I'm trying to gauge how other groups use this spell, specifically from the PCs PoV. I'm playing an Enchanter and I don't want to overstep my bounds.
1. Should he hand me the stats of the creature I've dominated so I can control it in combat?
2. Is the creature more or less mindless while dominated, or does he retain his personality?
3. Will I have to command him not to run away or try to escape if I leave him alone?
4. Over what distance can I exert commands? How complicated can those commands be?
5. Will he get a new save every time I tell him to do something, as anything he does to aid me is sorta going against his nature, as he was trying to kill me a few moments before?
6. Can I order him to fail saves against something like Mind Fog?
7. If I order him to go off somewhere on his own, can I then get a sensory idea of the location to better pinpoint a Teleport spell?
8. How many creatures can you have Dominated at one time?
9. If you have more than one creature dominated, can you give a blanket command to all of them as a single move action?
10. Is dominating a creature an evil act? Can you justify the use of the spell in the name of a greater good? What if you Dominate someone that is trying to kill you? What if they're mindless?
11. Does the dominated creature remember it's time dominated, or is that period a blank?
12. Can you Dominate a creature that you've already dominated while the first Dominate Person spell is still in effect, to reset the duration? What happens if he passes a save against a 2nd Dominate Person? Can you Dominate a creature that someone else already has dominated?
13. Over the duration of the spell, can I attempt to build up a rapport with the creature, showing him that we (the party) don't have hostile intentions to him, so he's less likely to go berserk on us when the spell duration expires? Do dominated creatures ever suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?
I want to post this in the Advice sub-forum, but I guess it makes more sense to post it here. I am looking for feedback on how other PCs have used this spell, so any advice you can give would be appreciated.
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1&2 depends on the DM
3 no
4 I'll have to check
5 only for really serious stuff like killing their family or best friend or lover or violating a palidin's oath
6 yes
7 not very well but to an extent yes
8 as many as you can cast during the duration
9 depends on the dm but I'd say yes, but even if you couldn't talking is a free action, thinking is a non(eg purely mental) action
10 no it isn't evil any more than fireball is evil,'and if they are mindless they are immune anyway,
11 ill have to check
12 yes and moreso you can tell them to fail their save
13 I really want to know this myself, I'd say only if they could remember it and you kept it up for a while.
Unless you do other checks to know the creature's abilities you know nothing of what it can do. You can simply set directives but it still can't really get some judgement in exactly how it carries them out sans of a thorough questionaire. You can order a creature to kill its mother but you can't just spill out cast fireball just because it doesn't carry a sword.
Would the creature willingly give up it's magical items to us? I've already identified that the creature in question is using a +2 composite [+3 Str] shock longbow. Would he trade this possession to the fighter for a more generic longbow? What if it was a heirloom item?
Can you use Bluff checks to convince a creature to do something against it's nature so that it wouldn't be allowed additional saving throws? Like, could you bluff your dominated creature into thinking his brother is scheming against him, or that his wife has been killed and replaced by a doppelganger? Would you get a bonus to your bluff checks?
You can certainly force a creature to give you its equipment, though once the dominate effect is gone, it may come looking to get it back. You could also try a bluff check to convince it something it true, but Dominate won't give you any sort of bonus. If anything, it will make the creature less likely to believe since you are clearly hostile to it. An important thing to keep in mind about dominating a creature is that you get absolute control over its actions, but not over its beliefs. Look into the spell Sow Thought (Changeling racial spell). It can inception people into thinking weird things. That said, you can still force a dominated creature to fight its former allies, it just won't be happy about it.
As for some of your other questions, a creature might retain some base level of its personality while dominated, but anyone taking the time to watch him will clearly be able to tell he is ensorcelled (DC 15 Sense Motive).
If two people have a creature dominated, it will follow out the orders from both of its masters as best it can. In the case of conflicting orders, the casters perform an opposed Charisma check to see who's orders the dominated character follows.
Once the spell is in effect on the target, the range of giving commands is infinite on the same plane of existence. The complexity of commands depends on whether or not you share a language. If you do, you can command him to do anything you can put into words he will understand. If you don't share a language, only basic commands can be relayed, similar to giving commands to a trained animal.
A dominated creature should remember its time dominated as nothing says it won't.
Trying to build trust with a creature you have dominated will be hard. Most people don't like being controlled like that. Also, not every creature will go berserk the moment it breaks. Some will probably just try to get away as fast as they can so they can keep their freedom.
Huh, I never thought about it that way. So a dominated creature doesn't necessarily think highly of me like a charm. But I can force it to auto-fail saves, so I could dominate it, then charm it? Can I then demand that it act normally?
It should be fairly obvious that it won't immediately try to murder me, as that defeats the purpose of the spell, but it doesn't actually say that the creature will be friendly to my friends and allies. If I give the creature a command to fetch a pail of water, and he bumps into an obvious ally of mine, would it attempt to strike out at him or her as long as it can do so without slowing it's quest for water? How specific do you have to be with your commands?
