version, whether you can decide the form when you pull out or pick up the weapon, etc. Perhaps most notably, whether you need to be in any particular form to use Stab and Blast, though the requirement doesn't suggest this. A GM kind enough to fudge around requirements such as Clear a Path to allow the sequence mentioned earlier, or even say you're technically wielding a firearm in the melee configuration for other feats, make such a weapon legitimately much more versatile and useful.
• There's no particular help against reactions. Again, ranged attacks and manipulate actions such as reloading both trigger reactions that follow Attack of Opportunity's vibe, so it would be nice if a Way which encourages being in melee range helped with this. Drifter can get Sword and Pistol for at least attacks (the release version no longer being compatible with any other weapon setup), but the best Vanguard can get is spending an action to parry, and combination weapons do nothing to change this, as it's Interact to switch usages. You still want Running Reload to Step, or something.
• Perhaps most damningly, critical specialization for the melee weapon groups isn't offered by Gunslinger at all. So that whole thing about Critical Fusion being a benefit doesn't apply, as far as I can tell, since it replaces that effect — unless you finagle a way to gain access from out-of-class things like Mauler (which offers no extra proficiency, because Singular Expertise).

At a base level, the gun sword offers an okay melee weapon you can switch to and from, which uses your gun's runes, and if your GM is cool you can chain a melee Strike into a ranged Strike into a Shove into a Reload, rather than just start with the ranged Strike. But since its main other benefit is lost on Gunslingers, melee strikes will always be at a lower proficiency than ranged ones, Vanguard itself offers almost nothing to melee Strikes in particular, and it's unclear if you can use most any of Gunslinger's affairs in the melee usage, I fail to see how Vanguards can usefully leverage a gun sword compared to an attached weapon.

So, my questions are such:
★ During development, were combination weapons once set up in such a way as to offer more synergy to a Vanguard, or more advantages in general?
★ Alternatively, was Vanguard once set up in such a way that combination weapons would be more helpful? Perhaps I'm misreading or overlooking something?
★ What exactly is the default/expected stat build and playstyle of Vanguard? Did I hit the mark that it's Strength for Clear a Path/Blast Tackle, but mostly Dexterity for shooting, and getting into the thick of things just to stand, shoot, and push people around when they get close?
★ What do you think is the best way to use a gun sword or other combination weapons, as they are? What rulings/edits would you make for their use, if any?

There's been no dedicated thread that I found, at least not one using the official name. And I'm curious: what do people make of this thing? Any actual experience this early after release?

I wasn't expecting to be that into it compared to the other class archetypes, but a Life Oracle of mine is perfect for it thematically, so I'm switching her over to it from Medic soon. (Medic seems like a great alternative for what I'm doing, but another character of mine is already using it...and another used it before that. I really do play that many healers.)

For basics, it's a Rare class archetype for spontaneous casters (though bound to be popular outside PFS, like the Cathartic Mage archetype), and you lose a spell slot at every spell level (at odd levels, not even levels like Flexible Caster), but every time you enter a non-Trivial combat encounter it's a 25% chance to cause a surge, 50% chance to get a random 1st/2nd/3rd highest slot back (to use in 3 rounds), and 25% chance to get any level of slot you want back (to use in 1 minute). You can also make this roll in other high-stress situations, in case you're not just in fights all day. If you don't have a missing slot to temporarily recover, nothing happens, but if you have fewer than 3 spell levels it adjusts for that.

There's a restriction on the slots you can get back at Lv 1, probably to keep from getting too much over a standard caster. Afterwards, it slowly becomes an overall trade of consistent all-level slots for potentially more high-level ones, if you trigger enough rolls. Most conversation I've seen has interpreted this as the archetype getting more and more worthwhile the more encounters you have in a day, but besides the "high-stress" clause, I've also seen little to no discussion of Urgent Upwelling, a Lv 6 feat (just before you would start theoretically losing slots you almost definitely won't get back) for a reaction that lets you roll when you're crit, crit fail a save, or are brought to 0 HP (once per 10 minutes). Naturally, these happen more in really tough fights, and there tend to be fewer of those in a day, and casters kinda do better with fewer encounters to throw their stuff at in general. So I'm not sure it'll be as one-dimensional a value as more betterness for more encounters (though it should be emphasized, this archetype offers an unusual amount of sustain for a not-unlucky caster).

