Aldarionn's page

Aldarionn wrote:

The SRD still lists Sylph and Ifrit as having a 1/2 level to one revelation bonus. Any idea if that was nerfed or are those two races still viable for this?

That is an error at the d20pfsrd site. The Paizo PRD and the Archives of Nethys both give these races a +1/6 level bonus.

Thank you. That's what I wanted to know.

Aldarionn wrote:

so it's easy to extrapolate what a higher than 20 companion would look like

A Half Elf or Aasimar Lunar Oracle can get a level 30 Animal Companion without any of this

Yes, easy for the GM to create something beyond 21. But it wouldn't be a rule.

Actually no, Lunar Oracle can at best do 23. It isn't 1/2 anymore, it is 1/6.

Huh, I didn't see that.

The SRD still lists Sylph and Ifrit as having a 1/2 level to one revelation bonus. Any idea if that was nerfed or are those two races still viable for this?

Also strictly speaking there IS a set of rules in the base rulebook that allows for advancement beyond 20th level in a pinch, and not just for the GM. The GM has to approve their use, but if you had a means of scaling an animal companion above your level you could use them for this purpose. See the rules here.

The relevant section is "Advancing Beyond 20th Level".

I'm 100% aware that there are no rules for a companion above 20, just as there are no rules for any PC to level above 20. That said, progression is constant for abilities, base attack, etc... and follows a set path so it's easy to extrapolate what a higher than 20 companion would look like from a purely stat-based standpoint. Additionally this same question could be asked of a level 10 Sorcerer. Robe of Arcane Heritage would bring Sorcerer level to 14, so you would have a companion level 11 while you yourself are only level 10.

A Half Elf or Aasimar Lunar Oracle can get a level 30 Animal Companion without any of this BS. I was just trying to find a means of getting a higher level Companion on an Arcane Spellcaster. It was merely a thought exercise for stacking abilities and order of operations.

Scenario:

I have a 20th level Sorcerer with the Sylvan (Wildblood) Bloodline. At 1st level, I gain an animal companion. My effective druid level for this ability is equal to my sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). At level 20 this gives me an effective druid level of 17. I take the Boon Companion feat and wear a Robe of Arcane Heritage. Relevant Text Below.

Boon Companion

The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level....
(Emphasis Mine)

Character Level
The total level of the character, which is the sum of all class levels held by that character.

Robe of Arcane Heritage
...The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
(Emphasis Mine)

There's a lot going on here. I bolded the important phrases. My question is, what is the order of operations for this calculation and how does the Robe interact with Boon Companion? Here is my interpretation:

1 - Calculate sorcerer level (20+4=24 for Bloodline)

2 - Calculate effective druid level (24-3=21)
3 - Attempt to apply Boon Companion since it modifies effective druid level. You cannot apply it because your sorcerer level is 21, which is higher than your character level (20).

Is this a correct interpretation, or can I use the 4 Sorcerer levels gained from the robe to calculate my "character level" for purposes of applying Boon Companion to my Animal Companion ability?

That is most definitely a thought, and one I might consider going with since it would save me a lot of development time. I would want to pick up a copy of City of Strangers before developing the campaign further but it seems like a reasonable option. I have the Shattered Star Adventure Path which has a book taking place in the city too, so I can use that.

Thanks for the tip.

The one reservation I had is that the denizens of the city are all effectively at conflict with one another. Different groups inhabit different sections of the city and often end up fighting, from what I've read. How do you think they would all react to having an ancient dread lich of unknowable power rising up with a hoard of undead from below to slaughter thousands. Don't you think they would just scatter to the winds? I mean Kaer Maga is the Asylum Stone. It's home to miscreants and thievs and nerdowells from all over. They don't exactly have strong ties to one another.

Also, how well would the PC's fair delving into the catacombs of Kaer Maga at level 1? I might have to start them at a higher level or run with some pre-adventure stuff to get them to level 6-8 before I start with the main campaign arc.

Some advice in that area would be helpful.

I'm developing a homebrew Pathfinder campaign and I want to set it on Golarion so I don't have to spend a bunch of time and effort building my own campaign setting or just using a generic world. I like Golarion so I want to use it. The trouble I'm running into is where to have my campaign take place.

Here's an overview:

TL;DR - The PC's start in a large city in mountainous terrain inadvertently build over a set of catacombs under the mountain. They investigate monster attacks, find the catacombs, explore those catacombs and end up inadvertently waking an ancient dread lich who ravages the city and turns it into his personal necropolis. PC's then must liberate the city through the course of the campaign.

So my question is, where do I set such a campaign in the world of Golarion? I'd like it to be set in the north if possible, where frigid mountain peaks are common and the winter seasons are harsh. The environment will play a part in this campaign later. Brevoy looks like a reasonable location, and it's the best I've come up with so far. The Land of the Linnorm Kings doesn't make sense because the Linnorm Kings are likely equal in power to the ancient Lich. Irrisen isn't great either since it's already ruled over by the White Witches and I don't want to involve them.

Perhaps somewhere in northern Varisia? If anyone knows any cold-climate areas that would have large cities built near mountainous terrain where I could simply plop down a pre-made city it would be helpful.

I'm open to advice!

By the way, there is a feat in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting for Gunslingers that mimics Point Blank Master:

Gunslinger

Granted it's not base book, so definitely check with your GM before using it, but it specifically works as PBM with firearms with prerequisites a Gunslinger can meet.

Of course it does NOT prevent the AOO from reloading, so there is that...

I'm playing a Dwarf Ranger with the Giant Blooded Campaign Trait.

