So I am imagining an academic and entrepreneur who was born and raised in Laredo, left to pursue his studies and his fortune, and is now coming home... He would be next a generation tech genius (TCP/IP, Radar, cellular telephones), have participated in some big startups (Cincinnati Microwaves, AOL, etc.), and would have all the latest gear (a powerful computer with access to TCP/IP, a cool car with a radar and a phone, an alarm system at home, etc.).
I like the idea of exploring what was hi-tech then, and playing a decidedly retro-modern character!
I think you're looking at something more like a lawful neutral paladin. There definitely aren't lawful good ningishzidda that are champions. I think a neutral evil anti-paladin with a strong emphasis on the law part would be the best fit.
Keep in mind that the 'cult of Apsu' is the cult administered by the Ensik -- the male ruler/king of the ningishzidda. There is no 'god' Apsu -- that is simply a concept or mythology for organizing the 'priesthood' of the Ensik's cult. The actual ritual functionaries are various occult classes, dragon disciples, shifters, and other casters. The porphyra system unifies all the spell lists, so there really isn't any difference between 'arcane' and 'divine' magic. There are 'casters' who get their power through the four elemental strongholds, as well as the other subsidiary elemental planes, and there are others that use the power sources like the sun/moon/defiling/preserving. This overlaps in some areas. It's more a fluff issue than a mechanical one.
Apologies. Found it. Would you, therefore, accept a LN paladin or a NE Antipaladin? Or should I simply avoid the question entirely, which I could certainly do...?
Got it! That's how I had interpreted the information on the campaign tab... Building this character, while fun, is proving to be a bit of a headache!
I never did get an answer: Paladin? Antipaladin? Could the first work in this world? I somewhat prefer the Paladin to the Antipaladin, but I could go either way... And, in any case, could a Sacred Shield's aura of light/daylight become an aura of dimness/darkness?
So I'm thinking Paladin + Warder + Mythic Gestalt... Splintersoul Vigilante! It would give the character a tormented and potential dangerous affiliation to the counterpower and to the awakened blink dogs. Could that work?
The cult of Apsu... This is a question for the GM, and for players as well: would a Paladin be poorly received?
And would a paladin even make sense in this environment? I'm a big fan of the class but, while I do like playing the ever-so-good character, I find that alignments are over-simple. Long story short: should I build a paladin or an anti-paladin?!
Yeah. The Armiger's mark is key. But I'm still trying to figure out how it could activate against very powerful – read potentially near-impossible to hit and damage – foes... Basically, I am trying to figure out how to aggro attacks. And survive, of course!
That being said, you were here first, so if you want to play Mr. De-buffer, I'll look elsewhere!
...And it would be interesting to have a both the King's champion and the King's guard on the bench!
First Apprentice to the Archmage
Chief Assistant to the Companion's Envoy to the Lands of the Well (this is the blink dog)
The First Sword of the King's Champion.
The Queen's favourite Spy-Assassin
The Foremost 'Lone-Wolf'/Free Investigator
Archer Initiate of the Royal Master Sniper
In this light, I am imagining an Ordained Warder and Sacred Shield who is dedicated to either Apsu (Paladin) or Tiamat (Antipaladin)… Which begs the question: how would a paladin play out, if at all, in this world? I’ve always had trouble with the narrow descriptions of alignments and this is particularly true when it comes to worlds such as these! A perfectly Lawful character could be true to terribly draconic and bloody rules? And a good character could be dedicated to his people while steadfastly and violently opposed to the enemy of his people?
How does the cult of Apsu play out in this environment? I assume that there is some semblance of peace between the Houses – that they vie for power and influence, but generally, remain civil? Long story short, one could imagine a situation – perhaps such as this one – that would require the King’s and the Queen’s agents to cooperate despite their inclinations?
And, given how time-consuming these builds can become, would it be pertinent for interested players to specify what sort of character they are working towards before everyone gets to work? To be clear, I have in mind some sort of aggro tank character (Warder + Paladin + who knows what!), but I wouldn't want to step on anyone's toes and could easily think up some other madness!