As for the surge effects themselves, there are 4 self-harmful effects, 4 mixed-harmful effects, 5 neutral(?) effects, 3 mixed-helpful effects and 1(one) self-helpful effect. It is largely a bad or neutral thing to generate a surge, though the mixed effects can depend based on where you're positioned. (You are the point of origin and you aren't immune to their effects, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily centered on you. There isn't much said about how GMs should determine where exactly they go when there isn't some entity responsible for your wellspring, just that you have no control over how they manifest.) There is a Lv 4 feat called Wellspring Control to roll twice and pick the result you want, though, which probably helps a lot. Surges are more a wacky side-effect mechanism to getting more slots back than a desirable thing in themselves, at least mechanically, but they can still probably be helpful in some ways when sorta controlled like this. Or at least less rough. You can't control the optional crit effect of Urgent Upwelling (the enemy generates a surge on themself) or the success effect of Interfering Surge (same, we'll get to it later), though.

The archetype has some additional feats later on as well, mostly some fitting Sorcerer stuff and mostly decent as well. (Unfortunately, rather than Overwhelming Energy they threw in Oracle's Surging Might which is cool but barely ever comes up by default, so it's not perfect. Can't fault them, though, the name is fitting and it theoretically throws a bone to the Divine damage types.) As a nice bonus, most of the feats are at their original level, too! Energetic Resonance 8, Spell Relay 8, Surging Might 10, Scintillating Spell 16, Echoing Spell 18.

The final unique feat (though I feel like both the Lv 4 and Lv 6 are shoe-ins if you want to really commit to it) is a ways in at Lv 12. Interfering Surge is, as far as I can tell, pretty much the most permissive counterspell feat in the game. Seriously. Counterspell, Wizard's Clever upgrade and PFS Spellmaster's "Master's" version require you to have the same spell either prepared/in repertoire or in your spellbook (for Clever), and Runelord's School Counterspell requires the same school as your specialization (also very nice, by the way), but Interfering Surge lets you counter literally any spell that can be countered, with caveats: if you have the same spell it's just like normal Counterspell, if it's from your magical tradition you take -2 to the check, and if it's anything else you take -5. Not at all insignificant numbers, but there's another layer of risk-reward: if you're successful you cause the caster to generate a surge, and if you fail you generate one yourself. I don't think there's much else in the game that lets you try to counteract whatever you want, and the already-swingy effect gets even swingier with the addition of a surge, so it seems worthwhile to hold onto one's Hero Points for. (Speaking of which, the flat check to get slots back might be able to be rerolled in specific ways, too. I haven't looked into it.)

All very lofty and all, but my character's Lv 2, so what does that mean for me? I've got 3 1st Lv spells, 2 1st Lv spell slots, and some neat focus spells and decent cantrips for sustain, and I should probably look into some sort of long-lasting buff, social spell, or other use for an early slot expenditure, so that when encounters or other stressful things pop up, I can potentially get the slots back immediately and use them to make the fight easier. If not, I can just wait for after the first encounter, where a spell will probably be used anyhow, and as I gain a few more spell levels I'll have more chances to get good uses for early spells in exchange for a higher chance to miss a slot recovery if I don't vary the spell levels I use. A little risky, perhaps a little fiddly, but both cool and offering a good chance at a lot of sustain once you have empty slots in your top 3 levels.

Summoners can take this archetype, by the way, and thus get a lot more back from it with a lower chance to miss a slot recovery, in exchange for cutting down their already-slim portfolio to only being guaranteed two spells a day. Sorcerers also have more of a buffer in their slots since they have more than usual. I kinda feel like there's no wrong chassis to use it on, honestly, it's just the dynamics that change, and it seems more valuable if you're comfy with the stuff you do for sustain, to me. I suppose we'll see how that holds up in my case when I actually get to try it soon.

That's all I've got, what are your impressions?

