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And those who show them disrespect are frowned upon. Bartender/innkeeper/shopkeeper. "Sorry sirs, but Father Petre there blessed my building at Pharasma's day. Since then we have had no troubles from those evils that stalk our land. We won't be wanting to change that now . . . Will we? You sirs have a pleasant day as we won't be sevinging you in this establishment." Characters quickly learn not to disparage the local priest . . .
Southern New Mexico here. Had a full group for over 25 years, with us gathering mostly once a week barrin exceptions.
45. Great Gold dragon of the Uquid Mountains dies of natural causes, leaves prized collection of butterflies to Church of Happiness.
Number 9, add in Pegasus riders and hippogryph riders!
No problem. The char is not optimized (at least not intentionally) but for what the story is, does, and looks to do, is the right fit. I am not sure what the numbers will do to help determine what is fun about the character though. Let me know what you think (try to be nice).
All I would really want is 1) starting stats
Keywords being you. I want to see an actual experience where rogue fun was had. That shouldn't be hard for anyone who has had fun playing a rogue. Here: Character still being played by me (your YOU) 1) Half Elf Rogue 8/Fighter 1 (I regret taking this level) : Str 11 (+1 at level 8), Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14 (+1 at level 4), Wis 10, Cha 142) We are currently at level 9, still playing. 3) Feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip), Extra Rogue Talent, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Finesse 4) Traits?? Traits charming, forlorn. 5) Skill Totals: Acrobatics +16, Bluff +14 (+15 vs. characters who could be attracted to you), Climb +8, Diplomacy +12 (+13 vs. characters who could be attracted to you), Disable Device +18, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +11, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (local) +10, Perception +14 (+18 to locate traps), Sense Motive +5, Stealth +20, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +14. 6) Campaign based in Ustalav: Members of a secret organization based in Ustalav called the Order of the Scar, whose members have each been hurt the evils of the land. We discovered a plot by a splinter group of the Whispering Way to break Tar-Baphon out of his prison tower. The plot includes recovering a series of books made from the angel Tibyan's flesh describing all knowledge of the universe (see Book of the Damned). We have traveled thoughout the counties to thwart the evil cults attempts to find these artifact level books, and have so far clashed with all manner of evils. Adventures have ranged from battling barbarian fire orcs in a salt mine, to assaulting a sorcerer cabal,to rooting out nests of vampires, rescuing an ex-count from the Whispering Way, to just recently enacting a play to bluff our way into a Nobles manor. All have been great fun with this character, at no point did he feel helpless or useless (or even underpowered). Other Characters played (all of equal level)
The rogue is a more of the seedier/dirty side of the town character who is the info-gatherer, sometimes scout or support the scout. In combat, helps the others by providing bonuses, tripping, or finally leaping in to finish off an opponent. Somewhat of a dirty fighter. The character is fun, has been fun, and will be fun. Thanks for looking it over.
How about lesser weapons with the Globes of Invulnerability? Is an interesting thought.
Black tentacles and stinking cloud
From a player only perspective, as I do not run any games, it is a bit metepagame the way you pick the class, but honestly, all class choices are metagame anyways. The choices of low level = martial or the high level = caster is no big deal! that is just character choice for a campaign. I could see frustration with the mid-campaign switch, though not necessarily for the reasons given. In our groups, the party has advanced in a way that evolves arround the party composition. Casters taking spell selections that support the martials, martials taking feat selections to work better with the others, etc. . . When a character switches out roles so completely as RD seems to suggest, the other players are left with choices that are now less than what they had developed. Not sure if I am really making my point, but I can see that situation becoming frustrating for a group if it happens over every long runnig campaign. Now, a party that is not as supportive of each other, I cannot see it mattering at all.
Been thinking on this for the last few game sessions, and decided to keep track. With a mixed party (Sorc, Cleric, Fighter, Ranger, & Fighter/Rogue all L7) an equal CR fight lasted 4-7 rounds with 2 or less creatures, 5-10 rounds with 3 or more, and a solo 4+ rounds. Surprise by either side adds about +1/-1 to those totals essentially. Bigger areas usually increased those numbers by about half again. Edit: All of these suppose a restraint to be able to continue exploration beyond the combat and not "use it if you got it!" mentality.
Like both I and Amatsucan pointed out, I never said the Dwarf FELL. With your response, the only one making an ass of themselves is you TriOmegaZero. Seriously, your response was completely inappropriate.
Sorry, you make assumptions that the friend was unconscious. I did not see that in the post, just that the next hit would probably kill him. Please read the posts.
Legend Lore tells PC that divine/otherworldly/ancient being granted boon. Done. No solving mystery through game defined rules. Still a mystery. My point is that this is a thread about offering suggestions about how to maintain balance THROUGH the game world. The thread is not about tearing the suggestions down. Game world is all DM fiat and really that is mostly what any post here that stays to topic will be about. Sorry if you think I am offering offence, but I am just tired of almost every thread being hijacked for the same old tired arguments. Nothing new I guess. It is pretty much why I stopped following the boards a long time ago. Oh well . . . Good luck all and thanks to those whom posted to this thread with consideration to the OP intent. Sorry I did not (darn low will save bonus anyways!)