I built the character as a Switch Hitter (Thank you TreantMonk for your excellent guide) which is something I've never done before so it should be interesting! For flavor, my DM is letting me use a two-handed axe with Falchion stats but 1D8 for damage instead of 2d4. It's a minor change but it makes sense. I want a high crit chance rather than high multiplier, but axes and hammers are the opposite. I call it Axion! My animal companion is going to be a boar.

It's not a min-maxed character by any means but I have solid feat selection and some reasonably good anti-giant stuff from my race so I think I should be fine.

Backstory:

Davyn Emberfyst hails from Janderhoff. His large size for a Dwarf lead to whispered rumors and mistreatment at the hands of his peers, so he sought refuge in the wilds surrounding his home. He found acceptance in the people of Trunau who cared not that he was oddly large for a Dwarf, or what race he was for that matter. They only cared that he regularly supplied the town with food and furs from local game, and occasionally brought in bundles of Orc heads to fill bounties.

Trunau provided Davyn with a home away from home where he could learn the ways of survival and self reliance, and fill his pockets with coin and his belly with ale. It was a refreshing change of pace from the stuffy halls of the Sky Citadel where he grew up. Of course Trunau had a funny way of attracting Orc raids.....

It's pretty basic, but seems like a good start! We start playing tomorrow.

You might check Privateer Press for some stuff. Their new Convergence line are all robotic, so they may have some things you might find interesting.

Also Infinity may have a few models to represent Technomancer characters, or some of the more advanced and high-tech members of the Technic League. I'm a player so I don't know what all you might need, but I know Infinity has some cool Power Armor and weapons which fit the theme.

I got nothin for the Kasatha. 4-armed creatures are harder to come across.

vital strike:

When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
emphasis mine.

when you cast a spell you don't use the "attack action" you are spending a standard a ction to cast a spell.

This is correct.

It should also be noted that certain monster attacks that deal large numbers of dice of damage CAN be modified by Vital Strike. Eye Rays for example are activated using the attack action (See the Jabberwock), so if the monster has an Eye Ray that does, say, 15d6 damage and Greater Vital Strike he could use the two together for a total of 60d6 damage.

Kingmaker spoilers:

If you can finagle a way to gain Dex to damage with a monowhip, then yes indeed you can apply that modifier to your monowhip. The monowhip only prevents Strength from modifying damage... which makes it more or less a great weapon for a character who has a Strength penalty. If you can get another ability score to adjust damage to the weapon, it works fine that way.

Slashing Grace not counting for light weapons is, I can only hope, an error that will be eventually cleared up in an errata... although that's not my call, alas. My assumption is that this text was initially meant to say something like "choose any one-handed or smaller slashing weapon," since there are no flavor reasons to prevent swashbucklers from using light slashing weapons, and since light weapons do less damage than one-handed ones I can't think of a game balance reason to limit it as well. But again... not my call. FAQ the question though, and maybe it'll get fixed!!!

The agile weapon quality would work fine on a monowhip, in any event.

That's news to me. Can we get an official clarification/errata on this?

The Monowhip disallows strength from modifying damage.
The Agile weapon property lets you apply Dexterity to damage in place of strength
Ergo, if you cannot apply strength to damage, you cannot replace adding strength to damage with dexterity because there is nothing to replace.

At least that's how the vast majority of people have assumed it works per the RAW in all such cases.

Thanks for all the input!

I'll be using this trick in the final stages of Kingmaker. Spoilers below:

I'd read it like Aldarionn, but that reading has a further implication. You must specify all details of the triggered spell at casting time. No contingent-teleport when I reach 10% HP that I pick the destination when it fires.

Either way seems reasonable, as long as it's consistent in a campaign.

That's what I'm reading, which means the Contingency Dimension Door when below 20 HP I've been using since level 12 wouldn't actually work since I'd have to specify direction and distance when I originally cast the spell. Contingency Teleport works better since the range is far less of a limiting factor and you pick a specific place. I think when I DM for all future campaigns I will go with that interpretation. It's cleaner and makes more sense. It is, after all, a contingency that works if you want it to or not, so it would make sense that you set everything up in advance down to the last detail of the Companion Spell.

I'll run it by my DM and see what he thinks, but I imagine he will read it much like I do.

@ Lifat - Here is the wording for Contingency:

You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead. You must pay any costs associated with the companion spell when you cast contingency.

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being "cast" instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when triggered. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.

You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.

Emphasis mine.

Since the Contingency and the Companion Spell are both cast at the same time, one would assume that you MUST specify a destination for the spell at the time you cast Contingency by the RAW. The second bold section simply states that the Contingency brings into effect or "casts" the spell at the time the Contingency is triggered. It seems as though you must specify everything about the Companion Spell at the time you originally cast it with Contingency.

I could be wrong though. That's why I am asking for other people's interpretations.

As the title says, can I cast Contingency and Teleport with a trigger of "My death" and specify a location for the Teleport in advance? I know I can select Teleport if I'm high enough level, but can I select a location in advance of the Teleport going off as a result of the Contingency?

For example, I'm a 15th level Wizard and I've set up a Clone back at the party base of operations. In the event of my death, my soul would be instantly transported to my new Clone body and I'd wake up back at our base.

The problem is the body with all of my specialized and expensive equipment is still at the scene of my untimely demise, ostensibly with someone who won't want to give it back. One option is to leave a secondary set of more generic equipment with the Clone, and a copy of my Spellbook, however this is expensive and leaves me at a reduced level of power. I'd be less likely to be able to recover my stuff.