Another example, if I tell my dominated creature to prevent anyone from entering a building, would he try to step in and stop creatures from burning the building down? If I tell him I'm going to take a nap and to make sure no one disturbs me, and some kids start playing loudly in the street, would he murder them so they won't disturb me? Or does the intent of my words weigh more heavily than just the words themselves?
If two people have a creature dominated, it will follow out the orders from both of its masters as best it can. In the case of conflicting orders, the casters perform an opposed Charisma check to see who's orders the dominated character follows.
Is this clearly defined somewhere? My GM is currently ruling that if two people dominate the same person the dominator with the higher caster level wins out and the lower level caster's spell is effectively overwritten.
Would the creature willingly give up it's magical items to us? I've already identified that the creature in question is using a +2 composite [+3 Str] shock longbow. Would he trade this possession to the fighter for a more generic longbow? What if it was a heirloom item?
It would be another saving throw, unless this creature's nature entails giving its things away against its will. For example, if you dominated a hyper-submissive character or creature, they'd probably be pretty messed up by dominate... but they also might enjoy it.
Can you use Bluff checks to convince a creature to do something against it's nature so that it wouldn't be allowed additional saving throws? Like, could you bluff your dominated creature into thinking his brother is scheming against him, or that his wife has been killed and replaced by a doppelganger? Would you get a bonus to your bluff checks?
I'd give the bluff -20, since you're mind controlling them already. Nothing says "I'm trustworthy" like mind control, right?
#1, probably not.
#2, he maintains his personality and can choose to interpret his orders if you allow loopholes. This doesn't allow him freedom of decision, but does allow him a bit of agency-- "Guard this door until someone comes, and then alert me", for example, he will guard the door until someone else arrives and then come to alert you. It can choose to guard however it likes, it can choose to stealth or not, it can choose to greet others at the door. Then it takes off to alert you immediately.
#3, yes. He performs his actions to the exclusion of all other activities. Without an action to perform, you must order him to stand still, remain here, do not leave this room until morning, sleep in this bed, that kind of thing.
#4, any distance.
For #5, it's every time. If he knows you're ordering him to kill good people and he's a paladin, he gets a save each time you order him, and on top of that you can be exceptionally specific and so can he. If you order him to "Attack them until they're dead or defeated" he can just use disarm, position himself unfavorably, not protect you, etcetera.
#6, as a move action, and it's his orders for the round. If he understands your motives for casting mind fog, he's probably going to get another save versus dominate immediately.
#7, kind of. Teleport relies on visual studying, which you do not get from dominate. "I want to teleport to the cold place" is a bad idea, but it relies on your mental image, so you can try to build one from the input you have. How clear is your mental image of a place you can only view through senses other than sight?-- how's your Perception? How much do you trust the dominated creature's mental filter? They might be standing where you're going-- a massive cesspool fill of curdled water and oil, garbage and filth-- and their perceptions might interpret it as smelling good and the corpses make them hungry. You can't hear their thoughts. "The place smells amazing; It's open to the air, filled with the scent of food. The thrall's stomach rumbles. It's very warm here, uncomfortably, due to a crackling fire." What's your mental image? Because if it's not where the thrall is standing, you are going to the place most similar to that mental image.
#8, as many as you want.
#9, no.
#10, you can't dominate a good person. Dominate can be used for the greater good-- an exceptionally wise use of dominate is to cast it on your party members, giving no orders, when you go up against a dominate creature such as a vampire. When the vampire dominates one, you use a move action to charisma check force them to attack the vampire instead. You save per order, so the vampire's order to attack you instead gives them a +2 bonus to save and a new save if he passes his check. You can dispel them afterwards, a show of good faith. But in reality, no, mind control is not a good thing to do.
#11, remembers everything.
#12, it's in the description of the spell, but the creature can't be affected by the same non-instantaneous spell from the same creature twice-- the higher spell would just override, imo.
#13, sure. It depends on the GM. You can order him to accompany you, or to not flee and things like that, giving him orders to help you out, healing him etcetera. It's the same thing as locking him in irons and giving him a sword and forcing him to help-- it's slavery. How gracious a slave is depends on how fast his irons get unlocked, in my opinion. Bargaining will probably ensue. He can speak normally if you give him the order to speak openly.
1: You should probably be telling the GM what you're telling it to do, and then have the GM control it and roll dice for it and keep track of its hit points and so on. But that's a lot of work so the GM may decide to let you do it yourself.
Ice Titan, you take a very harsh interpretation of the spell. I can see where you're coming from, but it's what I'm afraid my DM is going to see as well.
I think I'm going to charm my dominated person so at the very least it'll be helpful as it obeys my every command, and maybe won't slit the throats of the NPCs with us if I forget to tell him not to slit people's throats on this particular night.
Is this clearly defined somewhere? My GM is currently ruling that if two people dominate the same person the dominator with the higher caster level wins out and the lower level caster's spell is effectively overwritten.
If two people have a creature dominated, it will follow out the orders from both of its masters as best it can. In the case of conflicting orders, the casters perform an opposed Charisma check to see who's orders the dominated character follows.
This is defined in the Magic section of the Core Rulebook (bolding mine). Combining Magic Effects
Multiple Mental Control Effects: Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as spells that remove the subject's ability to act. Mental controls that don't remove the recipient's ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.