Ahhhh failed Will save . . . Anzyr: I am not misreading anything. Wrath started a great thread that was intended to be used to offer advice to prevent or curb rules bending or breaking by using the game world. Peter Stewat did just that. Then the "mystery in the world" was questioned as a viable bit of advice because the PC would have a skill to learn what caused the mystery. Therefore, DM Fiat if there is no game rule explaining all. No argument here by me, but anything that is done by the DM is Fiat. The whole rpg is DM fiat. Example: The Big Bad somehow got to be the Big Bad. BBEG in his past performed an impressive deed to help out a divine/otherworldly/ancient being. In gratitude, they gave him/his residence protections. Divine/otherworldly/ancients beings exist in the world in the books with most if not all of the powers undefined. PC's would have no chance to skill or divine the origin of the mysterious cause . . . Because the rule or spell does not exist. There are mysteries in a fantasy world that should exist, period. What I am trying (probably poorly) to point out, is that the thread is about balancing the game within the fabric of the game world. The thread is not about finding reasons that the suggestions should not work. Thanks. Also, silmulacrum = a bloody, mutilated, dead horse that has been picked over by a host of scavengers. It stinks and is covered in flies and wriggling maggots. Please let's just burn the corpse and move on.
Wow, I was actually enjoying the good ideas on this thread . . . Until Anzyr and the others started the (not unexpected) hijack. Would like to see other great ideas on "Using the game world to maintain balance" please. Less of the "the game world cannot help to keep things in line because = GM FIAT!!!! Thank you.
I have seen traps used as a delaying action to slow pursuit through his secret passages. Seems to make sense to me. Traps in ancient tombs, or the like seems to make sense as well. Traps just for traps sake, not worth all the time (or is trivialized to quickly).
I am not really arguing the "theory crafting" as you put it. From every well run game that I have participated in, the availability of the wizard having access to any spell that they want is limited. I realize that many games give unlimited access to resources in game, but do not see that . . . well, almost never in local games. Heck, even most AP's do not give unlimited downtime for the casters to sit around and learn every spell that they will ever need. The world goes on when the characters stop to do things other than adventuring or being heroes or whatever. I am also not arguing the "casters run out of spells", but more the casters cannot possibly have all the perfect spells memorized at the most appropriate time. Also, most groups that I have seen expect the casters to conserve spells for real need, not wasting spells when the martials have things in hand. Therefore, resting happens in logical timing, not just because the casters have run out of spells. I would also point out that most (if not all) AP's have numerous dungeon crawls. All in all, Magic Butterfly, I agree with you. I just think we have different experiences in the games we play in. In a well run campaign, there will be no flip, as it is a group game and all the classes will have an important role to play.
So how is this addressing the OP question? Back to OP: one of the things that I see that causes the flip to happen in real games (as opposed to the theories of) is the open ended wealth and a lack of applying the restrictions to arcane casters that are already in the game. Divine casters have less financial restrictions, and more of a moral restriction built into the class.
Ah yes, the days when your character had to use what you found . . . No magic emporiums where the players say "I buy X" and the GM says "ok, Y gold." The days when the wizards of the world prized their spells and rarely just shared or wrote scrolls for absolutely no reason. The days when leveling was done in a way that made a bit of senes instead of just happening when the party camped. Where there were no 18th level sixteen years olds. The days when a fighter would be 2-5 levels higher than the wizard always . . . I miss some of those days.
I agree! Awesome add to the library!
Been gaming for over 20+ years and most campaigns that I have seen run from levels 1 - 13ish in levels. With the experienced GM and a well defined world, the 'flip' can be put off for the entire thing, never happening. With a campaign that has little restrictions (gold, access to all spells, magic emporiums, etc), I find the 'flip' can happen at anytime from 1st level on. That really is the whole issue with the martial/caster 'flip' really.
Back in AD&D days I had an illusionist who had no form of attack spells. Used misdirection with illusions to make the other party members both look good and think he was powerful. Not sure how that would play anymore, but always wanted to try that concept again.
According to these boards . . . A fighter per core should never be played. 2400 plus posts can not be wrong.
A warp wood (L2 Druid) or shatter (L2 everyone else) spell timed well can shut down many archers for a bit. Most, I notice, do not carry a second bow.
I get yor point about Darkseids, but there is always something to be done to be helpful. There is plenty of fantasy history for taking on such a character: Bilbo Baggins, Shea Olmsford, Pug the Magician, etc. . . The reality argument does not hold up for saying that it is a GM failure. Using that logic, why would any higher level party take on any new member? By the point you are talking about, they would rarely need them. Plus that whole sharing treasure with a new member, lack of trust in an unknown new friend, or the fact that there is someone around that is as skilled, experienced, and "available" also makes little sense. This is a games where frequently, the idea of making sense is put aside and things are done for the convenience of playing. If that is the table rules (rechar at L1 or L2), then that is in no way "silly" or "make little sense". It is just that tables style. Roll with it and have fun!
Wow, really. I have run in many games where all new characters start at low (1st or 2nd) level dispite the current APL. Never have I not had a role to play. If that is how the campaign is structured, I do not see that as a GM failure in any way. Using your example, the simple policeman deals with Darkseids cronies, while the JL handles the big guy. The good GM offers multiple level challenges for the group. Has always been fun that I have seen. Even adding to the challenge of the higher levels.
Is the Saturday night game still running? I would be interested if you are still recruiting. |