If on the other hand I could cast Contingency and pick Teleport as the companion spell, then specify "my death" as the trigger and "my base of operations at X location" for the Teleport at the time of casting, then my corpse along with everything on it would be transported to a place I am very familiar with, leaving me with a 97% chance of my original body and my replacement being in the same place. I'd be conscious and able to grab my gear and mount a rescue on the rest of the party.

Thoughts?

Not really liking Arcanist. I tend to dislike spontaneous casters because of their late entry into each spell level. Having to stick with 1st level spells until level 4 is just something I never learned to accept.

I've gone with a Conjuration specialist Wizard, and I plan on taking the following feats:

1-Spell Focus (Conjuration)
3-Augment Summoning
5-Evolved Summoned Monster
5-(Bonus) Craft Wondrous Items
7-Evolved Summoned Monster
9-Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
10-(Bonus) Craft Rod
11-Improved Initiative
13-??
15-Craft Staff
15-(Bonus) Staff-Like Wand

The campaign ends at 16 so I didn't bother planning beyond that.

The general idea is that I will summon Earth Elementals at each level and use Evolved Summoned Monster to give them a bite and a pair of claws in addition to their slam. They tend to have higher strength than cats of equal level and better HP/AC so I'm going to use that to my advantage in combat.

Once I develop a name for the character I'll post the backstory idea I have so far. Any name suggesions for an Android Tech-Wizard would be helpful! Also any suggestions for a feat at 13th level I guess. Haven't decided what to take there.

Well, that's what I thought but apparently that isn't what others in my gaming group are reading. Seems to me the wielder has a 50/50 chance of instant unavoidable death or planar-relocation, and everyone else has a save for massive damage.

Their argument is that there is nothing in the first section that excludes the caster (basically he is considered within 10 feet of the staff) so he suffers both the save for massive damage, and then if he survives a 50% chance of instant death or planar-relocation. By RAW it seems to read that way, but I am almost 100% positive that is not the intent.

I know how I would rule it at my table. I guess it's their prerogative to use the exact RAW at their table instead of RAI.

As the title.

Here's Retributive Strike:

A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder. All charges in the staff are released in a 30-foot spread. All within 10 feet of the broken staff take hit points of damage equal to 8 times the number of charges in the staff, those between 11 feet and 20 feet away take points equal to 6 times the number of charges, and those 21 feet to 30 feet distant take 4 times the number of charges. A DC 23 Reflex save reduces damage by half.

The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (01—50 on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if she does not (51—100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her (no saving throw).

My question is, does the wielder still take damage from the staff's Retributive Strike power even if he ends up sent to another plane?

My interpretation is that the wielder breaks the staff, then rolls a d%. 1-50 he goes to another plane. 51-100 he is destroyed with no save by the staff's blast. Everyone else takes the blast damage from the staff. That seems to be the way the wording reads, but I'm in a debate with friends who feel the wielder should take the damage from the staff regardless of the outcome because it's listed first in the description.

Thoughts?

Wiggz makes excellent points, and is very correct in that a Sorcerer will have plenty of options. Their focus is narrower but they can use the tools of that focus in any combination which lends them a certain amount of versatility.

What I tend to dislike about the class is that they gain access to new spells a level later than Wizards, and if prestige classes are your thing many of them reduce your effective Sorcerer level pushing back the level at which you gain spells even further, and potentially delaying your Bloodline powers (Get a Robe of Arcane Heritage ASAP!). They also take a few levels before their spell list has any depth at the top end, so when they hit 6th level they REALLY have to choose which of those 3rd level spells they want all of their 3rd level castings to go into.

Wizards on the other hand have that theoretical access, and there is a mechanic in place by which one can obtain spells by purchasing scrolls. If a Wizard badly wants access to a spell, he can usually find it in a town by making checks each day to locate it. If the town is big enough he may not even need to make checks. Additionally if an enemy Wizard is encountered and killed, a Wilzard can gain a decent chunk of knowledge if they locate his spellbook.

None of this is guaranteed, sure, but if you run adventure paths the devs tend to throw bones to each class in turn. Kingmaker has an ENORMOUS bonus for Wizards, and Skull & Shackles is full of enemy spellcasters that drop scrolls, spellbooks and other items of note that both Wizards and Sorcerers will find useful.

Make no mistake, neither class is strictly better than the other. It all comes down to style, and I prefer the Wizard because if you are smart about your decisions you can often find yourself with the tools you need when you need them. Wizards are much more of a support character, so spells like Glitterdust, Grease, Haste, Slow, and Summon spells will almost always be useful for helping your party "win". You might run out of them faster, but if a Sorcerer picks Scorching Ray at level 4 as his one 2nd level spell, he could end up facing any of the multitude of fire-based creatures in the game that will pretty much ignore it, regardless of his ability to cast it 3+ times per day (Read: invest in the Elemental Spell Metamagic Feat, or a Rod!) The Wizard may also have to prepare his Metamagic ahead of time, but when he casts it he can also move, or draw a rod to add to it that round where a Sorcerer basically has to stand still and use his entire turn.

I've played far fewer Sorcerers than Wizards though, and I have not read all of the Sorcerer guides in the Advice forum so I'm less familiar with Sorcerer options than I am with Wizard. Take my opinion of the Sorcerer with a grain of salt, and certainly look to others on these forums for the virtues of the Sorcerer before you make your decision. They may not fit my style very well but they might fit yours.

WIZARDS
Wizards have a spellbook, and can add any number of spells to that spellbook over time. They learn two free spells of any level they can cast at each level, and they can learn more by copying them into their spellbook from scrolls or copying them from another wizards spellbook. This costs money and becomes more expensive as you level up.