Also: how many players would be invited to the table?
...scanning the discussion in the recruitment thread leads me to this conclusion: the greater the power, the greater the need for players – with the GM's help and guidance – to collaborate to create characters that are unique and distinctive. With these rules, it is possible to build amazing and surprising characters, but if they're redundant, or if one character eclipses all others, the whole thing falls apart...?
Note that, while my comment could point to bench pressing, my point is more about concepts, domains, and relationships. Likely, all these characters would know each other! What are their ties? Why do they work together? Do they get along? And if not, why do they still agree to collaborate?
One final question: number of players? IMHO, less is more, but that's just me!
Well, I wanted the character to be a tad grittier and edgier!
(And I should have studied the decrees more attentively!)
Of the three options, my gut reaction is to go with the first. He’s a banker who believes that banking and government should operate distinctly, but who pretends to play by the rules in order to continue to run his business… However, are all bankers Abadaran or does it remain conceivable for a banker to follow Erastil?
Personally, I like it. The stakes are higher. What do you think?
Yeah, Erastil… I considered going with the more obvious Abadar, but I like the idea of a banker who is somewhat outside the norm and perhaps more of a humanist – i.e. “trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment” (loosely quoted from Kurt Vonnegut). Long story short, he believes in the Equalitarian ideal insofar as he opines that everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law and that all should have the opportunity to succeed. But, being a banker, he remains something of an oddity and an outsider, which has prompted him to set up shop in the outskirts of Le Commune and to establish relationships with all sorts of people.
“All sorts of people” is to be developed, obviously.
Two questions:
1) Does he need a better “hook” or are his political opinions and ideals enough to warrant joining the Conspiracy? I can easily imagine that he would be at odds with the powers that be, but perhaps you would prefer a more specific turning point? Should there be an event that motivated and continues to drive his rebellious inclination?
2) Is he too squeaky clean? I intend for him to be willing to justify the means and ready to be ruthless if the situation requires it, but I like the idea of it not being matter-of-factly. I think that there’s a character arc there that could be explored and exploited, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts.
First of all, thanks for taking the time to study and comment on my outline. It helps, and I’ll attempt to take your advice into account with equal attention.
Second, my apologies for overstepping. I got carried away reading up on the French Revolution, Jacques Necker, and the history of banking!
In any case, here goes a revised outline…
1. I’ll simplify the build. And the Oathkeeper Inquisitor is perfect! So it would be: LN Human Investigator (Sleuth & Conspirator) + Inquisitor (Oathkeeper). I would take Local Business Owner as a campaign trait and probably Deadeye Bowman as a religion trait.
2. As you suggested, I will focus on playing a ‘well-established banker to those honest folk starting out or down on their luck’, and leave everything else out of the equation. He runs a small bank in the outskirts of la Commune, called La Caisse d’Escompte (The Savings Bank).
3. When he’s not at the office, he can be found standing watch on Deadeye’s Perch, helping out in the Orchard or in Claire’s Kitchen, or having a pint at the All for One pub. He is a follower of Erastil and dedicated to his community.
4. He supports the Egalitarian Party and believes that 1) banking and government should remain separate, 2) all should be equal in the eyes of the law, 3) ‘a prosperous city can uplift and enrich more people than pious prayers alone’ (in the future, I’ll make sure to give proper credit when “stealing” content), and 4) justice should be fair and impartial.
5. Driven by his desire to improve the lives of the good people of his community, he is a deliberate and even-tempered professional with an engaging and empathic demeanour. Confident and industrious, he prides himself on his honesty and integrity.
6. La Caisse d’Escompte 1) offers small loans at fair rates to struggling merchants, 2) takes an active interest in the success of clients by drumming up business, offering expert advice, and introducing merchants to potential partners and investors, and 3) invests in promising business ventures to influence trade positively in Le Commune.
7. La Caisse d’Escompte is a Bank (with a kitchen, a bedroom, a lavatory, and a fortified vault with a superior lock) that employs Bureaucrats and Elite Guards. No Lackeys. No “investments.”