DIVINATION [DISCORD]
Runelords of divination hold an iconoclastic specialty, which leads them to wicked plans, mischief, and viewing others as pawns.
Prohibited Schools abjuration, illusion; Rune Spells initial: hyperfocus (Gods and Magic 113), advanced: ephemeral hazards (Gods and Magic 113)

(Wordy Fanfiction Alert)
Discord (Colorless). This rune, and the school associated with it, wasn't much emphasized in our day; the prevailing reasoning was that divination spells were compatible with specialists of all other runes, and thus were likely to be of a mostly minor "universal" or "school-less" school. The hot gossip in our circles was that Xin didn't care for the schools its practice seemed to clash with, perhaps tinged by envy or pride in his own little way — others have since pointed out that its sin would have been especially fitting and disastrous for a self-made ruler, and it's more likely that he cast it aside out of fear or because it didn't fit as well into his notion of virtues. Whatever the truth, modern magical theory considers divination a proper school, if one with ill-understood ties to the great failure of prophecy, and some study of the rune did occur: it evokes a powerful sense of harmony and clarity regarding the placement and possible paths of people around you, as well as a feeling of knowing best where everything can go. This is an obvious boon in drawing the right conclusions or effects from divination spells, but the few heretics who practiced its use often slipped into a love of controlled chaos and manipulating others towards debased end-goals — some even fancied themselves rightful successors to Xin's rule. Inevitably, they became nuisances who were silenced when finally found.

Because it's on my mind, and I think a class-specific selling point with very limited availability and lots of caveats should rival other focus cantrips and spells more.

[Cantrip]

Spirit Object: uses d6 for base and heightened damage dice instead of d4, as suggested in Deadmanwalking's homebrew, which I'm fond of and would be directly proposing additions to if they were finalized and the user were around at present. Also, has a Speed of 30 feet and can be cast with up to three actions to move up to three times, or use no more than one action to attack at any point.

Evil Eye: adds a success effect and extra condition. CS: unaffected. S: Frightened 1 but spell ends and condition reduces as normal. F: Immobilized for 1 round and Frightened 1. CF: Immobilized and Frightened 2.
The Escape action for this Immobilized effect can use a Will save instead of an unarmed attack or Acrobatics/Athletics check, because Immobilized is pretty darn powerful. (This may be too much power, regardless. Consider saving additions for heightened effect, removing either the success effect or Immobilized condition...and/or nerfing Dirge of Doom.)

Nudge Fate: no listed target or saving throw. After casting or sustaining, if an ally within 30 feet has a CF or F occur and a +1 status bonus would help, you can grant it retroactively. Alternatively, if an enemy in that range has a CS or S, you can retroactively bring it down with a -1 status penalty, which the enemy avoids on a successful Will save. Either way, the recipient is temporarily immune for 1 minute and you can't do so again until you sustain the spell. When the spell ends, you can't cast it again for 1 minute.

Stoke the Heart: also grants a +1 status bonus against emotion effects.

Shroud of Night: added outcomes. CS: unaffected. S: other creatures are concealed unless target has darkvision. F: as success but target needs greater darkvision. CF: target is blinded.
Disables light blindness in any outcome other than CS.

Discern Secrets: any checks made with the granted bonus aren't secret. If the target would normally be unable to try due to a stagnant situation, lack of info, failed check or other barrier, they still can, though only once per turn or after some time has passed.

Wilding Word: can also successfully target beasts, elementals, fey, and creatures that can use or are made from primal magic.

Clinging Ice: damage die is 1d6 rather than 1d4. CS: unaffected. S: half damage and -5 circumstance penalty to speed. F: full damage and -10. CF: double damage and -15.

[Lv 1]

Blood Ward: can designate any creature trait. Or, remove constructs and include humanoids and giants.

Cackle: loses the Hex trait. Can be taken in place of Phase Familiar at character creation, at which point Phase Familiar remains available with a Lv 1 feat that also adds a focus point.

Elemental Betrayal: when air or earth are chosen, also takes extra damage from electricity or acid (without the chosen trait) respectively.

Life Boost: no changes.

Needle of Vengeance: clarified to be only one save which determines the damage dealt for the duration.

Phase Familiar: the resistance and immunity to precision damage last until the end of your next turn.

Veil of Dreams: on CF, the penalty increases to -2 or -3 against sleep effects.

[Lv 3]

Deceiver's Cloak: the duration is sustained up to 1 hour.

Malicious Shadow: no changes.

Personal Blizzard: heightening is +2 and increases the cold damage and persistent cold damage by 1d6 (2d6 on crit). Doesn't count as magical snow for Murksight.

[Lv 5]

Curse of Death: no changes?