Wizards are the ultimate in versatility because ostensibly they have access to every spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list if they are willing to pay the cost to get a scroll and scribe it into their book. From then on they can memorize that spell any time. If a Wizard has some idea of what he will be fighting, he can tailor his spell list for the day to be seriously effective against that target.

Wizards are intelligent, often lawful and generally very logical. They are very much the "classic mage" whose magic knowledge comes from study and applying oneself to the discovery of magical power. A Wizard is only as good as his spellbook and without it he can do very little, but with it he can change the world around him.

SORCERERS
Sorcerers have magic in their blood, and they cast spells spontaneously from a short list of spells that they know. They are born with their magical abilities, or develop them from having some kind of magical heritage in past generations. Be it from Dragons, Demons, Angels, Fey or just raw magical energy, someone in a Sorcerers family tree was touched by magic and it manifested in the Sorcerers bloodline.

A Sorcerer knows only a very limited number of spells that she picks each level and cannot change, but she can cast any of these spells any number of times per day up to her maximum castings for each level. She does not have anywhere near the depth of magic that a Wizard does, but she can use it much more often. Sorcerers are the ultimate specialists. They pick a focus and that's all they do. They make great blasters, and can often use their bloodline powers to fuel this focus. As they get more powerful and level up, their bloodlines manifest themselves in different ways giving them access to modifications to their spells, skills and physical abilities.

Sorcerers have a very wide range of bloodlines and can fill many roles from blaster to front-line striker, but they are not versatile due to the limited number of spells they know. Unlike a Wizard they lack the ability to change the spells they have access to each day.

COMPARISON
Personally I prefer Wizards, because they fit my style of play more but Sorcerers can be a boatload of fun depending on the bloodline you pick. A Wizard is a great Knowledge-Monkey and an excellent party support character that can buff his allies, debuff his opponents and fill the battlefield with alternate targets to keep his friends from taking damage. He almost always knows the capabilities of his enemies and if given even a day to prepare he can heavily sway the battle in his parties favor. Even still with good spell selection a Wizard can generally perform his role well, but he rarely gets the glory. A Wizards allies usually do his killing for him. The Wizards job is to make this as easy as possible.

Sorcerers fly by the seat of their pants, and generally seek to overcome their lack of versatility with raw power. They tend to be damage dealers in one fashion or another and while many options are open to them, they must pick a narrow focus and so can be thrown off if facing the wrong opponent. Wizards can have this happen as well, but not as often. Sorcerers make up for it by having access to more castings each day and generally being able to last longer in combat. With good resource management they can save those vital spell castings for use where they really matter. Sorcerers are a more "glorious" class to play than Wizards due to their higher damage dealing potential. They are usually more likable too since they use their Charisma as a primary stat. They make an excellent "party face" where a Wizard usually does not.

Which one you choose is a personal choice best determined by your style of play. If you like wading into combat and slinging spells around while rolling lots of dice for damage then a Sorcerer is probably your best bet. It's a high-risk high-reward style of play. If instead you like being the man with all the answers and prefer to pull the strings of combat from a less prominent role then a Wizard will suit you better. I personally prefer the latter.

NOTE:The Advanced Class Guide is being released shortly and includes the class Arcanist, which is a combination of Wizard and Sorcerer. It combines aspects of both classes to allow for the breadth of spell knowledge that a Wizard has with the versatility of Spontaneous casting like a Sorcerer. Overall they cast less than Sorcerers but they can change which spells they "know" from their spellbook each day. It's pretty interesting so if you are looking for elements of both classes you might look into it and talk to your DM about it!

Oh I don't plan to change any mechanics at all. I'm looking for the best set of mechanics that I can find to support the concept of the character.

The character might cast a Magic Missile spell, but from an aesthetic point of view a ring of tiny missile launchers opens up around his wrist releasing projectiles that seek targets unerringly. A "fireball" might be represented by tossing a micro-grenade. A Mage Armor spell might instead be represented by tiny projectors implanted along the characters torso and vital areas that project panels of hard light. Those same projectors might also be able to allow the character to call forth a construct made entirely of hardlight in the form of an Eagle (using the stats for an Eagle).

I'm basically just trying to find out what class most seamlessly integrates with this theme and allows for the easiest aesthetic adjustment without changing mechanics.

You could go for a sage bloodline sorcerer, which runs off of Intelligence instead of Charisma. I've certainly considered it a time or two, though my thoughts were more towards a magical programming theme, with glowing sigils resembling circuitry forming in midair as he says, "force.projectile.count=3.exe"...

A summoner could work reasonably well, perhaps a master summoner if you really want to focus on the summoning angle. Resolute summons, perhaps? Lantern archon makes for a good drone or something similar.

Arcanist could definitely work out well, I think, though you'll have to wait and see what the final version is like.

For that matter, there might be some archetypes in Advanced Class Guide that will be particularly suited...and I understand there are some upcoming tech-related archetypes in the Technology Guide, so it's possible one of those would suit. If you think you can hack the math, there's some oddball numerology spells in Occult Mysteries which could be flavorful if you want to add in some math...but steer clear if you can't do it quickly, or you'll just clog up gameplay.

I thought of that Sorcerer build but you lose the Arcane Bond which is a big hit. Also it's a module so I may never have access to the capstone ability depending on what level it goes to. Robe of Arcane Heritage is nice through, and may solve that particular issue.

I think I will wait til the Class Guide is released for Arcanist to make my final decision but Sorcerer could definitely work....

I started a similar thread in the advice forums but I figured I'd ask here as well.

I'm looking for mechanics ideas for fleshing out an Android Spellcaster concept. Instead of spells the character would use tech upgrades in his own body to project Hardlight Constructs (Like Drones and Barriers in Mass Effect) or integrated weapon system to throw Evocation type spells. Think a Mass Effect Sentinel for concept.

