Firearms and Free Action Reloading


Rules Questions


I have some rules questions regarding Firearms.

For the sake of these questions, let's assume:
I am a Gunslinger
I am a Musket Master, able to reload Muskets as a One-Handed Firearm
I have the Rapid Reload (Muskets) Feat
I am using Alchemical Cartridges

In the above scenario, I can reload my Musket as a Free Action.

Normally, the Firearms rules state that both firing and loading a firearm trigger an attack of opportunity.
The rules also state that Free Actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity (CRB pg 188), and that you can perform one or more free actions as part of another action (CRB pg 181).

Given the above...

Is it safe to assume I can full attack with a firearm given the character traits above, since the reloading of each shot would be a free action taken as part of each attack? Should I expect table variation on this?

If I were to take a feat or other feature that made firearm attacks no longer provoke attacks of opportunity (such as Point Blank Master), would reloading as part of the attack still trigger an attack of opportunity?

If my firearm was exposed to water, thus ruining the loaded cartridge, and then removed from the water, could I simply reload it as a free action to clear the ruined ammunition?


Absolutely not. Those feats and items may reduce loading time to a free action, but they do nothing to alter the fact that those actions would normally provoke and thus they continue to. What you want is the feat Point Blank Master, but as a gunslinger you do not have access to it.

You're also basically trying to give yourself free use of a 11th level ability from the class:

Quote:
Lightning Reload (Ex): At 11th level, as long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can reload a single barrel of a one-handed or two-handed firearm as a swift action once per round. If she has the Rapid Reload feat or is using an alchemical cartridge (or both), she can reload a single barrel of the weapon as a free action each round instead. Furthermore, using this deed does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

So yes, reloading continues to provoke and yes making attacks continues to provoke. Nothing that you have at this time would remove those AoO.

Grand Lodge

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Claxon wrote:
Absolutely not. Those feats and items may reduce loading time to a free action, but they do nothing to alter the fact that those actions would normally provoke and thus they continue to. What you want is the feat Point Blank Master, but as a gunslinger you do not have access to it.

Actually, what he's looking for is the Deft Shootist Deed. It's a Gunslinger specific Point Blank Master (and also covers reloading. Someone with PBM reloading a gun would still provoke, while Deft Shootist removes that too).


Yes you can full attack.

You provoke once for each reload AND once for each shot. Making it so that one opportunity no longer provokes has no bearing on the other one.

RAW has nothing for removing a ruined shots, so you treat it just like you would treat a bow or crossbow with ruined ammunition. You just load and continue to fire.


I was under the impression the OP was asking questions, not trying to give himself anything.

#1 Yes, you can full-attack with a firearm if you are able to reload it as a free action.

#2 I believe the reloading will still provoke.

#3 Not sure on that one.


thorin001 wrote:

Yes you can full attack.

You provoke once for each reload AND once for each shot. Making it so that one opportunity no longer provokes has no bearing on the other one.

RAW has nothing for removing a ruined shots, so you treat it just like you would treat a bow or crossbow with ruined ammunition. You just load and continue to fire.

^ this.


What prevents a Gunslinger from using Point Blank Master?

There is also the Deft Shootist Deed feat, but the feat tax is heavy on that one.

I am not trying to give myself free use of an 11th level class ability.
As outlined in the beginning of my post, it takes a decent investment to reload as a free action.

To further clarify, my questions were:

Can I full attack with a firearm provided that I can reload as a free action?

Do free actions have special exemption from provoking, or is there some intention for free action to have exemption from provoking? Spells, for example, explicitly do not provoke attacks of opportunity when cast using Swift or Immediate actions (CRB pg 188) and as far as I'm aware, there are no other free actions that can provoke.

Does reloading a firearm exposed to water clear the ruined ammunition, or is there some further expenditure of action required?

Edit: This post was written in reply to the first response. Thank you everyone for your replies so far

Grand Lodge

Tykero wrote:

What prevents a Gunslinger from using Point Blank Master?

There is also the Deft Shootist Deed feat, but the feat tax is heavy on that one.

To answer this, PBM has Weapon Specialization as a prerequisite. Weapon Specialization requires Fighter 4 to take, so it's impossible for a single classed Gunslinger to get it.


Jeff Merola wrote:
Tykero wrote:

What prevents a Gunslinger from using Point Blank Master?

There is also the Deft Shootist Deed feat, but the feat tax is heavy on that one.

To answer this, PBM has Weapon Specialization as a prerequisite. Weapon Specialization requires Fighter 4 to take, so it's impossible for a single classed Gunslinger to get it.

Aha, I had thought the prerequisite was Weapon Focus for some reason. Thanks!

Sczarni

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"Some swift and free actions provoke (such as reloading a gun)".


Nefreet wrote:
"Some swift and free actions provoke (such as reloading a gun)".

Exactly what I was looking for regarding that question, thank you!

So, I see people saying that full attacks are possible with a free action reload, and this certainly makes sense with my understanding of the rules, but I'm worried about table variation. Is there any official or semi-official statement available regarding this, similar to the one provided above?

Sczarni

Sort of.

The implication being that, if you can reload as a free action and take an Attack of Opportunity, then you should be able to reload as a free action and take your full attack.

I've never encountered table variation on it before, though.


By the way, there is a feat in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting for Gunslingers that mimics Point Blank Master:

Gunslinger

Granted it's not base book, so definitely check with your GM before using it, but it specifically works as PBM with firearms with prerequisites a Gunslinger can meet.

Of course it does NOT prevent the AOO from reloading, so there is that...

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