Ice Titan, you take a very harsh interpretation of the spell. I can see where you're coming from, but it's what I'm afraid my DM is going to see as well.
I think I'm going to charm my dominated person so at the very least it'll be helpful as it obeys my every command, and maybe won't slit the throats of the NPCs with us if I forget to tell him not to slit people's throats on this particular night.
You don't order him not to slit your throat. Then he just stands there, not slitting your throat. You can order him to rest, and he rests to the exclusion of anything but eating, sleeping etc. He can't attack you because you didn't tell him he wasn't told he couldn't not not attack you. You'd have to order him to "slit my throat in the night" for him to slit your throat in the night.
If I tell him to "wait here", and then the room he's waiting in catches on fire, does he just sit and burn if he fails his new Will Save, or would he leave the room and wait immediately outside the danger area until he can return to the area the room used to be?
If the person is in a position of leadership, can I have him relay orders to his men by detailing what I'd like his men to do and ordering him to make sure they do it to the best of his abilities?
You can order him to walk off a cliff, slit his own throat, dance a jig, anything. The only thing that grants a new save are those that are extremely against it's nature. Self-prservation overrides dominate, usually, so anything that obviously and immediately would result in the dominated creature's death grants it a new save, as would forcing a cleric/paladin to blaspheme, a parent to murder its children, etc etc. A dominated person will do whatever you tell it to do and only stop to rest when it's too exhausted to go on, or must eat/drink or stave off starvation/dehydration. It is fully aware of what it is doing and more importantly what you are making it do, and will retain these memories when the spell wears off.
IMC, I run it like googly-eyed robotic control, complete with "yes Master" and "no Master" and "as you command, Master" unless or until commanded to "behave normally" or some such. The creature won't offer information or help, but does precisely what is commanded, nothing more and nothing less. Getting the most out of a Dominated Person is up to the player, so word your commands wisely.
As for your questions:
1) Up to the DM, but I usually allow it.
2) Personality is there, but suppressed unless you dictate otherwise
3) No.
4) Telepathically, up to any range (as far as I remember), as complicated as you think the creature can understand.
5) No. As I said above, the person shouldn't ever be getting new saves unless it's told to do something that is autokill or equivalent.
6) Yes, but if failing the save is autokill (Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, etc) it gets a save.
7) No. You can't see through its eyes or other senses.
8) As many as you can get.
9) No. But you CAN tell all of them to follow one's orders, and order the "leader" with a move action.
10) No, but it can be. The spell does not have the Evil descriptor. It's a tool, just like a sword or bow.
11) It remembers everything, and probably isn't too happy about it.
12) Yes, but it gets a save. If it makes the new save, it's totally free. If you Dominate a creature already under a Dominate effect, it's opposed Charisma check time. Note, a Dominate overrides a Charm.
13) Up to the DM, but in my game, no way, Jose!
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Hey, Dominate Person can be used as a communication system, like a radio. Used correctly, it can be used as 1 day/level telepathy. This works best if used on a willing target. The 'target' and the caster can relay communication for other people.
You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind.
By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can't communicate with you.
You need at least a 9th level caster. The spell lasts 1 day / level,or 1.5 days / level with metamagic extend. So at least 13 days. Three days travel by horse to the destination still allows 10 days of communication.
Start with an informed, willing target. Cast Dominate Person on them. Send the target to far away people with whom you wish to communicate. They might travel the normal way, or perhaps teleport is involved. The caster and target are now in position to relay communication both ways, like a radio.
This would also be a great way to 'ride' a minion, or even an ally. You tell the minion to 'act normally', but you have the option to 'listen in' and also speak up, should you choose to do so. Military uses are obvious.
A PC group could even use the spell this way. For example, if the party scout is (willingly) dominated, it allows said scout to call for backup if compromised while away scouting.
People seem to have more or less hit all the key points on dominate person, but one key one has been missed:
"Obviously harmful or self-destructive orders are not carried out"
So no, you cannot order it to slit its own throat, or to intentionally fail a saving throw against a harmful effect.
Hey, Dominate Person can be used as a communication system, like a radio. Used correctly, it can be used as 1 day/level telepathy. This works best if used on a willing target. The 'target' and the caster can relay communication for other people.
You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind.By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can't communicate with you.You need at least a 9th level caster. The spell lasts 1 day / level,or 1.5 days / level with metamagic extend. So at least 13 days. Three days travel by horse to the destination still allows 10 days of communication.
Start with an informed, willing target. Cast Dominate Person on them. Send the target to far away people with whom you wish to communicate. They might travel the normal way, or perhaps teleport is involved. The caster and target are now in position to relay communication both ways, like a radio.
This would also be a great way to 'ride' a minion, or even an ally. You tell the minion to 'act normally', but you have the option to 'listen in' and also speak up, should you choose to do so. Military uses are obvious.
A PC group could even use the spell this way. For example, if the party scout is (willingly) dominated, it allows said scout to call for backup if compromised while away scouting.
Eep. I've never played a character who would willingly subject himself or herself to such a spell, no matter who cast it nor for what purpose.
...Though I could think of a few NPCs that would. 0_o