The obvious build would be a Conjuration specialist Wizard, but I'm playing a Wizard in another campaign. It's a different build and I don't mind playing the same class twice but something different would be cool.

Any suggestions for class and build options using this theme would be great!

I have an idea for a character design for Iron Gods and I'm looking for some input on character build. I don't have backstory fleshed out yet, but the general idea is an Android Spellcaster of some kind (Arcane caster) whose spells are not actually magic. Instead they are Hardlight Projections or the result of tech upgrades in his own body. As he gains power he awakens more and more of these pieces of technology and learns to use them.

Summons and Conjuration spells would be Hardlight Constructs (a-la drones or barriers in Mass Effect). Evocation/blast type spells would be integrated weapon systems in the characters body. Etc...

I was thinking a Conjuration Specialist Wizard would be a good build but I am playing a Wizard in Kingmaker right now. The build is quite different but it's still a Wizard. I don't really mind playing the class twice in a row, but something different would be cool too.

Alchemists don't have enough conjuration type spells to bring the Hardlight Projections to the forefront like I would want, and Sorcerers won't do because of the Android's charisma penalty.

A Summoner might work since their summon spells last longer and having a lower Charisma score isn't as bad for them. I've never really played a summoner though so I'm not sure how best to build one.

The last thought I had was Arcanist, but I won't know enough about how to build one until the book comes out later this month.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Build, feats, class suggestion, etc...Thanks in advance!!

You have talent my friend! Nicely done. My friend is going to be DMing this one so I'll point him to this page. We plan on running the campaign in Map Tools so all of this stuff is basically gold.

I need to find some kind of art for my character concept to use as a token. I plan on running a male Android Wizard (Conjurer). All of his summons and spells will basically be Mass Effect style Hard-Light projections. So far my search has been fruitless. There is surprisingly little artwork out there for a "Technomancer" style character.

I'm trying to extract the images from my PDF's and import them for use in MapTools but I honestly have no idea how this software works. I've found an extraction program that seems to be fine with half of my PDF Map files, but errors out on the other half. On top of that MapTools doesn't seem to want to import the files once I do extract them.

I'm banging my head against a wall trying to figure this out and I really have no idea what I am doing.

Does anyone have the maps from this AP already in MapTools format for easy importing? If so and you don't mind sharing I would be VERY grateful.

DC15 sounds good.

I would have it last as long as they are in the same room as the pile, or if it's out in the open within like 60 feet, and have it last for an additional d4+1 rounds after leaving the area. I would also say that any character that passes the save is immune to the effects for 24 hours.

We more or less resolved the argument last night during our Mummy's Mask session. He agreed that the spell Icy Prison should basically work like I said by RAW and I proposed a gentleman's agreement to remove Icy Prison from my spell list if he promises to not use it against players. I picked a new spell to put in its place (Boil Blood, because it amuses me).

Icy prison is pretty powerful for the level due to the helpless condition and the cold damage, and has fewer ways to get out of it than any similar spell of a similar level. We actually figured it would be better balanced as a 7th level spell rather than 5th level.

Prismatic Spray is MUCH more amusing as a DM spell than as a player spell. You can literally see the panic in your players eyes when you tell them their opponent unleashes a cone of colorful light and break our your D8.

Being sent to another plane might not be that bad for an enemy, but for a player it can pose a serious set of challenges, especially if they are not the party Wizard!

At 5th level there are a lot of other nasty spells. For example, Suffocation, Baleful Polymorph, or good ol' Hold Monster will pretty much lead to the death of anyone who fails the Fort saves and Feeblemind will permanently shatter most non-divine casters.

Hold Monster allows a save every round against the original DC. Baleful Polymorph is a Two-Save spell against different saves for partial effect, and Suffocation requires three consecutive failures to be fatal.

Also Hold Monster is Mind Affecting and outright useless against anything that is immune to those effects, Baleful Polymorph is counteracted by literally any other Polymorph effect being activated on the target, and Suffocation is useless against Constructs and Undead.

Icy Prison on the other hand is a death sentence against anything that isn't a Golem or immune to cold, or anything that can bypass a DC 15+Caster Level Strength Check. At 10th level that's a DC25 and a creature would need a Strength of 34 just to have a 50% chance to pass it. Anyone with a strength less than 20 would be incapable of passing the check and would die from the cold damage in short order unless broken out by outside influence. I'd say that's a bit too powerful for the level.

By my DM's interpretation on the other hand, the spell is relatively weak. Anyone trapped by it can cast spells to teleport out or hit it with their weapon to break out. Only Rogues or low strength fighter types with no spellcasting ability fear this.

Feeblemind is just a D**k move.

Ah. Understood. My apologies for leaping to a conclusion.

It's cool, I didn't give you any reason to think otherwise ;-)

Well it's not exactly a ton of protection considering they are taking 9-20 points of damage per round for 9-20 minutes. If they never escape they will take between 810 and 4,000 damage from a 5th level spell. Considering the DC of the strength check is very high, it's a pretty powerful spell. Basically a fight ender against any single target.

Taking the questions in the original post one point at a time:

What does it mean if you are 'treated as having a Dexterity of 0'?
It means that your character does not have a Dexterity of 0, but is treated as if he did until the relevant condition wears off.

Is that any different than actually having enough Dexterity damage to reduce you to 0?
The distinction between it and Dexterity damage is that it is usually immediate and total, not incremental, and it will not automatically go away due to restoration spells or natural ability-score recovery - the relevant condition needs to be dealt with instead.