Got it. Thanks, Lily! Any thoughts on the character outline in light of your experience in the campaign? Mechanically, he's essentially a skill monkey with a side order of righteousness and some skill with the longbow...
1. blessed by Erastil
—> dedicated to the people of Le Commune and to safeguarding the Victory Orchard
2. an able archer who did his service and proved his worth
—> respected by the local Deadeyes
3. respected as a fair, lawful, and trustworthy banker who is dedicated to ensuring the economic prosperity of Galt
—> offer small loans at fair rates to struggling merchants to garner goodwill
—> help merchants to succeed and to repay their debts
—> collaborate with good and prosperous merchants for profit and to influence trade positively in the quarter and in the city
—> participate in promising ventures for profit
—> supply government and military for profit and to ensure good relationships
—> defend key assets to help the cause
4. his small bank (La Caisse d’Escompte) in Le Commune weathered the storms of unrest and has endured while most others have shut their doors or been forced to do so
5. having invested in a few local businesses, he supplies the army and the council with grain, leather, and metals; and thus, he ensures his good standing
6. He supports the Egalitarian Party
7. a skilled and clever investigator
—> separate proper and promising business ventures from cons and frauds
—> establish if merchants are honest tradespeople or swindlers
—> ascertain the worth of businesses and their owners
—> decide when businesses have been wronged and acquire evidence to seek justice
—> come to the aid of the middle class and, in particular, followers of Erastil and inhabitants of Le Commune
OPINIONS:
1. he advocates for the separation of banks and government, which was one of the important gains of the French Revolution
2. he believes in Equality before the Law
3. a prosperous city can uplift and enrich more people than pious prayers alone
In terms of build, I am looking at a LG Human Nature oracle 1 + Fighter 2 + Paladin (Knight of the Coin) 2 / Investigator (Sleuth & Conspirator) 5
Buildings and Teams:
BANK
Create 39 Goods, 3 Influence, 35 Labor (1,570 gp)
Rooms 1 Guard Post, 2 Offices, 1 Secret Room, 1 Storefront, 2 Vaults
A secure building for storing coins and valuables, and for making loans to those in need.
+ Kitchen (160 gp)
+ Bedroom (300 gp)
+ Lavatory (120 gp)
Note: one of the vaults has a superior lock (150 gp) and is Fortified (300 gp)
BUREAUCRATS
Earnings gp or Influence +4
Create 2 Goods, 4 Influence, 2 Labor (200 gp); Time 2 days
Size 5 people
Upgrade From Scofflaws, Soldiers
Bureaucrats interface with local government and deal with annoying paperwork related to running a business or organization. This type of team could include accountants, diplomats, lawyers, and scribes. A typical bureaucrat is a 1st-, 2nd-, or 3rd-level expert with ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), Linguistics, and Profession (barrister, clerk, or scribe).
ELITE GUARDS
Earnings gp, Influence, or Labor +4
Create 3 Goods, 1 Influence, 4 Labor (170 gp); Time 2 days; Size 5 people
Upgrades From Guards; Upgrades To Elite Soldiers
Like Guards, this team defends a location but doesn’t take on an active role. An Elite Guards team consists of 3rd-level warriors, each wearing a chain shirt or banded mail and using a heavy steel shield and shortspear, a guisarme, or a halberd.
LACKEYS
Earnings Influence or Labor +2
Create 1 Goods, 2 Influence, 2 Labor (120 gp); Time 1 day
Size 5 people
Upgrades From Drivers, Laborers
Lackeys wait on you hand and foot and take care of common domestic and traveling issues; their ranks include butlers, valets, maids, heralds, footmen, ladies-in-waiting, and similar service personnel. Skilled Lackeys anticipate your needs and coordinate with your other employees as well as those of your guests or host. A typical Lackey is a 1st-level commoner or expert with ranks in a subset of Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility), Linguistics, Perception, and Sense Motive.