Glacial Heart: no changes. (Shame it's rare. )

Restorative Moment: the target also feels refreshed and recovers HP equal to their level. Modifiers to HP from resting affect this healing.

That's all. As usual, I spent too long on this. Won't be able to edit it because it's not in a Google Doc or whatever, but I'd still be interested to know what others think. It can always be refined and reposted, or people reading can just take and tweak what's there to suit Witches you want to give a boost to.

The Secrets of Magic playtest forum is probably being retired soon, so I'm asking here. Theorycrafting character builds, I've noticed that not only do multiclass archetypes vary pretty heavily on how well they handle a class's unique traits, they've also never really been asked about on playtest questions (as far as I can recall), or included for playtesting when new classes are offered.

In the past, I've noted that PF2 playtest archetypes for martials used to give only 1/day usage of features like Attack of Opportunity, Rage and Hunt Prey in exchange for a fairly generous suite of weapon and armor proficiency. This was changed around to all-day versions of the less powerful features (cool and good), in exchange for removing the per-class proficiencies in favor of saddling Fighter with weapons and Champion with armor and both with a feat tax to advance them, a change I hate even more now that APG archetypes offer such things in more appropriately placed, sensible ways. (On a side note, remember when gishes were pretty simple to build in the playtest, to the point of probably popping up too often? Weird to think about in today's environment!)

Past the issues with CRB archetypes, mostly regarding the aforementioned slightly limp Fighter and Champion benefits (and Monk being a bit weirder after the unarmed errata), Witch has had a few discussions about the familiar their dedication grants and how many abilities they're intended to have, as well as their complete inability to give the one (1) Hex cantrip a full Witch has the way Bard eventually offers Inspire Courage. Oracle, meanwhile, explicitly has a First Revelation option...with a completely flavorless and mildly irritating Moderate curse instead of the cool tradeoff most Moderate curses give as reward for dealing with the Minor drawbacks. I've seen comparatively little discussion about this, but nothing positive.

So now the Summoner and Magus playtest came and went, continuing the decision of having no work-in-progress archetypes to try out and critique. I imagine Paizo holds back the archetypes because there are always experimental mechanics afoot, and they either don't design the stripped-down version until those mechanics have been finalized or don't want to draw attention away from discussing and playtesting the actual classes. (Especially sensitive for Magus given the occasional talk about how it'd be better off as an archetype-only, and encouraging more of that when it's pretty much set in stone as a class could feel a little bleh.) Even so, I don't see how the archetypes merit different treatment compared to the classes themselves, given that even a smaller mechanic can be unclear or misguided, and most of the ways an archetype can break bad also apply to the classes but moreso. If the archetypes just don't exist until later in the process, a question on the feedback surveys gauging opinions on different ways to handle the eventual archetype could be nice, at least.

Anything I'm missing?

I've alluded to this idea a few times and wanted to call a little more attention to it in the last leg of the playtest. If it's been posted as a thread before, my apologies, I stopped following discussion as closely once most of the major points had been made.

My first reading of the rules for Summoners and their Eidolons sharing results (but taking the worst "more severe" possible effect) wasn't correct. I thought it was pretty nice. People on the forums thought that they each rolled and took the worst result between the two, which is basically a misfortune effect except with different proficiency/circumstantial bonuses. This has been discussed forwards and backwards, but it seems a fair amount of people don't like it while the rest just think it's tactically neutral.

My first interpretation was that one roll was made for both characters, and then it was adjusted by their individual proficiency/circumstantial modifiers separately and the worst result of the two final results was taken. And I haven't seen much to indicate this wouldn't be a better way to go about it. If their connection is strong enough to share HP, I think it's in-theme to also share their instinctual approach to reflexes/resilience/willfulness when they're close enough to get caught by the same effect.

As far as I can tell, it's a small defensive buff since having the same base result and then modifying separately can never be worse than the current system, it's less swingy/frustrating to adjust a result down one stage (because the Summoner's not as chunky as their Eidolon friend or Eidolon friend was called fat by a Swashbuckler) than two or even three (because of wildly different rolls outweighing their individual statistics), and it means one less roll you need to make every time you're both caught in an effect you have to react to. Maybe this idea could also be generalized out a bit for other rough patches or similar situations I'm not thinking of, like needing to roll Perception as a pseudo-save or something.

What do you all think?