Do you gain all the negatives of having 0 Dexterity?
Yes, because you're being treated as if you have a Dexterity of 0.

Is a helpless target also immobile, but conscious?
A helpless target is treated as if it has a Dexterity of 0. A character with a Dexterity of 0 cannot move or act. Therefore, a character with the 'helpless' condition cannot move or act.

I can tell you badly want another answer to be true, but I don't think you'll get anywhere.

Actually I don't want a different answer. My GM wants a different answer. I'm arguing from his perspective because it's the easiest way to truly understand his argument and the holes in it. If I'm going to make my case I need to know where the holes are.

Aldarionn wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

someone who is helpless has no ability to move and thus get's -5 for their dexterity mod. this mostly only matters for their AC.

a helpless character can be either conscious or not. usually someone unconscious is considered helpless.

Nowhere in Helpless does it say you are unable to move. It only says you are treated as having a Dexterity of 0.

If being "treated as having a Dexterity of 0" is the same as actually having a Dexterity of 0 then yes, you are unable to move, but if not then someone who is helpless is relatively free to do whatever they want in the absence of other conditions preventing it.

Fortunately, the helpless condition usually coincides with unconscious, paralyzed, dead*, pinned, or another condition that prevents one from acting, so we don't have to worry about the silly idea of helpless creatures taking full-attacks or running.

*Don't get me started on "dead doesn't say you can't take actions!".

The spell Icy Prison gives you the Helpless condition but does not give you any other condition that prevents you from moving, nor does the spell say you are immobile from the ice. Thus we run into the possibility that a Helpless character can actually make attacks, cast spells or use abilities that require actions while trapped in a solid block of ice.

Relevant thread.

someone who is helpless has no ability to move and thus get's -5 for their dexterity mod. this mostly only matters for their AC.

a helpless character can be either conscious or not. usually someone unconscious is considered helpless.

Nowhere in Helpless does it say you are unable to move. It only says you are treated as having a Dexterity of 0.

If being "treated as having a Dexterity of 0" is the same as actually having a Dexterity of 0 then yes, you are unable to move, but if not then someone who is helpless is relatively free to do whatever they want in the absence of other conditions preventing it.

I thought I would start a new thread for this:

What does it mean if you are "Treated as having a Dexterity of 0". For example, the Helpless Condition uses that exact wording. Is that any different than actually having enough Dexterity damage to reduce you to 0? Do you gain all of the negatives of having 0 Dexterity? Basically, is a helpless target also immobile, but conscious?

icy prison wrote:

You trap the target in solid ice 1 inch thick per caster level. If the creature fails its save, it is helpless, but can still breathe (the ice blocks line of effect to the target). If the target makes its save, it gains the entangled condition but can otherwise act normally. Whether or not the target saves, it takes 1 point of cold damage per caster level each round it is helpless or entangled in the ice. The ice has hardness 0 and 3 hit points per inch of thickness; if broken, the creature is freed. A creature can break the ice as a full-round action with a successful Strength check (DC 15 + your caster level).

Helpless: wrote:

A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

Dexterity (Dex) wrote:

Dexterity measures agility, reflexes, and balance. This ability is the most important one for rogues, but it's also useful for characters who wear light or medium armor or no armor at all. This ability is vital for characters seeking to excel with ranged weapons, such as

...

The problem with this is that if a character that is TREATED as having 0 dexterity ACTUALLY has 0 dexterity and is paralyzed, then anything that makes a person helpless is a death sentence. A character could not make attempts to break a grapple against an opponent that is pinning them, because they are helpless and therefore paralyzed. A character could not make escape artist attempts to free themselves from being tied up because they are helpless and therefore paralyzed.

Many conditions make a character helpless, and most of them incapacitate a character and give them specific ways of being able to overcome being incapacitated. Usually these are skill checks or combat maneuvers of some kind. Icy Prison seems to imply this by allowing a strength check to burst the bonds of the ice, but it doesn't explicitly state that the character is incapacitated.

After I trapped a Linnorm in a block of ice during our last session of Kingmaker, my DM decided that since Icy Prison does not state that a character is incapable of making actions, and helpless doesn't either, the Linnorm could simply attack the ice and break free rather than having to contend with a DC 27 strength check to break it.

Personally I think the intent is pretty clear. The target is trapped in ice and unable to take actions except as noted in the spell (strength check), or via feats that allow them to make actions without moving (still/silent spell as someone mentioned). That said, I do feel that interpretation is too powerful. It's one level higher than Hold Monster but it does damage that is basically unavoidable for anyone but high strength creatures, or creatures with Regeneration (see the Linnorm). On the flip side, if you rule that you can just take whatever actions you want, it's basically useless. Hold Monster becomes much better for a lower spell slot.

I don't like it either way. Hold Monster would let you CDG the target while he stands there helpless, but Icy Prison does stupid amounts of damage over the duration of the spell without requiring any action on the casters part.

I would say "ignore" means "keep rolling until a non-8", because otherwise you aren't really being struck by two rays.

This is how I have always played it, but the RAW seems to suggest you throw out any further results of an 8.

Bump

For the TL;DR people - Does Icy Prison do anything to prevent the trapped creature from taking actions such at making attacks or casting spells? Does the ice surround the persons body as a "skin tight" ice block or is it more like a cocoon allowing movement within?

The text of Icy Prison says that "You trap the target in solid ice 1 inch thick per caster level. If the creature fails its save, it is helpless, but can still breathe..."

Helpless describes a number of conditions that make the target Helpless, but beyond that the only thing the condition really does is allow the target to be hit by a Coup De Grace attack, grants a +4 to melee attacks against the target and treats the target as if it has 0 dexterity.