INVESTMENTS:
Leather Workshop
Earnings gp or Goods +10
Benefit counts as masterwork artisan’s tools for leatherworking skills
Create 7 Goods, 1 Influence, 7 Labor (310 gp); Time 16 days; Size 4–10 squares
This workshop includes a sturdy table, stool, vats, drying racks, and tools designed for turning raw hides into leather. The Leather Workshop counts as masterwork artisan’s tools for up to three people creating leather goods with skills such as Craft (leather) and Craft (shoes).
Farmland (grain)
Earnings gp or Goods +10
Create 15 Goods, 15 Labor (600 gp); Time 20 days; Size 60–100 squares
This large swath of fertile land is used for farming or fodder for livestock. The price for this room includes clearing the land, fertilizing the soil, and so on. At the GM’s discretion, you might discover a plot of available land that automatically counts as a Farmland at no cost.
Forge (metal)
Earnings gp or Goods +10
Benefit counts as masterwork artisan’s tools for smithing skills
Create 9 Goods, 1 Influence, 8 Labor (370 gp); Time 20 days; Size 8–16 squares
A Forge includes a hearth, an anvil, a slack tub, metalworking tools, and other appropriate materials for shaping iron and other metals. A Forge counts as masterwork artisan’s tools for up to three people working on metalworking skills such as Craft (armor) and Craft (weapons).
A few questions:
1. do we begin with a contact?
2. do buildings come with labour? For example, does a Forge come with Smiths?
@Monkeygod: does the build work for you? How about the artifact?
EDIT: I changed the artifact as, upon reflection, I figured that managing hordes of undead might not be so much fun with so many players involved in the game...
Don't get me wrong: I am fully ok with nerfing the character! It's no fun to play if you're not all playing the same game. I'll have a look at the math and rules next week...
So... With the lower charisma, his AC and attacks are green. And his damage is yellow to green, I think – to be honest, I am not quite sure how to calculate EDV.
His saves are still insane, but that is to be expected for a high charisma Paladin, isn't it?
Obviously, I still have a fair amount of work to do... These builds are great fun, but they are ridiculously time-consuming!
The idea is that he will draw as many attacks as possible – he is meant as a tank of sorts. The saves are merely a byproduct of his high charisma, which could, of course, be reduced...
These builds are very complex and it becomes easy to get lost in the min-max math!
A few final questions, and then I'll (finally) get my submission together: considering the evident parallel between the classes, any chance an Antipaladin could use a Paladin Archetype, namely Shining Knight, if said Antipaladin is a Paladin who was raised to the dark side?
Similarly, would it be conceivable to steal a few spells from the Paladin list? Specifically: Challenge Evil (Good), Knight's Calling, Paladin's Sacrifice, and King's Castle?
To be clear: while I had understood that there would be some shady types on the team, I had not figured out that we were going for a decidedly evil party! Works for me as, originally, I wanted to build an Antipaladin but thought CE would simply too far from the generally acceptable alignments!
Hooray!
I'll have to reconsider the Ring of Equilibrium story and find something else that is equally compelling...
uh oh. I have the feeling our characters aren't going to play well together. this is the artifact I was mentioning as being the inspiration for my character. Basically, he's the evil copy that got made when someone used the ring and is hunting down all other duplicates which he considers to be abominations.
Amazing! I would be the good copy gone wrong. And you would be the evil copy... Gone right? And perhaps because we are not so black and white, we end up in a bizarre alliance against those who brought us back in the first place?
Perhaps, given that the ring itself will likely be my character's artifact, I have the master ring of The Original. And together, we are hunting down all the miserable undead that have been created over the years before we can kill ourselves and end the curse once and for all?
It begs the question: why now, after so many reincarnations, would the Original change his heart? Maybe something about your character broke the endless cycle and broke the delicate balance?
With regards to the character concept and the artifact, which are becoming increasingly intertwined, would it be acceptable to have a LG paladin who – being an undead – channels negative, rather than positive, energy?
Re: Bench-pressing: at first glance, the character remains reasonable despite my best efforts! Admittedly, the saves are very high, but that is to be expected. Otherwise, attack and AC are orange to green ... I haven't crunched all the numbers, but I don't expect them to go very much higher, so probably safely in the green zone.