Note that the target doesn't actually have 0 dexterity (thus they don't become paralyzed). It is just treated as if it has 0 dexterity. This means a helpless target, in the absence of other modifiers that prevent it from taking actions, can still do everything a non-helpless target can do. It can attack, cast spells, speak, move, and otherwise function as normal except as specifically noted in the helpless condition, and barring any circumstances of its environment (being tied up, or in this case, being trapped in ice).

My question is, does anything in Icy prison prevent the target from just attacking the ice surrounding it to break itself free? Does anything prevent the target from casting Dimension Door to basically ignore the spell? The target is "Trapped in solid ice 1 inch thick per caster level" but does that mean it is in a skin-tight "ice suit" or is it in a cocoon of ice that allows it to move relatively freely within those confines and do whatever it wants (perform Spell Triggers or make attacks, etc...)?

It seems the intent is for the target to have to make the strength check to break itself free, and for other creatures to be able to attack the ice, but I cannot find anything that prevents it from just making attacks itself or casting spells to get out. Is there any errata anywhere that defines this, or is it just one of those things left up to GM interpretation?

Honestly I don't really like it either way. If it's skin-tight it's nearly impossible for anyone but a very strong character to break out and a failed reflex save means in the absence of cold resistance they will take 1,000+ points of damage before the spell expires. On the other hand if it's a cocoon of ice it's basically negligible except against the weakest of enemies with no spellcasting abilities (Rogues).

Aldarionn wrote:

Ask a Shoanti wrote:

Aldarionn wrote:

Our party is:

Those Guys!

Those guys look like they're going to be a lot of fun! Nice job all around.

Yeah except I get to play the straight man in a party full of lunatics and Disney characters =P

welcome to my world! our party The Alpha Gang was entirely inspired by the cartoon Dinosaur King:) but thats what happens when you game with kids, things get Weird and fast!

Well the person playing Elsa is a 30 year old large hairy man, Ariel is a half dolphin with a flying squid Eidolon that opens locks and disables traps, and we have one of the Street Sharks beating things to death with a giant falcata.

It's utter chaos.

Aldarionn wrote:

Our party is:

Those Guys!

Those guys look like they're going to be a lot of fun! Nice job all around.

Yeah except I get to play the straight man in a party full of lunatics and Disney characters =P

Muser wrote:

should be unadvised or just shot down since they practically bypass climatic boss battles.

That reasoning is a bit futile, since there are already a jillion ways to bypass climactic boss battles.

No, I agree with Muser. This is one of the many reasons I have been disenchanted with some of the Adventure Path material. PC's have a wealth of options at their fingertips unless GM's want to cherry pick abilities for them to have access to or not have access to, and savvy players will almost always choose at least one "save or lose" option.

Grease is one such spell. It's useful against almost every target you can think of except an unarmed specialist. Clerics? Grease Holy Symbols. Melee/ranged Fighters/Paladins/Rangers/basicallyanythingthatusesaweapon? Grease weapons. Arcane Casters? Grease Spell Component Pouches. It matters very little when a carefully built NPC with masterfully designed tactics cannot use those tactics and gets murdered because they have no backup plan. Sorcerers are at a bit of an advantage due to free Eschew Materials but they are one of very few.

Grease is not the only issue with this. It's one of a number as you mentioned, but it's certainly one of the earliest "save or lose" options that a party has access to, and it's the most widely useful against a variety of targets.

Personally as a GM I tend to give NPC's multiple options for threatening a party. Wizards get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat, those reliant on weapons get at least one extra. Maybe not as good as their primary but something they can swing (perhaps a Spiked Gauntlet, or armor spikes), and Clerics get multiple holy symbols or multiple clearly represented symbols on their armor.

As a player I try to avoid the "save or lose" options, at least early on because I don't find it fun to just curb stomp an encounter, and I don't enjoy playing in parties where people take them. I like roleplay as much as the next guy but I also like having a challenging fight to go along with it from time to time.

To the OP: Your GM didn't want to see a potentially challenging and cool encounter get thrown down the tube because the NPC he was given would be unable to use an item vital to his class. It's bad on him for not describing the NPC in question as having a holy symbol embroidered on his tabard or etched on his shield/pauldrons or something, but I don't blame him for wanting a climactic encounter to pose something of a threat rather than being unable to use most of its class abilities due to a single 1st level spell with a DC that was likely well beyond a Cleric with a poor save.

Tangent101 wrote:

"It was only one kitten!"

"That orphanage attacked me! I have witnesses!"

Tell me. Would this person attacking and nearly killing a child be an evil act? Would trying to kill an infant be an act switching someone's alignment from Good to Evil?

Why does Horgus allow the benefit of the doubt? Horgus was not a combatant, he's a noble of the town and a law-abiding citizen, and his city was just attacked. Attacking Horgus and nearly killing him just because he was annoying is not the actions of a Good person. The Evil alignment switch, especially given the demonic influences in the city at the moment, is logical and should be done.

One non-lethal act of anger and passion does not make someone evil. It certainly calls their character into question if they can't take a little complaining from a whiny noble (hence my suggestions for a shift to neutral from good, which is not hard to correct back with attonement and repentance), but it does not warrant instantly having the character fall into the realm of evil.

Horgus is not a child, he's a petulant noble. He's an innocent, but he effectively picked the fight. The PC should have been above it, but Horgus does not go without blame so I think an evil shift is too much.

"It was only one kitten!"

"That orphanage attacked me! I have witnesses!"

Tell me. Would this person attacking and nearly killing a child be an evil act? Would trying to kill an infant be an act switching someone's alignment from Good to Evil?

Why does Horgus allow the benefit of the doubt? Horgus was not a combatant, he's a noble of the town and a law-abiding citizen, and his city was just attacked. Attacking Horgus and nearly killing him just because he was annoying is not the actions of a Good person. The Evil alignment switch, especially given the demonic influences in the city at the moment, is logical and should be done.

One non-lethal act of anger and passion does not make someone evil. It certainly calls their character into question if they can't take a little complaining from a whiny noble (hence my suggestions for a shift from neutral to good, which is not hard to correct back with attonement and repentance), but it does not warrant instantly having the character fall into the realm of evil.

Horgus is not a child, he's a petulant noble. He's an innocent, but he effectively picked the fight. The PC should have been above it, but Horgus does not go without blame so I think an evil shift is too much.

Our party is:

Those Guys!

Adom Hakizimana - Aasimar Paladin of Sarenrae
On a quest from his temple, Adom has been sent to Wati as a beacon of virtue amongst otherwise opportunistic grave-robbers. Hopefully others will look to his example and treat the ruins with respect. For Adoms part, he has always liked Archaeology and relishes the chance to study the ruins of the Half-Dead City. One need only look to the past for lessons of the future, and Adom seeks to learn from where his ancestors have been. If given a chance to clean up those that would defile the burial sites of the dead, then all the better! Now if only he could find like minded companions to adventure with......

Elsa - Human(ish) Elemental Sorceress (Frost - Word Caster)
Jealous of her sisters freedom until now and on sabbatical from her duties as queen in Arendelle, Elsa journeyed to far away Osirion (just bear with me here) to let it go and seek adventure and excitement of her own. Seemingly out of place in this harsh environment she has found herself oddly at a bit of an advantage against creatures more used to heat than cold. That said, the undead she has come across have been....troublesome, for the cold never bothered them anyway. Fortunately she fell in with a Paladin to protect her…..

(OK that was bad, and I feel bad)

A'riel - Dolphinian (Silly under-powered custom race) Summoner
A'riel is (apparently) from Wati, a member of the enigmatic Dolphinian race. I honestly have no idea where this idea came from.....Seriosuly, his Eidolon is named Squidly Diddly.

Jab - Wereshark Fighter (2 handed Fighter)
Jab was a sailor in the Shackles until he was bitten by a wereshark on an away mission to salvage an underwater wreck. After being turned he abruptly decided to move to the driest place he could think of, far away from any accursed water! Some short time later he found himself on the docks at Wati bound for the desert until he was lumped in with a motly crew of would-be adventurers.

Those Guys were all late arrivals in Wati, and lumped together for a lack of anyone else willing to join them more than anything else. Rather than shun the sarcastic moniker the other teams use to refer to them, Those Guys have embraced it and made it their own…..well at least two of them have…..

Yeah I would change him to True Neutral, not Neutral Evil. That's a bit too far, but certainly make Horgus harder to bring around now.

I've had the Heidmarch's comment several times that they do have other groups doing things, and one of the most significant things happening is attempting to thwart the plotting of the cult of Lissala, who appear to be attempting to raise another Runelord. So that gives finding the shards a little urgency. And to further drive home that point, I'm going to have them end up facing off against a hit squad sent to Heidmarch Manor in an attempt to eliminate the Society. I'm expecting a chaotic battle.

I like this idea, and I think I may steal it. I want this campaign to be a bit more laid back for my players, with enough time for them to develop and feel like they can explore their own interests, but adding in an impetus to chase the plot is always a good idea. Especially since one of my players may have similar goals himself. I also like the hit squad idea and I think it would make a cool mid-level encounter.

Thanks for the ideas.

If a caster, even a Paladin, denotes some effort to overcoming SR, then it becomes laughably easy. There are many items that can add to SR checks, and several feats too. Especially if he takes Piercing Spell combined with an Otherworldly Kimono. Fortunately, it's unlikely a Paladin is going to be able to take Spell Perfection, so he won't be able to abuse Spell Pen. Greater Spell Pen. and Mythic Spell Pen for auto-win SR checks.

There are usually better things for a melee character to take than feats or Mythic abilities to enhance spellcasting. Even for a Paladin. I do agree that the Otherworldly Kimono would work rather well but I find that item to be way unbalanced for the price, simply because of the 1/day Maze.

A character can reasonably buy or craft that item well before they can cast 8th level spells and it's basically an auto-win against anything that doesn't have a decent intelligence. Also, it's not a spell so it does not allow SR. Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread....

I don't think that most Paladins will pump their CL to bypass SR with Litany of Righteousness, especially if they are doing a power build. They tend to be too feat intensive to allow for it. And if they Dual Path to specifically take that one ability it seems to be a bit of a waste. Most Paladins want abilities from Champion, not Archmage. I guess they could dual path Trickster, then use Path Dabbling to get Eldritch Breach but I don't know what Trickster abilities a Paladin would want either.

I would be pretty disappointed as a GM if my players playing good characters did this. I would expect at least one of the others to step in to defend Horgus regardless of how upsetting his behavior is.

If nobody stepped in I would be pretty harsh about it. I would have him leave, and have them find his corpse somewhere in the city or the tunnels, either slain by mongrels, Millorn or some sort of cave beast. Horgus is extremely ill-equipped to be traveling on his own so if he strikes off from the party his death is the most likely outcome.

From there it should be pretty obvious that the party is missing out on some valuable resources. If they get the other NPC's up to Helpful they will see the benefits they provide and wonder at what Horgus might have given them had they helped him instead of assaulting him. I also might have Anevia be much harder to influence after this incident. She seems too kind hearted and accepting of others to consider that sort of action acceptable, and I would play her as such for some time.